Advice for a music only sub

Posted by: Cork

Advice for a music only sub - 12/02/10 10:40 AM

I'd like ot get a sub for my son to go with his M3s. It'll be used for music only. And the killer constraint is that I'd like to get it for ~$300, $350 tops. The HSU VTF-1 looked like a good candidate, except for the price. Anyone have any advice (including don't bother)?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/02/10 11:25 AM

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=892
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/02/10 11:38 AM

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

I think that the Hsu STF-series subs are comparable in performance to the VTF series but without the adjustability.
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/02/10 02:36 PM

Thanks for the quick info to all. I should have added that I know almost nothing about subs. My reading of the Hsu STF vs VTF is that it's the variability that maked the VTF well suited for music use. (But I certainly may have mis-interpretd that.)

The edesign seems decent. As does the Lava that was recommednded on the Home Theater Forum. I'll have to do some Googling on these tonight. Thanks again.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/02/10 10:25 PM

Cork, there isn't any apparent "music" reason not to go with the STF-2(on sale at $319)if you were attracted to the VTF-1 except for the budgetary factor. The response is nearly identical, except that the VTF-1 option trades less extension for the ability to play a little louder higher up, which is said to be a benefit in some movie situations. The greater extension(only STF-2 setting)is said to be optimum for music.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 08:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Cork
Thanks for the quick info to all. I should have added that I know almost nothing about subs. My reading of the Hsu STF vs VTF is that it's the variability that maked the VTF well suited for music use. (But I certainly may have mis-interpretd that.)

The edesign seems decent. As does the Lava that was recommednded on the Home Theater Forum. I'll have to do some Googling on these tonight. Thanks again.


I have been going through the Lava threads lately and there isn't much information in terms of actual "real" reviews yet. They do indeed have an inticing low price-point on their subs. The great thing here is you can do multiple subwoofers on a budget. FWIW if you do decide to go with one of their subs, if you are an AVS forum member notify them and you will get 15% off your order and it will help you save a little extra cash.
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 12:51 PM

>> ... isn't much information in terms of actual "real" reviews ... you are an AVS forum member notify them and you will get 15% off your order ...

Thanks DrH. I'm a lurk-only AVS member, but I am a member and didn't see that on their site. Although when I poked around I also saw that user reviews of the Lavas were hard to come by. This might be good for me to experiment with (I've been upgrading my music system, Axioms on the mains for music; mini-Advents on the surrounds for the occassional movie); I also got an interesting reco for a Dayton kit on the HTF site; so probably one of theose for me next year.

>> there isn't any apparent "music" reason not to go with the STF-2

Thanks John. Since there's no drawback with using it for music I think I'm going to take the safe route and go that way. The price it right and I've seen too many positive recos for Hsu to play around with this.

I'll add that I went cheap last year and got my son a lower end Polk. That was a huge mistake, it was really bad. I returned it and got him something else, so I don't want to be returning another sub.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 01:02 PM

You will not see it on their website. They have a long thread on AVS about the discount with company reps taking part. They seem like straight forward folks and have delivered A LOT of subs based on that thread and even sent off a sub to be reviewed. I was skeptical at first and still am (because it is mostly hype) if they are as good as some of the other quality budget subs that are mentioned in this thread. You can't argue that you will get more quantity (dual subs for $399 plus AVS discount) with the lava, the big question is are they going to be one note subs? They look to have decent build quality at their asking price.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 01:59 PM

I'd check Amazon.com. I see they have the Polk Audio PSW505 12-Inch Powered Subwoofer (Single, Black) for $230! They have BIC 12"s for between $200-250, Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 - Subwoofer - 200 Watt - black for $200, a Velodyne Impact-10 10-Inch Powered Subwoofer (Black) for $270.

I think any of these would match up well with a pair of M3s. Personally, I'd go with the Velodyne of this bunch. Hsu are great subs.



Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 02:07 PM

Is the Velodyne Impact a new model by them or did they just release a new version?
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 02:09 PM

Dunno, but they discontinued the CHT-10 which was a great budget sub, quick and good for music. So, I figured, even though I've never heard the V Impact 10, I'd go with it anyway.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 02:11 PM

It does look to be a good choice for budget minded folks.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 02:40 PM

It's funny, Dr. H, and maybe not surprising, that I have many subs: SVS 20-39+, Klipsch LF10, Velodyne CHT10, Dayton Titanic 12, Dahlquist PDQ1500, Kenwood SW300 with Dayton Titanic 10" driver. Which do you think is the best for music?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 03:20 PM

Do you have just one of anything?


Actually, please don't answer that question. whistle
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 03:25 PM

Uh, yes.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 03:29 PM

An eclectic array of subs you got there. Never heard of a few models (Klipsch, Dalquist). Was the Dayton Titanic 10" a kit?
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 05:02 PM

Yezzuh, it was a kit, it is now, a subwoofer.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 05:18 PM

Ah, Dr. H,

A. Colin Flood, did a review in 2002 for Enjoy the Music.com of the wonderful Axiom M3ti (he loved them) which he paired with the far more expensive Klipsch LF10 subwoofer. So, I bought one of them for the same reason I bought my first M3, I was impressed by the review.

Now, I hope the review was, in fact, a review, rather than an ADVERTORIAL, which seems to be the tawdry truth behind so many of the convincing professional testimonials which move me to buy and are far more effective than any ad could ever be.

Anyway, back to the digression, the Klipsch is a wonderful though quirky piece of work with one driver and 2 passive radiators. It's almost impossible to pick up. Sounds good though.
Posted by: MarkyM

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 07:43 PM

I picked up a BIC V-1020 10" budget sub from Amazon for use with my M2's (used as nearfields on my recording rig) and while it doesn't go very deep it is surprisingly decent sounding, especially for the price.
--Mark--
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 08:00 PM

BIC's budget subs get great reviews by virtually anyone that has heard them.
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/03/10 09:12 PM

I owned a BIC V1220 for a couple of years which preceeded my Outlaw. It surpassed my performance expectations quite well and surprisingly did a great job with DVD's. So yes, a great budget sub. Just recently I recommended the folling BIC to a friend who's building a HT on a $800 budget. Axiom's M2V3's will be his mains.

http://www.provantage.com/bic-america-f12~7BICA003.htm
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/05/10 03:06 AM

OK, so best for music prize -

The contestants?

Klipsch LF10, SVS 20-39, Velodyne CHT10, Dahlquist PDQ1500, Kenwood SW300 with Dayton Titanic 10" driver, Dayton Titanic 12" ...

and the winner is ...

The Dahlquist PDQ 1500 (additional damping added).

Believe me, the outcome is not price dependant ... not even close.


Posted by: Adrian

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/05/10 09:45 AM

Anyone heard any of Energy or Mirage's $300-400 subs? they seem to get very good user reviews.
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/06/10 10:47 AM

I decided to go with a Velodyne: http://www.amazon.com/Velodyne-Impact-10...7672&sr=8-1

I really wanted to get the Hsu STF-2, but with the shipping I just couldn't justify the extra $60. If anyone thinks I make a huge mistake, please, let me know.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/06/10 12:39 PM

I never heard neither but for $60 I would have gone with the HSU based on their reputation for making very good subs. Just my opinion.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/06/10 12:50 PM

You didn't make a mistake as long as you like what you purchased. smile
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/06/10 03:49 PM


Looking at the specs the extra $60 for the Hsu would have been worth the price imo.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/06/10 10:22 PM

Cork, my view would be similar to what Rick mentioned: the extra extension of the Hsu(25Hz +/- 2dB, vs 32Hz +/- 3db)is significant and would seem to easily justify the extra $60.
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/07/10 08:05 AM

Hmmm. Well they shipped it pretty quickly, so I can't go back. I hand wrung for a while on this, but decided that my son would hear the difference between bad and decent; but wouldn't hear the difference between decent and good. In the end, since we're trying to stay on a budget for Christmas this year, I decided that an extra present would be worth dropping down a notch. Maybe not. Thanks for the help everyone.
Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/08/10 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Cork, there isn't any apparent "music" reason not to go with the STF-2(on sale at $319)if you were attracted to the VTF-1 except for the budgetary factor. The response is nearly identical, except that the VTF-1 option trades less extension for the ability to play a little louder higher up, which is said to be a benefit in some movie situations. The greater extension(only STF-2 setting)is said to be optimum for music.


Completely agree with JohnK. (as usual)

Having owned one and heard numerous others...I can tell you Hsu makes a damn fine product. The most "musical" subs I've ever heard.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/08/10 09:32 PM

Craig, good to hear from you again(especially since you agree with me!). Thought maybe we'd lost you.
Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/09/10 02:59 PM

nah...I'm still around. smile You can't get rid of me that easily.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/09/10 03:34 PM

John, it's easy to disagree with you, but difficult to be right smile .
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 09:28 AM

So my wife and I went on our annual joint Christmas shopping excursion. (Do some shopping, have a drink with lunch, shop some more, have a few drinks at dinner, do a whole bunch more shopping until closing.) In passing I mentioned the price/performance tradeoff and my decision on the Velodyne over the Hsu. She replied, "Well that seems dumb." And this is from someone who still doesn't see what all the high-def hubbub is all about.

So I ordered the Hsu and will send back the Velodyne.

(Okay, a post with no particular point, but I was so pleasantly shocked that I had to share.)
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 09:39 AM


Nice! I think you'll be quite pleased with the Hsu. Make sure to report back.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 10:12 AM

Seems like a wise decision. Do you have a trial period on the Velodyne? What would be nice is for you to keep the Velodyne until you get the HSU and compare both. Then you can really know if it is worth the extra $$$.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 11:38 AM

I would do as Bruno suggests, but then again I can never turn down a chance to do some A/B testing.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 12:23 PM

That's good to know, Jason. wink
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 04:55 PM

I have to get Joyce to drink more.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/15/10 08:16 PM

A drinking wife can backfire. I mean getting your wife to drink can backfire. blush
Posted by: Cork

Re: Advice for a music only sub - 12/29/10 07:39 AM

A partial update. My son definitely likes the Hsu. (And to recap, we both thought the Polk we tried and returned last year did not produce decent sound.)

But my wife surprised me with a VP100 for Christmas. Definitely overkill for my 13x14 room I listen to music in. But that's okay, overkill is good! So I've been playing with that instead of doing the Hsu/Velodyne comparison. (And another aside, my wife, a non-techie, said she really liked dealing with Axiom; said they were extremely friendly and helpful.)

But I think I'm going to keep the Velodyne and use it in the dining room (we have a small 'executive' system to play music while we cook and dine; it has a sub connection, so what the heck); so at some point I will do the sub comparison.