Advice on QS8 Placement

Posted by: tjayl

Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/10/11 11:14 AM

Hi all,

I've got a question for owners of the QS8 to see if I'm going to get appreciably better results with one method of mounting over another.

We recently moved to a new house, and unfortunately the new place does not have a dedicated space for the theatre. The basement is fairly large and L shaped, so I'm using one part of the L as the home theatre corner.

I've got a two HT chairs with the projector on a stand behind the chairs. I'm currently using two towers from my old speaker set as surrounds. Moving to the QS8 would allow me to add more chairs by freeing up floor space.

Just behind the back of the chairs is a soffit for HVAC ducting. My mounting options would be as follows.
1. T bracket on the soffit (again this is located maybe a foot behind the chairs) with the QS8 directly facing the screen wall
2. FMB on the soffit with the QS8 angled towards the seating area as much as possible (it wouldn't be aimed directly at the chairs).
3. One QS8 on the sidewall directly facing the chairs, the other on a FM Ceiling Bracket directly facing the chairs.

So will I gain a lot using one of these mounting methods over another? Number 1 is obviously the cheapest and most asthetically pleasing, but if one of the other methods is going to be a huge advantage sound wise, it might be worth it.

Thanks!
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/10/11 11:40 AM

On the soffit behind the seating should be fine. The QS speakers are very forgiving to placement.

Because the faces on which the tweeters are mounted are angled, it may be possible to place the QSes far enough apart to have the inside ones firing toward the seating. A double bonus would be if the outside tweeters would hit the left and right walls at such an angle that the sound would reflect into the seating area too.

Just make sure you can mount them low enough to have at least a few inches for the top woofer to bounce off the ceiling.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/10/11 12:23 PM

I would go with the T bracket install both facing the screen, you already have the brackets so trying it this way is easiest. If you find this set up not to your likeing you could then move on to the others and try them out. I am quite certain the T bracket install behind the chairs will be more than adequate and result in great surround envelopment.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/10/11 01:16 PM

I have them on the T-bracket on my back wall. My couch is also against the wall so they only are slightly behind me. I think the QS8s are doing an excellent job even in this less that optimal placement. Mind you I never tried them on the side (ideal position).
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/10/11 10:33 PM

TJ, welcome. Mounting position 1. should be fine; there's no need for the QSs to be aimed toward the listener. Keep in mind that the 5.1 surrounds are still side surrounds, even if they're mounted a little behind the listening position, so they should be separated as widely as possible, almost to the side wall or where the side wall would be except for the L.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/11/11 09:06 AM

Thanks for the input everyone.

I should have lots of room above the speaker for the top firing driving.

I walked into the basement last night, and I realized I forgot one detail. Where the left surround would be mounted on the soffit, there's an extra section of lowered ceiling which houses a pot light. I think for that side I'll have to go with a FM Ceiling B otherwise that speaker would need to be moved in about 2 feet. That side would end up being a bit lower because of this.

I'll post some pictures when I get a chance.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/14/11 06:23 PM

Woo hoo! QS8 showed up today. And one FM Ceiling bracket. Plant is to use the t mount for one and the FMCB for the other. They will be about 6" different in height but that's the best I can do. Can't wait to get them hung and running!
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 01:31 PM

The QS8 are up. They sound good but I am hugely disapointed. The fit and finish on them is terrible. I certainly didn't expect speakers in this price range to look this bad.

I'm curious, if someone auditions them in their home and sends them back, do they go out to someone else as new speakers? Maybe I was sent B stock by mistake.

The vinyl on the first one is bubbling on the front and it one small spot on the bottom. In addition, something is loose inside it. While hanging it you could hear it rattling around inside.





The other one has some bubbling, but less, however the front of it looks like it was wiped with a rag that had adhesive or something else on it. It really shows up in sunlight. Lesser so at night with the lights on.





I want to love these, but this is disapointing. I'll be contacting Axiom on Monday to see what they say. I'm used to the fit/finish of my B&W CDM NTs and the Monitor Audio RS6 I have for 2 channel. They both look like furniture.

Here's some shots of my theatre area, just for fun.
Tyler






Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 01:47 PM

Axiom does not recycle returns from other people, they are all new speakers. To be honest, it is uncommon that people are unhappy with the finish, most say just the opposite. Normally, the B-Stock, Factory Outlet, QA seconds, have very very minor blemishes/nicks that most people can't even find. I have had 3 seperate systems over the years, all from the Factory Outlet, and have yet to even find a problem upon close examination.

If I were you I would call Axiom, and furnish the pictures of the bubbling on the one Q, that is the first I've seen that.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 02:18 PM

That's definitely not normal Axiom quality. Call them.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 03:54 PM

A finish like that is just unacceptable. I ordered B-stock (from the old Factory Outlet) ~2 years ago. Although unlike Randy's experience (SirQuack) I did have a few minor blemishes, but that's ok as I was expecting that ordering B-stock. I am sure Axiom will make it right, but that is just unacceptable QC on final product to let it go out the door like that. I hate to see new customers have a bad experience when we all tend to recommend Axiom so highly. That being said, once you do get this sorted I believe from my personal experience you will love the QS8's for your surrounds.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Posted by: RickF

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 06:26 PM

Whoa, that's bad.

I agree with the other folks tjayl and I'm quite sure Axiom will make it right, that is far from typical Axiom QC.

Good luck and that's a very nice room you have there.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 08:30 PM

Thanks everyone. I had hoped that this quality can't be the norm, and figure (hope) that Axiom will make it right. It's just a bit frustrating.

I sent the pictures to Axiom and asked them to advise. I'll report back when it's sorted out.

Tyler
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/16/11 11:10 PM

Tyler, yes that's unacceptable QC, which I'm sure that Axiom will make right for you. All speakers are brand new, but there are occasional lapses, which rather disturbingly seem to have gotten more frequent recently.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/17/11 02:39 AM

If you don't hear from them in the morning I would CALL them. It seems we wait and wait for that email and it never comes, yet a quick call and you have an answer fairly quickly.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/17/11 10:45 AM

Originally Posted By: RickF
that is far from typical Axiom QC.

That might have been the case a while back but we see more and more complain of their QC (I had my share!). I agree with the other that Axiom will make it right but like I said in my other thread, Axiom makes great sounding products but they really need to tighten their QC.
Posted by: alan

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/17/11 11:32 AM

Hi tjayl,

Yikes, I don't know how that bubbled finish sneaked through quality control! Such a gross blemish would never be sent out even as B-stock. Apologies from Axiom.

Call the toll-free number and speak to JC or Brent and we'll get replacements off to you.

Regards,

Alan
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/17/11 03:41 PM

Talked to JC this afternoon. A pair of new QS8 will be shipped out and prepaid labels sent for shipping mine back. I'm looking forward to seeing the new set.

Kudos to Axiom for the quick response.

Tyler
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/17/11 07:13 PM

I ordered B stock in 2007 when the factory outlet was still around and none of my speakers were anywhere near that bad. In fact, The only real blemish I found was on the ep500 I ordered.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/21/11 10:03 PM

Ok, I need a reality check everyone. I was excited all day because I knew my replacement QS8s were sitting at Purolator.
Went after work, picked them up, opened the boxes when I got home, and again disapointment.

So, my question is, am I expecting too much. Is this normal or are these speakers just not going to meet my standards for finish?

One speaker is almost perfect. There's a tiny bit of corner where it looks like it's lifting or wasn't lined up correctly. I can live with this. It's not what I expected, but it's very minor. I've had other speakers worth far less than these that have had no issues with the vinyl lining up.




The second speaker has an obvious flaw. How is this not B stock? Is no one looking at these before they go out? And again, bubbling in the same spot. I know it's possible to make them without the bubbling. I've got one that doesn't have it.





I'm wishing I hadn't put up the t bracket or drilled a 1/2" hole in my ceiling for the FMCB. Both sets of QS8s would be packed up and sent back as I've got no confidence in them supplying two speakers that are finished well. I'm 1 for 4 so far.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/21/11 11:18 PM

This is very disappointing, we keep hearing more and more about these issues. I am almost thinking that with out the FO around they are not watching as closely as before.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 01:20 AM

Sorry for your trouble. Like I said many times, good sound is the most important but at this price, the customer also wants good finish and good service. The QC really needs to smarten up cause we are seeing more and more of these and in the long term, it's enough for a company to loose the confidence of their customers IMO. This is your second set, it should have been carefully inspected.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 08:13 AM

I hope that JC, Brent or Alan continue to read this thread and make sure Ian is aware of this. You're right, this is a good way to lose customer confidence. I am close to ordering M60's or 80's for living room now that we have rearranged it and was just going to order A-stock with a nice finish. I have to say for the first time I am starting to have an uneasy feeling about what might happen. I know I would not accept that kind of finish on an A stock item, so you're not alone.

I know it's a royal pain at this point, but I'd call Axiom again and make sure that when they send you a 3rd set of QS8's (assuming you go that route) they are personally inspected by someone familiar with your plight.

I don't know what else to say...
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 08:17 AM

Seems if everyone returned their speakers for the 3rd time, that they'd eventually get the message.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 08:40 AM

Hey, does that customer council still exist? Haven't heard anything on it lately. If so can we ask you guys involved to raise these final QC issues as a serious concern among the 'Axiomites'?
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 10:09 AM

What are people's thoughts on the first one, with the slight mismatch. I'm worried I'm being overly picky, as it's not that bad. I could probably live with it, it's just not perfect.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 10:37 AM

I would still consider the first speaker B-Stock - a good quality B-Stock. The problem with that corner is that it increases the probabilty of the vinyl to peel over time in that area and perhaps get worse than it is now.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 10:56 AM

We haven't had a meeting for over a year, so I'd say that the customer council no longer exists.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 11:03 AM

Just to clarify something a little here re. "seams"....the speakers cabinets have two different types of seams. Remember that the mdf comes with the vinyl already attached to it, the flat panel is then v-cut almost* through the mdf to the vinyl side per spec, then the whole cut out is 'folded' and glued into a cabinet. So basically you'll end up with a seamless join where the mdf is folded over and then a non seamless join where the next panel joins it. The first two pictures wouldn't concern me, the next two perhaps a little, the last one to me is a bit more of a concern. This is where the mdf was foled over and should be seamless, but it looks like the mdf wasn't quite folded cleanly in that last pick. It's not really a bubble in the vinyl per say although it looks like it. Anyway, I hope you get this resolved...they are excellent sounding surround speakers.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Just to clarify something a little here re. "seams"....the speakers cabinets have two different types of seams. Remember that the mdf comes with the vinyl already attached to it, the flat panel is then v-cut almost* through the mdf to the vinyl side per spec, then the whole cut out is 'folded' and glued into a cabinet. So basically you'll end up with a seamless join where the mdf is folded over and then a non seamless join where the next panel joins it. The first two pictures wouldn't concern me, the next two perhaps a little, the last one to me is a bit more of a concern. This is where the mdf was foled over and should be seamless, but it looks like the mdf wasn't quite folded cleanly in that last pick. It's not really a bubble in the vinyl per say although it looks like it. Anyway, I hope you get this resolved...they are excellent sounding surround speakers.


I guess my concerns are that I'm shelling out money for something with flaws. I expect a product to look perfect unless I'm knowingly buying b stock.

I've pretty much decided I will keep the one with the slight mismatch. While there is a risk of the veneer peeling, I'm hoping it wont happen as its going to be hanging on the wall untouched.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/22/11 04:18 PM

i would enquire about receiving a 10% discount for it which is what the Factory Outlet speakers would have cost.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 12:26 AM

Ken, I think our last meeting was Spring 2010. I remember bringing up the anniversary party during one of our last phone calls. In any case, perhaps we should draft an 'email of concern' cosigned by the council members. Since we've not been officially dissolved, maybe should make ourselves useful. wink
Posted by: cb919

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 07:45 AM

I think it's a good idea Peter. Besides, isn't that exactly why Axiom formed the council in the 1st place - so that they could have a better view to what is in the mind of the customer?

Cheers,
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 01:10 PM

I think the problem was that we liked everything that the greater community didn't--the v3 look, the auctions, some other stuff that got roundly assaulted...
Posted by: grunt

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile

I think the problem was that we liked everything that the greater community didn't . . . .


That was the inherent flaw in using longstanding customers for essentially market research, which to be useful needs to target the larger market as a whole not those who have already bought in. From a marketing research perspective it was likely not only useless but probably misleading.

If you look at what appears to be the single biggest success for Axiom recently, the VP180, it was a member who sought a new solution for a long existing problem, not having a center speaker that lived up to the standard of Axioms tower speakers. If Axiom or the members of the council had been listening to the complaints from some customers, not all Axiom haters either, and a few reviewers they would have developed a center to better match their towers years ago.

In general new ideas come from those who are either not satisfied which existing options, are outsiders, or tend not to succumb to the norming effects of groupthink. Picking long standing members almost ensured a lack of diversity of ideas and opinions. I learned long ago from the Marine Corps that when in charge it’s beneficial to surround oneself with people of differing opinions, backgrounds, and most importantly the moral courage to “tell the emperor he has no cloths.”
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 02:13 PM

In our defense, I'd say that the VP180 was something we were all behind... And it was hardly a mutual admiration society.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 02:24 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
In our defense, I'd say that the VP180 was something we were all behind... And it was hardly a mutual admiration society.


You may have been behind the VP180 but it wasn’t the idea of anyone on the council. Nor did I say that the council was a “mutual admiration” society only that it’s composition virtually ensured it would be weak in the areas of strongly dissenting opinions or novel ideas from a newcomer’s (read new customer’s) perspective.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 08:51 PM

Each of my m80's has a small spot similar to that on the back corner. Of course, I did order from the factory outlet and otherwise they are flawless so I can't complain. If I would have ordered A stock I'm not sure if it would bother me or not as you can't even see it unless you stick your head behead the speaker. (but that's just me)

If I paid for a premium finish on a wood veneer speaker if something was out of wack I would be disappointed.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 08:51 PM

Picture of m factory outlet m80:


Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/23/11 11:44 PM

I nominate grunt for the next customer council so he can set everyone straight.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/24/11 12:05 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I nominate grunt for the next customer council so he can set everyone straight.


I’d be a poor choice. My report card always said I didn’t play well with others. wink
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/24/11 12:43 AM

Funny, I was thinking the same thing as Peter...
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/24/11 06:49 AM

You think they would look at yours extra carefully since they are sending you replacements. I'd give them a call after looking at your second picture.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/25/11 02:25 PM

Just an update. I e-mailed the second set of pictures first thing yesterday morning. Followed up with a call to JC (who I had spoke to prior to getting the first replacement set). He was not working Monday, so I mentioned who I was and what happened and said I had sent him an e-mail regarding the problem with the second replacement set. I said I would wait to hear from him today as he was aware of the original problem.

No response as of 2:20 Tuesday. My patience is starting to wear a little thin. At least I have working speakers, but I'd like this done with. I guess I have to do the calling if I want it resolved. Either that or give up and ship them all back.
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/25/11 06:32 PM

Update again. Left a message for JC. He returned my call promptly. A replacement will be checked and then sent to me. I'm keeping the one with the slight corner mismatch.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/25/11 06:39 PM

Good news at long last - especially that they will be checked before being sent. Soon you'll be able to just sit back and enjoy them. I hope aurally they make up for the visual pains they have put you through!!!

BTW, watched Narnia - Prince Caspian on the weekend and was very happy with my QS8's yet again. cool
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/28/11 10:44 PM

Replacement came today and it looks good. No time to hook it up till after the weekend but I'm happy with the finish.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 01/29/11 01:21 PM

Great news!
Posted by: tjayl

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 02/01/11 08:41 AM

Just to close this out with a positive, I got the final replacement QS8 mounted and running last night and it sounds great. I'm happy to have a working and cosmetically flaw free pair of QS8. I just have to find time to chase the family out of the house so I can calibrate them without a lot of background noise smile
The QS8s replaced some old floorstanders I used as surrounds which opened up floorspace so we ordered two more home theater chairs (we only needed 2, but with a family now it was time to add more). Now it's time to start saving for a replacement sub and then my upgrades should be done (or else I can start the upgrade cycle again!:)
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Advice on QS8 Placement - 02/01/11 09:21 AM

I'm glad everything turned out alright in the end! Enjoy your speakers!