Now this is no reflection On Axiom or anything else..just what i went thru.
I got the QSC..pluged it in, fired it up. In a few mins, one set of tweeters stoped working. Shut it down, pulled the tweeters on that speaker......NOW BOTH speakers had there Blue wire disconected. I pluged them back in...the wires basically feel off. I had to crimp them to stay on.
Ok...fired it back up....ran it for 30 min..then i saw the QSC clip on the left channel. Shut it down. The other speaker..the tweeters,were dead. Again, i pulled the tweeters...this time the top one was disconnected, the bottom was still there. Again the blue connection was off. I crimped both connections.
I told Axiom about the problem, but in any case..very strange.
I have never seen any thing like this, on any speakers before.
Bottom line is just really bad connections. They just feel off.
that is an interesting venture.
Now let me say..once i fixed them the speakers work fine. In fact great. The bass is a tad lacking...it's there, and more correct if you will, but just not..heavy. Not in your gut, maybe.
It's just hard pressed to be below a certain DB.... but not like it's not there. The mid's and treble are right on, and you do have a massive soundstage. They are not bright speakers..not sure why any body would say that.
Just for my taste, I feel like it needs a sub...nothing massive...just need a little more bottom end. So just a small sub..just too add to the bottom.
That's a dose of bad luck is what that is.
Fire up the onkyo now that you know there was a problem with the speakers. See if it will still shut down on you.
Yeah, my first thought was the less-than-perfect connections just might have been the problem with the previous amp shutting down...
yup, but I didn't want to bring that up again.
My m60's and m80's have killer bass, how do you have your receiver or pre setup? In fact, in some auditions people asked me if I still had my subs on. Probably your room.
I would Blue...but i was pushing way more then the Onkyo could put out with out cliping...If it could do it it at all.
The M80's will get isanely loud....but there is just that little bottom end thats missing....or the gut feel sort of speak.
It's there, but it's not...you hear it but don't feel it, type thing....It just needs at little boost.
Ah. I thought the reason you got the QSC was because the Onkyo was shutting down. There is also a good possibility the problem was the speakers and not the amp that was the issue. Even more so now than what myself and others have speculated prior. At least everything is working now.
This venture has been a really strange one.
No, Blue, you could be right. But when the speaker connections fell off..I have no clue since, they worked for a while, at least on 1 speaker, then fell off after 30 min of playing them on another. I have no clue.
I can't say if the Onkyo was BAD.(at least with 4 ohms)or not. But the speakers once fixed..take way more power then the Onkyo could put out.
The QSC did not shut down...the Onkyo did...can't say thats good or bad...but. Thats what happened.
On the QSC you said the clipping light came on. Has that came on since you fixed the connections? The fact the Onkyo shut down is probably a good thing considering you were dealing with faulty connections.
No, since i"fixed them" the clip light has not come on, But it did not come one when i first pluged them in either. So i can't say if the tweeters were working when I had the Onkyo on there, or not.
The QSC dose not seem to care.. it ran with the tweeters..unhooked basically...did nothing like shut down. Just showed a clip and not all the time.
Whatever the case may be...the speakers work, the QSC works....
Just missing some bass, but that depends on who is listening to it and what they want. Basically you can not get major bass out of a 6" speaker. You have to do something...so a small sub is probably the answer.
Yep, like everyone thought and what most recommended to check prior to buying the QSC. My guess is if you plug back the Onkyo and drive it to its max capability without clipping, it won't shut down and it probably dose LIKE the M80s. Now, if you want the power given by the QSC, it's different story but not your original one. In Any cases, I'm glad everything worked out OK and you're enjoying your system (at least until you'll become depth
)
Bass response has more to do with the size of the drivers, the cabinet size of the m80's has a huge affect, room size, placement, etc. more than drivers.
The clipping light was telling you something.
so a small sub is probably the answer.
From the number of times that you wrote the word "bass" throughout all your posts and the SPL levels you listen to, I'm not sure a small sub will cut it. If sticking with Axiom, I think a EP500 should be the minimum that you look at.
Putting them closer to boundaries will help re-enforce the bass response.
To be honest..I don't need a massive sub, to give explose stuff.
The M80's do put out decent bass, just a tad lacking, It's just that little space that i want to fill. This is strait music..not HT stuff.
If i had to compare it...kind of like a Martin Logan thing...yes they work fine...but a sub helps them out...gives you that Bottom.
The M80s are only down 3 dB at 34 Hz. It takes a pretty large sub to get substantial output below that. But if you're looking for the kick that you feel in your chest cavity, that's several octaves up from there. The M80s handle that range very well. But it's easy for their position in the room, and your location too, will hide much of that bass energy.
Honestly, you don't seem to listen to people's advice, so you'll probably go and do your own thing. But you really should try moving the speakers around the room to see if you find that bass you're wanting, before investing any more money.
But you really should try moving the speakers around the room to see if you find that bass you're wanting, before investing any more money.
Why? That's where the Polks were and they worked fine!
Honestly, it could be also that the Polks might not have a flat frequency response somewhere in the 50 to 80Hz range and might have accentuated the bass effect and the M80s are flat and you're not used to it. I get more of the "punch" or "feel" when it's handled by the M80s (crossed at 40Hz) than when it's handled by the EP600 (crossed at 80Hz). If you don't like the way it sounds, first play with placement as Chris suggested, then if you have some kind of EQ, try increasing the level on the 40/80Hz range, then give a sub a try.
No i'm fine with trying stuff out. The speakers are now sitting about 7" off the back wall, and 1' off the side wall. Should i move them out to get more bass, or closer to the wall.
I do listen to peoples advise, but you see, when the speakers, basicaly fall APART, after 30 min's of playing them. That tends to be a problem. Unless you missed one of the last posts. The connectors FEEL OFF, after 30 min's of playing them.
I tested pretty much every thing..the speakers worked, for the few min's the Onkyo was on there. But somehow the dam speaker wires..FALLING off ...AFTER they got here...Kind of eluded me.
Move them closer to the walls.
Minimum amount the speakers need to be off the wall is ~3".
As everyone has already suggested I suspect you are used to the Polks and a non linear frequency response. I would bet your old speakers had a bump in the 50-80hz range, something the M80s do not have. I had a SVS PB12-nsd that had a bump in the FR curve around 50-60hz abd it hit pretty hard, very noticeable when played with the M80s or any other speaker I tried them with. I didn't like it as much as I like its big brother the PB13 Ultra that I now own.
This thread is strange. I don't remember which Onkyo you tried, but I do recall most folks suggested you check your M80s before grabbing a new amplifier. Of course, it's your money.
Now you notice that the M80s need a subwoofer, and I think you're right. However, as ClubNeon points out, a small sub will not work. You need a sub to fill 20Hz-50Hz. That's not a small sub.
You need a powerful sub, which puts out clean low frequency output. I'd consider a Hsu, Epik Legend, or Empire, if you're on a budget, or one of the big Velodynes or Axioms if not.
The only time I have ever experienced overwhelming in your chest type bass with music was with a vintage pair of CV bookshelf speakers coupled with a passive 10" CV sub.
ZZ Top was enough to almost make you feel sick sitting in your chair when played at ridiculous SPL's. Didn't take much amplifier either as they were super efficient. However, not an accurate speaker.
I still have a fondness for Cerwin Vegas, my first set of speakers.
I was looking at the Klipsch 12" Synergy model. Has 300 watts, and can be had for $350. The M 80's sound great, a much more "defined" speaker then the Polks. There just missing a little bit of the Polks bottom...which i guess after 25 years i'm used too. This also could be the room as the ceiling height is only 7 & 1/2 feet, but heavy acoustical dropped tiles. I'm not looking for chest pounding make you sick bass, just want to make up that little bottom end, that i'm used to. The Polks sat farther off the wall, but had a 12" passive speaker in the front with no ports, so however it was tuned, i "assume" thats were that little extra bottom is coming from.
The M80's will play insanly loud...in fact TOO loud...LOL
I see no reason to try and push them to insane levels to try and match the bottom of the Polks. So even tho, i'm not a big fan of subs, i think they could use just that little extra help.
Why aren't you a fan of subs?
Full range speakers reproduce sound from 20 hz to 20,000hz without more than 3db deviation. M80s can't do this. In fact, there are very few speakers that can. Much more power is required to produce low frequencies than high, so a passive speaker (non amplified) capable of full range sound production would require some great honking amplifier.
It makes a lot of sense to relieve your speaker (and amp) of the stressful task of producing sub 50hz output.
Also, just because a speaker puts out low frequency energy that shakes the house doesn't mean it is producing music. I have heard some speakers which flatulate loud enough to shake the house, but which sound more like the mens room at the sumo dojo after baked beans dinner than music.
I wouldn't pair such quality speakers as the M80s with a sub like this. I would either stay without one or buy a good one.
But I still think that what you're looking for is the the 50/80Hz area that the M80s play just fine (flat). If you get a good flat sub and calibrate it properly, you shouldn't get more bass from the sub than from the M80s in this frequency range unless you run the sub hot a few dBs.
I have heard some speakers which flatulate loud enough to shake the house, but which sound more like the mens room at the sumo dojo after baked beans dinner than music.
that was a true LOLer raht thar.
Well i think it is more the fact i have never used one before. So setting it up could be a problem, as far as volume matching. Plus may have to do with the source CD's...as i may feel that i need to just jump up and turn it down.
I gather you don't like the Klipsch products. I looked at the Velodyne impact 12 but did not like the speakers connections.
I'm not looking to spend more then $350 for this.
I'm not looking for massive overkill bass. However and for what ever reason, be it the room, of the fact of the 12" front fireing speaker in the Polks, there is a difference in the bass.
I'm just looking to replace what "I" feel is missing, nothing more.
what i would suggest is that you make careful Fr. resp. measurements of your M80s at different positions until you get good (flat) freq. response in the lowest frequencies;
when you move the speakers, try not to move them more than 3 inches at a time, and make logarithmic graphs of the results.
try 3 inches away from the front wall (that will be an effective distance of 19.5 ins. from the speaker's front to the front wall), and for the distance from the side wall, make sure it's not a multiple of the other distances (woofer to floor / woofer to front wall).
always measure distances from the center front of the speaker box.
when you have found the best position, then see if the bass satisfies you. if not, then choose a sub that will supplement the missing frequencies, at least down to 20 Hz.
i would be surprised if you can find a sub that will give you -3dB at 20 Hz (with sufficient SPL capability) for $350.
you also have to look for a sub that sound "musical", and not like a boom box.
hope this helps. :-)
You won't find any sub under at least $1000 min that will put out meaningful output at 20hz. And that "in your chest" punch or "slam" as some call it is well above that, more in the upper bass region.
I would look at those for a start:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.htmlhttp://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.htmlhttp://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=406http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=892Although, I am not sure that in this price range you'll find a sub that will offer much more that the M80s unless of course you run them a few dB hot and at the volume that you seem to be listening, I am not sure they can even keep up.
I would also check the used market (I use Audiogon.com) for your price range. I did notice a Sunfire sub listed for $400 that might be a place to start.
Well this is a strict 2 channel stereo system, so i have no fr respose meter. I will try them at 3" off the wall, see what that dose. Altho i feel with the back ports the ceiling may be sucking this up somehow. It's a very long room about 28 feet.
There is also an open doorway on the left side...
But i will give it a try..see if that works.
Sorry guys, the M80's are going back. Besides the fact i had to pull all the tweeters and reclamp all the connections, the right speaker has something wrong with one of the bass drivers..It's not an out right pop..but it's there. and only happens with the right speaker. Just too much for me to deal with, on new speakers. I'm not sure whats wrong....but, i'm done.
very rare, but unfortunate.
Good luck to you in finding what you're looking for.
Let us know what you end up going with. We're always on the lookout for stuff that sounds good.
I found it back when I joined in 2004.
Yeah, we all did, but surely you would agree that Axiom is not the be-all and end-all of things that sound good.
true, if thump thump wooof woof is what you want, your correct.
No, that's not what I mean. I'm just wondering if you think that Axioms are the only true high-quality speaker out there.
I'm sure the M80s are not the greatest speakers in the world but I have yet to hear speakers that sound better at $1300 or less.
If you like it crazy loud (highly efficient) and an exaggerated midbass (ie lots of slam, punch in chest) check out CV's. They are specifically voiced this way.
@bdpf: Me too, though I haven't heard many of the names we often see here, like Paradigm. My next favorite speaker after the M80 was a Focal tower; forget which model.
@BlueJays1: Sounds like a good suggestion based on my (distant) experience with them. I've wondered how their newer lines sound. Haven't heard them in years.
I'm sorry guys, these were B stock speakers, so im not sure what to say. They do work very well, but after i had to pull out... and clamp all the tweeter connections...the fact that the bass driver on the right speaker dose not seem to work well.
At this point...I just have to send them back.
No second chance? It is my opinion you will have to spend far more to get more than the M80 provide for the money.
I've heard better but not for what I paid for the M80s back when I bought them.
Even though they were B stock, they should have been fine sonically, that's unfortunate.
The CV's I have in storage where the late 80's/early 90's satellite/subwoofer. The sub is passive, downfiring 10" in a big ole` box.
The other was the CLS line I heard at a store.
Both have that classic CV signature. Loud, "make you feel the music" sound.
Whats their new line, the CMX? They look like CV's on steroids.
No Dr. what I'm saying is that for the thump in the chest he is looking for, he will not find that in the majority of loudspeaker brands at any price. I don't call mains with 12" drivers true loudspeakers for 2 channel listening, that is why you include a sub. Which will do much better than one incorporated into the design.
My Realistic Mach 1's back in the late 70s/early 80's had 12" woofers, and did provide that thump I think Bob is looking for, however, today I've come to prefer a speaker like Axiom or Paradigm. The college thump thump wooooof wooooof days are over.
I do agree with Adrian that it is very unfortunate this happened, and the first time I've heard of these issues since becoming a member, with loose connections, etc. B-Stock is still new speakers and I would think Axiom would work with Bob on this issue.
Bye bobt.
This one has been strange from the beginning. He dumped an Onkyo Integra M504 true dual mono 4 ohm capable killer amp for no reason, refused to properly test his M80s, reminisced fondly about speakers which are old school thumpers, professed that he didn't like subwoofers when that is exactly what is needed to fill the 20-60Hz frequency range.
This was not a match that had a chance of working.
The M80s are accurate, pure and natural speakers comparable to really expensive, high end products.
They are not thumpers. They are Axioms.
Maybe a candidate for some sweet Nuance towers
I've heard things about Streem speakers.
And Chase Home Theater subs.
Wow. I am just reading this thread for the first time and it sounded like a lost cause from the start. It is very odd that the speaker connectors just "fell off." Not saying that they didn't but very strange to me, and if so, very rare since I don't think that it has ever been reported here before.
Then to say that the M80s are lacking "some level" of bass is silly. It isn't the same as having a sub, but I remember listening to Randy's (Sirquack's) M80s a few years back. He was doing a demo for someone else at the time. I asked him "so which sub(s) are turned on?" since he had a few hooked up... He said, "None. That is just the M80s."
I was amazed at the bass level. Then again, he has a nicely treated room for sound, and my little theater room was terrible for acoustics. I was breaking about every rule out there with a room and my M60s due to limited HT room location possibilities in our house.
So the M80s have very nice bass, if you ask me. Again, not a kick you in the chest bass level from a big powered sub, but damn impressive.
My V4.0 of my theater in our new house will be "built to spec" with a good amount of the right treatments. I can't wait to hear what my M60s can do.
Nick, wow, not sure what to say. I think my setup sounded ok back then, but I still wonder what Sroode's sounds like.
I'm in the middle of redoing it now, enclosing off the theater portion. I put in two walls, one behind the 2nd row seating, and a second angled over to the AV equipment, with a dual french door entry.
Should be texturing soon. The room will be much smaller than the original plex, not sure how the sound will turn out, only time will tell, can't turn back now.
The two EP800s add more to the "feel" than the "sound". I agree with nick that for most music listening, the M80s do very well on their own. When I was remodeling the theater, I hooked up just the M80s to the amp I made in the other room and I was surprised at the amount of bass they put out as well.
What I do not understand is that he created all these threads about his purchase and then he didn't even bother to listen to peoples suggestions.
After about the 3 thread I thought of BoB/335.
What I do not understand is that he created all these threads about his purchase and then he didn't even bother to listen to peoples suggestions.
After about the 3 thread I thought of BoB/335.
As did I.
Who is BoB/335
Sort of like BobT, but a lot angrier.
Who is BoB/335
Just a guy who was very neurotic about his purchasing decisions and would create a new thread about every little question/detail. However, was hesitant to take suggestions/advice. He wouldn't even hook the majority of the equipment up. Just one of those people that was impossible to please. We all have those in our own lives.
Just one of those people that was impossible to please. We all have those in our own lives.
Ummm, I'm not married
.
Sort of like BobT, but a lot angrier.
WOW, so there is more than one like this?
I think Bob/335 may have had buyers remorse the moment he ordered.
Sort of like BobT, but a lot angrier.
WOW, so there is more than one like this?
Here you go Bruno....
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=7375
LMAO well i did expect you guys to cratz on me, but i did take your advice..to a point. If you feel my takeing out the Onkyo and replacing it with a QSC amp was a problem so be it. If you do not believe the tweeter connections fell of after they got here. Well so be it agian. Don't know what to tell you, but they they were never on there right, period.
I have nothing bad to say about the speakers, they are very good an defined. The fact that they do not give the same bass as the old Polks... that is just my feeling. Be it right or wrong.
The fact that one of the drivers also has a problem, pretty much thru me over the edge. For new speakers i don't expect this. So at this point, i decided to send them back.
I don't know if this is because they were "B" stock or not. But, when i have to pull all the tweeters and reclamp them, then find a driver that's not too good. Sorry, for me. Just not that great.
If there was not a driver problem, i would have kept them. But that was kind of the last straw, at least for me. They seem to be great speakers. But for whatever reason, in my case did not work out. I have no axe to grind, or have a problem with these speakers, in fact i think they are really good speakers. But the amount of problems i've had...they just have to go back. Nothing more.
Just a PS to this...If Axiom was willing to send me a new SET of speakers, i'd be more then happy to try them out, and if no problems keep them. But when you get a set of speakers, that both have problems with the tweeter connections,on BOTH speakers and now a driver problem. There is no way i could keep them, and either would any of you if you had these problems.
Have you actually called and talked to Axiom, most likely they would comply with your wishes.
Now why would he do a silly thing like that?
I'm not sure they would have sent a new set of speakers. If he says the problem is with one driver,most likely they would have sent just the one driver. But again, if it would have been me, I would have taken the driver, take 5 min to replace it like I've done in the past and be done with it. Bob's choice of returning the speakers is fine, I'm just wondering how many speakers he's gonna try and how many problems he's gonna run into before he finds what he wants. Please Bob, keep us posted as this is pretty entertaining.
Thanks Rick. Too bad there's too many posts! and this guy reached over 500! From what I've read, it seems that he was even better than BobT! what's going on with all the BOBs anyway? Makes me regret to not have been that active on the forum at that time
Yeah...i find nothing entertaining about this at all. Yes Axiom will send me new drivers, but the fact i had to repair brand new speakers in the first place, dose NOT float my boat. I have never had this problem with other speakers...so are you guys, just willing to fix NEW speakers all the time??? that should work out of the box. Yeah i can see replaceing drivers on old speakers, and other problems. But this dose not work for me.
When all the tweeters in 2 speakers...don't have the right connections, and fall off....you think thats enetertaining??
On brand new speakers???? I don't! and don't trust the speakers, when there ends up to be a bad driver in one of them.
I don't seem to find this funny at all. I will just go back to a High dollor set of Martin Logans or Jamo's, which don't seem to have this problem.
Your stupid comments about how many speakers i will try is useless, i tried these, because of the price point. Period.
I didn't have a problem with these speakers...but you people seem to think this is all a joke. Not to me, i gave them a try..did not work. When you get new speakers, that have these kinds of problems....not good!
I've called Axiom in the past when I had problems with my EP800s instead of venting on a BB. First, we tried new amps, and they did not work. Then, they more than happily sent me brand new speakers, and pre-paid shipping invoices to send the old ones back.
You have a 5 year unlimited warranty that you could use if you choose to. I don't think it's a joke and I know how frustrating it can be. I think just many people here see that you really have not taken too much advice and are giving up. That's fine, it's your choice to do that, but you really could have the speakers you have now fixed/repalced for free rather than paying return shipping.
I stand by my previous advice.
My suggestion is that you return the M80s and just buy something else since your initial hesitation and this experience have likely tainted your opinion of them to the point that if you do get them working properly cognitive dissonance will stop you from wanting to keep them.
My only criticism of bobt is his spelling... and an apparent reluctance to take the rational path (verify) instead of the most expensive path (don't bother identifying the problem, just throw money at it).
bobt, do you work for the government?
Once again, LMAO..I used to fix large computer systems..well awear of how to trouble shoot problems. I felt no need to subject my old Onkyo to the problem, which these speakers seem to have had. And they do! You don't like my method...too bad.
Don't like my spelling..well...again..to bad. There seems to be something you don't get....the wires came off the speakers after they were here. If that is something you don't get..sorry.
I pulled an old vintage amp, and replaced it with a new amp, that can handle(stated) a 4 ohm load and not blow up. Very simple..what is it you don't get? If i worked for a computer company..i would not care if i blew up the old amp..but since it's mine and vintage..I pulled it from the equation. Period.
I hope you are not yelling at me, because I have been nothing but courteous to you and hopefully helpful. I am only suggesting that it is not worth spending the $100+ on shipping to send these speakers back and get nothing in return when they are under warranty and will be repaired for nothing.
The vintage Onkyo M-504 is not extremely valuable anyway:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ONKYO-M504-AMPLIFIER-/220781655768?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item33679cb6d8You can pick them up for about $300.
Now, if you do not like the sound of your speakers, that's a different story.
I'm not yelling at anybody...altho some people on here think i did not take there advice on trouble shooting a problem. Which is NOT correct. I did to a point. If they don't like the path i selected..so be it. Again, i have nothing bad to say about the Axioms...so i'm not sure what the problem is, or why selected people would like to continue to degrade me.
The speakers either work or they don't. For me, they did not, enough said.
That's all that needs to be said, really. I totally understand being unimpressed by the whole situation. I've had my share of issues with Axiom products, but thankfully I started with a very smooth experience when I first got my M80s. Issues only came with later purchases, and by then I was addicted to the Axiom experience. As far as resolutions to my issues, Axiom has been phenomenal, by far the best end results I've encountered in any customer service. While I think there's currently room for improvement in turn-around time and communication, at least I know I'll be taken care of in the end. That's worth a lot to me. However, going back to how I began the paragraph, I'm on board with your frustration. That's just not how it's supposed to go.
I hope the next car, tv, mower, etc. you buy Bob doesn't have issues. It is unfortunate you had your issues, and most of us that have been friends of the Axiom company for a long time know they will bend over backward for their customers. I admit, what you experienced is very unusual, and keep in mind most of us are techies to and are familiar with working with a variety of electronics. I myself do HP certified repair for my company, and have built more pc's for people than I can count.
When someone has issues and decides to post on the forums about the problems they are having, it is assumed they are looking for feedback and help on resolving the issue. I will appologize for myself if I came across in a negative manner, but I hope you understand it seemed you didn't want to hear what we had to say.
Audio is a hobby for all of us, and many of us have had equipment going back a long time, your not the only one with vintage equipment.
Anyway, wish you well and hope things work out in the future whatever you decide.
so are you guys, just willing to fix NEW speakers all the time???
Hmmm.... Mine have worked perfectly since the day I bought them over 6 years ago. Mine were B Stock too.
I'm just wondering how many speakers he's gonna try and how many problems he's gonna run into before he finds what he wants.
Your stupid comments about how many speakers i will try is useless, i tried these, because of the price point. Period.
There is nothing stupid about my comment. I commented about how many speakers you're gonna try because what I understand from everything that you've posted is that you're basically looking for a speaker that is detailed and accurate in the mids and highs but also emphasized (= not accurate) the bass which was what the woofers of your Polks were giving you (probably typical on most speakers from the 80s), speakers that can handle SPL levels to put you depth and all of this for a relative cheap price. Well let me tell you, you're gonna have a hell of a time finding them. Now regarding my comment about how many problems you're gonna run into, well you might have been a very lucky person by never having any problem. From my experience, on everything you buy you'll find something wrong if you look deep enough in 20/30% of the cases (or maybe I'm just unlucky).
I used to fix large computer systems..well awear of how to trouble shoot problems.
I have to admit that that came out of a surprise to me. As someone who designs and troubleshoot electronics for living, I don't quite understand your "troubleshooting" method. You have a simple equation:
A (M80s) + B (Onkyo) = C (Sound)
You have a problem with C, you know that B works fine with your other speakers and from what other people in this forum tell you (people obviously more knowledgeable than you) it should work reasonably well with A, so the "logic" way is to troubleshoot A which is what 90% of the people told you. You as an experienced troubleshooter decide to bring another variable into the equation D (QSC) so now you have a new equation to solve:
A (M80s) + D (QSC) = C (Sound)
The result of your troubleshooting is A has a problem.
Bob, I'm not sure I would have had my computer repaired at your place.
altho some people on here think i did not take there advice on trouble shooting a problem. Which is NOT correct.
Really, let me just go through a few extracts of you previous thread:
At what level were you playing? Try a lower volume setting. It shouldn't go into protect unless it is pretty loud, any amp should be able to do 4 Ohms at lower levels.But first, check your wiring. It's more likely that there is a short somewhere. Look for one strand out of place on one end or the other. Second, try one speaker at a time. Just in case there is an internal defect.
The Onkyo just dose not like 4 ohm loads...pretty much. There is no other reason for the amp to shut down, It has never done that in 20 years
Really, I still think something is wrong. There aren't many amps that can't drive the M80s at moderate levels.
Well this is a 1980's amp. Probably never made to do 4 ohm loads.It works great for 6 ohms as what the Polks are. But 4 ...it dose NOT like. There is nothing wrong with the setup...I've run this for 20 years. I double checked everything. Its basically the amp dose not like the 4 ohm load..period.
Here is how you troubleshoot:
what i did find was 1 guy who said...dose NOT work for 4 ohm stuff. Which now i beleive 100%.
Some more advice shall we?
Few people have suggested that there might be a problem with the speaker itself, maybe you should investigate that route before investing on another amp.
Try driving ONE speaker on one channel. Then, try that same speaker on the OTHER channel. Then, do the same sequence for the other speaker.
Tom....I hope the hell not. The amp has been perfect for 20 years. I'm not going to try the m80's any more. I'll throw the old Advents on it...make sure it kicks ass.
A few people suggested for you to check the drivers to take the speakers out of the equation but I didn't see a reply that you did, it might be something wrong with them or not, but worth to have a look.
As others have said, an intermittent short somewhere in the wiring appears to be a more likely problem. This might even be internal wiring in one of the M80s, so as Tom suggested, try driving then one at a time to see if only one of them causes a shutdown.
The problem would be i'm not about to blow up the amp..to see if the speakers have a problem. I could check 1 speaker at a time...but again.. i have to run it till the amp shuts down. Not my Fav thing to do...as i could blow up the amp doing this.
I'm not even gonna go to the discussion that people had to try to explain to you that the amp was shutting down to protect itself and therefore there is nothing to blow cause it's just a lost cause...
Tom's idea of trying the speakers one at a time is very valid. There may be a problem with one of the speakers, and that test would root it out.
OK, I'm only at page 6 and there is 15 pages, I'm just getting tired of copy/paste the same thing overe and over again. Does that seem like you're following advices? What was the problem in the end?
I will appologize for myself if I came across in a negative manner, but I hope you understand it seemed you didn't want to hear what we had to say.
Contrary to Randy, I'm not apologizing as I feel I have never been rude or disrespectful towards you. The opposite cannot be said as you just called me stupid. I'm just amazed in your persistence in rejecting good advice when obviously you don't know what you're talking about.
The speakers either work or they don't. For me, they did not, enough said.
This part, I (and I'm sure most people who gave you advice on this forum) agree with. After having the problems you had, some people (like you) would return the speakers, some people (like me) would just take another 5 min, replace the driver and end up with a good working speaker at a good price, there is no right or wrong, both are valid options. And in case you think I'm talking out of my a$$ and I never had problems I'll point you to this thread in case you want to read it:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=334432&page=3Even though I had to go through the frustration and the headache, in the end I'm glad I did cause now I have a perfectly working system that I truly enjoy and I couldn't be happier, so for me it was worth it, for you it might not.
In the end, the best advice is Dean's
My suggestion is that you return the M80s and just buy something else since your initial hesitation and this experience have likely tainted your opinion of them to the point that if you do get them working properly cognitive dissonance will stop you from wanting to keep them.
and I'll wish you again what I wished a few posts earlier
Good luck to you in finding what you're looking for.
I swore to myself I wouldn’t post on this topic again but I have to say, nice post Bruno!
Bruno, I'll happily buy you a beer at the first opportunity.
I will appologize for myself if I came across in a negative manner, but I hope you understand it seemed you didn't want to hear what we had to say.
An apology with an if and a but rings hollow, Randy.
The speakers either work or they don't. For me, they did not, enough said.
bobt, go in peace. I too hope you find a capable replacement for your vintage speakers.
Bill
Eye have a spelling chequer,
It came with my Pea Sea.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss Steaks I can knot sea.
Eye strike the quays and type a whirred
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am write oar wrong
It tells me straight a weigh.
Eye ran this poem threw it,
Your shore real glad two no.
Its vary polished in its weigh.
My chequer tolled me sew.
A chequer is a bless thing,
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right all stiles of righting,
And aides me when eye rime.
Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The chequer pours o'er every word
Two cheque sum spelling rule.
Rick, this is easier to read than some owner's manuals we used to see from Asia some years ago. You're comparatively a very good speller.
i like it too. :-)
You're comparatively a very good speller.
If you only knew.
That is actually from the Wikipedia site I *was* going to suggest to bobt regarding spell-check but he's more than likely a thousand miles from nowhere by now.
Dean, Thanks.
Tom, I don't know if the opportunity will ever come up but it would most definitely be my pleasure.
Rick, that was funny
New screen name for Bruno--NaySayerSlayer?
Hey Rick, that post really 'dose' it for me!
All the people I know that "fix large computer systems" are a tad more educated. I would think that pulling apart a speaker and checking it would be pretty damn simple compared to buying something you don't need.
Hey Rick, that post really
'dose' it for me!
Come on guys be
nice! That
dose it!
LMAO..well i'm sure you could care less as to what i have to say at this point, since i sent the M80's back. But the old Onkyo, could not handle the load, in the first place..just wanted to clip or shut down. I did pull all the tweeters, on both speakers and fixed them. The fact that one of the drivers is also bad, was to me..too much for a new speaker.
Very simple...not rocket science. How many times are you supposed to fix brand new speakers? before you say..well gee..thats enough.
LMAO..well i'm sure you could care less as to what i have to say at this point, since i sent the M80's back. But the old Onkyo, could not handle the load, in the first place..just wanted to clip or shut down. I did pull all the tweeters, on both speakers and fixed them. The fact that one of the drivers is also bad, was to me..too much for a new speaker.
Very simple...not rocket science. How many times are you supposed to fix brand new speakers? before you say..well gee..thats enough.
Well, everyone has it's own opinion and nobody can argue with you. I kinda get you since it is very frustrating have to fix something that was supposed to work flawlessly since you laid your hands on it, but you could also understand that sometimes mistakes happen, it has been a bad one in your case. So it is a matter of opinion. Either you give Axiom a chance or return your speakers which you did. So let bygones be bygones and good luck on finding new speakers.
LMAO..well i'm sure you could care less as to what i have to say at this point, since i sent the M80's back. But the old Onkyo, could not handle the load, in the first place..just wanted to clip or shut down. I did pull all the tweeters, on both speakers and fixed them. The fact that one of the drivers is also bad, was to me..too much for a new speaker.
Very simple...not rocket science. How many times are you supposed to fix brand new speakers? before you say..well gee..thats enough.
Well, everyone has it's own opinion and nobody can argue with you. I kinda get you since it is very frustrating have to fix something that was supposed to work flawlessly since you laid your hands on it, but you could also understand that sometimes mistakes happen, it has been a bad one in your case. So it is a matter of opinion. Either you give Axiom a chance or return your speakers which you did. So let bygones be bygones and good luck on finding new speakers.
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP...
Bravo!
Recently there do seem to be more threads with Axiom speaker out of box issues. I bought all mine years ago and they were (and are) perfect as far as I am concerned.
The amplifier seems to have been a failure, the subs have had major issues, and recently both finish and construction quality have been questioned. I have concerns about recommending Axion at this point. Just my opinion.
Bill
I bought mine about 6 yrs back. There were nights when the Captain & I really punished them & they sound better than ever. Never a problem. Maybe their sales are up so a few more problems. Just guessing.
Well, any business that is growing needs to take care not to grow more than they can at the moment otherwise they might just go bankrupt for losing it's appeal to the customer. Not the case of Axiom, but I did saw many business that started to grow fast and in the same speed they closed doors because they weren't prepared to be that big and decided to take more orders than they could afford.