Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200

Posted by: xboyfriends

Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/21/11 06:48 PM

Hello Everyone
I m from Thailand so sorry about my English
after i got my Epic 80 Ep500 and denon 3311 i play movie @0db
and i feel like it not lound enough for me so i decide to add power amp from outlaw
should i just add 7200 or Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 (it 's on sale now )
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/21/11 07:29 PM

Adding the Marantz will NOT help you with volume. Just continue to use the 3311 as a pre-amp with whatever amplification you get.

I would save some money and buy three of the Outlaw 2200 monoblocks and use them to power the Left, Center and Right channels and continue to use the 3311 to power your surround channels.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/21/11 08:59 PM

What the beer-dude said.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/21/11 09:54 PM

XBF, welcome. Your post is a bit surprising and disturbing. If you have your system calibrated correctly, playing at 0dB means that the maximum level of 105dB for movie sound specifications is possible. Very few home listeners use this 0dB "reference" level, since it's considered entirely too loud for continuous use, and more commonly a level of -10dB or so is used.

Getting a 200 watt separate amplifier would add only about 2dB to the maximum output level at which your speakers can now play with your 3311. For example, if 107dB is now possible, a just barely noticeably different 109dB could be reached. Your 3311 should have all the power capacity needed to drive your speakers at levels which won't cause permanent damage to your hearing; a separate amplifier shouldn't be needed.

On the chance that your system isn't correctly calibrated at 0dB, but is in fact low, you can try using +2dB or +3dB instead of 0 to see if the sound level is more satisfactory with this "free upgrade".
Posted by: xboyfriends

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 01:06 AM

@Tom thanks for yours advice i may go with it but since johnk said it only add only about 2dB to the maximum output level i may forget about amp
@JohnK sorry if my post make u and other disturbing i really didn't mean to i just a new baby
As u said did i calibrate my system correctly
i guess no so i think it best for me to Research how to calibrated correctly

Sorry again if i disturbing Someone ^_^
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 01:36 AM

All that I meant by "disturbing"(no apology on your part necessary)was that if you had your system calibrated correctly, playing at 0dB would be extremely loud and most people listen at a lower level. I was concerned for your hearing, since you wanted it even louder.

The 3311 can do an automatic calibration, following the procedure in your manual(which is sometimes difficult to read)or you can manually calibrate with the help of a sound pressure level meter, if you have one. The meter would also show you how loud it actually was being played when you were listening to music or watching a movie. Levels much above 80dB, which is comfortably loud, shouldn't be in continuous use.

There may be something that needs correction, but it's highly unlikely that more power than the 3311 can supply is the solution, if you're listening at a typical distance around 10-12 feet.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 07:42 AM

You were not disturbing John, that is impossible to do as he is an android. smile He was just worried about your hearing.

There are a few ways to calibrate. One, using an SPL meter and manually turning on the Denon's dB tones to cycle through each speaker. You adjust the dB's up or down until all speakers are the same.

Or, as John mentioned the receiver should have come with a microphone, that will automatically set everything following the manual.
Posted by: xboyfriends

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 01:59 PM

Another reason i make this topic and i didn't mention is i just want to know if AV7005 +m7700 with XLR connection Voltage gain: XLR 34dB, RCA 28dB.also will have a better sound than denon +7200 i have been read a lots of review about Av7005 so it make me wonder
But in the end after read your comment and i have been talk to someone at outlaw i found out that i would on gain a little so i think i should go back a do more on turning
by the way when u said calibrate is it mean Audyssey MultEQ
if yes it set my speaker RLC at -3 db
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 03:53 PM

Also check your settings after running Audyssey for speaker size/crossover. If speakers show large, you should change that setting to small. For ex, the M80's might be set to large with a lower crossover of 40hz. Change to small, and then maybe bump up the crossover to 60 or 80.

This is normal, and recommended by Audyssey company, and the users guide many follow on AVSforum.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/22/11 04:13 PM

Good catch, Randy.
Posted by: xboyfriends

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/23/11 12:37 AM

After i check my setting RLC is set to Fullband and qs8 is 150
also channel lvl r-6db c-7db l-6db and qs8 is -3db
So i did what sirquak said Change to small, and then maybe bump up the crossover to 80.
and it sound a lots better and lounder i can't even go to 0db again the highest vol i go is now -6to -10db
Thank everyone for save me 2k and now i really enjoy Music and movie ^_^
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/23/11 01:27 AM

Very good, xbf; enjoy. Yes, sirquak has saved the day for many of our members who thought that the way to solve a problem was to throw money at an amplifier.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/23/11 11:47 AM

I am very happy that that solved your problem however, I can't really understand why!
The M80s were set to large so playing full range. Even if the crossover was set low to 40Hz, the M80s will play down to 25 Hz or so and the EP500 from 40Hz down. Now with the new setting, the M80s will play to 80Hz and then the sub from 80Hz down. If the system is calibrated properly, it should be no difference in volume by the 20Hz-80Hz being played by the sub vs by the towers.
Can someone tell me what am I missing?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/23/11 10:26 PM

Bruno, I also was very happy that the supposed volume problem was solved, and I was terrified by the thought that if we tried to analyze it in more detail, it would re-appear.

Nevertheless, in what you describe, the crossover setting with the M80s set "Large" would be of no significance unless a "+" type of setting had been selected(no indication that this was the case). Otherwise, the EP500 would play no main channel bass at all, regardless of the crossover setting. I'll take the risk of speculating that an unsatisfactory bass level(because the sub was playing no main channel bass)was masquerading as an inadequate overall volume level, which was corrected when the EP500 began to play the main channel low bass.
Posted by: xboyfriends

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/24/11 01:47 AM

This is what Audyssey auto adjust for my system
Speaker config Front =large Center =Large Sub = yes Surround = small
Distance L=9.7ft R=10.2ft C= 9.1ft L surround=8.3 and R surround =6.2
Crossover Front= fullband C=Fullband Surround= 120hz
and the reason that why my system is not lound i guess is Channel level L= -6.5 R= -5 C=-7 sub =+3.5 Lsur-3 and Rsur=-5
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/24/11 11:20 AM

Also, it depends on the room size and type(enclosed/wide open) as well as the listening distance as to what is too loud/not loud enough. The 3311 is basically a newer version of my 2809 and will play VERY loud in a typical home setup. I also concur with Randy's suggestion of checking your settings.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/24/11 12:23 PM

John,
I understand what your saying but what I'm trying to get at is that the 25-80Hz range is played in case 1 by the M80s , in case 2 buy the EP500. If the AVR is set at 0dB, the the volume at 50Hz for example should be the same in both cases if the system is calibrated properly. If he had "double bass" enabled, it would be even louder in case 1. I still can't understand why his system sounds "louder" now.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Marantz AV7005+Outlaw7700 or Denon 3311 +7200 - 07/25/11 09:56 PM

IIRC, there is a chance that with double bass enabled the bass from the Mains can nullify the bass from the sub depending on positionind and room design