M22 in-wall advice

Posted by: F16Thud

M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 01:35 PM

Hello, I have been a long time follower of Axiom (since about 2004), and I'm finally ready to buy some speakers within a week or so!!

I am looking at the M22 in-walls for my front L and R speakers. I am simply wanting the best sound I can get for about $550! But, I really want to stick with an in-wall speaker, for a nice clean look (WAF and Kids running around).

The only real difference between the M22 in-walls and other brands, is the tweeter can swivel but Axiom's don't. Is that really a big enough deal to go to another brand (Polk, Definitive Tech, Aperion)??

I have just seen numerous posts saying how people prefer the boxed M22, because they can position the speaker (tweeter) to get the desired imaging.

So, why didn't Axiom make a swiveling tweeter for their in-wall speakers? Or, is it simply not a big enough deal for Axiom to make it happen?

What I do really like, is that Axiom has designed the M22 with a back box, and few companies seem to incorporate that with the speaker itself (Monitor Audio) its usually and additional accessory! I just don't want my walls to "sing along", Its just another variable that I would think would be undesirable. Being that the speakers are in the wall, Im sure it will affect the sound a tiny bit anyway.

So, please send your thoughts! I really appreciate your time!

Thanks
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 02:07 PM

F16,

As you've already noted, Axiom speakers include the back box, an integral part of controlling the quality of any speaker's output. If you can't control the back sound wave, then you can't control the sound of your speaker. The advantages of Axiom's in-wall speaker design outweigh the benefits of the "swivability" of the tweeters provided with other brands.
Posted by: cb919

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
...The advantages of Axiom's in-wall speaker design outweigh the benefits of the "swivability" of the tweeters provided with other brands.


Peter, I am pretty sure the word is 'rotationality'! grin

F16, I have the in/on wall M22's and have not felt the need to aim the tweeters. The Axiom on or in wall designs really takes care of most of the variables. IMO Axiom really has a bang for the buck advantage when it comes to on wall speaker designs.

Cheers,
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 05:28 PM

Part of what makes Axiom speakers sound so good is their flat off-axis response, which also mitigates the need to aim the tweeters. Having the tweeters in a different plane than the other driver(s) will certainly compromise the sonic image.

Basically, I think swivelable tweeters are a gimmick employed by speakers that may not be designed very well in the first place.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 06:10 PM

I don't know about the in-wall, but I reported a couple of years ago about the large amount of comb-filtering I discovered with the On-wall M22's. This may be a problem with all on wall or in wall speakers. I don't know. It was enough to turn me off from them, though. The boxy M22's did not have this same problem.

I would play a constant pitch sound at a constant volume, using one of the CD's I have with these kind of sound tracks on it. As I slowly walked from one side of the room to the other, holding a radio shack sound meter (pointed at the speakers), my ears and the meter would pick up the volume differences that would go up and down as I moved. They would stay at the same level with no movement. There were a lot of variances and only an inch or 2 apart from each other.

I've never heard anyone else prove this one way or the other.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 06:45 PM

Well, yeah, positioning is always going to be critical whether you're talking about traditional speakers or inwalls or whatever. And I mean positioning in all three planes, and relative to all the other planes in your house.

The problem with any built-in speaker is that it's almost impossible to know exactly how everything is going to sound until you get it installed, and - by then - it's too late to make positioning adjustments practically.

The room is pretty important, and you can't really use trial and error to adjust the relationship between the room and the speakers if you are using inwalls.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 07:21 PM

That sounds like the same response I got last time. Assuming it was caused by the room. I'm not convinced it was my room. I can't see how the room would alter what is coming out of the front of the speakers. Remember, I tried the same experiment with the boxy speakers. The we're placed at the same height and absolutely no comb filtering with them. To me this disproves it was the room.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 07:27 PM

Were they in the same PLANE? Did you mount the box speakers so that their fronts were exactly the same distance from every wall (including the mounting wall) as the others? It's not just "what's coming out of the front of the speakers" that matters; it's the room reflections, too. And "what's coming out the front" is certainly affected by the size and shape of the immediately adjacent surface.

Look, I don't know why you perceived comb filtering, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that either the room is irrelevant or that your conditions were sufficiently controlled as to be conclusive.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 07/31/12 07:42 PM

Not a controlled test. I'm just reporting my observances. It was enough to convince me that the boxy speakers were more accurate than the on-wall variety. No need to mount the boxy M22 on the same plane. That wouldn't reflect actual listening experience.
Posted by: F16Thud

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 08/01/12 12:54 PM

Thanks for all the input! I will be placing my order shortly!

The whole comb filtering issue is a bit odd. My uneducated guess would be a faulty driver or crossover??

Anyway, I am going to give Axiom a go, and I'll be sure to post some pics!
Posted by: mreed

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 08/03/12 07:19 AM

I recently purchased the in-wall M22's and they are fantastic. I cant think of any reason I would want to move the tweeters or change a thing about them. They are perfect how they are.
Posted by: F16Thud

Re: M22 in-wall advice - 08/17/12 10:51 AM

In-Wall M22's ordered! I will finally get to hear what you all have been talking about for so many years! I will post some pictures of the install!

I purchased these speakers in black oak, because they would pretty much go with any room changes in the future.

Thanks for the input!