Two subs and M22's

Posted by: DanielBMe

Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 12:31 PM

I'm thinking of changing some items around in my home and I thought I'd ask for your thoughts.

If I have a pair of M80's and for the moment say an ep500 would I lose or gain anything by going to two ep500's and a pair of M22's?

I'm currently trying to decide on a new sub to replace my existing one but then thought about getting two. However if I get two ep500's then I definitely don't have room for my 80's.

My room is roughly 16 x 20 which is a living/dining room. The couch separates my room in two, so my living room is about 16 x 10. 70% HT vs 30% music.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 12:37 PM

My vote would be for the M22s and dual EP500s.

That is not a huge space so the M22s should (if all specs and stories are to be believed, since I don't personally own any) sound equally awesome to the M80s but with the added might of dual subwoofers. An easy choice for me.
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 01:24 PM

My HT utilizes two M22s that use two mid-grade Velodyne 10" subs as stands. This combo sounds marvelous to me for movies and audio as well.

I would think that a couple of EP500s (being much higher end gear) with M22s, would be a killer combo.

I've always been a proponent of satellites and sub combos; however, since I've experienced my new M2s combined with my outstanding EP400 sub in my audio only system, I highly recommend going this route.

TAM
Posted by: cb919

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 01:26 PM

How's the bass response in your room now? Do you think you'd significantly benefit from 2 subs?

I have never heard M80's, but if I had the space I would use them instead of my in/on wall M22's. What about keep the M80's and add an EP800? That would be a great combo for 70% HT watching.

What is your current setup?
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 01:32 PM

My current setup is in my signature. With the ep600 or 800 I just see them as huge! They would really stick out in my living room.

The bass is ok in my place. I could do better hence why I was looking at replacing my current sub. I'm just not sure if I would lose anything such as imaging, mid bass slam...I don't really.

I have to say two ep500's and M22's in Rosewood would sure look pretty nice... smile
Posted by: axiom_man

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 02:50 PM

I bought the M22's a couple weeks ago. I like a bookshelf type speaker for HT and subs.
I didn't think the M22 would cut it as my movie room is going to be 13.5 x 18.5.

Well I was very surprised and so wasn't a friend. I took those speakers to my place of work, we have a boardroom 16 x 25 x 10 and not only did it fill the room but he went to the bottom floor ( two floor building ) and he can hear them plan as day.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 06:53 PM

JohnK has M22's and Dual 500's... Maybe he will post a photo of his room... He really likes his setup a lot. I think that dual M22's and a pair of 500's would be better and nearly indistinguishable between a pair of 80's and a single sub, in some respects....


I will attest that Dual subs is WAY better than a single sub... So, i say go for the M22/Dual EP 500 setup.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/11/12 10:07 PM

Daniel, M22s supported in the low bass by a good sub or subs cover the entire audible range in a superb fashion. One area where the M80s could play louder would be the upper bass(say about 80-200Hz)where they have two 6 1/2" drivers compared to two 5 1/4". However, the M22s can certainly cover this range with enough volume for nearly all home use.

If you use two subs the maximum benefit in smoothing overall bass response is had when the subs are separated(your comment about not enough "room" implies that you may be thinking of placing the speakers and subs all close together)in certain locations. Typically this would be at the midpoints of the opposite sidewalls or front and back wall or in diagonally opposite corners. If you can place the subs efficiently, M22s plus two EP500s would serve you very well.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 09:10 AM

dak, John doesn't own a camera. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 09:11 AM

And I believe he has only one EP500.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 09:19 AM

Well I'm not that concerned about playing my system loud. I mean, I do play it loudish, but nowhere loud enough where I think I would see a diff between the 80's and 22's.

I think I'll sit on this a bit. If I do this, I suspect I would go with an all rosewood system. Now that the Rosewood caught my eye, I'm going to have a hard time ignoring it. It will cost quite a bit, so will have to save a bit more...
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: SirQuack
dak, John doesn't own a camera. smile


It's 2012 surely with as much techno stuff that John reads he has a digital camera?????????

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
And I believe he has only one EP500.



Ken, John has said before he has a pair of 500's... Unless i'm crazy or read it wrong... Both of which are possible i suppose........
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: SirQuackabble
dak, John doesn't own a camera. smile


Originally Posted By: dakdude
It's 2012 surely with as much techno stuff that John reads he has a digital camera?????????


Nope. He has a film camera (analog). The photos look more organic.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 11:15 PM

It's not that John doesn't have a camera. It's that after he was done sanitizing the photo to remove any evidence that he is not, in fact, the most convincing forum bot we've ever encountered, we'd be left with a completely black image.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/12/12 11:23 PM

No camera of any sort; one EP500 with a much less capable old sub used for two sub placement experiments.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/13/12 01:57 PM

If I decide to put my M80's up for auction what would be a reasonalble asking price? They are High Gloss Cherry, V3, and probably 1.5yrs old. I would also have to sell my HG VP150v2 as well so I can get a completely new matching system.

I believe I paid $1,800 for them and that was without tax...

Do you think $1,800 for both M80's and VP 150 is realistic?
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
My HT utilizes two M22s that use two mid-grade Velodyne 10" subs as stands. This combo sounds marvelous to me for movies and audio as well.

I would think that a couple of EP500s (being much higher end gear) with M22s, would be a killer combo.

I've always been a proponent of satellites and sub combos; however, since I've experienced my new M2s combined with my outstanding EP400 sub in my audio only system, I highly recommend going this route.

TAM



I too am having a tough time deciding.
Gotta have a matching system (want not need) and I too am leaning towards the M22's. The EP400 seems to be the right sub. My current sub is good but 2 that go below 20 hz would be nice.
Already have a pair of QS4s on route but think the QS8s should go as left and right rears.
I'm gonna need one more pair....once I have both I'll move them around...
I'm sorry to hijack your thread but I was hoping to get feed back on the M22 ans EP400x2 setup.
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 02:27 AM

brwsaw:

I have only 1 EP400 combined with 2 M2s; however, it is an audio only system. My EP400 is more than adequate for music up to fairly high levels (near field) in my large room - very impressive actually.

From all that I've read here, I think that the current wisdom is to use a bigger sub (preferably two) for HT unless your HT is in a small room. EP500s are not priced that much higher & will give more bass performance for the dynamics common to HT sound tracks.

TAM
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 02:41 AM

Thanks. I will keep comparing.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 10:28 AM

I'm definitely having a hard time to decide. I was browsing the gallery her on Axiom and noticed how many people have M80's. I then looked at mine and realized how much I love them.

I think I'm leaning towards just improving my sub...
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 10:58 AM

Funny, I keep thinking about getting my M22s back from my parents... wink Not to replace the M80s, of course.
Posted by: wilwom

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/14/12 09:57 PM

Daniel, if you have your front crossover set at 80Hz the M22s are the best value proposition. My M22s as fronts in a room of about 6,000 cubic feet are more than adequate.

I only had room for one sub and splurged and went with an SVS PC-13 Ultra. I've never regretted that investment.

My VP-150 was always the weak spot; but my newly acquired Denon with dynamic equalization/volume seems to have solved that weakness.

Bill
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/16/12 11:37 PM

Daniel - M80s, PB13 Ultra is a wonderful set up but your M80 EP500 for music is pretty much ideal IMO
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/17/12 12:04 PM

Right now I'm trying to decide between the EP500 and a custom made sub from Funky Waves. I can get a 15" sub from them in wood that would match my High Gloss Cherry M80's for about $60 more than the standard EP500, http://www.funkaudio.ca/15.0_Overview.html.

I'm also talking to him about doing a 12" passive radiator designed sub.

It's such a hard choice. I do like Axiom and all my other speakers are Axiom but to be able to get a sub for the same cost in wood that almost matches my HGC speakers plus is rounded...makes it hard to say no.

One thing that does concern me is that the Axiom subs have a 5yr warranty while I believe the Funky Waves sub only has a 1yr.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/17/12 09:50 PM

Funky Waves gets good reviews on Hometheater Shack,I haven't heard of anyone requiring the warranty but I also haven't searched all that hard for any issues with Funky waves. You know Axiom will always make it right with their warranty should you require it, you have a tough choice, good luck.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/17/12 11:00 PM

Well I've taken the plunge! I've decided to buy the EP500...from the outlet. Why not save some money! If I had a vehicle that could fit the sub, I'd take the 2hr drive up and grab it myself.

Now to wait 3 weeks...
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/17/12 11:27 PM

Very good, Daniel. Yes, no good reason not to take advantage of the 10% saving available in the outlet.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/21/12 01:46 AM

I wonder if the new outlet is operating like the old outlet, if it is you just might see a new sub sooner than you think, congrats!!.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 11:43 AM

Well I just cancelled my sub order and...........bought two EP500's, M22's, vp150 in Russian Maple. smile

I good a pretty good discount so I went with it.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 11:54 AM

Sounds NICE, Daniel!
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 12:40 PM

Two EP500s coupled with M22s should be a killer combo.

TAM
Posted by: Murph

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 02:46 PM

My brain actually said Whoohoo when I read that you pulled the trigger. You are going to love that setup! I so want a second EP500 for myself.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 05:03 PM

Just a quick question, what do I use to split the subwoofer cable? I have a Denon 3808ci so I guess I need some type of y connector but not sure what. Anyone know?

I don't see that Axiom sells any subwoofer cables or am I missing it?
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 05:13 PM

Anyone know how to calibrate two subs. That got me thinking of what is the best way.
1. Set the gain on the subs separately using an SPL which I have then run Audyssey
or
2. Set the gain on the subs so that the are both say turned to 10 o'clock but only have one powered up, then run Audyssey. If say Audyssey has the level at say...-1db I then unplug that sub and plug in the other and run Audyssey again. If the second sub shows as -3db for ex, I would turn up the gain on the back of the sub and rerun Audssey until it matches the level of the first sub. Once it does, I would then hook up both subs via the y connector and run the full audyssey on all 8 positions.

Which would be the proper way?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: DanielBMe
Well I just cancelled my sub order and...........bought two EP500's, M22's, vp150 in Russian Maple. smile

I good a pretty good discount so I went with it.

Atta boy!! If you have any money left, might I suggest the LFRs grin
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/23/12 11:11 PM

Daniel, there's actually no such thing as a cable specifically for a subwoofer connection, although some sellers label one of their cables as such. These are coaxial cables with RCA plugs on each end which can be used for various audio and video connections, including to a sub. The one i've used for about six years with my EP500 is this . For the two cables for two subs a "Y" adaptor is plugged into the sub out on the receiver and then the two cables are plugged into it. These Ys come in various forms and here's one type.

As far as setting up the two subs, the Audyssey version in your 3808 has one calibration setting for the two(some Audyssey XT32 models can set separate calibrations), so yes, it'd be a good idea to get the levels equalized with your SPL meter as a starting point. Then for the room equalization part of Audyssey, it would equalize the composite bass output from the two subs as one. A good discussion of using Audyssey with two subs is found here by scrolling down to and clicking on section f.2.
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/24/12 09:42 AM

Just ordered my cables from monoprice. Can't believe the $5 shipping fee is almost as much as my order of $7! Sad to think I paid $35 for my original subwoofer cable a couple of years ago...

Thanks John, it's appreciated!
Posted by: DanielBMe

Re: Two subs and M22's - 10/28/12 10:22 AM

Well just sold off my HSU STF-3 on Canuck Audio Mart. I put up the add Saturday and sold it a few hours later. Can't believe how many emails I got for it. Sold it for $200.

I was going to drive my M80's up to Axiom on Monday but looks like the weather is going to be pretty crappy the next 5 days so looks like I'll have to wait until the following Monday.

I'm thinking that instead of doing a tradeup I should have tried selling them first. Oh well, what's done is done.