Axiom in wall wire?

Posted by: GregD

Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 05:50 PM

The in wall cable has four wires. Would you recommend using two for each speaker post or one for each post and run two speakers of the one cable? Thanks
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 06:00 PM

you can get inwall wiring with 2 wire from other sources.
Posted by: GregD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 06:06 PM

I already have the axiom. Will one wire per speaker post be enough? It is 14awg.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 10:46 PM

Generally 14 gauge would be good for most of axioms speakers except over long runs with a 4 ohm speaker.If its already there why not use it?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 10:50 PM

Greg, one wire per speaker terminal is fine. Be sure to match the receiver output channels to the corresponding speaker(although the different colors should make this obvious).
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 11:20 PM

If the cable run is for one speaker I would use both.
No harm, no loss, you paid for it,why not use it?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/15/14 11:31 PM

Although it isn't entirely clear, it wouldn't appear that Greg would be thinking of using just one cable if he already had two of them installed.
Posted by: GregD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 12:46 AM

Will run three cables with four wires, one cable each for front left and right plus centre. I will try and double up two wires for each speaker post. I will let you know how I make out.
Will also post some pictures of my homemade rack soon. It contains an emotiva XPA2 and XPA5 both gen. 2, Onkyo 818, OPPO 103D, two monster power conditioners, apple tv and logitech ultimate remote, Rogers HD box, also pull out table on blum self close sliders for laptop.
Thanks everyone
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 01:04 AM

Yes, if you're definitely going to install one 4-conductor cable for each speaker, then there's no good reason not to use two conductors on each speaker terminal. Doubling 14ga conductors results in the resistance of an 11ga conductor. There's no need for this except in extremely long runs, but if you have it, use it.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 08:46 AM

well, is this so.
you would think, the voltage applied at on end sends the same current down two like wires at 14g how does this make it less resistant ?
It is the same voltage, same resistance, same amount exactly of information, just going down two 14g runs. Both leads are resisting the same.
I can see if you pealed back the sheathing and joined the two wires together you would get an equivalent of 11g though
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 10:38 AM

11 awg would have less resistance than 14 awg. I use 12 awg for all my applications, just because I like to. smile
Posted by: TroyD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 01:57 PM

exactly,

but, two 14g wires in separate sheathing carrying current and twisted together one te ends, does not make it less resistant. You still have two separate 14g wires with the same resistance carrying identical loads. Unless you peal off the sheathing and join them together.

I think it is a moot point to use the two wires, unless of course your going to bi-wire or use it to bi amp. There is no advantage to twisting the two ends together. Unless I am wrong
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 02:13 PM

Troy I cant give you a technical response , I will leave that to JohnK . I will say that electricity takes the path of least resistance, so more wire surface for the electricity to travel the least resistance. In this case ,unless these speaker wires are stupid long there will NOT be any benefit to doubling the wires. At most he will gain redundancy so if one wire fails the other will back it up. Google home made speaker wires in images you will see people braid together cat5 cable to make fancy speaker wires.

Richard
Posted by: TroyD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 07:53 PM

that's the issue there is no least resistant path, both wires are 14awg. Also, if they are twisted together on both ends it will flow down both wires with the same voltage .
It would be like tying one end together and putting it into a light socket the holding onto the other ends of the two wires in each hand. you will get a shock one both hands, not just one.

The only way your going to make it less resistant, with that wire would be to strip it , braid the whole run together into one making it bigger. That cannot be done though. Or run higher quality wire, like gold , that will get you less resistance lol.
But, I am pretty sure twisting the two ends together and running current down using both like that is no benefit at all, unless your plan is to use it as a bi-amp or Bi-wire situation.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 08:01 PM

Have a look at this article, Troy, particularly the bit titled Cable Electrical Factors and How They Affect the Sound - Colin Miller. It does in fact lower the resistance, since you are essentially creating a (very low resistance) parallel circuit.
Posted by: wilwom

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 08:03 PM

In EE 101 we learned that two identical resistances in parallel create a resistance of one half the amount. That is because the current flow divides half into each wire. R in parallel with R equals .5R. Total current flow of course is determined primarily by the impedance of the speaker. Voltage drop across the wires from end to end will drop to about half what it was with one wire.

My early EE courses were over 40 years ago; but I do think the basics still hold.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/16/14 09:43 PM

Troy, "doubling wire drops three gauges" is an accepted principle of wire technology. You're correct that completely stripping the wires and binding the conductors together would accomplish this, but you're not grasping the fact that binding them together just at each end accomplishes the same electrical result. The conductors become a single wire(including the portions not in physical contact with each other)with a combined cross sectional area equal to the sum of the areas of the previously individual wires(i.e., double the area). Since the convention in designating wire gauges is that a wire with twice the cross sectional area of another is three gauges lower, the doubled wires likewise are likewise termed a wire three gauges lower. The electrical result of doubling the cross sectional area is halving the resistance.

Again, this is a well-established procedure.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/17/14 08:24 AM

I know it's not the same exactly but the simplest I've heard it explained by a Cisco instructor was "Even if they are all the same size, 4 small pipes will drain a tank faster than two small pipes."
Posted by: GregD

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/18/14 11:39 PM

Well I doubled up the wires at the ends and everything is up and running. Will try and post some picks on the weekend of my homemade rack. Thanks guys
Posted by: jazzba

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 11:08 AM

I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.
Posted by: wilwom

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 01:52 PM

Gets my vote for most hilarious post of the week.

Originally Posted By: jazzba
I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: wilwom
Gets my vote for most hilarious post of the week.

Originally Posted By: jazzba
I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.



Maybe that's why my living room spins when I play my stereo.
Posted by: Hellcommute

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 03:28 PM

Maybe this will help, simply put:

Paralleling conductors effectively creates 2 paths for current to flow equally, halfing resistance and increasing total conductor ampacity. The same length and awg size must be used. In a manufactured cable this is maintained by default.

Resistance Primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity

If you work or live in a large building, the main distribution is fed from the utility transformer with no doubt at least one if not more paralleled "hots" per phase to decrease awg size while maintaining the ampacity rating of the circuit. Cost and ease of installation are improved big time. If you have 4 wires, it is of benefit to use all of them.

There will not be circulating currents... Unless you put your speakers in a jetted hot tub. wink
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzba
I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.


That doesn't make sense.

Edit: I missed the posts between this and the original. Still, doesn't though. As long as the wires are paired the same at each end...
Posted by: wilwom

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Originally Posted By: jazzba
I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.


That doesn't make sense.

Edit: I missed the posts between this and the original. Still, doesn't though. As long as the wires are paired the same at each end...


I think you have just been punked. That was jazzba's one and only post so far.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Axiom in wall wire? - 02/19/14 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: wilwom
Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Originally Posted By: jazzba
I wouldn't connect both wires. You want prevent circulating currents which may induce unwanted voltages and noise due to differences in resistance. While this may actually not be in effect here, the chance of it outweighs any benefit.


That doesn't make sense.

Edit: I missed the posts between this and the original. Still, doesn't though. As long as the wires are paired the same at each end...


I think you have just been punked. That was jazzba's one and only post so far.


We may have been pranked but, hopefully no one less initiated, reads this thread and see's that BS and even remotely thinks its possible or relevant. Such drivel must be dispelled so misinformation like that does not spread. People like Jazba need to get a life.