I just got my pair of Rocket 750's in yesterday, set them up and listened to a qick few songs. If anyone is interested in a full write up (after sometime) I would be happy to do this. Be warned, I am no tech and will not use sound meters, nor do I have a top of the line reciever (Outlaw 1050). My review will be honest and to the point. Ever since I came onto this board I have heard of the Rocket vs Axiom questions. Since listening to both brands is the way to go, and I needed two more speakers, I thought what the hell, lets get the Rockets. I do love the M60's and no matter what happens I will keep my Axiom line up for HT and use the Rockets for 2 channel only.
Anyway, if there is interest I will do a write up on what I hear but please keep in mind that this is a write up of Rockets top of the line vs an Axioms that is second to the M80.
See ya.
Give it a shot let us know your thoughts.
Absolutely. In order to minimize the flames, I would recommend you just make it clear (actually you pretty much did) that this is one man's personal, subjective impressions of these two speakers, NOT a review, NOT a scientific comparison, just your own assessment. You have every right to do that, and I, for one, look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Me to! I have always been curious on the 750's.
Definitely!!! give us a comparison.
i like the look of the rockets, but i am curious if the sound is comparible with M60's, and will it justify the price difference.
bigjohn
Regarding the price. I thought the same thing yet once I saw that I could get B stock for the same cost of the M60's it was a no brainer. Still working on the review but it will take sometime, I jacked up my foot playing soccer so moving speakers may be a problem.
Well....I have had the rockets in place for a little over a week now. I have them hooked up to a weak Sony reciever that I have running my 2 channel sound around the house. I just ordered up a Denon 3803 that I will hook my Axioms M60 set up to and move my Outlaw 1050 to replace the Sony.
I know, I'm lagging on getting my review into you all but I am a little nervous about the crap I will get from those that are Axiom hardcores. So far here is what I have heard.
Disclaimers...
1) I am not an audio expert and this is MY experience with these speakers. I do not know anyone at Axiom or AV123 and have never leaned in either direction.
2) I am running the M60 against the top of the line Rocket 750. It may be that a better compairison would be the M80 vs the 750 but that is for someone elses review.
3) I am not running these speakers with a "top of the line" reciever so sounds may differ with another product.
4) The room that I am listening in may differ from the room you have so please do not remind me of tonal differences in smaller or larger rooms.
5) Again, I am not an expert so please do not point out the short comings of my review. This is what I hear, you may have another experience.
Specs-
Millennia M60ti Specifications
Max Amp Power 250 Watts
Min Amp Power 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 37-22K
Freq Resp +3dB/-9dB (Hz) 27-22K
SPL in Room 1w/1m 93 dB
Anechoic SPL 1w/1m 89 dB
Impedance 8 Ohms
Woofer Dual 6.5"
Midrange 5.25"
Tweeter 1"
Dimens. (in.)(HxWxD) 37.5x9.25x15
Weight 47 lbs per
RS750:
System: Multi-way, five-driver direct-radiating system, vented enclosure with two rear-firing flared ports
Drivers: Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter, four custom 5.25\" long-throw aluminum cone woofers
Crossover: Tweeter at 3.8 kHz, progressive array, variable slope
Frequency Response: 38 Hz to 20 KHz (± 3 dB)
Impedance: 6 Ohms nominal
Efficiency: 88 dB (@ 1 watt / 1 meter)
Dimensions: 37.5" H x 15.5" D x 9" W (953 x 394 x 229 mm)
Weight: 56 lbs (25 kg) each; ship weight = 72 lbs each
I have to say that this did take some balls to post on Axioms web site because I know that I will catch some crap for it but as someone that loves HT and two channel I thought that it would give others the chance to look around at other products in the market place. Again, all speakers were run through my Outlaw Audio 1050 with a XV-S500 JVC Progressive Scan DVD player. The room is 20 x 28.
Cost-
I purchased the M60's A stock were $800.00 shipped. "B" stock are $720.00
I purchased Rocket RS750 B Stock were $980.00 shipped. "A" stock are $1500.00 + shipping.
First Impressions:
M60-
The first speakers that I picked up were the Axiom M60's. I have had these for a little over 4 mo now. I picked up the Boston Cherry to match my QS4's. All in all the speakers looked OK but then again I did not think it was that important to get something that looked like art when it was the sound that mattered.
Rocket 750-
Now after reading my comments above about not caring about the overall look of the speaker you will think that I have back tracked on that comment. The Rockets are beautiful to say the least. I purchased the "B" stock but I still cannot find anything wrong with them. My wife always complained about large floor standing speakers but when she saw the Rocket 750's even she made a comment about the look. I picked up the 750 in South American Rosewood. For the money (see costing above) this speaker looks to me like a $5,000 plus, just by the looks. It matches my older furniture to a T and they blend into the room very nicely. If I were to put the M60's in place of the Rockets my wife would not stand for it. So, if have a wife that is pickey about floorstanding speakers because they stand out then go with the Rockets. I cannot stress how nice these speakers look.
Review-
This review is for two channel only since I thought that it would not be fair to run a HT test when I have the QS4's.
I tried to get a full spectrum of music so that I could see how each speaker reacted to differing music.
CD's played.
1) The Sundays (Summertime, Folk Song)
2) Dave Matthews (Under the Table and Dreaming)
3) Amadeus Mozart, Movie Soundtrack ((Symphony No. 25 in G minor)
4) Bob Seger (Rock and Roll Never Forgets)
5) Big Head Todd (It's Alright)
On all the music listened to (except mozart) the Axioms seemed to have higher pitched vocals with the music/band coming second. At times I wanted to get up to readjust the settings thinking the treble was set too high. When a word with an S was in the song, at higher volume, it made you flinch a little. I also noted a HUGE difference in base. The RS750's really stood out. The M60's seemed to have a muffled, or lost base when a kick drum would hit where the RS 750 produced the base very nicely.
By CD- (these were notes that I jotted as I listened)
M60-
1) The Sundays
a)Summertime
High treble, horn section lost on ocasion to vocals. S's hard on the ears on occasion. Almost no base. Great vocals.
b)Folk Song
Nice Guitar seperation, vocals stand out nicely. All in all nice.
2) Dave Matthews
a)Under the Table and Dreaming
Very in your face, not in a good way. Treble too high?? Chimes a little too much. What happened to the base, kick drum. Vocals stand out nicely.
3) Amadeus Mozart, Movie Soundtrack
a)Symphony No. 25 in G minor
Great highs with very good rep of the violins, base is a little weak with very little serperation of music and sections.
4) Bob Seger
a)Rock and Roll Never Forgets
Nice main guitar again, no base, very bright, band lost to vocals.
5) Big Head Todd
a)It's Alright
Base guitar lost, no base, nice vocals, bright.
RS750-
1) The Sundays
a)Summertime
Base guitar very nice, very nice vocal blend with great horn seperation.
b)Folk Song
Great vocal with nice accustic guitar work, not in your face.
3) Amadeus Mozart, Movie Soundtrack
a)Symphony No. 25 in G minor
Violins washed a little. Great seperation in sections with amazing horns. Very nice blend of music.
4) Bob Seger
a)Rock and Roll Never Forgets
Great intro with drum and base. Again, sounds like a band not just vocal. Sometime vocals lost.
5) Big Head Todd
a)It's Alright
Base! Great drum and guitar work. Very complex. Listening to a band not just vocal. Great base guitar and horns.
So, there is what I heard in short hand. All in all you have two VERY different speakers here. In two channel I would take the RS750 because after listening to them both the Axioms were more in your face and after time my ears got a little tired. Compaired to the RS750 they were bright to say the least. I read one review that said that RS750's were like being in the 25th row of a concert where the Axioms were like being in the 3rd row. I would agree with that in that the RS750's were like being in the 10th row, right in the middle of that row so that you could hear the ENTIRE band, where as the Axioms felt as if you were in the third row, right next to the speaker set up. I love my Axioms and will not replace them anytime soon and I cannot say what the HT set up would sound like head to head. I loved how the RS750 presented you with the entire musical experience where sometimes the Axiom presented you wth the vocals in a very bright manner. I think that with the right sub you would get a much better review of the M60 but all in all I loved how the RS750 blended both the lows with the highs.
RS750- 10
M60- 8.5
Well done and I doubt you will catch any flak for that review.......... I thought it was more then fair.
lomb- i am no professional either, but what you had to say seemed to be exactly what you thought. there is nothing wrong with that.
oddly enough, the custom finishes is one of the reasons i went with the axioms. my wife wanted them to match the rest of the furniture.. and they do.
i really dig my 60's, and i am glad you dig both of your sets of speakers. everyone hears differently, and everyone has different preferences.. i think your review is fair to your likes and dislikes.. no shame in that..
bigjohn
lomb7, tactfully put. You never felt that the Rockets highs were rolled off or lacking? I remember that being described as one of their flaws. Thanks.
I think that the "rolled off or lacking" comment is because there is so much base coming from the speaker. The Axioms sounded great with Mozart, mainly because the the strings run through that piece but the M60 was weak when it needed some base backing. Again, vocals with the M60 were crisper but to my ears they were a little too high pitched. I liked the rockets because they seemed to blend the entire sound rather then just the highs.
This reminds me a little of why I went from M80's to Monitor Audio. You are saying a few of the same things. Not so much with the bass but with the highs.
May want to audition the Rockets since you are "neverhappy"
Oh I will one day. I know that for a fact as I have always been curious. When I'm curious it always happens sooner or later. For now, my Monitors are peachy!
I read that they are coming out with an RS1000. A little out of my price range $2500/pr but man do they look amazing.
Nice review. I too am a little curious about the no bass comment(s). I recently demo'd my M60's for a guy and we played a few tracks with some heavy bass, and they pumped it loud and hard. I was surprised myself at the bass output, as I generally run with my VTF-2 on, and listening to the M60's sans the sub I was expecting some weak bass, but was pleasantly surprised.
Maybe the Rockets have more of that resonant fullness that people like? As opposed to the tight accurate bass of the M60s. I've never heard any of the Rockets, but they must be pretty decent - people like them.
Hope I don't get flamed again here as this borders on a political statement (though it is highly germane to this discussion), but didn't we learn in consumer ed to make our purchasing decisions based on the social costs - as well as the personal costs - of those decisions? Does everything we buy have to come from China?
Hello lomb. I'm also a bit surprised by the lack of bass your M60s are putting out. Have you double checked your cabling to assure you have not wired your M60s out-of-phase?
If you compared both the Axioms and Rockets in the same room, then room acoustics wouldn't be a variable, however, if you tested these speakers in different rooms, then this could be a factor.
BTW, could you describe the room your M60s are in?
Very nice review.
As long as companies want to squeeze every penny possible out of every sale they make, then yes...every thing we buy needs to come from China. Show me an affordable 61" DLP TV made in the US and I'll buy it. Likewise with a new universal player. It's not the consumers fault.
I wonder if M50 vs. the Rockets would be a better comparison ? The Rockets sound like they might be closer to the M3/M40/M50 "sound" than the M2/M22/M60/M80s... (?)
The 750s do sound like interesting speakers though. Do I understand the crossover correctly -- different woofers cross over at different frequencies ?
The room I have is 20 x 28 at 8ft high . Half the room is taken up by a pool table so I listen in the 20 direction.
I was surprised a little by the base of the M60's as well. Before the test and in change over I checked to insure that everything was in phase.
NeverHappy, you mentioned that you found the same brightness as I did. What are your thoughts?
Again, do not read too much into this review. I want to stress that this is the top of the line speaker for av123. I really believe that the M80 might do better. I am hopeful that someone out there in Axiomland can do this same test because I feel that the Axiom vs Rockets is a topic that will continue to come up. Maybe someone from Denver (av123 home) can get some and test as well?
In reply to:
NeverHappy, you mentioned that you found the same brightness as I did. What are your thoughts?
I found the M80's to be a little too forward for my taste..................ok I will be honest. A lot to forward! I still have yet to hear the M60's so I can't comment on them. I did however purchase a set of M50's that I still think are just as good as the M80's but are a little more laid back. In the end I could not get the right mix of highs and lows I wanted and ended up with Monitor Audio Silver 9i's as my mains. They have all the bass I need and the highs are just right. The highs are there but are not to overpowering.
I have heard a lot of people comment that the 750's are a warm speaker. I love that! Like I said sooner or later I will try a set based on that fact alone.
BigWill... I would agree with you that it sucks to have to purchase the "Made in China" products but I started to wonder, "What components are in the speakers?". Axiom is a Canadian company so in truth I am not supporting the US much with my Axiom purchase. AV123 is a US based company but all products are made in China, so that sucks. I would bet that close to 90% of the materials that is placed into both speakers is made overseas. Axiom may be "Made in Canada" but what percentage of the materials that make up the speakers are made in Canada?
I went down this buy local road before. Being a Canuck I looked at Canada first. I went and bought a Bryston. Took the top off and found a whole lot of overseas parts! Then I tried Paradigm, same thing. It got me thinking. Is there a truly Canadian or US audio product out there? I thought that maybe the Odessey Stratos would be the one that could fly the Made In America flag and mean it. I popped the top on my amp, and that was not true either. Although I must admit I was shocked to see some parts from Canada in there!!
So is there a truly Made in Canada or Made in the good old US of A product out there in the audio world?
>>So is there a truly Made in Canada or Made in the good old US of A product out there in the audio world?
One problem we (Canada and US) have is that most of our component (resistor, capacitor, raw speaker etc.., not amp/preamp) manufacturing is aimed at aerospace and military grade. We just don't make many consumer-grade parts, ie the decent quality low priced stuff that most people buy.
Until that changes (and until more people are willing to pay a bit of a premium to cover North American salaries instead of Chinese salaries to keep jobs here) parts and a lot of finished products are going to keep coming from China. I'm just glad some companies are still designing and doing *some* manufacturing here.
I don't think it makes a lot of difference between Canada and the US since we both maintain comparable salaries and standards of living... and we sell an awful lot of stuff back and forth across the border.
L7, I suppose that I might as well join Craig and 2x6 in being puzzled by the "huge" difference in bass reported. Both measurements and listener reports indicate that the M60s have excellent bass and a kickdrum isn't really all that severe a test. One seemingly unlikely point that I've mentioned before, because it's actually happened twice here, is to make sure that the M60 woofers are actually operating by making sure that the connecting straps on the speaker terminals are tight(the 750s have none, of course).
I didn't mean to say anything disparaging about your choice to buy Rockets, lomb7, a lot of the crap I buy comes from China. Hard to avoid it.
We have an insanely large trade deficit with the Chinese. The American products that do well over there are all pirated DVDs and CDs. 300 million Chinese workers make less than $2 per day. 200 million of those make less than $1 per day. I don't want to go on (talking about China that is
).
lomb,
There are several points throughout this thread that i will make comments to, but as for your review, i thought it was quite good. By providing all the details under which you auditioned the speakers, other readers can gauge their opinions accordingly in whatever light they view your circumstances (e.g. hard walled room, smaller room, high quality receiver used, or ....etc.).
The one thing you had not mentioned and i'm curious about, was if you had setup the speakers for equivalent SPL during your listening. The difference in SPL could account for lost bass or extraordinary highs along with many other possibilities perceived as differences b/w the units.
I did notice that one of your test songs was The Sundays-Summertime. I've long suspected this particular cd was recorded 'hot'. I actually put that very song on my test disc as the one song that had such a blaring opening that it could easily distinguish 'forward' speakers from laid back models. It is indeed a piercing song when played with bright (or detailed) speakers and similar recordings will no doubt cause listening fatigue. The Sundays cd is a great example of how one's recorded music may dictate the type of speaker they would be happier buying.
As for the concern about the 750s vs the M60s instead of the M80s, price is moot and always should be in a comparison. One does not need to pair the top of the line anything against another brand top of the line. Both sets of speakers are floorstanding and that is about as far as one can go to match up speakers. Each model may have different driver numbers, crossovers, cabinet materials, bracing, weights, etc. so exactly matching anything is near impossible.
Obviously $$ do not matter as they do not equate to quality. The M80s will play louder with a slightly greater bass extension than the M60s but are otherwise equivalent. I've read many times how a reviewer looks at Axiom speakers, pairs them against say some B&W 703s, states how Axiom fares very well but the B&W still win out, but hey, B&W also costs $3k more so it is expected.
I say bunk to that. If those reviewers were blind tested w/o knowing brand or cost, i think such statements would disappear from such reviews.
Again, your post was a great look at the Rockets. I've never heard them but am quite curious to try.
Last i read this was an AUDIO forum, not a POLITICAL forum.
This whole China thing has been covered already.
Let it go.
If anyone is still having problems coming to terms with the Axiom drivers being made in China, feel free to PM me so i can AGAIN post the links where i revealed where everything else is manufactured along with general information on this made in China issue.
I have not heard of the speaker straps so that tells you that I have not tightened them. I will look into this and get back to you.
Chess who appointed you the censor who tells folks what is permissible to discuss and what is not? If you have an opinion worth posting, do it, but fight the impulse to stifle other people from expressing their's.
Hello again lomb. I agree it is a good idea to make sure all your drivers are 'firing.'
Do you have wood or tile flooring?
I find the Axiom and Michaura speakers have 'sparkling' highs, but what makes a speaker great is getting the mids right, and in this regard, Axioms come very close.
I don't mind comparing Axioms to much more expensive speakers, the fact that Axioms do so well in such comparisons is what got me to take a chance with Axioms in the first place.
I'd hope Axiom decides to upgrade their speakers' performance, expecially midrange performance. I'd hope that axiom would target some of the great speakres out there, those from JM Labs, Reference 3a de capo mm's ... might have to upgrade capacitors and resistors, point to point internal wiring of cross-over components.
Personally, I think the M3Ti is the speaker most suited to elevation to true giant killer status, in large part because there's nothing between the 6.5" driver and the amplifier. I bit more voicing, upgrading the tweeter's cap and resistor to improve integration between the tweeter and woofer, and smooth out the mids. Just a thought.
Perhaps someone made him the forum moderator and failed to send out the memo. I'd be surprised if Chess didn't mean to say "Let it go, PLEASE."
Chess you contribute an awful lot of good things to this forum. But, you've you've raised petulant sarcasm, and condescending criticism to an art form.
Please don't lose sight of the fact that this forum is not only for the regulars who've seen the same questions and threads come up again and again. It's also for the new folks who are learning about audio/video in general, and Axiom speakers specifically. They are going to ask these same things on a regular basis. And, it's our responsibility to help them as best we can rather than insult them for asking. I'm referring not only to your post above in this thread, but to your post in the
SVS or HSU? (I know, not again....) thread in the Home Theater section, which read:
I'm having deja vu here.
SVS vs. EP350?
Didn't i just post on this a couple of times this week?
Is this really another thread on it?
We are still in the months (sic)
of September no?
(Ironically, NO. We are actually in the month of October
)
If you don't expect these same questions and threads to come up again, and can't restrain yourself from criticizing when they do, it might be better if you just skipped reading those threads. It certainly would be better if you refrained from posting your criticisms thereby spoiling it for everyone else.
Shall we now begin to assassinate the character of everyone else on the forum here Ajax?
Perhaps we should start picking apart your flaws?
I value 2x6 opinion about as much as i value hairs on a rat's ass. He's a hypocrite and has been for a long time.
You talk about not stifling other's opinions and here are TWO people telling me how to moderate mine?
Pots and kettles and i'm seeing alot of black.
This is an AUDIO forum, not a political one. Take it somewhere else.
My complaint to Amie has been filed. Deal with it.
In your anger, you failed to notice that I said "Please," and "it might be better." Nobody was "telling" you what to do. They were suggestions. To see that the as the same thing as your angry, sarcastic, condescending comments only proves the point.
Unfortunately you seem to see a lot of "black" here, and waste no time telling us all about it.
You accuse us (me) of trying to stifle your "opinions." Not at all. If I were able, I'd stifle the way you present them, particularly when they are personal attacks; witness your personal attack on 2x6.
I've posted my objections to politicizing the forum. It is my opinion that such threads leave residual bad feelings, between the participants, that spill over into other topics. And, I've ASKED that it be avoided (Haven't I BigWill?). That has not happened. But, in no way would I support it's censorship.
One of the wonderful things about this forum is the freedom provided by Amie, et. al. In a thread over at the Home Theater Spot, it's owner Paul Carleton explained his impression of how the Axiom forum works to a poster who was complaining about how terrible we all are here at this forum. He said:
"The Axiom Forum operates under different rules and very little if any moderation. Axiom simply feels that unless there is something really outrageous being said, they don't get involved. Since they are running a forum where they have a vested interest they don't want to be seen taking sides which could be interpreted as protecting their product or having motives which are suspect."
I thought he said it very well, and it is my hope Amie ignores your complaint.
Chess, you seem to be a VERY angry man. And anger has even less place here than a political thread, or questions that have been asked and answered many times.
I understand this is an audio forum, chess. Politics and beer have been effectively quarantined to their respective threads. My comments about China were in specific reference to purchasing decisions of AUDIO products. I think the country of origin is as relevant here as it would be in a discussion of any product - cars, wine, chocolates.
How do you make that "I'm going to kick your ass face"?
The "China mfg" comments started as being very specific to speaker mfg, which is probably OK for the thread. A few people (including me... guilty !!) made more general "China mfg" comments, which in hindsight was a mistake.
I'm not sure how things got personal so quickly... I haven't seen much of that on this board yet (which I thought was a great credit to all of you). Maybe we should dig a hole out back and bury this thread while we're all still friends.
Now everyone shake hands or I'll turn the Yorkies loose on you...
I agree. And here I thought that I was going to get my A** handed to me regarding the thread.
To move BACK to the TOPIC. I do have hard wood floors and I am still interested in someone telling me about tightening the straps, whatever the heck that means. If I have done something wrong regarding the Axiom set up I would really like to know because as a company I prefer Axiom over the other guy plus I want my M60's working to their best potential. Also, just checked and yes, all drivers are firing.
Anyway, China can go to hell, Canada can go to hell and the US can go to hell. Does that about cover us all? Can we move on?
Lomb,
Apologies for my participation in the hijack.
If you'll look on the back of your speakers, you'll find two sets of posts on each speaker where you hook up your speaker wire You'll see a copper....uh, brass.....you'll see a metal "strap" running from one positive post to the other positive post, and another running from one negative post to the other negative post. Just be sure that the two "straps" are positioned properly, and all 4 posts are tightened to hold those straps FIRMLY. If proper contact is not made, it's possible one or more of the drivers in the speaker will be non-functioning. If you run your speakers at a reasonable volume, and put your ear up close to each driver in each speaker, and find that all are working properly, the "straps" are probably already correctly positioned and tightened.
>>I agree. And here I thought that I was going to get my A** handed to me regarding the thread.
Fair, balanced reviews are always welcome even if the results are not what we expected. We're all just a bit surprised by the "bass" comments and aren't sure what to make of them. I think everyone acknowledges that it's certainly possible for a competing speaker to go *deeper* than the M60s but the M60s are pretty flat down to where they do roll off so normally you don't hear other good speakers being described as making *more* bass than M60s.
Try talking about politics in the HT forum and you'll REALLY get your A** whupped
All posts snug as a bug.
Ajax, spotted you at av123. My review was just sent their direction.
I am just as confused as you are. I was expecting to get a pretty close contest here but the base really swung in the Rockets direction. I am still wondering if I have done something wrong in set up because of the differing views of other regarding the base of the M60's. I will continue to tinker and if things change or if the M60 just needs time to "break in" then I will retest and re-review.
Good for you. I'm sure they'll be glad you posted it. I hang out over there now and then. Trying to learn something. Din, showed up over there, too. If this keeps up they're gonna have to give us our own section.
>> I am still wondering if I have done something wrong in set up because of the differing views of other regarding the base of the M60's. I will continue to tinker and if things change or if the M60 just needs time to "break in" then I will retest and re-review.
I think we're all having a tough time coming up with good ideas for what might be wrong. A couple of things to think about :
1. M60s in particular seem to be strongly affected by distance from the rear of the cabinet to the wall behind them, possibly because of the dual ports at the back. At 8" from speaker to wall I found them boomy; at 24" from speaker to wall the bass was a bit thin; somewhere around 14-16" from back of speaker to wall was "just right" in my room.
2. Axiom speakers in general seem to work best when they are separated further than I'm used to, and also when they are pointed relatively straight-ahead rather than being toed in. If you aren't totally blown away by the "imaging and soundscape" try separating them more widely and see what happens. Don't think this will affect bass, of course, just might help to get the most from the M60s.
lomb7, M60s are not full range speakers. Have you tried both the Rockets and Axioms with a sub? I'm curious as to how they sound with a bit of assist in the bottom octave and a half.
BTW, your room sounds like it might be a bit lively with such an expanse of wood flooring and a pool table in the middle. A nice Oriental rug and a couch could help.
Chesserroo wrote:
In reply to:
I value 2x6 opinion about as much as i value hairs on a rat's ass. He's a hypocrite and has been for a long time.
You talk about not stifling other's opinions and here are TWO people telling me how to moderate mine?
Pots and kettles and i'm seeing alot of black.
This is an AUDIO forum, not a political one. Take it somewhere else.
My complaint to Amie has been filed. Deal with it.
Name calling is an immature level of discourse, Chess. Calling folks names and then running to the "teacher" is exactly what I would expect from you. Keep up the good work!
Lomb, I just QUICKLY went back and skimmed your review and the rest of the thread, and I could find no mention of this so I thought I'd bring it up.
Forgive me if I'm belaboring the obvious, but if you were running these speakers without any sub, did you ensure that they were set to "large" in your receiver's speaker menu? I assume that you did, but since I found no mention of it, I just thought I'd ask. No insult intended. Just trying to cover all the bases.
OK, we know you guys can't stand each other. Now will you both just SHUT UP ABOUT IT!
Chess, you were being condescending. 2x6, you took it personal. The end.
I appointed myself forum moderator. And I don't give a rat's ass about what you guys think about it. So there. :-P
Why is all this ringing a bell? Didn't we just go down this road not that long ago?
Can't we all just get along!!!!! :-)
As usual... the same arguments and dislikes get rehashed over and over and over again. The big arguments seem to happen all at the same time. However, there's still enough gold on these boards to stick around. Like the happiness of new owners!
In reply to:
Keep up the good work!
As always i shall.
Since when is filing a complaint with a forum administrator an infantile thing to do? It is my right (for all those standing on the 'freedoms' soapbox this week).
Perhaps 2x6, you are still smarting from
this summation of YOUR past humanitarian approach on the forums?
Or possibly still sobbing from someone else who
called you a horrible, but far more fitting name that obviously bothers you?
Give it up already. Your old tired quips are boring.
Ajax, just checked and speaker config was set to "small". I just set them to Large and I will listen to the M60's again. You may have found the base problem. I'll keep you updated.
Woo-hoo !!
Before you start the next round of tests, could I ask you to check how much distance you have between the back of the M60s and the wall ?
Thanks,
JB
Wow, that could certainly do it! But was it set to small for the Rockets, too?
AHA! This should be interesting. Lomb, there's nobody on this board who ain't bupped the puppy (goofed) at one time or another
. Don't worry about it. Just give the M60s another shot, see how they do, and let us know.
In reply to:
Nobody was "telling" you what to do. They were suggestions.
Define what a suggestion is Jack.
It is by definition a concept of how one tells someone else what to do.
I recall 'editing' one of your posts when you first came onboard and you were not so happy so much so that i apologized. Now you are suggesting how to edit mine and that is the bottom line.
Pots and kettles Jack.
It is not any different.
And who is this "us" you are referring to? This conversation is between you and I.
As for 2x6, don't make judgements until you know all the facts. His ignorance goes way back, long before you arrived and i'm not the only one who was annoyed by it, not by a long shot. Check out the recently posted history as PART of what he is so 'innocent' of before tossing those stones.
In reply to:
Chess, you seem to be a VERY angry man. And anger has even less place here than a political thread, .
About as annoyed as you were when i told you how to post Jack?
Pots and kettles.
If there were no politics being spoken of, none of this would have started.
Censorship?
Get off the damn soapbox already and go wave the flag somewhere else to someone who cares.
You will get no sympathy here if your precious politics thread is frozen or even deleted. I see no loss and certainly no use in an audio forum. Taking it somewhere more appropriate, like to a political forum website, would have been the courteous thing to do. But hey, i guess that is expecting way too much b/c gee, we wouldn't want to censor such an amazing conversation. [/rolling eyes]
Leave it to Jack to point out the obvious
.It will be interesting to see the new set of results.
Lomb7 don't sweat the mistake we ALL made set up errors haven't we guys.
OK, as the new guy here I have no right to interfere, but....
If you two don't stop it right now, I'm going to order my Axioms just so I can flood the forum with my new-found wonders upon reciept!
Don't make me do it, 'cuz I will!
(if my wife lets me)
I'm pissed about this one guys. Sorry. My wife is laughing at me as I run around the house cursing with a measuring tape. OK, speakers set to "large" and yes both speakers were tested in "small". I have the speakers set a 8.5 feet apart, 9 inches from the back wall.
Enjoy! I'm pondering messing with placement today, too. But not quite as severely as you are...
I think we all,at least I do ,get that reaction from the wife when the measuring tape comes out.I think mine said something like "what the h*ll are you doing?" she thinks its crazy.
"OK, as the new guy here I have no right to interfere, but.... "
You have EVERY right to interfere here. You and I are just as important as everyone else. It's becoming childish, but its none of my business so I choose not to tell them anything.
Let's hope a new thread is started for the bit** fest. Maybe they could call it, "No, I'm right, your wrong!!!"
Good review, and hopefully setting the speakers to large will provide a better review for both speakers. Also enjoy your posts on the av123.com forums, and hope to see you post there more often, just as Ajax does.
I am still meaning to go up to Ajax's and hear his M60's, but a crappy economy means I am working every day of every week at the family business.
I used to post here when I was looking at upgrading, and Axioms/Rockets where the speakers I was most interested in. I intended to post here even after getting Rockets and did for a little bit, but I was driven off by chessero, and it is sad to see he is still up to his same tactics. I very much prefer the av123.com forums, people actually have differing opinions without some sarcastic/jerk poster jumping into them. It is refreshing to say the least. Chessero you are an angry person, and it may take you far in life, but you will most likely be alone when you arrive there. Take 10 seconds, breath in and out, and let it go.
Ladies and Gents, we have M60 base. I feel much better now. I was thinking about posting a new thread so that we could have it devoid of the trash talk but I want too point out my "Large vs Small" mistake so that others can learn from it. I still consider myself a rookie in HT and I am positive others out there will make or have made the same mistake I have.
One question. Do you all want me to re review with my Outlaw 1050 or should I wait to hook up the Denon 3803 when it comes in?
>>One question. Do you all want me to re review with my Outlaw 1050 or should I wait to hook up the Denon 3803 when it comes in?
I think we're all looking forward to at least an update on your first impressions. I haven't heard an Outlaw 1050 myself but it seems like the biggest complaint is just lack of decoding formats in the DSP code... that shouldn't affect a stereo test particularly if no sub.
Maybe at least a "light touch" for now and start a new thread with more details when the Denon comes in ??
I told you I had enough, and, like a good parent, I don't make false threats:
I went ahead and ordered the M60s. Your quibbling just sent me over the edge, and I had to do it.
Now stop arguing, or I'll order the surrounds or center or sub, dammit! I can be just as stubborn about this as you two can!
Hey Jimmy. Nice to see you. You're welcome to hear the Axioms anytime. However, the rational among us are trying to let the off topic crap drop so we don't inflict in on the innocent.
Lomb, a new thread would be good so we can let this one, with your error and my unwise honesty die.
New thread............good idea.
Noted and will be done. I will shoot for Monday.
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Wow. That was not very nice at all, chess. I've learned much about audio and audio myths from you, but you certainly are lacking in tact.
I see absolutely no problem in discussing China, as that country relates to Rocket speakers, here on this board. It is certainly as legitimate for me to talk about China as it is for you to reprimand forum members for leaving their audio equipment on stand-by; and otherwise advancing your extremist environmental agenda.
When you point your finger at someone you have three more pointing right back at yourself.
BTW, I appreciated the reminders to conserve electricity. OUT.
lomb7, I think that once you start listening to the M60s with your receiver sending a full range signal to the speakers, you will find that the mids will sound much 'fuller' as well. We're all rookies, whether we know it or not. Welcome to our little forum and enjoy those beautiful speakers!
BTW, I have a very good friend who has a pair of M60 like Michaura M665s up front and a pair of M22 like Michaura M55s in the back, driven by an Outlaw 1050 (bass assist from a 15" Dahlquist PDQ1500). His system is in a large A Frame living room on top of a mountain down in San Diego county. His system sounds fantastic! I like that Outlaw 1050 very much - a great value and a great effort from the folks at Outlaw. Nice match with Axioms!
I egarly await a 2nd review of the rockets vs the axioms.
I think chess is just misunderstood.
...or maybe not
I would like to see the updated version of the M60 review too.
Sorry guys. It is going to have to wait a little bit. just ripped up my drive way so that is the #1 thing to do. I also need to move my Outlaw 1050. Just got a Denon 3803. 1050 is moving to 2 channel work. I will get to it asap.
Just listen to em in the same room at least. I was very interested in Rocket before I finnaly decided I'd prolly prefer Axiom.
the only thing that will change with this review set up is that I will learn from my mistake and set speakers to large. I think the wife is going to some "all girl" party this Sunday and is bringing our son with her. So, at half time I will give it a go.
WOW!!! Here we go again. By the way I don't know what happened to my old password, so my user name changed just so I can add my $0.02 to this topic.
I once posted here, few months ago, seeking a question and was mocked by people that 'know it all' here.
First of all, to everyone that says that Axioms are made in CANADA....AXIOM components are MADE IN CHINA!!!! Just like Rockets.
I would make this illegal to put stickers that say made in Canada on them. THEY ARE ASSEMBLED in Canada.
Rockets are completely manufactured in China, and AXIOMS are put together in no man's land, up north close to North Bay probably for $7 an hour by people that can't find a job anywhere around there. There are no jobs there.To this day they DO NOT have a showroom there at their 'manufacturing' site.
Yes the Rockets are made in China, but you get better value for the money.
My previous post was pretty nice, and I got flamed....and ended up getting Rockets. WHY??? Because I'm sick of the lies that people are being feeded here.
Done. I'm out.
WTF?? Value is one of the most subjective qualities of audio. How can you categorically say the Rockets provide greater value?
I certainly hope you are done, and out.
So if I got you right the Rockets are a better value because they are manufactured in China versus the Axioms which are assembled in Canada? How exactly do you come to that conclusion? I'm not picking on you at all I'm just looking for some idea as to your rational. I actually agree with most of your post and I do agree that there are more then a few members here who can take the high road and basically shove there opinion down your throat but I also don't think it's fair to paint everyone here with the same brush.
As for your Canadian worker crack, that is just plain stupid and you know it. Did minimum wage in the US go up? If your going to make fun of the wages in Canada, you best be prepared to take a look in your own back yard!
Canadians kick ass and everyone knows it.
I never "feeded" anyone a lie around here, and I'm sorry (really) that you didnt have a pleasant time on this board.
First of all, you are wasting everyone's time by posting your Bull sh*t economics for dummy's opinion here. Just save it. (I can't believe I'm replying to your ignorant post)
Lies? What lies? It's a known fact that Axiom drivers are made in Asia. It doesn't bother me too much, if they where made in North America these speakers would cost a fortune and therefore defeat the bang for your buck business model. I don't believe Dell has a showroom either and it's one of the most successful Internet based company's out there. Does Rocket have a showroom? I doubt it..
You know what, I think this is the guy that started to go off the deep end about Streem speakers. His grammer and manner are the same. Regarding where they are made... who really cares. Both brands rock and to be that crazed to the point of insult because of SPEAKER is childish. I am active on both AV123 and Axioms chats and those that really love and care about speakers respect other products equally. In all my time here and at AV123 I have NEVER been disrespected but then again I have never spouted off at the mouth like you. So I say that you were flamed in the past because you shot off at the mouth and this is not the forum for that. I love my M60's and I love my RS750 sigs but in the long run they are just speakers and I think you should take a step back and think about that fact.
Here's smart guys original post
From the famous MarkB..
"Has anyone heard and compared the M60ti's to Streem's FS-808? Streem is a new Canadian direct marketing speaker maker. I would like to know the sound quality differences between Axiom's M60ti's and the Streem FS-808. The 808's have dual 8" woofers. Do they pump more bass? Is it clear or muddy?
What about the mid and upper ranges? Do the 808's compare to Axiom's in terms of sound quality/clarity? The 808's are less expensive. Do they sound cheap, too?
Streem's get rave reviews on their site. So do Axiom's. Has anyone here compared the two manufacturers? If so, please give me the lowdown.
Waiting with clipped breath."
Or as we all found out he changed his name to- MTNBKR
Oh NO.............did you just say STREEM? I'm having flashbacks and I don't like it at all!
I know the feeling. Right when I read his post I thought to myself that he sounded VERY familiar.
Thanks Craig. As you know, I too post over at the av123 forum (I maintain a low profile and act as if I were a guest in someone else's home). I've always been treated well. And, much like here, the only people I've seen ill treated have been the very few who, like this turkey, never learned how to behave. A bad upbringing is my guess. I can assure you he does NOT represent the normal av123 member. And, in fact, I'd be surprised if he is a regular there.
There's always a downside to free speech...
Nice cottage country around Dwight, ON actually.
Enjoy your Rockets, I hope they don't feeded you any lies.
Bren R.
Unless Ian and Amie build the speakers themselves, Axiom does create jobs in Canada, right?
Also, one of the reviews of the new Axiom subs said something like, "No cheap Chinese baskets here," in reference to the new drivers in the subs. Sounds like the new subs have domestically sourced drivers? Maybe there will be a new line of speakers with drivers from the same source?
I'm sure it will affect the price, but it still would be nice to see. We all complain about the economy and then run around buying foreign crap (I'm guilty, too
).
From a labour standpoint...
Creating a job isn't a great accomplishment.
Creating a job that pays a living wage in a standard 40 hour week with benefits and a pension - that's an accomplishment.
Bren R.
Any job - even one that is "beneath you" - is preferrable to no job. I have no idea what the jobs at Axiom pay, but it has to be better than what Rocket pays their Chinese workers. Even if Axiom paid minimum wage now, the eventual success of the company would certainly trickle down to the employees in the form of increased wages and benefits.
In reply to:
Any job - even one that is "beneath you" - is preferrable to no job.
An antiquated position still held by a lot of generations past. Basic economics prove it wrong now though. Minimum wage is below the poverty line in most industrialized countries, and no matter how little a person makes, the cost of living doesn't have graduations down that low. It still costs $X for one person to live, $Y for a couple to live, $Z for a single mother of one to live, etc... that "top up" money comes from the social program system. Feel like you're taxed to death? Make sure you're not wage-sharing with a corporation.
In reply to:
Even if Axiom paid minimum wage now, the eventual success of the company would certainly trickle down to the employees in the form of increased wages and benefits.
I'd rather stay in the hypothetical - I'm not sure what Axiom pays either. But "trickle down economics"? I haven't even heard a politician try to resurrect that dead dog in the past 15 years! The basic premise is it works like a shingled roof - the more water you pour on the top shingle, the more eventually reaches the bottom shingle. The difference is, a shingle doesn't decide how much of it's water it's going to "bless" the lower courses with.
Wow, I feel like I'm back in the 80s when governments had to find ways of explaining how corporate welfare (see Pacific Lumber/Maxxam, Frito-Lay (& subsidiaries Taco Bell/KFC), GM, Ford, Boeing, Lockheed) was a good boost for the economy. Now they don't even need to try to rationalize it. Hell, even the compensation packages to families who lost relatives in the attacks on the WTC buildings include a clause preventing lawsuits against the airlines, government sets a new precedent (never before have they stepped in to compensate victims of crime) and it directly benefits the airlines.
AFDC (Aid For Dependant Corporations) is something most Americans don't even know they're paying for, though they'll complain mercilessly that they don't want social aid for the needy. It's a matter of
the bum of the rods and the bum on the plush.
"Uh, hey... how does a 30 billion dollar bailout for a privately owned trillion dollar corporation from government sources make any financial sense."
'It's good for the economy'
"Oh, well, then... sorry I even asked... carry on!"
Bren R.
You go, Bren!
In Solidarity,
Brother Tom
ps - Tech_Pro, Pro_Tech, MarkB, etc. What is it Ken says? Don't feed the trolls. Anybody betting on whether newbie can really stand to keep silent?
Take it to the politics thread, boys.
He'll show up as ProMarkinBecher.
Sorry, truthfully it wasn't meant to go in that direction, but once you get started...
My apologies for filibustering.
Bren R.
Maybe we need to start an int'l political economy thread where the "everything sucks" Marxists and the "Oh my God, my life is better than that of ALL my forebears" Liberals can duke it out.
An entry level job is better than no job. It gives one hope for better things. As a teacher, if I told all of my graduating students to not accept any job that pays less than $40K or lacks benefits, I'm afraid they would never be employed.
We don't know what poor is anymore.
I also have an Outlaw 1050, and I'm running M80's. With the Outlaw the bass response was pretty soft. A freind let me borrow hi Aragon 4004, 2 x 200w amp. I didn't know what I was missing out on until I used the new amp. It was a huge difference, solid powerful bass. So I went out and bought myself an Aragon on the used market, it's an old model but still highly respected. I still use the Outlaw to power all the surround channels.
Maybe the Axiom's are more power hungry than the Rocket, hence the differences you are hearing?
I do not think that is the case. I am sorry I have not had time to re write the review, things got a little crazed here. This weekend I am going to change out my Outlaw with a new Denon 3803. I looked through the manual and feel very unqualified for the job. the great thing about Outlaw is that you could call and they will walk you through the entire set up. Anyway, once the denon is in place I am going to use it to listen to both again.
I would be very curious to here your thoughts comparing the two speakers with the same gear that you used before, now that you have the base management on the AVR set correctly. I himm’d and hawed for weeks between the M80’s and 750’s before settling on the M80’s. I have a pretty long string on the stereo board asking which to go with. I was going to buy both, and send back the looser, but just couldn’t eat the shipping costs. So I went with the M80’s.
I’m waiting for Rocket 1000’s in B stock now. The M80’s will go to the HT (replacing the Bose system) and the 1000’s will stay in the great room for stereo / music.
The 1000's look great but the cost is a little high. B stock should save some though. It may be a chore driving those beasts.
I doubt they'ld be as hard as the M80's. The 1000's are a six ohm speaker, while the M80's are four. I agree, 2700 bucks is too much for me, but I bet B stock will be around 1800 or less, which makes them more atractive seeing how I wouldn't need a sub.
If the efficiency rating of the RS1000 is the same as the rest of the Rocket line up it would be 88db.The M80s even though they are a 4 ohm speaker are rated at 95db which is quite bit more efficient.It looks to me like the Rockets would need more amp power to reach the same db level as the M80s.
I think the 1000's have an onboard amp.
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=46.1
Yup. The 8" woofer (NOT subwoofer) is powered by an amp built into the speaker.
Even with an amp on board the differences in efficiency ratings 88db compared to 95db the lower rating would still need more amp power to reach the same levels as the higher rating.You would also still be driving a 6 driver speaker (at 88db) not counting the self powered 8 inch woofer.
The Rocket RS1000 is a beautiful speaker.
I agree, it is a nice set up but for that amount of $$, i'm passing. Maybe "B" stock if they give me credit for the 750 sigs.
I think they have a trade in program where you can trade in your 750s for the 1Ks. Don't know how much the allow yoou for the 750s, but, if you're really interested, you should give them a call to find out. I know a bunch of the 750 owners on the forum are trading in their 750s for the 1Ks.
Yoy are right again Jack.Heres what Mark says about the trade in allowance.
"At the same time, I’ve wanted to drive home a point about “The Rocket Sound” and to do this properly the ONLY way I could come up with was for anyone that wanted to borrow the speakers should be able to do so (I’m speaking mainly of the RS 750 here) and experience our sound for themselves. So… in part one could say I’m serving myself (our company and YOU) by allowing for a complete dollar-for-dollar trade in of your 750’s on the 1K’s… and you would be right on all three counts"
.
The only issue is that I got my 750 sigs "B" stock for about $900 with shipping. To pay for shipping (both ways) any pay for the delta between the two speakers, we are still looking at a chunk of change. I was going to wait to hear them in my area before I do anything. If I did go with the 1K I would think about moving my M60's to 2 channel and sell off my QS4's. That is one upgrade my wife would notice and I would catch some crap over. We'll see though
$2799.00 for the 1000's! Dam that is a lot of cash. At that sort of price I don't think the Axiom vs. Rocket debate will happen that much anymore. If you ask me, Rocket just priced themselves into a whole new category and should be compared to speakers in that range. I hate to say it but I have yet to hear a self powered, side firing (Bass) tower I would own. I have had a few from Boston Acoustics VR series to Def Tech and I thought they all were boomy, sloppy etc when it came to bass vs. a stand alone good quality sub. I'm not saying the Rockets will be but I have always loved the looks of the 750's and have thought long and hard about trying a pair but I doubt I will ever have the urge to try the 1000's. I'm also guessing that these speakers are going to be real fussy to place. I'm sure the good folks at Rocket might disagree with that but I'm fairly sure just based on the design that they will be.
I can keep yapping here but I don't want people to think I'm slamming these speakers as I'm not. I'm slamming the design and nothing else. As for looks, the Rockets are still one of the better looking speakers out there!
If anyone in here does upgrade and wants to dump there 750's, let me know.
I know there are a few on audiogon for a fair price. Also, people will be trading in their 750's for 1K's so watch their B stock page.
I did take a peek at Audigon but the ones I saw everyone wanted over $800.00 a pair. I can get them direct from AV123 for that (B Stock). I'm in no rush. If I came across a pair at the right price I would buy them and add them into a 2 channel system or something.
You know you little punks who don't have the guts to take me on in the forums STOP pm'ing me when you disagree with something I have said!
I guess I should explain. I made the post about the 1000's and some little punk goes and PM's me telling me the Rockets rule and the usual kiddy crap and that I'm an ahole etc etc etc. Jeeeez buddy, read my post. I didn't cut up squat. If you can't discuss it like a big boy, go back to your bottle and leave those of us alone who can!
sounds like that A## that did the streem post is back
On the Rckets website it says the 750s that will be traded in are going to be offered for $750 to $800 a pair.I believe thats about the same as they offer in B-stock.
Update.I would like to see one.
Me three!
Mike
Are we talking about a follow-up review from lomb7 comparing Rockets to M60s ? If so then add me to the list. There is a gentleman from Oman on another thread who would also probably find the comparison VERY useful since his shipping costs are probably higher than all of ours put together.
My fingers and "la la la la"s are primed and ready. Bring it on!
In reply to:
Are we talking about a follow-up review from lomb7 comparing Rockets to M60s ?
Yes thats what I was talking about.
I have m60's powered by a denon 4802r avr. my system is in a room 20x14x8.5 with laminent flooring, leather furniture and a Christmas tree.
I am expecting a little brightness with this layout, but with the sub and my ability to alter the tone i have not found much of a problem with highs.
But while we wait for the 'new' review by lomb7, I'll run my m60's on pure direct (denon's way of purely running the fronts) and review some music like g'n'r , floyd, ect.
Only for my benefit
with my room and the music I'll choose it should be "bright" what I want to see.... is if I can adjust the tones on the receiver to copensate.....
I WILL be honest, even though i've already stated how happy I am with these speakers.
back shortly......
Yesterday, as I said I would experiment in my house for the betterment of anyone who cares. (btw I am no expert, but I do love my music).
Oddly enough my denon 4802r, when in pure direct ( fronts only.... no video, surround, ect.) did not allow me to adjust the treble or bass. I would have to put it on 2-ch stereo to use the tone adjustment.
I sampled many cd's and some dvd concerts. (i'll only metion a few.) Now let's understand that I am not comparing... I'm only giving my 2 cents to this discussion of no bass and listening fatigue.
The speakers do sound a little bright on "SOME" cd's and mp3's played loud. But on other's the so called brightness was more like clarity. For example on the dvd concert by the eagles, hotel california would send chills down my spine..... the acoustic guitar and the vocals were crisp, clear with no "fatigue" to the ears at all. But an old motley crue, or guns and roses cd the highs were quite noticable. Is this due to the recording technique or the type of music I'm not sure..... A song like expedition sailor, by kim mitchhell, was awesome and the I would not want to lose the clarity of the highs. It seemed to me that the heavier rock music, on cd's or mp3, were the culprits of the the brightness. Music on dvd concerts sounded much better...... maybe there is something to "sacd" and "dvd-a". I wish I had one to listen to because I do have a player. ( but that type of recording is meant for 5.1 not 2.0)
Anyways as far a bass goes there seemed to be alot of it, especially if you listen to music with alot of bass in it.
Off of the pearl jam 10 album the start of "why go" shook the floor boards over here. Motley crue "beauty" off of generation swine literally moved my pant cuffs. There were more but I think you can tell that "I" think there is plenty of bass coming from the m60's.
I have been though moving away from my cd and mp3 collection in favour of the 5.1 concert dvds..... if there were only more good ones.
In conclusion....... I wouldn't want to lose the highs on a great guitar solo like on "shine on you crazy diamond" (Roger Waters in the flesh dvd) but when it comes to hard rock cd's I am definitly adjusting the treble. I may try the 1.8 ohm resistor, but I don't want to lose the highs I just want to tame them.
Does the rocket have a powered woofer? Or just a bigger one? Because if it makes the m60 seem like it has no low end it must really BOOM!
Just my humble opinion, and I'm looking forward to your updated audition on the rocket vs. the m60
later
Thanks warfer21. I too am finding similar results with my M60's since recieving them a couple of weeks ago. My conclusions are pretty well the same...the M60's will sound wonderful with well recorded music and can be quite nasty with some poor old recordings ( don't understand this...?) or hottly mixed new recordings. Some albums are even a mix, with some tracks sounding great and others not. Given this though I too could never think of parting with the incredible clearity and sweetness that I have experienced with the M60's using a GOOD recording. Its just incredible!
From my perspective, I just don't understands people's description of Axiom's as bright, to me they're not bright, they're accurate and detailed. Why throw out the baby with the bath water? Keep the speakers and get a better recording.
I wonder if the same people would call the B&W 703's reviewed
here as bright. This quote about the 703's pretty well sums up my experience with the M60's.
In reply to:
The 703s are a very revealing speaker. This is a fantastic attribute, one that some of the best speakers in the world possess. Yet this can be an Achilles heel if the majority of your music collection consists of poorly recorded music. If the best recorded piece of music you own is Ted Nugent’s Cat Scratch Fever, you may end up buying a new player along with some new recordings, but isn’t that the idea behind getting a top-notch pair of new speakers?
This has been exactly my experience with the M60's
Given the 703's looks, reputation and price I doubt any would complain about its "brightness". Yet the Axioms, relatively unknown, alot cheaper, and absent from the "High-End" botique dealers gets the label. Hmmmm
Thanks for the input wafer. Cheers, Mike
Sorry guys, I know that I have been a slacker of late on my re-review.
I am going to make this fairly short as I do not want to be jumped upon. Again, I have to remind all of you that I am still just a newbie at all of this so please take my comments with a grain of salt. I have also found that audio is like wine. To some a $1K + bottle of wine will not be to their liking where a $20.00 bottle will be great. Listen to whatever you are looking at purchasing even is you have to pay return post.
After Ajax pointed out the mistake I made with my last review I went back and set the M60's to large in 2 cha. Big differance. The base came out like I had not heard it before and it made the listening much more enjoyable. When compaired to the the RS750's, for me, the Rockets still take it. With my new found base in the M60's I have to say that the detail was much more pronounced but I found it a little harsh at other times. With that being said, I am going to move my M60's into a 2 cha setting, keep the RS750's as my living room 2 cha setting and pick up as set of Rocket 850's for my HT.
Guys, all in all I love both speakers. If you asked me to pick one right now I could not. I love the fact that both are direct suppliers, cutting out the middle man and that both make a product far superior then anything in the prce range. I will keep both for a long time and be happy with that choice. Again, do not rely on my review. Please go to someones house and take a listen. If you are too far away or do not have someone nearby then read as much as you can on both forums and go with your heart.
Thanks for the effort lomb7, your input is much appreciated!
Your experience to me confirms what I came away with after doing my research...that both are great speakers (and companies) that offer a different listening experience which will appeal differently to different folks.
You're fortunate enough to beable to enjoy both!
Thanks again, Mike
We just couldn't figure why the 60s would be lacking in bass because our experience with them had been so different. Nobody can, or at least nobody should, berate you for preferring one over the other. Mike said it all just fine. Thanks for getting back to us.
So Craig, if I got this right, you have the best of all worlds with Axioms AND Rockets. Good for you!!!
Your wine analogy is perfect and it's always a good thing to remind folks about that phenomenon from time to time. I certainly appreciate the info you provided and I believe that the more you hear, know and understand, the better the choices you make.
Thanks for the feedback. I am sorry I did not go into more depth. As I mentioned before, what one hears is not what another will hear. So, instead of going into very fine detail I put down what I prefered. It always make me think about those that write opinions about speakers that are so indepth that truthfully I find it hard to even understand. With each person having differing feelings, and hearing regarding speaker sound I find some reviews hard to swallow. Some even come across as the end all be all of reviewers.
The greatest thing about my setup(s) is that if I want to change out the Axioms with the Rockets (or the other way around) I can. I'm one happy Axiomite/Rocketeer!
I will tell you this, my wife continues to ask me, "We need another set of speakers...why?"
Up for sale, Klipse 9se's..