Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern

Posted by: GaryG

Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 02:49 PM

I recently demoed the Epic 60 Axiom Speaker set paired with a SVS PB1-ISD Sub driven by a Denon 3803 receiver at an Axiom Owner's place. I really liked everything about this system till I demoed the Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene. With his setup the tap sounded more like DUB-DUB instead of TAP-TAP. I hope you readers will understand what I am trying to point here.

Was this sound because of the SVS sub or the Axiom Speakers? One of the professional reviews I read on Axiom does say that Axiom speakers cut-off some frequencies and some (very-very few) of the posts I have read on SVS also do say that SVS produces just a blob of sound with no notes. Unfortunately I couldn't take up any more time of that owner (who I don't know personally) that day to really try to find the culprit and nor do I want to bother that owner again. I am in the market for both speakers and subwoofer and am sure one of this in his system was removing the definition of the Tap sound. So, I am hoping current owners can point out which component was at fault here.

Thanks in advance.
Gary
Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 02:54 PM

I don't recall it sounding like "tap-tap" myself. Though I haven't watched it in quite some time. I recall it being more of a HUGE "doom-doom". I know it shook the heck out of my house.


Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:01 PM

I have watched Nemo a number of times with my system and Denon 2805, I'll have to watch it again, not real sure what tap tap scene your referring to? I guess I have never heard of Axiom's cutting off frequencies, unless your referring to a crossover setting for the main/sub settings? I am utterly impressed with the sound of this combination.


Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:05 PM

What other systems have you heard this scene with? What did is sound like on them?


Posted by: ringmir

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:06 PM

When I played that scene in my living room, it sounded like darla's "tap" was more like "the footsteps of doom". I'm pretty sure the scene is designed to be thundering and frightful, like it might sound underwater to tiny ears if someone tapped hard on the glass wall.
Posted by: curtis

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:27 PM

got to remember....that is how the fish were supposed to be hearing it.
Posted by: oldskoolboarder

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:46 PM

Yeah, on my m22's/VTF2, it's more like BOOM! BOOM!
Posted by: WhatFurrer

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:53 PM

On my M60's with SVS 20-39 PC+, its "DOOM! , DOOM!"...and stuff falls off the walls...

Not any more...after using Quake Secure

Great for Demo's!

WhatFurrer
Posted by: bigjohn

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:55 PM

gary- i believe you are thinking of the 'tap,tap' simply in the description of the scene.. she is 'tapping' the glass. i assure you, it isnt supposed to sound like a 'tap'. it is supposed to be a BOOM, or DUB as you call it. even with my mid-grade vega, it shakes the house.

i think you may be confusing your expectations with whats actually on the soundtrack.

bigjohn
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 03:57 PM

I'd agree with the other posts; what makes the Darla Scene so spectacular for HT/Sub demo is the tremendous amount of very low frequency energy. It don't think it is *supposed* to sound like "tap tap". Like Curtis said, your vantage point is within the tank.
Posted by: GaryG

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 04:15 PM

Just to clarify my question: With his setup there was no typical glass tap sound. That is, if I wasn't watching the TV & didn't know that this movie was playing, I wouldn't have been able to make out if somebody was tapping on a glass bowl or if somebody was knocking on some other surface. After that experience, I do take the Finding Nemo disk whenever I am auditioning other systems at audio shops. Some may have not been as powerful (/thunderous/room-shaking/what-ever-you-want-to-call-that) as that Axiom-SVS combo, but most of them did reproduce the distinct glass tap note.

Maybe it was just some wierd setup issue or something at his place, but I wanted to get feedback from other Axiom/SVS owners as to what they hear in this scene. And since I am not finding any other such system owners in Chicago area, I am not able to do another audition.

Thanks,
Gary
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 04:16 PM

In reply to:

got to remember....that is how the fish were supposed to be hearing it.


I wonder how they know what it would sound like to the fish. I have visions of a sound guy forcibly being held submerged in a big fish tank while one of his cohorts taps on the glass.
Posted by: MrBill

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 04:54 PM

In reply to:

like it might sound underwater to tiny ears if someone tapped hard on the glass wall.


Fish don't have ears, then have something that is called "lateral lines". Look at a typical aquarium fish, you'll see a line that starts at their head and goes all the way to their tail. Because of these lateral lines, fish hear very well and tapping on aquarium glass very likely sounds like an explosion to them!

By the way, the Darla Tapping scene is by far the most thunderous test I've seen of my PC-Ultras so far!

- Bill

Posted by: Misfit_Toy

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 05:27 PM

I must not have my sub calibrated very well...the more I watch the tap scene the less I'm impressed. To me there are a lot more scenes that rattle me in this movie than this scene. Just my take really though.
Posted by: Misfit_Toy

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 05:30 PM

BTW, I'm an Axiom/SVS owner. I'd say the doom, doom sounds accurate. Just not as rump shaking as other parts is all I was saying.
Posted by: bigjohn

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 05:31 PM

i can agree misfit.. the 'tap' scene is just so memorable cause she taps over, and over, and over, and over.. so the numerious BOOMS, BOOMS, BOOMS kinda stick in your head.. to me, the lowest bass is when the whale makes one of his grunts.. its kinda of a slow, lazy grumble-roar.. its as impressive, if not more so, than the tap scene.

people say the depth charges on U-571 are very impressive also.. havent seen that yet..

bigjohn
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 05:37 PM

Great movie... even though I didn't have my setup when I saw it!
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 05:50 PM

In reply to:

I wonder how they know what it would sound like to the fish. I have visions of a sound guy forcibly being held submerged in a big fish tank while one of his cohorts taps on the glass.



Guy would have been either Teamster or IA... so he would have been snarling while he did it... and gotten 3x scale.

Bren R.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 06:02 PM

In reply to:

Guy would have been either Teamster or IA... so he would have been snarling while he did it... and gotten 3x scale.


Hell, if he was gettin' 3x scale I'd a thought he'd be smilin' not snarlin'.
Posted by: DZ_Gillespie

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 06:36 PM

In reply to:

I know it shook the heck out of my house.



Nice analogy, spiffnme! From the perspective of the fish in the tank, that's probably what they would say about Darla's tapping too!
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 06:41 PM

My kids have this DVD so I went and put it in and booted them outside for a minute. It's a DOOM DOOM DOOM all the way. I honestly think it was hitting every corner of my house.

Anyone got a guess as to what that DOOM DOOM is going down to? ie: 20khz, 18khz etc
Posted by: curtis

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 06:56 PM

its not that low....probably around 35hz.
Posted by: CosmicVoyager

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 08:26 PM

I just un-boxed a set of RBH t3's and calibrated the customers system. WOW! This system is killer.
Anyway, I played the Darla Scene and it is no doubt DOOM, DOOM AND DOOM all the way. The subs, yes two of them are Earthquake Supernova MKV 15's (overkill IMO).


Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 08:46 PM

ya know, tleigh's comment (affirming others' experience, including mine) makes me wonder if a system that makes a "tap" noise in that scene is really bottoming-out or distorting in some way. I was considering room acoustics as a culprit, but there are too many data points from reputable systems here to dismiss the idea that a "hard" attack in that scene is attributable to driver distress rather than intended soundtrack.
Posted by: CosmicVoyager

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 09:19 PM

I don't want to sound harsh or anything but the system sounds like it needs recalibrating. I've heard this sound track more than I like on many systems other than Axioms and it has the same artificial sound (it is a cartoon you know) on some very reputable loud speakers. I have M80's and it gives me the same DOOM, DOOM AND DOOM sound effect. It is no doubt the sound track.

I hope this helps

Tom



Posted by: Daphoid

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 10:12 PM

It's not supposed to tap, if you're hearing a tap, that's in correct. The whole point of that scene is to feel the fear that being a tiny little fish does when someone huge like that bangs on the tank. Also when you hit a panel of glass it will vibrate and make moe a "DUB DUB" sound as you called it, try hitting a big wood table that isn't very solid, same thing. Because of Darla's size to the fish, a tap wouldn't resonat as well. Also it's a underwater sound which would distort the sound even more. Finally a "tap" sound is produced by the finger nail usually, and a hyper child wouldn't have that much control of their hand, they usually poke things with the finger.

Cheers!

- D
Posted by: CosmicVoyager

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 10:19 PM

I agree. We would all hear the tap tap on the outside of the tank and the Doom doom on the inside.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 09/30/04 11:13 PM

I'm with you Bigjohn, the whale scene when it lifts its tongue up and roars like its in heat is very impressive, almost like my EP350 takes a deep breath and says I hope your sitting down for this one because I'm about to scare the crap outa you....


Posted by: denver

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/01/04 12:18 AM

I just listened to the Darla scene through my system (M60's and SVS PB1 ISD), and in the closeup tapping part I heard two sounds. The most pronounced was the bass "doom, doom, doom" but at the start of each strike I think there was also another sound, like her fingernail hitting the glass, but not real sharp and somewhat obscured by the booming sound.

When the point of view changes, and the receptionist/assistant looks through the doorway at Darla, the sound becomes a very mild tapping from the external perspective, not the booming sound that the fish are hearing inside the tank.

I then took the DVD up to the bedroom, where we have a DVD player hooked up to a 20-year-old TV without any external amp or speakers. Without much of any bass capability, the "doom" sound was mostly gone, and the closeup of Darla tapping was more of a "doing, doing" sound, or maybe closer to the "tapping" that GaryG expected.

Boy it's hard to describe this without sounding ridiculous! I have to believe, though, that my Axiom/SVS delivered the sound that was intended, as so many others have expressed already. Perhaps it doesn't sound right if one hasn't heard the full effect before.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/01/04 01:30 AM

In reply to:

Boy it's hard to describe this without sounding ridiculous!



I'm starting to feel ridiculous for being the only one here that doesn't own this DVD. Though I have seen it.

Bren R.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/01/04 01:51 AM

Hell, you also don't like Led Zeppelin. I'm beginning to see a pattern...


Here it comes.... Damn, just a grease stain. Never mind.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/01/04 02:14 AM

I bet I can top that. I own the DVD, but have never seen it.
Posted by: gbaker

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/02/04 10:47 PM

Actually no guessing is required. This scene appears to be one of the lowest frequency and highest amplitudes shown on the waterfall charts. This scene is shown going down to 10Hz (Yes 10 hz NOT a typo). It obviously goes even lower but they didnít record below 10 Hz. Check it out at the SVS subwoofer site.
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/02/04 10:50 PM

Thanks for that. I was positive that it got down there! I was thinking maybe 15 but 10 WOW!
Posted by: curtis

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/03/04 01:03 PM

Yeah...it does have some amplitude/decay down to 10hz, but the majority of what we are hearing is between the mid 20's and 80hz.
Posted by: gbaker

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/04/04 07:10 AM

True and I doubt even on a good day in my youth I could "hear" 10 Hz. I also doubt my sub can robustly reproduce frequencies down to 10 Hz. But the SVS graphs are interesting nonetheless. Regards
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/04/04 10:04 AM

In reply to:

I also doubt my sub can robustly reproduce frequencies down to 10 Hz.




What...........you don't have a SVS? :-)
Posted by: gbaker

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/04/04 06:09 PM

LOL Lets just say its higher on my priorities than the wife's. Actually I'm kinda lucky. Iím "storing" my brother's nice def tech 5.1 speaker system in my den right now. Fortunately the wife has a fair amount of appreciation for it. I also discovered that she loves music videos, which mitigates some of her "aren't those kinda big" feelings toward speakers. Hey they say even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/05/04 04:04 AM

Deftec - don't they make flashbang grenades?

Bren R.
Posted by: DJ_Stunna

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/05/04 07:58 AM

He means Definitive Technology.

A neighbor of mine from back in San Diego had 2 Def Tech BP-3000s - fairly decent, but not for the price he paid (~$4500 USD / pr).
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/05/04 12:44 PM

In reply to:

He means Definitive Technology.



Ouch, tough crowd... *tap tap* is this thing on?

Bren R.
Posted by: bigjohn

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 10/05/04 12:46 PM

---BUELLER??......BUELLER??

bigjohn
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/18/05 08:47 PM

Well crap... just to revive an old thread.

I wanted to hear the Darla Tap scene, so I went out and rented Shark Tale. Watched the whole d*** movie then realize I RENTED THE WRONG DVD. Darla Tap is in Finding Nemo, not Shark Tale !!

Oh well, it was still a fun movie. The whole DVD seemed pretty quiet though -- normally watch at -10 for "loud" but even at -5 this was pretty mellow...
Posted by: oldskoolboarder

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/18/05 09:20 PM

actually that's kinda funny.

You should come to my house and watch Nemo for the upteenth time w/ my 3 year old. I really need a best of DVD that only has about 5 scenes she likes...
Posted by: bray

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/18/05 11:45 PM

Funny you say that.
I had an audition on Sun. and besides a great bottle of wine, the auditioneer left me with 3 great test dvds.
Each dvd has multiple out takes (Darla Tap among them) from several movies, some in DD, some in DTS, all cataloged nicely.
Thanks Steve W.
Posted by: Montclair

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/19/05 11:22 AM

WHAT?! Thereís more than 1 cartoon fish movie? I thought the other one was about ants or bugs. Oh, wait, there were 2 of those. What about that story of toys?Ö Oh, yeah, that had 2 movies tooÖ maybe all these cartoons come in his and hers pairs.

Iím glad this thread got revived. I was just recently listening to the Darla scene and wondering if my system was working right because I thought I remembered some higher pitch tapping on our old TV speaker, but I sure donít using the Axioms and subwoofer. Nice to have confirmation that Iím hearing the same thing everyone else is, a very big DOOM, DOOM, DOOM.

Posted by: oldskoolboarder

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/19/05 12:59 PM

Someone would make some money selling that DVD to parents. Why? Because almost all Disney movies have disturbing scenes (to toddlers) that kids ALWAYS want to skip.

Disturbing Disney

Curious if anyone's ever found a reason why so many Disney movies are like this.
Posted by: Legairre

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/19/05 05:38 PM

Scroll down a few post in this link and you'll see the freq waterfall for the Darla tap scene. The red indicates where the strong bass in the 30Hz - 35Hz region. There's bass below 10 Hz, but it's not nearly a strong as the 30 -35Hz stuff.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1776280&highlight=darla#post1776280

Great bass scene thats intended to sound like a boom, boom not a tap. Like others have said it's supposed to be from the perspective of being in a tank of water.

Posted by: mbj

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 10:51 AM

Yep, my little one watches Nemo almost daily.

So, he's watching it the other day and I notice a funny rattling sound coming from my Hsu STF-2 during the more bass-y parts. It turns out he had stuck a small plastic fire hydrant into the rear port and the vibrations rattled it down into the sub. I laid the sub face down and fished the toy back out through the port.
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 11:10 AM

I really feel out of place

My Mains have no mids, and my sub has no ports.

Anybody else here who dosen't have to worry about toys in their subs, by running a sealed unit?

(I Have had toys in my M50s though)

(Actually, I run a sealed sub cause that's the direction life took as it marched by, and it does help keep the neighborhood sub wars truce in place)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 11:23 AM

Yup, me too.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 11:50 AM

If it makes you feel any better, I think there is still a mouse in one of my M60s.
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 12:58 PM

Oops.....

Of the four "Mice": A wired Mouse, a biological mouse, a Mickey Mouse or an audible squeek, The latter is probably the worse option
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 02:02 PM

Biological. Self propelled, self manufacturing. Fortunately just one (I think), not the two-mouse team you need to turn the damping material into an infinite number of mice.
Posted by: oldskoolboarder

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 02:06 PM

HA! That fire hydrant remind of one of those House (on Fox) episodes where a big brother came in w/ a little brother cause he had breathing problems. He kept stuffing little people figures in his nose. Then he stuck a fire truck inside too. The fire truck was to save the people who got stuck. Very funny.
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 02:14 PM

Really!!! A real live honest to goodness teeny heart pumping MOUSE!!

That's almost too cool(if weren't potentially disasterous)

I used to debug computers in the 60s(real bugs!) But mice in a speaker?? How do you find a cat small enough to fit thru one of the ports?? Looking at Kens' pic.....cats are too large!!

Gotta get ahold of Bren for help....he's in the mood for taking it out on cute little animals this week!!
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 02:45 PM

In reply to:

Gotta get ahold of Bren for help....he's in the mood for taking it out on cute little animals this week!!


Now let me just say here before I'm branded an animal abuser, that it probably did a WHOLE lot more damage to my hand than the calf's head... these are animals that headbutt the 1.5" box steel bars in the corrals a few hundred times a day... like hitting a pelt-covered cinder block.

Bren R.
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 03:42 PM

OH.......uh


I think I knew that.


Um.......we all stand corrected.




Hope your hand feels better....

....and that the little cow appologized
Posted by: bray

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 07:48 PM

MOOOOOOOOOO
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 08:50 PM

Well.......I don't know about a large eyed calf.......

.....but it sure is a BIG EYE!!!
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 09:40 PM

>>these are animals that headbutt the 1.5" box steel bars in the corrals a few hundred times a day... like hitting a pelt-covered cinder block.

Yeah... I would not feel too bad for the calf. There is a farm next door to my new property... drove up earlier in the year and there were a bunch of very young... um... cattle milling around. They looked really cute. I pulled over to the side of the road and they wandered over... then started running... then a couple of them lowered their heads... and they were pretty damn BIG by the time they got near my car.

If anyone wants to know how fast a Dodge Magnum can go backwards, I might be able to help
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Finding Nemo - Darla Tap scene Demo concern - 08/29/05 10:12 PM

My Aunt and Uncle had a pretty extensive farm in Illinois and my family used to visit them in the summer quite often.

They had a bunch of cattle in the timber that were almost closer to a wild herd!! They also had a barn full of hay or straw bundles that the cattle had access to.

My little brother and I had a jolly time teasing the cattle{we had much more respect for the hogs, and one particularly nasty half blind rooster who thought that he were the elected barnyard tyrant)But we'd pick a cow to tease and then run for the barn and up onto the straw. My Uncle tolerated it, but my Aunt heard the ruccus and put a halt to it so she wouldn't have to send at least one of us kids home with serious damage. It was fun while it lasted, but it was scarry fun as even an ol' cow could run a whole lot faster than even we super-quick little guys had expected!!