OK, I’m _really going to make this my last post on subwoofers…… at least I think I am! :P

I’m very confident about the right Axiom system for me (M60s, VP150, QS8s) for every speaker except the sub. I’ve asked opinions on which manufacturer and about musicality VS. “Boom” before, but I have one last, simple question.

I’m going to go with an Axiom sub. I know others might be a little better value in terms of extension for the price, etc… but I’m only putting this in a 13’ x 13’ x 8’ room, and it IS going to be used along with M60s, and it will be very visible so I like the idea of matching the finish of the rest of the system.

But, for the life of me, I just keep going back and forth between the EP350 and the EP175. There’s not much difference in price, there’s very little difference in physical size, there’s only a fractional difference in power. Really, on paper, the 350 only looks a tiny bit better. As a matter of fact, looking at the specs only, I’m not even sure why Axiom maintains the 175 in the line. It almost seems like they could drop the 175 from the market, and drop the price of the 350 by $50 (make up for it in volume and efficiency of having to build one less variation and stocking extra parts for the 175).

It makes me think I MUST be missing something here. On paper, the 350 looks like it’s only 10% better; maybe in reality it’s much more than that? In a 13’ square room, will there be much of a “real world” difference between the two? If it just means I keep one set to “five” and another to “four”, or I gain just a few Hz in extension, or one is just an inch and a half smaller, I might as well go for the 175. How do I determine the preferred one for my needs without ordering both and trying them side by side (no, that seems like a big waste of postage and it’s taking advantage of Axiom’s generous policies in my opinion).

Sorry to even ask another sub question; you experienced forum members must be sick of the same repeats over and over! I just wonder if I’m missing something obvious between the two, and wonder if it makes a difference in a smallish room anyway? I searched past posts, but really didn’t find anything regarding the differences between the two!

Hi Mark,

I really respect your position to pay some heed to the aesthetics of the situation.

I'm totally speculating here, because I don't own either model, but I'll give you my opinion for free. One time only. Call before midnight tonight. Not valid in all states.

The EP350 is 2 inches bigger in every dimension; it really is a bigger box and a bigger driver. It will produce lower frequencies and produce them more loudly. As to whether those differences are going to be meaningful to you in your room, only you can decide.

Didn't you have the very real prospect of moving your setup to a new, larger room in the future? If it was me, I'd future-proof the buying decision and get a Factory Outlet EP350 for $558 - the wait time is only a couple weeks.

You should call Axiom and talk to Alan or Joe or Brent or somebody about your dilemma. I'm sure they will be happy to advise you more capably than any of us numbskulls. On this topic, anyway

Hi Mark,

In that size of room, get the EP175. You will not hear a difference with the EP350 unless you put the system in a much larger room, and even then, I think you'd be better advised to add a second EP175 to get more even coverage and for greater overall output.

Regards,

"Didn't you have the very real prospect of moving your setup to a new, larger room in the future?"

Yes, I did.

I didn't bring that up this time because I thought that if the two subs are very close in performance, in EITHER case I'd probably add a second sub in that larger room down the road. Only if the 350 were rasonably or substantially more powerful could I likly avert that situation... and whether or not the sub was apprecibly more powerful was kinda the question in the first place!

I was trying to keep the question simple. I'm afraid that I'll become known as "Long Post Mark" if I don't start keeping my posts in these forums to under 5,000 words.

Hey, now that I think of it, it wouldn't be a HORRIBLE nickname to have!!??!!

Thanks Tom and Alan!
I think I'll change my SIG line and put this to bed!

"Long Post Mark"

Dear Long Post,

Sounds like Alan got you covered.

I've been called worse. By a long shot.

Hope you enjoy your Axioms! Be sure to stick around the forums and lend a hand where you can.

I've got my EP175 in a 12.5 x 16 x 9 room, and it's a terrific little sub. For my normal listening levels (rarely over 75db, the occasional 80db), it's more than adequate and never loses its composure. I think the volume on the sub is only dialed up to around 9 o'clock, and that's with the Avia calibration disc. The only negative thing I could say is that in some movies with a lot of low frequency material (particularly a quick bomb blast or something similar), I feel like there's a noticable roll-off. That is, there's no distortion or abruptness in its behavior, but I know for a fact there's additional frequencies the EP175 isn't handling. Of course, my next door neighbor would probably disagree.

If I had it to do over again (and eventually I will), I'd opt for something with more extension. But the EP175 is a very nice, well made little sub and it does very well with music. Heck, it does great with movies too - but there's that 2-3% of the time that I'd wish I'd picked something that could go a little lower.

Jeeeez, THANKS Mike!

Just when I thought it was settled!
I guess I have to change my SIG line back?

Tell you what - I'll make you a great deal on my EP175 and then I can either save for a VTF-3R or a PB12-Plus. Or a EP500...mmmmmmmmmmm...

In all seriousness, the EP175 IS a very good sub. I suspect part of my complaints stem from the fact that it's right next to the couch, and even though it's callibrated properly for my listening position I can hear every last thing that's going on. Combine that with a fixed 100hz crossover on my Marantz, and the sub becomes a little too easy to localize.

Put it this way: If I bought my setup today, I'd probably look at one of the subs I mentioned above. On the other hand, I've lived with mine for two years now and I haven't felt compelled to spring for a different sub. It does its thing very, very well. Its "thing", however, just doesn't include the extension that other subs from HSU, SVS and Axiom might offer.

It's hard for me to imagine that there is really much going on below 28~25 Hz.... maybe I'm just ignorant in that respect, but it's one of the reasons I've always said that I would value "musicality" over more extension.

Anyone? If Sub "A" goes flat to 28Hz and Sub "B" goes to 20Hz, does that really come into play often? Assuming it's very rarely an issue in music, do those lowest of notes hit once in a movie like Saving Private Ryan, or are they hitting 40 times and responsible for much of the impact through many scenes?

You know, I've never auditioned subs. It seems as though they would be SO dependant upon the room they're in, their location within that room and the interaction of the other speakers that it never seemed to have mattered. Maybe, as I said, I'm ignorant because I've never owned a good one? Funny thing is, I've been using subs for 25 years, long before they were moderately known for satellite/sub systems and REALLY long before they were popular for Home Theater use. But I've always bought "relatively" cheap ones and I'm not exactly sure what to expect out of a better one!!??

NOW I'm back to even wondering about the SVS/HSU option. I can't believe I have so much confidence in all the Axioms I'm ordering but just cannot seem to decide on the sub....!

Whooooaahh! You dudes are, like, SO freakin' me out over this!

Mark, buddy, in the words of Bernie Mac - Chillax. We'll talk you in. It will be okay.

Sometimes, freaking out IS the appropriate response. This is not one of those times. Enjoy the journey.

I'm pretty sure you used up your "just one more sub question"

Here's my experience (albeit limited and amateur) relative to your question on how much truly low frequency content there is. This is just my opinion - anybody who wants to convince me otherwise is welcome to bring good quality beer to my house and give it a go. I think for most (non-electronica) popular music, there is not much activity below 25Hz. The only music I really notice being "wowed" by my sub contains acoustic bass, but I don't really listen to classical or organ music. Relative to HT, it really depends on the movie, but you might be surprised how frequent and persuasive the LFE stuff is. Did you scan these charts?

I'm sure the Axiom subs are brilliant. Smashing. Wicked pissah. Insert colorful adjective here.

It's a personal choice, of course. You expressed some fairly strong desire to NOT have a big black box (or fabric-covered water heater) in your current listening space. I personally think that is a completely valid concern, especially since you will give up little (if any) quality by choosing Axiom over those other brands.

If I were you (and heck, I don't even play you on TV, so what do I know?), I'd buy the EP175 like Alan suggested, enjoy yourself, drink a beer, read the entire beer thread, smoke a cigar, play some tunes, and well, chillax some more. If you move to the attic, buy another one. Live happily ever after.

Or you could continue to torture yourself over this decision. Strictly up to you, of course

Apparently it falls to me to help add confusion for you. That's usually Jack's job, but he is napping. I concur with Tom - future proof if you know you are going to larger digs; at the very least, plan on the 2 EP175s. (little known fact - 2 subs gets you extra credit on your Man Card).

However, I must take umbrage to your comment about not much going on under 25hz. It is a secret and active place, especially in some DVDs that have been mentioned on the board. the 20-25 space is WHY you get a sub. Embrace the dogma that one cannot have too much LFE. It is good to bleed your ears once in awhile.

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Embrace the dogma that one cannot have too much LFE. It is good to bleed your ears once in awhile.

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Hmm.. strange - those sub-audible tones never make my ears bleed (that's why Chad Kroeger was born)... they just make my junk jiggle in only the most delightfu... er, never mind.

Bren R.

[Mary Poppins]... in a most delight-ful waaaay![/Mary Poppins]

LOL! Many years ago, in another life, I was the sound tech for a local/regional country rock band. My brother, who is 9 years older, and thus of another generation, always used to sneer derisively, and say "the only reason young people like to go to clubs where the bands are playing at a ridiculously loud volume was because all that low bass rattles their (insert obvious body parts here)." I do believe Bren and Peter have proved him correct!

"all that low bass rattles their (insert obvious body parts here)."

OK. New Sub Question, forget everything I've asked before about measly, puny, "ordinary" subs: Where can I get a sub Big enough, Low enough, and Loud enough?

I figure if the quote above has any truth to it, my wife might encourage AND PAY for lots more upgrades to the system!

Just so I can stop bugging you guys, I placed my order. Well, really, it was because my clients' finally check cleared and I actually ordered my VP150 and my QS8s as well.

Some recommended that the 175 would be enough for my room, some (basically) said "you can't have enough bass and you should look to a deep, loud SVS". I thought the 350 would be the best compromise between the two: Keeping the finish of my other Axioms, it falls between the 175 and some of the SVS and HSU stuff in performance.

There. Settled. I'm hoping it will reach a little deeper and yet not overwhelm the room.

Now I just have to sit here waiting for them all to come in. Man, that other poster who said he was like a kid at Christmas really nailed it. I buy lots and lots of expensive stuff for my video production business all the time, but I really can't remember the last time I was this psyched for something.

Not to hijack my own thread, but what happens at this point? I ordered my M60s (outlet) about 10~12 days ago, and now ordered the rest via the outlet as well.

Does Amie (listen to me: on a first-name basis already!)send an e-mail to confirm that the order has been sent, or, as I _think_ others have said, do customers get some sort of an estimate when the whole thing is a week or two away or something?

I swear I already hear reindeer on the roof!

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There. Settled. I'm hoping it will reach a little deeper and yet not overwhelm the room.

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There's the great little level control on the back to keep it from overwhelming the room. Let your wife set it.

Bren R.

You did great. That will probably be more than you'll ever want, and if you find you do want more you can always order another 350.

So what color did you get? Huh? Huh?

"So what color did you get? Huh? Huh?"

Beech with black grills all the way around. That looks like it's pretty much the color of my hardwood floors. That will keep with a theme with my Bell'o rack as well... at least until I put panels of purple Auralex foam all over the walls!