I was wondering if anyone had any opinions about the Harman Kardon DVD 22 and DVD 31 dvd players? If so, can you please post.
What other DVD players would anyone recommend in the $250-500 range? I'm also not very concerned about the new formats yet.
I cannot comment on the H/K DVD players. I have been using a Sony DVP-NS975 for about a month. I use its HDMI output for video and the optical out for audio. I have not tried it for SACD's yet with a 5.1 set of cables. So far I have no complaints.
In that range the Denon DVD-1910 deserves a look.
shag, if you expand your search to include refurbished units, you might want to consider the Denon 2900, which is available
at ecost right now for a remarkably good price. (All the way at the bottom of the page). Original MSRP was $1000.
ecost is an authorized Denon etailer and the unit would come with a 90 day Denon warranty. Head & shoulders above the $250-$500 players you might buy new.
I'm such a cheapskate. I watched this player drop in price, and I held off, thinking if I wait long enough it will bottom out. Well, they seem to have mostly disappeared now. Darn.
Which one is a better all-around performer? The older Denon 2900 or the newer 2910.
I have been looking at picking up a refurbed 2910.
I would go with tht 2910. It has a higher number so it must be better...
You may want to look at the DAC's on both to compare.
Curtis,
From an audio perspective, the 2900 is the hands down winner. The DACs are simple better.
Video becomes a different discussion. The 2910 does scaling, but I've seen it and none of the DVD players do it very well. The build quality of the 2900 is unbelieveable - built like a tank (uses the 5900 hulk and some if its innards). Both units have excellent PQ, but here is where the difference is.
The 2910 uses the Faroujda chip. Good chip, tends to produce a very sharp, "crisp" picture. Nothing wrong with that at all. The PQ is somewhat 2 dimensional looking. Does very well for video (camcorder) output.
The 2900 uses the Silicon Image chip. Also produces a sharp picture. However, the colors are noticeably brighter - the picture has more pop to it. Also, there is more of a 3D look to the picture.
I tried both of them with my Sony LCD based on some advice in a couple of threads on AVS forum. The 2900, because of what I mentioned above and the deinterlacer that the Sony uses was clearly a better choice for me. I kept the 2900 and I am thrilled with it.
I don't think you make a mistake with either choice, but the 2900 sits between the 2910 and 3910. If the 2910 is a o and the 3910 is a 100, then the 2900 is an 75. This is an overall scale/estimate of the capabilities of the machines.
Let me suggest you go over the AVS Forum and search in "DVD Players". Look for 2900 and 2910 and also "umr" (the guy who provided the advice. There are also a couple of significant threads here at Axiom recently that might be good to search. Of course your best option is to see them side by side.
Hope it helps.
Ray
Ray....thanks for the great advice.
I am not too worried about audio....I use the DACs in my pre/pro. This would be more of a video upgrade.....and would also affect the audio quality of DVD-A and SACD.
Were you able to compare how the DVI output of the 2910 compared to the component output of the 2900?
My other option would be to get a less expensive Faroudja unit such as the Bravo or Oppo, and use it for DVD-Videos only.
BTW, Ray, the last time you suggested something to me, I bought it, so please watch my pocketbook.
You may want to check out this unit. I have not compared it against the denon. Just a thought.
http://www.audioholics.com/productr...DVDChanger7.php
Curtis - LOL!! Normally, I only do damage to my own wallet.
The folks at Home Theater Hifi do a fantastic job of testing DVD Players. Take a look
at their results . It's pretty interesting. If you click on the model number in the left hand column, it will give you the review they wrote for the that unit. These guys are well regarded for the straight skinny and the best info.
Note where the 2900 and 2910 sit in relation to the others. Also note that Denon dominates the top 20. I'm showing you all of this to illustrate a point and aswer a your question.
I originally owned the Denon 1600 (ranked pretty high on the chart; certainly above the 2900 and 2910). For PQ, my eyes told me the 1600 beat the 2910, but I also thought the 2900 beat the1600. I sold the 1600 and now one the 2900.
What you have with the DVD Shootout link is an excellent source and, hopefully, you managed to chase down a couple of those links I suggested. The point - you can't really make a mistake with the 2 units we've talked about. Also, the top 30 or so will also give you a pretty good choice to look at as alternatives.
Both Faroujda and Silicon Image make good chips. This choice is like any other you'll make with HT gear. Most of it is subjective once you've narrowed down to 2-3 choices. I'm also sending you a PM.
i own the dvd 22 and highly recommend it. the video was leap from an old pioneer (can't remember the model). and the audio's really great. it doubles as a cd player that i've hooked into a tube pre-amp. (my marantz's relegated to power amp.) the set-up has opened up my M22's even more. good luck
Well.....Ray has done it again.
I just purchased a Denon 2900.
He and Jack are atleast partially responsible for about $700 of my purchases in the last few months.
I think he convinced me too... it's just not a good time financially! Of course, now they probably won't be available when I'm ready!
Thanks
a lot Ray...(grumble, grumble).
The great thing is he made his opinion, and pointed me to all the available information. It just shortenned the process for me. Helped me spend my money faster.
Curtis, did you get a refurbed or new unit? I just got a refurbed 2910 from eCOST for $450 shipped. The price was right.
I REALLY enjoy spending your money.
I got a refurb 2900 for $529. I waffled all morning between the 2910 and 2900. eCost has more refurb 2910's coming in tomorrow. Heck, spiff was trying to talk me into a 3910.
I have to stop visiting the board looking advice.
I just bought a H/K dvd 22 from CC for $199.00.The picture is as good as the Denon 2900 I just sold.I know this is a crazy swap but I just could'nt see keeping the 2900 when the picture is no better then a $200.00 /$300.00 player.I had a H/k 101 for awhile and it worked great.I used some of the extra money on the wife's valentines gift,so she's happy too.
I won't argue on the picture....but the HK is not a universal player.
What kind of TV do you have and how were/are the DVD players hooked up?
It may not be as universal as the 2900 but it does play sacd.I have a Sony 36" XBR 800.The dvd player is connected to my Yamaha 1400 using a component cable and optical cable and then to the tv with a component cable.It works fine for me.
Are you sure it plays SACD/Multi-channel? Not to be argumentative, but SACD is not listed in the manual, and it does not have 5.1 analog output.
If you are playing an SACD....it is probably a hybrid disc that has SACD and standard redbook format.
I will stop buy circuit city to check one out when I get the chance.
Pmbuko is right... the HK is playing the stereo compatibility track that comes on many SACDs (eg. DSOTM). Bet it still sounds great though.
As far as I know you can't play "real" SACD through the normal optical or coax digital links.
You're right on the sacd ,but I'm still happy.
Curtis - you are gonna love the 2900!!
What are we shopping for next - cars?, antiques?, aluminum siding?
You are pretty much a mobile one man Shopping Channel lately!
BTW - the 2900 uses the same commands as the DVD-3800 and DVM-4800. Enjoy my friend!
I'll talk to Jack and see if we can all go shopping together soon.
I'm glad I'm right, but I didn't say that.
Ray and Jack are bad influences.......
In reply to:
The 2910 uses the Faroujda chip. Good chip, tends to produce a very sharp, "crisp" picture. Nothing wrong with that at all. The PQ is somewhat 2 dimensional looking. Does very well for video (camcorder) output.
I did some research some time ago on these decks and recall that the 2910 has severe macroblocking problem with its HDMI output, especially on plasmas - a big downer. I never tried to understand what macroblocking is. You may get more info by googling.
Hi Doc,
You are correct (mostly). The 2910, because of the Faroujda chip, does have some macroblocking under certain conditions. It's noticeable if you look for it, but I'm not sure I'd characterize it as "severe". The link I provided for Curtis
to the DVD Shoot Out site discusses the issue.
As you can see, while it exists, macroblocking only gets a passing mention. The consensus of the things I read/ researched is that this is not an issue to knock the 2910 out of a set of choices. The Genesis / Faroujda chip combination delivers stellar PQ, but also brings the small macroblocking isue.
I don't want to know what macroblocking is, because if I do, I'll start looking for it, and I don't want to find it. I only know that the picture from the 2910 via DVI to my Samsung DLP at 720p looks WONDERFUL!
How much more money do WE have to spend, Curtis, and what can WE spend it on next?
This is fun!
Stay away from me!
As it turns out, eCost is owned by PC Mall...they have a store close to me. I should be able to go and pick up the 2900 and have it sooner....I will know tomorrow.
In reply to:
As you can see, while it exists, macroblocking only gets a passing mention. The consensus of the things I read/ researched is that this is not an issue to knock the 2910 out of a set of choices. The Genesis / Faroujda chip combination delivers stellar PQ, but also brings the small macroblocking isue.
Yes, I guess the severity depends on the display. The user reports I read range from "it's there if you look real hard" to "I can't bear it, it's unwatchable". I was pretty close to buying the 2910 (mainly because of the multichannel audio and digital video out) until I found out about macroblocking, and I wasn't taking any chances.
IMHO, in a time of $30 progressive scan players, a player listed for $700 (more than my first car) should have no bug whatsoever. DVD isn't exactly cutting edge technology by now.
Having said that, I am looking forward to the hopefully MB-free 2920. The audio on my Pioneer 578 sucks real bad. The 3910 is like Angelina Jolie to me - simply out of range.
OTOH, If I were Ajax, I wouldn't want to know about MB either. Ignorance is definitely bliss here.
Well, your fall back choice of the 2900 won't disappoint. I have one and it's a pretty special unit. I believe you will find the audio is more robust than the 2910 as well.
ya know, up until today i was
perfectly happy with my pioneer 578. even though it is a little slow to swap layers and is only slightly audible when spinning it magically became unbearable after doing some research on the 2900. thanks to you bastids i gotta explain to my wife why i need to drop another 600 bucks. (next thing you know know i'll be lookin at those mx-700 remotes...
i swear i gotta stop coming here, you guys are gonna wreck me!
MX-700 and a 2900......you got Ray/Jack....and Ray to blame!
My 2900 is here! Won't have much time to play with it tonight though.
>.ya know, up until today i was perfectly happy with my pioneer 578. even though it is a little slow to swap layers and is only slightly audible when spinning it magically became unbearable after doing some research on the 2900.
Oh, I don't want to hear this. I just bought a 578
Hurry! Hurry! Hurry!
The 2900 line forms right here.
No need to push - plenty for everybody.
Pick up that checkbook, mister. PICK IT UP!!!
RLMAO. You guys are making SUCH a good choice and you are a bit concerned about it. That all goes away after you plug in and calibrate. Wait until you plug in the analog cables and do some DVD-A / SACD.
There WILL be wood!!
I'm with you on that one. I have the Pioneer 563A. I've been happy with it for the most part. Now I have the upgrade bug
OK Ray,
I'm letting you spend MY Money!
Although, it really isn't as much as I would have though.
I was on the fence about what to upgrade next, (If ANY at ALL!!) and found myself in Crutchfield today looking for a cheap stereo reciever for my Mom in their outlet section when what did I come across?
A Denon 2900 marked down from $700 to $495 to $349.
Brand new, had the guy run the numbers, it was a store display item, never pluged in, missing the power chord.
He fished into another box and got me the power chord.
Which seemed pretting sporting of him.
He seemed genuinely surprised the it was there in the Outlet section, Marked down that low. Said that if he had known it was there he would have bought it himself and E-Bay-ed it!
Full Warranty. The whole shebang.
If this is half the player you say it is, especially at the Audio end, I think I'm a happy guy!
Thanks!
TjB
yeah, its hard NOT to have upgraditis when the player you bought was only $129. still, all in all, its a pretty good player. the only time ive noticed a hitch in its giddyup was watching Episode II when Jango and Obi-Wan are in the asteroid field (great demo scene for a sub!
) and on a disc that i bought from the history channel. other than that no problems; at least not enough to justify buying a ~$550 player.....but then again, who REALLY needs to justify buying A/V stuf??
OK....got to play with the 2900 some last night and this morning.
The video quality is noticeably better than my 563a. Colors are more vivid and picture sharper.....better depth. It is not a "night and day" difference...but easily noticeable. Makes me wonder how much different it is than the 2910.
Audio is outstanding. I went back between the DACs on my pre/pro and the 2900......so far I am leaning toward the 2900, but much more listening needs to be done. Played one DVD-A.....again...outstanding.
One downside, it seems to have issues with some DVD-R's that I have burned. From what I have read, it is finicky on the media. I can get them all to play, it is just that some to not start properly. From what I have read, it seems to like DVD+R discs better than DVD-R. Not a big deal.
I need to thumb thru the manual so I know all the features....unless Ray wants to fly out and give a tutorial.
MX-700 is all programmed for it already too. I toyed with labeling the DVD button "RayJack" in honor of those that influenced me.
Curt,
I am just moments away from ordering this thing. Why would I want to do this when I have the wonderful Pioneer 563A??? I don't know. I don't have a problem with the Pioneer's video quality. Before I jump on the bandwagon, I just have to know one thing. Will I notice any difference on the audio side compared to the Pio??? The apple of my eye told me the only problem he has with DVD-Rs is during the intial start up. It hesitates for a moment and then plays them just fine.
curtis,
RayJack - that's funny!
Even the 2910 and 3910 can be bit finicky about burned DVDs. I might suggest that you try and use Taiyo Yuden DVD-R media (available from Rima - outstanding etailer). TY is simply the best out there from a media/reliability perspective.
As far as the picture thing goes, the 2910 is a bit sharper, the colors don't "pop" quite as much and the picture is a bit more 2 dimensional. Nothing wrong with it, it's just the difference in the chips. I'm guessing you haven't done the Avia/calibration thing yet. It helps.
The other nice thing about the 2900 is it's speed. NO layer change delay is noticeable and the menus are fast as well.
Give us a review when you are calibrated, setup and experienced!
In reply to:
MX-700 is all programmed for it already too. I toyed with labeling the DVD button "RayJack" in honor of those that influenced me.
I'm humbled. But......er.......um......shouldn't that be JACKray?
Ray,
Now you did it. I went over to Crutchfield and ordered one of the last s&d models. I suppose it will be smashed to bits when I get it. At least I get the 30 day free return option. If you hear screaming from the midwest you will know I either opened a box filled with smashed electronics, or it is a cry of glee.
Ha, Ha, Ha! This whole 2900 thing is taking on a life of it's own. Good for you Bruce!
Bruce...I was/am very happy with the 563a as well....but then Ray got ahold of me.....
In honesty, I wanted a little extra....more quality, and the 2900 has it in every aspect.
As for audio, I used the 563a as a transport, using the DAC's in my Sherwood/Newcastle P-965, it sounded much better to me. The 2900's DACs are at least comparable to that of the P-965....IMO.
You know that the MX-700 hard button labels only accept five characters
So, while I had not previously considered the notion of whimsical labels, I fear that my creativity will not be accommodated by the technological limitations. Pity.
You guys stop talking about video quality improvements RIGHT NOW. I mean it. Don't make me come over there.
Oh...that's right...5 characters.
Then how about "JACAY"?
tom - is that....audio/video envy I smell on your breath? Perhaps a hint of upgradeitis?
Curt,
Thanks for the input on the Denon. I'm giving you my vote. JACAY it is.
I think the 29er will look nicer in my meager rack below the 1083. At the very least it will serve as a temporary replacement for my PIO while it is getting that firmware upgrade.LOL
U GUYS ROCK
by the way...the 2900 is NOT small. It takes up almost as much room as my pre/pro.
I know that. I may have to get a new rack. Yummy. More money goes bye-bye. I just got one of those your shipment has shipped messages. Man, that was quick. I didn't know they could sweep together all those tiny little bits so quickly.
Ask Ray or Jack what they recommend!
JACAY is 2 people. I'm flabberghasted.
I prefer RACK as an abbreviation for their names. Just don't go confusing it with rack-mounting.
"I didn't know they could sweep together all those tiny little bits so quickly."
Don't Worry littleb, they only send the Big Parts!
;-)
But seriously, I live here in Charlotesville, and have put together two of my own systems, and two others for friends from the Outlet part of the store, and I think the only thing I have EVER had to return was a blown Polk Sub.
Most of the stuff that ends up there is either a store demo, something with a tiny scratch, or something that they were able to fix easily in house. If it requires major repairs they just send it back to the manufacturer and let them deal with it.
One of their VP's used to be a good customer of mine, and he always told me to wiat until something hit the Outlet shelves.
Your unit will be fine, and if it is not, they will make it right.
TjB
You guys have entirely too much time available to use with your keyboards!
Let's just call it FRED and be done with it.
If it makes it out of the S&D outlet ok, it may not survive the UPS treatment. There are numerous chances for this machine to get totally destroyed. I'm sure glad they have a generous return policy. It may come in handy. If, and I mean if the player arrives nuked I'm hoping for a 3910 at a steep discount.
The 2900 in its new home:
http://www.thechangs.us/clean.JPG
I should got the MX-700 in there as well for a tribute to Ray and Jack.
Looking GOOD!, Curtis!
Nice gear, Curt. I've seen those Epson TV's downtown. Like the looks of them. You're giving me an inferiority complex.Ha, Ha.
Thanks Jack....
littleb.....me....giving you a complex? Ray is the one causing trouble.
The wife loves your stand? Is it homemade?
The TV stand? I designed it along with the owner of a local furniture shop, and he made it. It turned out great, and was inexpensive compared to other stuff I was looking at. I recently had him make those boxes the amps are sitting on.
Very nice curtis!
Soooo, ya got any more money to spend? We haven't talked about a nice 6500K backlight fot that TV and there is still X10 lighting to be dealt with!!!
So....I got to know....how did you know I was thinking about X10 and backlighting!!!???
This is scary!
Oh you in BIG trouble now!
We actually ARE gonna spend more of your money. Sic 'im Ray!
I infected you, now you get to infect Curtis.
This is priceless!!! Build an addition - Jack and I are moving out there with you!!!
Here is the link for
the backlight . Shielded, 6500K flourescent bulb (warm, balanced video bias lighting). Did the research - this is the one. You don't need a filter kit. Sits on a shelf behind the TV, can be wall mounted or attached to the TV with velcro. Makes a big difference.
For X10 lighting take a look
here and
here .
You will need some controllers to turn lights on/off from central locations. As you go through the process you'll understand why. They normally run $10-$13, but I found
this site and they are getting out of the business. For $2.95, you might want to pick up 4 or 5 of them.
This is
the link to the X10 commands for the MX-700. Everything you need.
Following is a copy of Jack's note to me for some X10 start up info:
***********************
For each plug-in lamp you wish to control, you need a module. I don't know anything about "scenes," or "2-way," because I don't use either. Referring to the manuals might help.
The basic module is the 2000SC http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=890 -- $9.75.
If you're short on outlets, you can get one of the modules with an always-on receptacle, either the 2 prong 2000SHL module, or the 3 prong 2000SHL3, http://www.smarthome.com/2000S.html. Both on sale for $12.99. If the sale ends, you can find at least the 2000SHL here for $13.99. http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=131&cat=Dimming+Modules
For the Ideal-Lume backlight you want an appliance module. Either the 2001SHL or 2002SHL will suffice. http://www.smarthome.com/2002S.HTML. -- $12.99 to $13.99
Here is the "pushbutton control panel" that was sitting on my desk. The correct technical generic name for it is "controller." http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=119. -- $15.80. It can control up to 16 devices.
The IR-543 (NOT the IR-543AH) is the IR controller you want, which you can control with the MX-700. It can also be used manually, and can control up to 8 devices. http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=109. -- $19.84
Here is the X-10 web site. http://www.x10.com/home2.html. You may be able to find more info there.
**********************************
While I'm thinking about it, some additional thoughts about X10:
1) It is extremely simple to set up and very effective.
2) I also bought a timer and replaced three of those annoying plug in things with the little tabs.
3) There is a controller available that allows you to control up to 16 devices from a central point.
4) I have redone some of my MX-700 "turn everything on" macros to include turning lights on & off, including the backlight. Pretty Cool.
5) I realized early and my wife has now made the trip that this isn't a solution for the lazies, as much as it is a major upgrade in convenience.
Certainly Jack and I are available for consultation and bad advice.
Buy early, buy often.
Is "Receivers address is incomplete." And "attempting to fix address" and "delivery is being rescheduled" UPS code for SMASHED INTO LITTLE ITTY,ITTY BITS OF PIECES?
OK Ray...I will be doing the reading assignment today! It does not look all that expensive.
Ray and Jack....do you put the Ideal-lume right smack in the middle behind the TV?
With my TV sitting on the stand in the picture, I have about 4" (deep) of stand top left behind it. I have the light sitting on that shelf in the back/center of the TV. Here is the picture:
Really, the thing is relatively small and light (no pun intended) and placement is flexible. As I said earlier, you can use velcro to attach it to the back of the TV.
I have mine just sitting right on the TV stand just behind the TV itself. But as Ray says, it is lightweight and there is a lot of flexibility regarding placement. The light itself has two small keyhole notches in it's back which CAN be used to mount it with screws to the wall, or the TV stand.
Thanks guys!
And don't put that notch in your belts yet.....I still have not pull the trigger on the order!
Which model do you guys have?
The 2900 has arrived. I carefully inspected it after unpacking. There isn't a scratch on it. It looks brand spanking new. The bad news is that I'll be shopping for a new rack.
We both have the standard model.
Bruce - wait til you start watching it! Don't forget to calibrate.
Ray
I plan on having the whole video side professionally calibrated next month.
Who's gonna do the ISF for you, Curtis?
I don't have his name handy...but he is local to me....about two minutes away. I got to admit though, I am pretty happy so far with the picture.
FWIW....I just copied some DVD-R's that the 2900 had problems with onto Taiyo Yuden DVD-R media.....no problems anymore!