Back in 1997 when I was in the market for a new receiver, I did most of my research on the internet, going from one manufacturers website to another, comparing features and specifications. I do not remember seeing anything about warranty warnings for buying from a dealer that was not "factory authorized." Maybe it was there and I just don't remember.
Anyhow, I have been looking around to see if there was a new receiver that I just couldn't do without. I have noticed warranty warnings at several of the manufacturer's websites, especially the Denon one.
So, just for the heck of it, I printed out their list of authorized "e-tailers." I then went to "pricegrabber" and did a web search for a Denon 3805. There were 15 retailers that "pricgrabber" listed. Only one was on Denon's approved list.
What is going on here? Where are the other 14 retailers getting their Denon receivers if not from Denon? Or, am I to believe that there is a case of fraud and the receivers really aren't Denon to begin with?
What games are being played?
What has been your experience?
The Rat.
as far as i know they're just getting them from big distributors. the retailers have to be approved by denon so they dont undercut prices too much.
Before I ordered from ecost, I called Denon and asked them why my local B&M store wasn't listed on their website as an authorized dealer even though there is a sign on the door that clearly says "Denon Authorized Dealer". They sell Yamaha, Denon, and Pioneer Elite. I have noticed that they push Yamaha, saying that they are more musical than the other two, probably because they aren't authorized to sell the less musical Denons! The Denon rep was surprised to hear that this store was selling their products and wondered aloud, saying "I don't know where they are getting these?"
littleb:
I guess that the sinister side of me just has to wonder if there is something strange going on here, perhaps illegal? The Denon rep didn't know that they were distributors and, yet, they had a sign stating such? Just a little strange, I'd say.
Seems like Denon could go to "pricegrabber" and other websites and find out who is and who is not selling their equipment. Or, do they really care?
Anyhow, my purpose is not to bash Denon because I saw it on other websites also. I'd just like to know what their "game" is before I decide to "play."
Anyone else have an experience that they would relate to this thread?
The Rat.
ravi:
The point was that 14 of the 15 "e-tailters" listed on "pricegrabber" WERE NOT on Denon's list.
Are you suggesting that these "e-tailers" bought the receivers from bigger retailers and then offered big dicounts? If so, I don't understand.
The Rat.
My assumption is that these products are what's called "gray goods"; Yes they are Denon but purchased through foreign importers as opposed to American. Most likely, the warranty will be far less than a "USA" item, if there's a factory warrantly at all. Usually the dealer offers their own "extended warranty" for the item....sometimes for additional cost.
I've been seeing gray market goods for thirty years, and have never found the price difference to be enough to make it worth it in my case. For instance, I'm looking at a couple of thousand dollars worth of lenses to complement my new DSLR. If I go "Gray", I'll save $150~200 dollars. For my peace of mind (and professional servicing) buying "USA" makes sense.
There was a thread on Audioholics awhile ago from a guy who buy a Yamaha sub from a non-authorized dealer and when the amp blew, Yamaha wouldn't touch it. The guy, figuring lightning won't strick twice, bought another Gray Yamaha sub and the same thing happened. He was PO'd as all-get-out because Yamaha wouldn't help him. His take was that for two to have failed, it must be a manufacturing defect, and he was trying to Rally other forum members to boycott Yamaha. Yamaha's position was since you bought it through non-official channels, "you're on your own". My take on it was that if he didn't learn anything the first time around, I don't have any sympathy. He played with fire a second time and got burned again because he tried to save $50.
Mark is correct as usual
This actually is very common for most electronics, and has been around since before the internet. I would suggest purchasing from an authorized e-tailer or local retailer, unless you like buying from the black market
Mark:
I went back to the Denon website to see where the parent company was headquarteres. I didn't find it. They have elements all over the world. Maybe I'll look again when I have a little more time.
But, I did find a Marantz logo on one page which surprised me. I thought that Denon and Marantz were two completely different companies. Maybe not. For what it is worth, I saw a similar warranty warning on the Marantz primary website .
If I had to guess, and it would be purely a guess, I'd say Denon is a Japanese company.
For some reason, maybe dating back 40 years, I thought that Marantz was a U. S. company. Maybe they were bought out?
The Rat.
Bernard, Denon and Marantz are Japanese companies which merged about three years ago to form a joint holding company, D&M Holdings(figures), located in Sagamihara City. Of course they have operations and local headquarters in many countries; Denon is in Pine Brook, N.J.
John:
Looks like my "guess" was dead on!
The Rat.
This is long but may save you several $$$ as it did for me.
Received my Epic 80-500 system last week. Just got those out of the box and the custom finish and grills are impressive.
Regarding hardware. I have been in the market for 3 months reading all the boards. Demoing several mods and finaly decieded on the Denon 3805.
I got pricing from all the local vendors and the best anyone would do is $1,050 plus tax.
Went to denon web site for authorized Etailers and Dakmart came up with the best selection and offered a full 1year warranty on the receiver and 1year full warranty on the 3910 DVD was considering.
Did more web searching on Dakmart. Found several Negative but mostly positive. Finally called the owner and got his version. Also called Denon and here is their reply
gDear Glen,
gYes Dakmart is one of our refurb dealers. If you have a problem with
them for some reason, you can contact one of our other refurb dealers
at the following link. Thank you for your feedback regarding this dealer
and sorry for the delayed response.
http://www.usa.denon.com/dealers/dealers.asp?l=1#REFURB
Best Regards,
J. McGuinness
Denon Electronics (USA), LLC
19C Chapin Road, Suite 205
Pine Brook, N.J. 07058-9385
j_mcguinness@denonnj.com
(973) 396-0810 Main x492
(877) 983-3666 Toll Free x492
(973) 396-7492 Direct
(973) 396-7459 Faxh
Here is Denon reply after I told them I was considering buying the DVD player and wanted to know about the software / Firmware.
gAs far as delivery, best to get with your dealer. Yes they should come
with all of their accessories. The DVD player will come with the Denon
Link cable. The firmware in the DVD player will be the latest version
available at the time of refurb. Ifm sure by the time you get your units,
a newer version firmware will be out. You can check at the following
link.
http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp
Denon Link will work on both units.
Best Regards,
J. McGuinnessh
So I bought the 3805 < $800 and 3910< $900
Conclusion. Dakmark sells Bstock, Referb units with warranty and is verified by Denon as an authorized internet dealer.
I can tell you the discount pricing was extreme compared with the local shops offered all for around $3K for the pair. You can find great deals if you do your research.
Good hunting.
Hey thanks GEB!!!! I'll go to the Dakmark website a little later on this evening and take a look. That one year warranty is just GREAT.
Someone mentioned that they got a Denon on ubid. I went to that website and ubid's warranty is for only 90 days. That isn't very long.
My only experience with a "refurbished" unit was with a Toshiba laptop that I bought for my daughter. I had nothing but trouble with it. It went back to the repair shop several times. It came with only a 90 day warranty, but Toshiba extended the warranty because I had so much trouble with it from the get-go. This left a very bad impression about refurbished gear!
I was looking at the Spearit Sound website at some NAD gear and saw the nominclature "blemished carton." Can anyone tell me what the definition of "blemished carton" is? All boxes look blemished by the time they arrive at my home.
Actually, the box of one of my M80s was pretty well beat up when it arrived last week. However, Axiom does an excellent job packaging their speakers. The M80 wasn't damaged, but I sure was worried when I first saw the box.
Now, for the definition of "blemished carton?"
The Rat.