How about a few more comments, both pro and con, on using M60s instead of QS8 for the rear surround speakers.

What say the tribe?

If you mean in a 7.1 system and using the QS-8's as side surrounds, then I'd have to say ohh yeah!! Because I've been thinking about that myself.

But in a 5.1 I think you might lose something (during movies) NOT having a 'true' surround like the QS-8.

JMHO but hearing from the experts on this would be interesting.

Rat, i posted my thoughts on something similar quite some time ago. Years to be exact. (Hard to find posts now i imagine).

It would be a 5.1 system, at least for the next couple of years.

chess: a very interesting test. I'm going to take a hard look at the M22 versus the Qs8's specs.

That depth charge sound on U 571 is something else, isn't it. As I mentioned, the wife and I watched it again last Friday. What a difference with true Dolby 5.1, the M80s, and the VP-150.

Anyone else have comments and/or comparisons?

If you've not heard the Qs8's yet, I would reserve judgement until you do.
You will get lots of differing opinions about direct as opposed to difuse surround speakers, and I fall into the difuse camp.
The Qs8's are fantastic surround speakers. There are some on this board that have even offered the opinion that they are, pound for pound, the best speaker that Axiom makes.
Mine made more of a difference in my enjoyment of my system for movies than even my 60's.

I run M22's for surround and love them for this job. (Listen about 50-50 music-movies) I compared them with the QS4's and just found I liked the effect that the direct speaker gave me. Although I must say that when I move to a different house I will most likely try a pair of QS8's as surround due to the overwhelming amount of praise for these little speakers.

I think that my room size and setup had a lot to do with my prefering the 22's for surround. If I had the cash I would love to try 60's in the back as I loved the extra performance of the 60's as mains in my system compared with the 22's that I first ran.

I'm with you Seabear on this one. The Qs8's are probably my favorite speaker of the bunch. They do what they are supposed to do, surround you, as opposed to a direct radiating speaker. If you think about the movie theaters, especially the ones that are THX certified, the side/rear walls are lined with direct radiating speakers. The Quadpolar design replicates this environment as it was intended for home theater.

I think one question you should ask yourself is what do the owners themselves have? Amie/Ian have QS8s for surrounds and since they are the owners cost is not a problem. If they wanted, it wouldnt be a problem for them get 7 M80s but they don't. Im sure Alan can also provide a much better explanation on which way to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't using a direct radiating speaker make the sweet spot much smaller than a quadpolar surrounds?

I would go with M60s (or 22s, 2s, whatever) for a pure 5.1 music system but QS8s for a dual-use or HT system. The QS8s are very good at making your room seem much larger than it really is, which is a real plus for HT.

If they read these threads, maybe Amie, Ian and/ or Alan could give us a few comments and things to consider.

I will be using my surrounds for HT, 99% of the time, so that is what I will optimize for.

If you listen to music a lot, then M60s as surrounds I think would kick the QS8s behind. I am experimenting with M22s for surrounds because I listen to more and more music these days. For music, it's no contest.

If you watch movies...it's the other way around.

Just my opinion...

I know what I'd do if they came out with 6.5" drivered QS10s(!)

I'd get me somma those audiophile grade DPDT switches and add me the capability to go with that which worked best for each situation!!

(Now how DOES one work around WAF-full range inexpensive M40s AND QS10s in the back of the room would be a perfect 5.1 addition to complement my M50s and M3 center up front! Wa-Hoo!)

Alan: how about it, what are some of the trades in using QS8s versus M60s for the rears?

Thanks In Advance.

Any more comments or comparisons?

I will be using my surrounds for HT, 99% of the time, so that is what I will optimize for.

If this statement is true then without question QS-8's

Also, if you don't like them they're smaller.... therefore easier to return

After I received the email from JC, QS8s are the way I think that I am going to go.

You made a great choice Mr. Rat, you will love your Qs8's, heck while your at it, order 2 pairs for 7.1

Rat,
I'm really pleased with my 8's. If I had a place for backs I'd buy another pair.

Near term, 7.1 is out of the question because of the difficulty of speaker placement. Current receiver only has 5.1 capability, but that will change "soon."

That is ok, the Qs8's will make you feel like you have 7.1, they are that good

I've mentioned this several times in the past, but it's been awhile so I'll say it again...

I set my room up for 7.1 for awhile and didn't find the difference between it and 5.1 worth the cost of the extra speakers and extra two channels of amplification. I ended up taking the M2i's down (I was using them for the rears) and put them upstairs on my computer. I'm enjoying them MUCH more in that capacity. The QS8's are amazing surround speakers. I honestly think 5.1 is enough for 90% of rooms out there.

The QSs sure do keep surprising. I was watching a Stargate episode from a few years ago (off DVD) where there were a lot of construction noises going on in the background.

Three times I got up and walked around the basement because I was sure the dogs were getting into trouble somewhere (from the noises). None of the sounds were even remotely close to where the QS8s were mounted -- you may remember that one is mounted way high on a close wall and the other is perched about 15' away on a pair of soup cans -- I had to replay that section of the DVD a couple of times before I believed the sounds were coming from the surrounds.

I would not be surprised that you are absolutely correct. I may get a receiver or seperates that have 7.1, but I'm not going to hook it up any time soon.

I have a similar but not identical question and found this discussion very interesting. I have a B&K AVR 507 7.1 receiver-(150 x 7) and a Mitsubishi WS-711 65 " RPTV soon to be located in a new home with a basement room that is finished/carpeted and roughly 18 feet wide and 24 feet long, prewired with 12 gauge speaker wire in 7 locations-three spots along front wall where TV will be located, two spots on rear wall about 7 feet high with 7 1/2 or 8 foot ceiling (I think) and about 10 feet apart; and then two side spots-one on left, one on right located midway between front and rear wire locations. My questions are these:

1) Should I opt for a 7.1 system or leave two channels idle and assemble a 5.1 system?

2) Should I purchase four M80tis to use for the main fronts and "main" rears, and then use two QS8s for the two sides in a 7.1 system? Can or should I also do this in a 5.1 system-i.e. use two M80Tis instead of two QS8s on the rear wall? Or, am I engaging in overkill and/or wasting money and degrading the listening experience by going with M80Tis on the rears? I would estimate my music v. movies use is about 70% music listening and 30% movie viewing. If you have alternative suggestions about which Axioms to use and where I would greatly value your comments and suggesions. Sorry that this is somewhat lengthy and rambling-I am planning on making a purchase within the next week and would love to get this system up and running. I am not very knowledgable in this area so thanks for your time and any suggestions or opinions you can offer to assist me.

Let's see...

1. Your room is a great candidate for a 7.1 system (many aren't) because you have enough length that you don't have to cram the rear speakers right behind the listener. Doesn't mean you have to get 7.1 immediately but definitely plan for it eventually. You have enough room length that the M80s can be out from the back wall a bit, which really seems to help.

2. My room is smaller than yours (13x23) but I found that having QS8 surrounds really added to the "big movie theater" experience. My first thought would be to stay with QS8 surrounds.

3. For that room size, definitely go with M60 or M80 mains. I don't know how well the B&K will drive into a 4 ohm load; if you can't be confident it will handle M80s (4 ohm) well then M60s will be mighty fine in that room as well.

4. Some receivers (not mine AFAIK) will let you play 5.1 music with the surround channel going to the rear speakers instead of the surrounds. This is great because you can run multipolar surrounds for movie effects and have the surround channels on music go to your direct rears. If the B&K won't do that then I imagine a switch box would be pretty easy to set up. I need to look into that for my room as soon as I hook up the rear speakers.

5. I don't know if the sound levels going to the rear speakers are enough to make full use of M80 rears but there are some arguments for having full range rears (the sub will carry the bass from smaller rears but the sub is normally at the front -- some people say they can tell the difference when there is either a second sub at the back or full range rears/surrounds.

6. My first thought would be M60s or M80s for mains and rears, QS8s for surrounds, VP150 center. Make sure the surrounds are mounted high on the wall and either level with or a bit behind your listening position. If you want to spend a bit less getting started, you could get most of the enjoyment from a 5.1 system and add the rear 60s/80s later. If you go with 5.1, remember to hang the surrounds further back on the side walls particularly for music.

7. PM Dennis ("Tharkun") if you want some real world experience with a 7.1 system using M80s front and rear. Pmbuko and Kcarlyle (sp ?) have also heard his system and can comment. I can't say for sure whether having M80 rears gives you your money's worth over (say) M22 rears but listening to Dennis' system is apparently quite an experience.

sly: why don't you pose the question to the experts at Axiom? I was a little confused after all the discussion on this thread, so I asked Axiom my question. There is a place elsewhere on this board to ask them questions. JC had a reply to me in less than a day. He convinced me that I should use the QS8s not MT60s. And, that is what I will get next month. Of course, my audio is for HT not music, so there could be a big difference.

sly: here is what JC sent to me. I don't think that he would mind my posting it to this board.

"In a typical Home Theatre Application, you want the sound coming from the surround speakers to immerse you as much as possible. 99% of the time, you want to shy away from the acuity of a direct radiating speaker to avoid any possible chance to localise the emitting source of sound and destroy the enveloping sound field. You want and need some precision in the surround sound field but you don't want this precision to rob you of the sense of total immersion.

Axiom QS surround speakers are the perfect surround speakers. They will give you the maximum sound clues possible to create the perfect illusion of presence and will always prevent the introduction of information that could and would cause your immersion field to collapse. Axiom QS surround speakers are the ideal speakers to faithfully and exactly reproduce the movie sound engineer's intent.

Axiom M60Ti are speakers of exceptional qualities and virtues which for a Home Theatre surround sound field application will, unfortunately (in most cases), work against the desired results of the ideal surround sound field reproduction.

I also invite you to read Alan Lofft's opinion (my esteemed colleague and Axiom Senior Audio Expert) on this subject :
I also prefer QS8-type surrounds for music playback, because of the generous listening area they deliver while still retaining directional acuity for sounds or music hard-mixed to a rear channel. Others disagree on this point, believing that DVD-Audio and SACD multichannel music should be heard with direct-radiating rears. In my experience, QS8 type surrounds are superior for music because the "sweet spot" is not critical at all, whereas using direct radiators at the rear produces a very critical sweet spot. In my tests using direct-radiating rears with DVD-Audio and SACD, the illusion collapses to the nearest speaker when you shift your seat a foot or so. Using QS8s/QS4s, this doesn't happen.

Thanks again for your e-mail ! Please don't hesitate to contact me directly anytime - my contact information is below - or call the Axiom toll-free line at 1-866-244-8796 - any of our Audio Experts would be pleased to help."

I do love my Qs8's. I wish I had room behind me for 7.1. I'd buy 2 more.