OK, Christmas is approaching, and I am trying to convince my wife that I need to get a EP500 or EP600. Since the room for the new HT area is around 7700 Cubic Ft, I think one of them will perform better overall than my 350. Don't get me wrong, I love the 350, and it would do fine I'm sure, but all this talk on this forum about how everyone loves it's bigger brothers is giving me a case of Upgrade-itis..
I was tossing the idea of getting a second 350 to balance out the LFE's more evenly. But I may go with a 500 or 600 instead, if I can swing it financially.
So what do you guys think? Is there a lot of difference between the two, besided the specs? The 600 is huge man, it would make my 60's look like M22's. Not sure if I would go with the horizontal or vertical model yet.
Thanks in advance for your ideas...
Randy
All of this recent discussion about the 500 and 600 kind of makes me get the itch, too. But let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment: For the cost of an EP600 you could pick up two Hsu VTF-3s and even out the room response nicely, plus save $300 in the process.
...Or you could get one really cool, honkin' EP600!
The WAF on the 500 is better. You would be very happy with the 500.
BUT, if you can swing it. Get the EP600 or twin EP500s for that big room.
The 8 o'clock setting on my 500 is about all I can take with the volume at -15.
Did you inquire about a trade-in?
I'd sell the EP350, and put that money towards two EP500's.
Dude, this is America. Bigger is better
My understanding is that adding a second subwoofer will help you with capacity ONLY if they are co-located (stack one 350 on top of the other one or similar placement). Adding a second unit and having them located separately provides the opportunity to smooth out nulls and fine tune the room response, but at the cost of significant setup. That is, it might make the response smoother, but it will not meaningfully help you increase the db's. Some scientist among us will help clarify, I'm sure.
You know the "right thing" is to simply move the 350 to the new room and then decide, but I understand (thanks to Larry) that this is about timing as well as choices and balance.
If I were you... I'd go for the most new Axiom subwoofer technology I could afford. Personally, I would much rather have either a 500 or 600 than two 350's. Did you call Alan yet?
FO the 600. You know that's what you want.
Randy, PM Craigsub and ask him your question.
In reply to:
Randy, PM Craigsub and ask him your question
Please no. I want to hear what the master of subs has to say. Really!
Randy you may want to try connecting your existing 350 up with whichever (
subliminal message to follow) 600 sub you decide on to see if that duo may fill the room, I'm fairly certain (ok, quite positive!) they will.
I was contemplating a second 600 for my new 2800 cu/ft room but after speaking with an extremely helpful fellow from Axiom with very similar room dimensions was convinced that a pair of 600s may be too much and I may want to try my 350 with the 600 to see how it works out. He told me that he tried his 350 with the 600 but really couldn't tell much difference due to the 600s output. Since I have it I'm going to try it anyway....you may want to do the same.
Let me know how you like the new 600, er, uh...whichever sub you decide on.
The secret to getting a big budget item approved by your wife is to show her that the benefits are significantly better than the opportunity cost. Meaning the money could not possibly be spent any better. At $1150, the EP500 will be a tough sell.
I know that I'm up sh*t creek in this department until my wife finally gets her own kayak. She been holding it over my head for some time and now I can't really argue anymore.
Know of any good kayaks for less than $1000, anyone?
Thanks Mike, good advice, however, I do want to stay with the same finish, mansfield beech...
Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. I have also thought about keeping the 350, however, financially not sure I can swing it without selling it first. I do have a buddy that is very close to getting some Axioms in the beech color, so I could sell him my sub and possible afford one of his bigger brothers...
Randy, as Jack suggested, contact craigsub. In the GTG we just did, the EP500 proved to be a killer box. We actually discussed the fact that 2 of the 500s would be a much better solution than a 600. For the additional $$$, the 600 (based on Craig's review of both of them) might not be of great value.
If you can sell the 350 and think about the FO pricing (and/or matbe contact Amie to see if a 2 fer deal can be struck), I beleive you will be much better off.
Ray
Thanks Ray and Jack, I just read the other thread on the sub test at Craigs palace. I may have missed this, but how big of a room was used? I'm sure I would be very pleased with the 500's performance, heck I'm pretty happy with my 350 which used to be king of the hill...
In reply to:
Know of any good kayaks for less than $1000, anyone?
Hey, what a happy coincidence! We're very close indeed to Swift Canoes and Kayaks, another Dwight business. Bring the whole family up and get everybody a new toy!
It was a BIG room; over 4000 cubic feet, I believe. All the real bass heads in attendance agreed that Craig needed two of any sub to fill that room. As for me, I had a headache from just one. Just the THOUGHT of an additional sub made me queasy, and gave me vertigo.
I feel reasonably safe in saying that in any normal sized room, one will do the job in spades.
Well the room, before I added the AV closet was 30ft x 30ft x 9ft ceilings = 8100 huuuuuge baaaaby... Right now I have not furniture or carpeting down there and the 350 does ok, I get a lot of relection as to be expected. I'm sure once we get carpeting and start filling the room with the pool table and other furniture things will change...
Randy did PM me - and for that size room, I suggested an EP-600. The logic was that the $$$$ for the 600 are possible without Randy getting on TOO much trouble - and the 600 can handle a BIG room. Twin 500's are even better, but I think Randy might be in the dog house over that...
What if I were to keep my 350 instead of sell it, and then go with a 500? The price would be about the same as putting the sale money towards a 600....
Randy
That is actually a pretty decent idea. They would give you about 4 dB higher SPL from 25 Hz and up (over the 600), and the 350 and 500 are in the same size cabinet. Keep in mind, for the SPL increase, which you will want in a room that size, they will need to be co-located.
Can you expand on co-locating subs? I'm guessing this refers to putting one near the front of the room, and the other near the back for a better blend?
Thanks a bunch..sorry I'm still not up on all the techy audio terms.
Co-Locating means either stacking them or putting them together.
Man that's a big room you have Randy.After the sub upgrade it's my opinion you need to get yourself some M80s
Oh now Wid, don't do that to this Iowaaaan.
Actually it is probably closer to 7600 cu ft now, since I built a huge AV closet, next to the HT area, still pretty darn big though. The HT portion probably makes up about 2800 of the total space. the rest of the room will be a pool table area, bar, etc...
Is that why the 600 has such a huge cabinet, to give you the same results of colocating 2 smaller subs?
The 80s will work great in that BIG room
.After that a nice 300 watt amp will be in order
In reply to:
Bring the whole family up and get everybody a new toy!
I'm beginning to think the answers to all my problems can be found in Canada.
In reply to:
I'm beginning to think the answers to all my problems can be found in Canada.
You're not alone in that thinking.
In reply to:
and the 350 and 500 are in the same size cabinet
The 350 is not as long as the 500, right? But the 350 would certainly stack on top fo the 500, just not the other way around.
I have 2 500's that are not co-located. I put one in the front and one in the back of the room. I did this to try to even out the response in the room. I haven't felt the need to co-locate as I feel I get plenty of volume from these 2 beasts. In fact, I have to keep the volume knobs and receiver sub adjustment pretty low just to keep them calibrated with the rest. My room is under 4000 cu. feet however.
In a 7600+ cu. foot room I can imagine you would want the extra SPL output. A 2nd sub will give you 3dB more output, or 6 dB if it's stacked on the other, or at the least next to each other in a corner.
If it were me (YMMV), I'd probably want the 600 in a corner over two other subs stacked for 2 reasons. 1) I think the 600 would look nicer in the room than 2 smaller subs stacked (IMO), and 2) It's cooler to have the EP600. Afterall it is Axiom's flagship subwoofer. You won't have to suffer from further upgrade-itis.
The downside to a single 600 as Craig mentioned, is that the 2 stacked subs will give you roughly 4 dB more output (115 vs. 111 dB from the 600). But for me the cleaner look of the single 600, and simplicity of having only one set of sub controls to fiddle I'd go with the 600. Not to mention you get a little bit more extension with the 600 (down to 17 from 20 Hz).
Best of luck on making the decision. A tough one for sure. But remember, either way the system will rock.
Tom, I'll try the clarification. When two subs are used, output is increased regardless of whether they're placed close together or widely separated. When widely separated the increase is the same 3dB experienced when any two speakers are playing the identical signal. When the two sub drivers are located within about 1/4 wavelength of each other(e.g. about 3 1/2 feet at 80Hz)they reinforce each other and can provide as much as an additional 3dB increase, for a total increase of as much as 6dB.
The advantage of the widely separate location, although it doesn't provide as much increase in level, is that it can help in counteracting troublesome room modes. The basic positioning, as discussed more fully by Dr. Toole and his colleagues at Harman in the paper which has been referred to here several times, is to place the subs in the middle of opposite walls(either front and back or to each side). This would be especially useful in a room that's square or nearly so.
Randy, I can't tell you what to buy, for that's not in my place to do. However, I will be placing my order for the EP600 after Christmas!
Sutter
In reply to:
The downside to a single 600 as Craig mentioned, is that the 2 stacked subs will give you roughly 4 dB more output (115 vs. 111 dB from the 600).
Who in their right mind needs more than 111db of output?
Seriously.
I mean it.
Really.
Some need/want all the SPL they can get. But I agree that the 600 is a top performer on it's own, and thus my reccomendation.
In reply to:
Who in their right mind needs more than 111db of output?
Seriously.
I mean it.
Really.
Its not that you want to listen at levels way above 111db, you just want to know that even when playing at 111db and having it be perfectly clear, that you can still go louder and still be clean.
But SERIOUSLY
Who does need more than 111db. I have played my system at 110db for like 15 seconds and then brought it down like 12db (or into reality) and then giggled with the laugh that only an audio freak/geek can have.
My recommendation.
Two is better than one. Way more possibilities for getting your sound just right. Just think how much time we spend positioning one sub woofer for optimal bass and integration into our system. . .two subs and you have limitless possibilities.
Now where is that graph with one of the subs 12" out from the wall in the front left corner and the other sub 16.5 inches out from the wall and in the opposite corner both with a 25 hz bump and the crossover set to 60 hz etc etc etc etc etc etc
With the Thanksgiving Holiday I have 4 days to think of how I want to approach the wife on this one.
I did just get my 2000 Silverado Z71 payed off, so I won't have that payment anymore, hmmmm. I think having the 600 would impress all my visitors, man this thing is mamouthly huge.
Dave, I like your idea of having it stand in the corner. I'll have to do some pre measuring to see what would work best. I'm sure just having the horizontal version next to my center would work as well, or have it off to the side on one of the side walls.
Since I want my center to be a little higher off the ground, could a guy use the 600 to set the VP150 on top of below the screen? Or would the VP150 get bounced off onto the floor from all of the THUMPING?
In reply to:
Or would the VP150 get bounced off onto the floor from all of the THUMPING?
As much as the 600 weighs Randy I really don't think having anything sitting on top of it would be any problem. I remember wrastlin' with that thing for a while trying to get it unboxed and set up by myself. I probably looked just like that monkey with a football.
Every now and then I'll go to move it a little and remember just heavy it really is, it has a way of not getting moved around too much in my household!
Man that 600 is gonna look good next to your M80s when you get them
Subliminal Wid to the rescue!
That is ok Wid and Brother, keep rubbing it in
I'm waiting for the 100's to come out...
I was thinking if I flipped the VP150 over, the two angles of the VP150 and 600 might work nicely and be pretty level, any thoughts?
I think you need a second VP to go with the 600 and 80's.
In reply to:
I think you need a second VP to go with the 600 and 80's.
Mike brings up a good point
Randy do what I did buy her a new car.
You bought Randy's wife a new car ? Wow, you are a generous guy !
In reply to:
I was thinking if I flipped the VP150 over, the two angles of the VP150 and 600 might work nicely and be pretty level, any thoughts?
I keep looking at our 600 / VP150 and I can't think of how to make that work. We mounted our 150 with a Full Metal Bracket above the sub, and that has worked well. If you wanted to put the 150 right on the 600, I think you would have to build a little brace of some description. But I'm not too handy - maybe there is a way?
I still say two EP500's. Quality over quantity.
Craig, I heard through the grapevine that is your line of work, can't you set a guy up.
Actually, it is my wifes turn to get the next vehicle. She currently drives a 95.5 Isuzu Rodeo that still is like the day we drove it off the show room floor. I just payed off my Z71 Silverado Ext Cab. She is looking at the 2006 Honda Pilots and the 2006 Ford Explorers. I've always been a GM man, but there have been a lot of issues with the Trailblazers I've heard.
You guys are great
Heck, my buddy Sutter is trying to get me to get some Monoblocks now...
ps: Sutter, got your PM, which meant a lot to me during these times, your one great person, not matter what the rest of these other folks say....
just jokin man. Anyway, we got up to the inlaws about an hour ago, and so far things are going fine. Thanks again, I'll PM ya back when I have some more time..
Randy
In reply to:
Sutter, got your PM, which meant a lot to me during these times, your one great person, not matter what the rest of these other folks say.... just jokin man. Anyway, we got up to the inlaws about an hour ago, and so far things are going fine. Thanks again, I'll PM ya back when I have some more time..
No problem buddy, you just be safe driving home. Pick yourself up a paintball gun before ya leave and if you see any looney drivers on the road, well, give em' a free paint job. Tell em' Sutter didn't like the way their car looked driving in that mannor. lol
Oh, and I'll buy your rump a pair of M-Blocks.
My Christmas list for others is always a mile long anyways. I have this thing for suprising the hell out of my friends come the holidays. Where I come from, we believe in taking care of our friends and hooking them up.
I actually find it quite amusing, cause they all say the same thing every year, that is if they catch wind of my plans. Oh you don't have to do that. Of course I just simply reply with the ol' Oh I know, and then I follow through with my plans anyways.
It's just one of things I guess. I feel good to making others feel good. I feel good bringing a little happiness into their lives. It just feels good to do good for other people. In my opinion there ain't enough people who goes out of their way for others, so I try to pick up for their slack. Yeah, I've always been crazy, but it keeps me from going insane.
I hope everyone is having or had, a really great Thanksgiving. If any of you have any left overs, feel free to let me know and I'll be more then glad to come over and help ya finish it off.
lol
Sutter
Sirquack. You sound like you are almost there on a second sub which I would heartily recommend based on that large room of yours. I don't think you can ever have enough sub headroom. I have an EP600 which I am very pleased with on one centre sidewall and an Ultra on the other side of a 3500cf room. Going from one sub to two subs has made an enormous difference in sound quality in the room and really smoothed nulls and peaks throughout so bass is uniform in any seat. My decision now is whether to sell the Ultra and replace it with another EP600 or buy 4 500s collocating two one each sidewall. Because aesthetics are also a concern I just might go for a second 600.
My recommendation is sell the 350 and buy either 2 500s, 2 600s or better still 4 500s strategically spaced in that large room.
Also I wouldn't place the centre speaker on the sub because passive vibration of the centre's drivers may become audible. I think this problem is worse if the centre has a port. I tried that setup for a while with the centre on the 600 and have sinced moved the sub from below the screen.
Sirquack, I have never heard the EP600 but I have heard the EP350 and the EP500. The difference is huge. The 350 is a good sub but the 500 will make your ears rattle. I cant see needing anymore bass then this thing puts out. I think you will be pretty happy with a EP500.
Thanks so much guys, while I'm sitting here still trying to digest my Thanksgiving food from my parents house, and then my inlaws, I'm also trying to digest my options on the sub.
I guess if I was going to use 2 subs, I'll probably keep the 350 and then add a 500. It will all come down to my budget and my wifes feedback. Based on my purchases over the last year, it may be a tuff sell, but it seems she always gives in eventually.
I"m pretty darn lucky. Dad always said to find a rich, good looking farm girl, well she's got the looks, and she did grow up on a farm, still waiting on the $$$.
I guess we have been blessed with 2 great boys, a nice house, and good friends, which includes my Axiom family.
I hope to talk to her during the car ride back home on Sunday about the sub situation. I need to make sure I take Sutters advice and get that paintball gun before we leave.
Well alrighty then, I can see it now...
You and the happy Missus while she is driving home from a great couple of days spent with family and friends, 'kids in the back bangin' like Charlie Watts'...all is good. Whenever she is blissfully bragging about this or that neat little option on her brand new ride just kind of slip in as a side note 'Oh btw, I ordered up a pair of 80s and another sub 'n center ch...no biggie' (need to make it fast like you just ordered a double whopper "Oh...a small order a fries ana coke with that also"
In no time you'll have the goodies at your door step and she'll never know what hit her...get it all connected and be sure to slip in her mostest favorite movie for the first viewing and you'll never hear another word. Be sure to wash her brand new car for her the first couple of times...they like that!
I've always liked Goodies powders myself, they work really fast!
Okeedokie, be sure to give us an update on Monday...OK?
In reply to:
I'm sitting here still trying to digest my Thanksgiving food from my parents house, and then my inlaws
You digested your inlaws?!
>>You digested your inlaws?!
Obviously not. Can't you read ?
He said he was still digesting them.
You may need an industrial-grade plunger.
Well had a long talk with the wife last night, and I think I have the WAF. Now it is up to which sub? With the 500 I could potentially move the house off its foundation. With the 600, it would be my neighbors. hmmm
(This image is
500 X
500 pixels. Hint. Hint. )
Go ahead and get the 500 Randy ... nothing like wondering what this picture would look like in
600 X
600 pixels.
I agree, based on all that you've shared with me, the 500 would be your best bet my friend.
Sutter
I would say get the biggest damn woofer your wife allows you to.You might only get this one chance, go for it get the 600.
Randy if your wife gives you the thumbs up go for the 600.
In reply to:
Randy if your wife gives you the thumbs up go for the 600.
Absooooolutely!
But I love my 500.
Hey buddy, well you're going to get more votes for the EP600, but I'll stand by all that I have shared with you. I'd get the EP500 due to do things we've discussed.
Sutter
Having had a good look at the large space I strongly recommend 2 subs. 2 500s placed under the screen between the mains would work well.
How about the best of both worlds...a horizontal EP600 under the screen and another sub (your current EP350 or an EP500) behind the couch?
You must think I work at IMAX or something, ha ha
$$$$$
Can you not get the EP600 and keep your EP350? Or does the sale of the EP350 help fund the new sub?
Financially I could just pay for a 500 or 600 outright, however, your correct, If I could sell the 350, it would help reduce the cost. I've talked to a few people that have mentioned sometimes having two subs can be a bit tricky to get a good blend. Most likely I'll just get one or the other. I was even thinking about getting another 350. Two 350's might give the 500 or 600 a run, however, they would not go as LOW.
How LOW can you go.....
Well guys, tonight was the night I made my decision. After talking to the wife and going over some of your feedback, I feel the best value for me is to go with the ..........
drum roll............see below....................
EP500
I'll keep the 350 for now, but most likely sell it at some point in the future. Maybe some day I'll get another EP500 for the opposite side of the room, but I think one is going to blow me out of the water....
Randy
Judging from what I've read, it looks like you should enjoy the heck outta that thing. It is always exciting to buy new toys. Way to make the rest of jealous, Randy. . .
Thanks man, there have been a lot of you that have made me jealous for a year, ha ha
Whoa, new sub new avatar. Didn't recognize you for a second.
Randy, I think you should purchase the 600.
Just kidding.
Good choice. Will be eagerly awaiting your thoughts after you properly set it up.
Randy waiting for his EP500
Randy upon the arrival of his EP500
Randy after hearing his EP500 for the first time
Sutter
Sutter, you need to take a class on using graphics in your posts, ha ha
I think he's a little excited for ya, that's all
.
You must have wireless internet on your contruction job?
We got sent home today because of road conditions.It started snowing at 5:30 or so this morning.There were no salt trucks out and a mess of car wrecks this morning tying up traffic all around the area.As ussual the first snowfall of the year and people forget how to drive.
I can relate, we live south of Des Moines about 6 miles. I counted 15 people in the ditch on the county road. I've lived in Iowa all my life, so I find it funny when these people move from out west or down south and think they can still drive 70 on ice.
In reply to:
Sutter, you need to take a class on using graphics in your posts, ha ha
well
on that suggestion.
Sutter
In reply to:
It started snowing at 5:30 or so this morning.
Snow?
I've believe I've read about that strange weather phenomenon before ... I also think I've seen it on Christmas cards, the Weather Channel and a Charlie Brown TV special. I'm pretty sure.
Can't wait to hear your impressions of the 500 and 350/500 combo. When are you expecting?
I hope to order it today or tomorrow, probably will go with the Factory Outlet to save the 10% also....
BrotherBob, we received 4 inches of snow over night, and it is heading towards Wid as we speak. Looks like a white Xmas this year...
In reply to:
BrotherBob, we received 4 inches of snow over night, and it is heading towards Wid as we speak. Looks like a white Xmas this year...
Oh man I don't want to hear that
In reply to:
we received 4 inches of snow over night, and it is heading towards Wid as we speak. Looks like a white Xmas this year...
You peps are so lucky, well, unless you just hate snow; but here where I'm at we seldom get any, and what we do get doesn't amount to much.
People can poke fun all they want, but to me, Christmas isn't Christmas without snow on the ground. I understand that if you live where you never get it, then it's irrelevant.
Western and Northern Kansas gets hammered with it every year, but Wichita being located where it is, heck we get ice, lots and lots of ice. Can't remember the last blizzard conditions we got here in Wichita, it was back in the 80's if memory serves. Well, we did get a pretty heavy snow fall back in 98', but generally speaking, we're lucky if we get more then an inch to 3" at a time, but it varies though. We do get snow every year, just seldom ever amounts to a lot. Truth be told, I don't care so much about the amount around Christmas, just that we have snow on the ground for Christmas is what I care about.
Sutter
A strong cold front made it down our way yesterday, we had to break out the long sleeves this morning. Brrrr, looks like it's going to be here for a couple of days.
Cold Temps
Ah shut up
I do miss 'snow days'. There's nothing better than being able to stay home because of snow. Turn up the heat, pop in a dvd and have a nice day off. I love how quiet it gets when it snows.
Not as much as I love being able to play tennis in December though.
Randy, so what was the deciding factor on your decision. Was it the placement issues? Just curious after all the discussion what it came down to for you.
Thanks and enjoy the sub. I know you will.
Thanks Dave,
It was a difficult decision that could have went either way. I think overall the 500 was the best value for what you get for the money. Financially, I could have afforded either. The size of the 600 was a factor somewhat, this thing is a monster.
Looking at the specs, they are very similar, at least in the way I would be using it, they will both perform when called upon. Yeah the 600 goes a bit deeper and has 100 more watts, but the 500 is very close.
Long term I'll possibly get a second 500 if I find I need one, just so everything is matched, and for now I still have my 350.
I just ordered the 500 this morning from the FO..
Thanks for the info. You are correct in that the 500 has better value to cost ratio compared to the 600. The 500 gets you 90% there at only 2/3's the price.
I'm very happy with my 500s. If money weren't an issue, I'd probably have 2 600s. But reality is hard to escape. And the 500 is a very smart choice.
Congrats again. Let us know your impressions when you get it. I'm curious to here your thoughts on how the 350 and 500 compare
I as well just requested the EP500 this afternoon. I can't wait for this new bad boy to arrive!
Sutter
Alright....
Now it seems that just about EVERYBODY has a 500 but me!
Not true...
I don't have one...
I do, however, have an SVS PB12-Plus/2...
I guess that kind of rules me out anyway, huh?
WhatFurrer
Not me, I have a Hsu
In reply to:
Alright....
Now it seems that just about EVERYBODY has a 500 but me!
Mark, 1-866-244-8796
Sutter
, oooh, that was funny! I didn't mean it like that buddy.
Naw... I don't have a 500 either....(although I'd really rather have one, the neighbors are happy that I don't!!
)
I am gettin' closer to "Real Sub" territory with the last couple(and future coupla more)changes though!
Sadly, I do not as well.
Sutter, your smileys still are not working.
In reply to:
Sutter, your smileys still are not working.
Hmmm, they seem to be working on my end. Maybe it's your browser. Others have been able to see them. Prehaps someone else can chim in and confirm that they are or are not working.
Sutter
I'll have to check it when I get home. Here at work I noticed that I can't get to the bestsmileys website your using for them.
They are working here. I'm using Firefox version 1.0.7
Working Here!
So's the EP500!
At our company, we have a product called Webwasher implemented that keeps people away from certain websites. I can't even get to that website. Funny I can't get to Denon.com either...
Randy,
The most important thing is you can access the Axiom website and you have an EP500 on order!
Sirquack, im glad you have the patience to wait for the Factory Outlet. I sure dont, thats for sure.
As for you guys talking about wanting snow. You guys are nuts! I just moved down from North Jersey (about 5 minutes from NYC) 7 months ago. Last winter we had like 13 feet of snow. I now live in Raleigh NC where it never really snows and I couldnt be happier!
I've lived in Iowa all my life, there has been winters where the snow was up to the gutters on our houses. You gotta love it, ha ha, just an excuse that I can stay home and listen to my new sub...
sirquack, with the new EP500 you have comming, if the snow barricades you in the house you can just turn the sub up and blow the snow the hell away from the house.
that is the plan, just open up the windows and put in a Subwoofer test CD and crank it up to the max...
>>>I've lived in Iowa all my life, there has been winters where the snow was up to the gutters on our houses.<<<
I can hear it now. "Aw baby come on, it's just for a few minutes 'till the snow gets
blown away from the house."
Uh huh.
EP500 just showed up at my door, and my gawd is that thing heavy!
That's what I call FAST too! Amie had told me it should ship out today, well long a behold the door bell just rang and sure enough, it was the Fed Ex man with my EP500!!!
Sutter
In reply to:
Amie had told me it should ship out today, well long a behold the door bell just rang and sure enough, it was the Fed Ex man with my EP500!!!
Wow. Did he drive it straight from Axioms' loading dock? See what kind of service Axiom offers?
Photos. We want photos! And Reports! Oh, and Photos!
{ahem} I have your tracking numbers in my draft email box! Sorry - I just found out a few mins ago we shipped it Friday. Friday FedEx is a beautiful thing - they just do everything they can to empty their warehouses! Hope it arrived safe there.
Amie,
Ah it's no problem, I'm just glad I was home. lol
I have yet to unbox this new bad boy, my back's still recovering from hauling it in from my garage.
Seriously though, Fed Ex did good. The box doesn't look like it was just smashed by closing elevator doors like they sometimes do coming from UPS.
Mark,
I'll be sure to post some pics before too long. A lot of friends have been giving me a hard time because I've had "Pics Coming Soon" stated on my website for quite some time now, and still no pics.
I'm in the middle of remodeling my theater room, so everything is a mess down there, but everything should be back up and running before too long. I'll defiantly post some pics of this bad boy though as soon as I can.
Sutter
In reply to:
I'll defiantly post some pics of this bad boy though as soon as I can.
Hey, if it's that big a deal, just forget I ever asked you!
No hurry on the pics, just when you get to it. We know you'll get to it as soon as you can. I'm interested in your opinion of the 500. And as to how it compares with the HSU VTF-3.
Nice to see you here Sutter.
In reply to:
I'm interested in your opinion of the 500.
I hope you will be as thrilled as I am! Congrats on the new arrival!
You know, I don't think spellcheck woulda helped with this one.
Where is my Tracking Number?
Oh yeah, I went through the Factory Outlet, so it will be a little longer. Sure is going to be a nice Xmas gift to myself, he he ha ha, dang I'm so gitty tonight..
I am a happy camper....I am a happy camper...
I just got that magic email, my 500 shipped today Fed Ex, so it looks like a Monday or Tuesday pickup day. I had it marked for Pick Up as nobody will be home during the day.
I am a happy camper.....I am a happy camper.......
Cool Stuff, SQ.
In order to keep my blushing bride happy, I am sending the EP-600's back and will be running four EP-500's instead.
The things a guy has to do to keep marital harmony.
You don't know how much I can relate to your comments.
OK. One each at the center of each side wall, I assume. But, where are you putting the other two?
My 500 arrives on Monday. Pant! Pant! Drool! Drool!
Ian actually suggested it to me. Besides, In January, we are adding twin Hsu VTF-3 HO's to the mix.
She does not know about that part yet.
I live by the philosophy: "It is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission" ...
Jack,, I will be doing lots of placement stuff - But I think it will be one in each corner as suggested by Dr. Toole (he has several suggestions, that just happens to work best for our room).
Looking forward to YOUR getting one, too.
When using the corner of a room, I assume you want to leave it a bit out from each wall?
That is a qualified "yes" ... Just tinker a bit with placement. Make sure your cords are not "jammed" into the wall.
I imagine he's co-locating them, 2 on each sidewall to match what he had before. Or possibly maybe the midpoint of all 4 walls, wasn't this the ideal for 4 subs according to the Harman paper?
In reply to:
In order to keep my blushing bride happy, I am sending the EP-600's back and will be running four EP-500's instead.
The things a guy has to do to keep marital harmony.
I understand completely Craig. That's why I have 2 500's and not 2 600's. Well, that and other reasons $$$. Certainly love the sound of the theater, subs and all the rest. Thank you Axiom!
Congrats buddy, soon you'll have your EP500 in hand, like me!
Sutter
I know I will have to play with things a bit, but based on this basic drawing, which corner would you guess will give me the best performance for the 500. Please note that the recessed HT area opens into a larger room that is almost 900 sq ft. The shorter wall is a little over 6ft long. My M60's are actually not angled in currently, they are next to the screen on both sides. SutterCane thought I might want to place it back near the sitting area?
thanks, Randy
In reply to:
Looking forward to YOUR getting one, too.
Yeah, but not as much as I am. However, I'm calm. I'm cool. I'm relaxed and in control.
You can hold the EP500 in one hand, man you must work out!
Congrats Sirquack. Can't wait for you to get it and hear your impressions.
Craig, you still are using the SMS1? I bet that will help you in finding your ideal placement.
In reply to:
I imagine he's co-locating them, 2 on each sidewall to match what he had before. Or possibly maybe the midpoint of all 4 walls, wasn't this the ideal for 4 subs according to the Harman paper?
I may also do that - after lugging the 600's and the Ultra's around - playing with the 500's will seem pretty easy.
We also have two 15 foot, a 25 and a 35 foot sections of the Balanced cables from Axiom. With the Daisy Chain ability, that will help with placement.
That's your 350 along the left side wall right? My thoughts are to put one sub up on the front wall between the center and right channel, and the other on the left side wall, maybe a little further back than where it is now. As for which sub where, I don't know.
Or maybe you could co-locate them next to each other on the side wall? You've got your work cut out for you now. By the time you are done, you too will be able to hold the EP500 in one hand (like Sutter)
If you're using a corner I suggest the you place the sub in the front left corner.That would give you the best response. You always try nearfield and see if you like it.
In reply to:
I know I will have to play with things a bit, but based on this basic drawing, which corner would you guess will give me the best performance for the 500. Please note that the recessed HT area opens into a larger room that is almost 900 sq ft. The shorter wall is a little over 6ft long. My M60's are actually not angled in currently, they are next to the screen on both sides. SutterCane thought I might want to place it back near the sitting area?
Sutter made a good suggestion - the next choice is the front left corner.
Right now Dave my 350 is actually over on the rightside along the shorter wall, with the driver facing towards the open room. My sub cable right now is very short. I will be building a stage below the screen also, with electrical, and I assume a long a$$ sub cable to reach over to the other wall.
If I decide to sell the 350 to recoupe some of the money for the 500, I assume based on Wid's response that I might get a better balance to use the Left corner? I guess I assumed if I used the right corner the LFE's may bounce off the longer wall on the left side and reflect more energy. Most likely I don't know what I'm talking about...
What the heck is nearfield Wid? Is that your home? ROADTRIPpppppp
That's what Sutter is talking about, locating the sub as an end table or behind your seating position.
In reply to:
Sutter made a good suggestion - the next choice is the front left corner.
Straight from the sub king himself. See Mr. Quack, I do know what I'm talking about! lol
Sutter
Is there any issues to worry about for longer cable runs to a sub. I'm thinking I would need about 35 ft or so to accomplish placing the sub back along the left wall near the seating positions?
Also, so I understand what everyone is saying, assuming I don't keep my 350. Option one is nearfield, and option 2 is left front corner?
Sorry if I sound like a newbie, I consider myself one. My post#'s only reflect that I hang on the internet way to much.
As far as the cable goes you would have no trouble with the length you mentioned. I would try both positions an see what works best for your room.I normaly like corner placement myself using one sub.
At 35ft or so, you'd be fine.
Sutter
I beat ya to it
In reply to:
I beat ya to it
lol
Sutter
Now that's just not right.
Sutter
One thing to check is getting the phase right between the 2 subs as well as the mains. Anytime you have different subs its something to be cognizant of after you get the placement right. I also agree that given the size of your space you should consider nearfield placement as well as the midwall.
I'm sticking to my 2 600s/2 500s setup which should arrive before Christmas. Initially I am going with the 600s in midwall placement with the 2 500s inside the mains under the screen. I'm also toying with the idea of using the 600s for LFE only and the 500s for redirected bass only. Should be alot of fun experimenting with these 4 great subs over the holidays.
I was concerned earlier this week about possible phase issues between the 600 and 500 but Ian as usual came to the rescue. He ran 95db sweeps on the 500, 600 and both simultaneously in the new anechoic chamber and the graphs showed the two subs blending perfectly with no phase problems. That sounds simple but it really is a testament to how well he designed these babies because very few different subs can can be used together without being out of phase near the tuning points. Got to love that Axiom service!
This girl seemed to brighten things up on AVS. In fact, there is a rumor that she could get Spiff to switch teams ...
While I realize she has nothing to do with the topic at hand, does anyone REALLY care ?
Craig,
You have to give us some warning
I was lying in bed while I was on the AVS forum, and my wife almost saw that picture.
She would have had my nuts and not let me play with you guys on the forums anymore.
Uhh......excuse me, but, who's got the Hershey's syrup?
Man Craig that chick is pretty darn fugly, I mean really, really, really darn fugly. I just can't seem to get past that nasty face she's sportin.
Wow, for a minute there, I thought I selected one of my other Favorites in IE.
I'd rather have my wife see this instead of my boss, but he liked it anyway, he is a marine, ha ha
In reply to:
Craig,
You have to give us some warning I was lying in bed while I was on the AVS forum, and my wife almost saw that picture. She would have had my nuts and not let me play with you guys on the forums anymore.
Important marital advice : At a time like thia, you look your wife in the eyes, and say: "Honey, that girl is just a tramp, and is nothing compared to you" ...
The key, gentlemen, is not keep a straight face while saying it ...
In reply to:
Man Craig that chick is pretty darn fugly, I mean really, really, really darn fugly. I just can't seem to get past that nasty face she's sportin.
She has a face ?
Shower! Shower! Shower!
Oops, that was my younger day's at the peeler bar!
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza."
-- Dave Barry
In reply to:
I just can't seem to get past that nasty face she's sportin.
What face?
I swear that's one of Bray's eye avatars on her...ummm..shirt...
Mark
You were reading my mind.
Anyone know the song "The Eyes Of Texas Are Upon You"?
If you guys just want to look at boobs all nite instead of talking about home theater, just go to
OneModelPlace. Hey.... where did everybody go?
(link is to my page, but go to "talent search" in the upper right, choose "models" and browse from there).
Mark,
You are so bad to MAKE me go there!
Mark, this is seriously good photography. Technically its flat out superb. I had no idea you had talent like this.
After a days' shoot I can clearly see why your eyes are bugged out.
Thanks Michael!
It's a new "genre" for me... they're all recent shoots of amateur models except the ones titled "Rachael" (which were done 6-7 years ago before I got out of photography) but I really wanted to put more than nudes on there; models who aren't looking to do nude work get scared off!
I had always wanted to pursue shooting nudes, but it was very difficult to get models in a conservatibe New England town....now the internet has changed that. Stupid thing is, I joined OMP a month ago, but have been too busy with Holiday deadlines to pursue any new shoots!
There are several images on there that I like, but a few I don't. I'm looking forward to shooting after the first of the year to increase the variety.
How did you like the sound of just the one 500, not enough ?
I am curious as well Sutter. How did the EP500 compare the the VTF-3
Ok, first question. Wid, oh heck no man, one is way more then enough. I just love the sub so much I wanted another. I'm a major bass freak when it comes to movies.
Greg, I first want to say, that I did, and still do, love the VTF-3 MK2. It's truly a remarkable sub, and it's very tough to beat for the money. Dr. Hsu really knows how to make good subwoofers, and it does hold up fairly well against the EP500 in some aspects.
However, I do find the EP500 to be significantly better on the whole; and I credit that to the DSP chip. There might be more to it then that, and there probably is. That I don't know, would have to ask Craig.
For anybody who wants one of these subs and can afford to get one, do so! You won't in this life time regret it. However, if you can't afford one, and the VTF-3 MK 2 is more in line with your budget, then by all means, do NOT think twice about purchasing one, because it will NOT disappoint you and you'll find yourself in bass heaven bliss.
As some of you know, I'm battling a pretty severe case of the flu right now. Once I get to feeling better, if it doesn't kill me first, I'll be writting a full review on the EP500. Along with that will also be a comparision between the EP500 and the VTF-3 MK 2.
Sutter
Randy, if you wind up using just the 500, the front left corner should be used since it's "tighter", i.e. farther from a large opening, than the right corner. If you use both, the Harman paper would indicate that they should be placed mid front wall and mid back wall(exactly mid, not just almost). If you wanted to use the two and maximize output(as much as 3dB more output)rather than trying to minimize the effect of room modes, they should be co-located in the front left corner.
Cool,
I actually own the EP500 and love it as well. I chose it after much debate over the VTF-3. Like you said, I am sure I would have liked the HSU as well, but I am glad I made the choice I did. I look forward to your full review when you are feeling better.
Greg
Thanks John, you teach me new stuff every day.
thanks everyone....
Sutter, I can't believe your still married....
just jokin man...
Na, the wife doesn't usually mind. She just gets even by making me get her something nice in return, which I don't mind at all if it allows me to get all that I want for myself.
Sutter
Well my sub is out in Newark, NJ right now, which is interesting, my other speakers went through the hub down in Kentucky I believe, oh well, hope it arrives on Monday.
Wow! A 2nd 500 on the way. Great news! Another family member so quickly.
nope just the first one...
Sorry. I thought yours had arrived.
I'm so confused. Everybody seems to be joining the club!
I'd sure accept one from an Xmas present, ha ha.
In reply to:
I'm so confused. Everybody seems to be joining the club!
I'm with you, bugbitten. It seems everybody is getting these. You'd think Axiom is giving these guys away (hint hint)!
Santa, I've been very good this year.
I seem to remember you
sharing an intimate moment with a canine earlier this year.... If that doens't put you on the naughty list, I don't know what does.
Yeah my 500 is now in Memphis, TN...
I'm tempted to just road trip down there and get it today...
LOL, hijack the Fed Ex truck, "I Want My Furniture"! Or in this case, Sub.
Sutter
Santa doesn't have to know about that.
Shame on you.
I'm pretty sure Jack read that thread, anyway...
Poor Jack. . .
See, I'm sticking up for you, Jack.
(I could also use some QS8s)
Wow Jack, I didn't know you could ice skate. lol
Sutter
Just checked again, it is at the sorting facility here in Des Moines, Iowa. I'll be picking this baaaby up first thing tomorrow at Fed Ex. Totally Awesome Dudes .....
That's awesome bud, but you do realize though that the rest of the night until dawns early light is going draaaaaaaaag! lol
Sutter
I hope it arrives with the santa hat on it.
Just went and picked it up over lunch and ran it home. Dang this thing is heavy.
Good thing I ate my wheaties this morning. Can't wait to hook this bad boy up and see what it can do....It barely fit in the front seat of my truck, good thing I didnt' get a 600, otherwise I would have needed a trailer.
Hahaha, well now didn't I tell you that thing is heavy!
I'm glad to you see you got it! Have you unboxed it yet?
Sutter
I'm sure it must be quiting time!
Or maybe you don't feel well and should go home for the rest of the day!
Congrats Randy,
Remember, bend at the knees when picking up that bad boy!
Cheers,
Shaun
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not."
-- H.L. Menc!
Hey Jack!
Congratulations! Lovin' your sub is good, but don't take it too far or Mom will be callin' the authorities on 'ya!
Is anyone else finding his leg wrapped around the arm of the couch somewhat creepy?
Jack......you are supposed to HOOK IT UP, not SLEEP on it!!
Psst...Jack. You shouldn't be taking pictures of yourself practicing the Kama Sutra on the 500 and posting it here.
thanks
No Sutter, I had to get back to work so I carried it inside, by MYSELF, and will check it out tonight. I did open the top flaps to take a peek inside....
Bugbitten, I would love to go early, however, we are down to one vehicle right now. A few days ago the 4x4 system in my wifes Isuzu Rodeo started acting up and she could not get out of our development. I've been dropping her and our oldest son off at school, and taking our youngest to daycare everyday. That reminds me, I need to call that dang mechanic and find out what is going on...
Thanks Shaun, yep I remember the bending part from my lifting days.
It was just hard to get my arms around that box and man handle it... Funny you find that extra strength when your talking about such an expensive item...
Hey Jack, are you practicing the Suzane Summers bun workout, ha ha I'm sure I'll be just as happy tonight, ha ha
Re: Is anyone else finding his leg wrapped around the arm of the couch somewhat creepy?
Actually, I thought that maybe Jack was falling off the couch and grabbed the sub on the way down? Either way, it's a funny photo! Keep up the good work Jack!
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not."
-- H.L. Mencken
I had to carry mine inside myself too, and you're right, it was a pickle to get a good grip or hold of.
Wait til ya lug that beast downstairs, there's a work out for ya.
Well, it was for me anyways. lol
Sutter
Having just carried two EP-600's out to our garage and packing them back up with no help, then carrying a Velodyne DD-18 over 150 feet and up a flight of stairs, I have two words:
Stop Whining ! ...
ps.... after that, the EP-500 is a joy to carry.
Hey now, I'm not whinning, just commenting.
Sutter
I'll just get on the bottom side of the box, and let it slide down the carpet.
handle openings on the sides would have been nice, like my 350 box had....
Now why didn't I think of that, instead of busting my hump trying to carry the thing down. I'm such a dummy.
Sutter
My HSU had those side handles too, they were nice and made it easier to move.
Sutter
Craig,
Are you sure those two words shouldn't be:
My back!
Peter, Lugging this stuff around has never bothered me. In this case, the hard part was getting the Styrofoam to stay on the EP-600's while re-packing them. Packing tape did the job.
Pound for Pound, that little EP-500 may be the most potent sub available.
Jack's pic is actually quite handy to get a sense of scale. I was under the impression the EP-500 was at least as big as my PB12.
It's just my wide waistline, and prodigious posterior, that makes it look small.
At 19.5" x 15" x 19.5" (h/w/d), it is not much bigger than the STF-2 I had (19” x 14” x 18”). However at 72.6 lbs, it feels a whole lot heavier (44 lbs).
Randy have fun tonight. My stuff will be coming next week. I just hope that I will be home. Going to Vegas on Sunday and I am not sure when I will be back. I tried to cancel the trip but got vetoed by the wife and kids.
What are you doing with your EP600's?
BTW- I am very impressed that you were able to move your EP600's. I almost busted a hernia moving my EP500.
I am returning 2 of the three 600's, and getting 500's in return - we will end up with three 500's and a 600 - with all of them corner loaded. It matches my wife's decor better, and corner loading the 500's does some remarkable things to the output.
I HAD to watch WOTW again yesterday... and it was goooooood.
Randy must be having a blast with his new bad boy. Haven't seen or heard a word from him all night. lol
Go Randy, go Randy, pump, pump, pump it up, pump, pump, pump it up.
I wanna rock right now
I'm Rob Base and I came to get down
I'm not internationally know
But I'm known to rock the microphone
Because I get stupid I mean outrageous
Stay away from me if you're contagious
Cause I'm a winner, no not a loser
To be an MC is what I choosa
Ladies love me, girls adore me
I mean even the ones who never saw me like
The way that I rhyme at a show
The reason why man I don't know so let's go cause
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
Hit it
My name is Rob I got a real funky concept
Listen up cause I'm gonna keep you in step
I got an idea, that I wanna share
You don't like it, so what, I don't care
I'm number one, the uno, I like fun
Bring all the suckers cause all them are stunned
Won't neglect, but I won't protect
All of my followers cause all I want is respect
I'm not a boxer, but the man who rocksa
A slick brotha that could easily out fox ya
Cause I'm Rob the last name Base yeah
And on the mic, I'm known to be the freshest
So let's start, it shouldn't be too hard
I'm not a sucker so I don't need a body guard
I won't flex wear a bullet proof vest
Don't smoke buddah, can't stand sex yes
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
Hit it
The situation, that the Base is in
I'm kinda stingy that's why I don't wanna win
A funky rhyme to a foe or a good friend
Listen up cause I want you to comprehend
Cause I'm the leader, the man superior
I take care of ya, and then you get wearier
So just sit, my rhymes are like counterfeit
The record sales, which makes this one a hit
It won't hurt, to listen to red alert
Take off your shirt, and so I don't hit the dirt
I like the kids, the guys the girls
I want the dirt cause this is Rob Base world
I'm on a mission, you better just listen
To my rhymes cause I'm all about dissin cause
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
Hit it
I stand alone, don't need anyone
Cause I'm Rob just came to have fun
Don't need friends that act like foes
Cause I'm Rob Base, the one who knows about things
That make you get weary, don't cheer me
Just hear me out, cause I got the clout shot ooohhh
Before I turn the party out
I won't start up project my voice
Speak clearly, so you can be my choice
On stage, or on record
Go to the Wiz, and select it
Take it off the rack if it's wack put it back
I like the Rob so #$%* the Big Mac
If you want static, so let's go
So throw up your hands, go for what you know
Bro, I got an ego, yo talkin to me, no oh
Cause Rob is in the front EZ Rock is on the back up
We're not soft so you better just slack up
Cause I'm cool, calm just like a breeze
Rock the mic with the help of EZ Rock
On the set the music play
Only touch the records that I say
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
It takes two to make a thing go right
I takes two to make it outta sight
All right now, EZ Rock now, when I count to 3 I want you to get busy
You ready now, 1 2 3 get loose now
It takes two to make a
It it it it takes two to make a
It it it it takes two to make a
It takes two to make a
It takes two to make a
Sutter
Thanks guys
Believe it or not, I didnt' get much time to play with it tonight. As soon as I got home from work, the wifey had other plans.
Once we got back it was pretty late, but I managed to find enough strength to get this bad boy downstairs. The sliding down the carpet method worked great Sutter
.
Haven't really messed with the knobs much for calibrating, but I did pop in Ice Age and so far so WoWWwwwwwww, I can tell this thing is going to make me smile from ear to ear once it is calibrated.
What is this pump pum pump crap Sutter, more like WOMP WOMP WOMP Another One Bites the Dust aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Shake Ittttttttttttttttt.
LOL, well, sorry man, for some extremely lame reason Rob Base just came to mind. This flu is clouding up my brain. I do apologize for such a crappy suggestion. lol
Sutter
Dang dude, your still under the weather a bit huh, that sucks. I guess I'm glad I got a shot this year, can't afford to miss anymore work and stay home and play with my Axioms.
Unfortunately, yeah. I had to go back to my doctor today, but I don't want to hijack this thread with all that, so I'll save it for a PM.
Sutter
Sutter I did not know you were a rapper. lol
FLU SHOT I got sick shortly after getting it. Almost 2weeks and i am in the tail end of it.
I had a mild case of the flu, a few days after getting the shot, glad I didnt' get the full blown flu.
Thump thump Thump, can't get that 500 out of my head...
Ok guys, I'm going to refresh this thread to see what you all think. I do have a chance to unload my 350, but I'm having second thoughts about just keeping it so I have 2 subs, my 350 and my new 500. I was planning on placing the 500 in the left corner based on what some of you recommended. If I keep the 350 also, should I leave the 500 in the left corner, and place the 350 back near the seating, they would be along the same wall but far apart. Maybe I should just stick with plan A and sell the 350....
I can't decide...
Randy, as I suggested before, if you use both, try the mid front wall and mid back wall positioning which the Harman paper found to be good.
Sell the 350 along with the 60's and get 80's(V2)
There, I made the 80 posse proud!
Send the broken 500 amp back to FedEx, since you have the 350 packaged and ready for shipment, send it to Axiom. Box up and return the EP500..............then order two EP600 and be done with it, no more wondering about what to upgrade to next.
John, if you recall my room plan, I really don't have a back wall that I call part of the HT area. This drawing is not really to spec, as the right side wall appear shorter by scale. Maybe using the mid point of the left/right walls and keeping the 500 on the left side, as you mentioned that it would be the farthest from the open area?
The area behind the HT seating is actually a walkout area. We are planning on possibly putting a retro 50's corner booth and some black/white checkered flooring. The Pool table and bar area will be next to that where the room opens up.
Good thinking Tharkun, hmmmm, maybe I can convince the wife to get 2 600's if I let her get that new SUV she wants....Actually, the 350 might be going to a friend, I've had it to long for a trade in situation....
Gotta agree with Tharkan on getting 2 600s or if budget is an issue 2 500s. Or get 2 of each like me if you can't decide.
One technical problem which can compromise your sound quality will be using different subs. Trying to implement 2 different subs will guarantee you phase problems resulting in cancellation and peaks galore and difficulty in integration with the mains. Whichever route you go stay with the same sub.
I was concerned enough about this problem that I asked Ian and Tom to run sweeps on a 500 and 600 combined in the anechoic chamber 2 weeks ago. Those 2 subs are close enough in design that phase was not a problem and as I had hoped their combined response was additive with no cancellations. The 350 on the other hand is enough of a different design that phase integrity with a 500 or 600 may not be preserved.
One other thought on positioning subs after studying your room. If it was me I would first start with postioning 2 subs symetrically on either side of your centre channel. That is where you have the best chance of ensuring smoother FR and phasing with your mains given the large open space you have. With dual subs in a leaky space you have to concern yourself more with integation with your mains and locating close to those speakers on the same plane will help greatly.
I think you should give the 500 the 30 days and see how you get along. Mid-January you will know more.
Thanks guys for the advice, testing is the key and I have time on my side...
>>I was concerned enough about this problem that I asked Ian and Tom to run sweeps on a 500 and 600 combined in the anechoic chamber 2 weeks ago. Those 2 subs are close enough in design that phase was not a problem and as I had hoped their combined response was additive with no cancellations.
Cool !!
One guy over on AVS said he heard both the 500 and the 600, said the the 500 is 90-95% "the bass" of the 600...That is coiming from a guy, that has been through 10+ subs..That's what iced the deal for me. Last night I cal'd the speakers at 80 dB, the Ep500 at 85 dB. The sub gain is at like 25% of 100% scale, like 5- o'clock position. When I moved into the 7Pm range, that side of the house was going into resonance!! I have 12 ft celings, 3,000 cu ft room, with complete openings bioth sides, leading into another 3-,4000 cu ft areas. One EP500 engulfs all of that with bass! Dual set-up would be quite scary!
Vince
Ok....I think I'll pop in with a stupid...er...Ignorant, question here.
I used to have an Austin Healey with a 0-60 time of about 13 sec. I could run around through all the twisty bits with the 35MPH speed limits and still have a wonderfull time zappin' thru the gears and hangin' the tail out and barely breaking the speeed limit!
A good friend with his bright yellow De Tomasso Pantera had a different experience: He was over the speed limit in first gear and couldn't break the tail loose on the corners unless someones life and bank account was in serious geopardy.
Who was having the most fun??
Same with subs?
I mean: When I listen to, say, WOTW at levels where my sub(which starts to drop off a bit at 33hz)is havin' fun rockin the house and shakin' the chairs thru the vast majority of the recorded material(but is clearly agonizing a bit down around 20)I can still go outside and hear that I'm not(yet)disturbing the neighbors, with solid stuff down to only 25 to 30.
Now...IF I were to buy a 500(No, dear Wife; I only said "If")If I were to buy a 500, would I find that in order to enjoy the sub immensely at 30 to 35 hz, would I have to turn the over-all gain down, in order to keep the stuff down at 20 and below, from disturbing the peace!?
See what I mean? Would the stuff at 20 to 25 and below, be so loud with a 500 that I'd Have to turn the sub gain down enough that the sound at 30 to 35 would also be attenuated and take all the fun out of having the sub in the first place??!!
Ultimate Bummer!
Rich.
In reply to:
Would the stuff at 20 to 25 and below, be so loud with a 500 that I'd Have to turn the sub gain down enough that the sound at 30 to 35 would also be attenuated and take all the fun out of having the sub in the first place??!!
I'm hardly knowledgeable enough about this subject to be taken seriously but, it seems to me, that what you are concerned about would occur ONLY if there was a rise in the subs response at the lower frequencies (i.e, the 20 to 30 Hz material was louder than the the +30 Hz stuff. If you have a relatively flat response throughout the subs frequency range, achieved by placement, and/or room treatment, and/or equalization, the low stuff wouldn't be any louder than the higher stuff.
However, IF you found that low stuff to be "too much" for your comfort, and felt you had to lower the volume, then you might pay a price in overall subwoofer "oomph." So far, with my 500 (only one place for it, no room treatment, and unequalized), I haven't found that to be a problem.
I'm in a townhouse, that has one wall common with my neighbors (no children). I'm certain they can hear (feel) my 500 but, so far, have said nothing. I doubt the sub would be bothersome to them when listening to music, which I play at relatively low volumes. Movies, particularly action movies, are another kettle of fish. I try to follow basic rules of courtesy. I never watch movies past 11PM, and I only watch one or two a week, and not all of them are action flicks.
On the other hand, before the 500, I had a sub that started to roll off around 30 Hz. and it did a good job of rockin' my world. I don't think anyone who doesn't have a sub that reaches below 20Hz, should feel deprived. At the same time, there is something worthwhile added with a sub that does get down that low.
My satisfaction, and delight, with the 500 has more to do with the "smoothness" of it's performance than with it's low frequency response, though I'm certainly enjoying that as well. I haven't done any sweeps or measurements yet (waiting for the R-DES equalization system from Onix), but this doggone thing just seems to integrate with the rest of my system perfectly. "Smooth" is the word that keeps popping into my head. I'll be very interested to see just what my current frequency response is.
Rich, I think once you get down to about 25Hz and lower, you feel the bass more than you can hear it. Most of the loud stuff happens in the 30 to 40Hz range. At 25Hz and lower you get into the business of mimicking a small earthquake in your living room.
Can't comment on the subs, but I'm familiar with the Healey. My father has had a '63 3000 MkII for about 20 years, and I drive that beast every chance I get. I drove an '01 911 the other day, and while the Porsche is an extraordinary automobile (and the list of felonies I'd consider committing in an effort to own one is a lengthy one), that hairy old Healey is far more entertaining.
