Going back to Yamaha??

Posted by: littleb

Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 09:07 AM

As most of you know, I upgraded my AV receiver from a Yamaha HTR-5280/RXV-800 to an ecost Denon AVR 1083/AVR 3803 about a year ago. Lately, I have the urge to move back to Yamaha. I know this is sort of a taboo subject, but I believe there is a slight difference between these two brand of receivers. While the sound quality of the two is close to equal for HT, I have always thought that Yamaha's product was a bit more dynamic with 2 channel stereo whereas, I would describe my Denon as being comparatively dull sounding. And I do kind of miss that. Since I don't have to worry about whether I want an XM radio transmitter built in or driving M80s, I've been looking around for an older Yammie at a discount and I think I've found one. The Yamaha online store has the HTR-5590 at a pretty steep discount off the original retail price. My question is this, has anyone replaced their Denon AVR with a Yammie and found the Yamaha to be preferable considering most seem to believe Denon makes a superior product? Or am I just crazy for even considering this?
Posted by: danmagicman7

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 12:14 PM

This is sorta related.

I have a Yamaha RX-V557, and love it. I am wondering, what is the difference between the RX-V line and HTR line for Yamaha? I could never figure it out.
Posted by: cgolf

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 12:14 PM

Well littleb,
I'm one of those rare breeds who had a Yamaha, went to a Denon and came back to a Yamaha. And I am once again happy and satisfied!!! The Denon was great but I missed something with the Yamaha that I didn't have with the Denon. Maybe it was how you described it "dynamic", I don't know. I just know that for my ears-I'm old and have lost some hearing levels to old rock concerts :-)--I prefer the Yamaha. so there are at least 2 of us...

Charlie
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 12:38 PM

If you look at the Yamaha website you can find some info on that. The htr line is sold at discount stores, while the RXV line is only sold at dedicated stereo stores. I think there are the same except the htr line doesn't have zone2, so you can't add an external amp to them. That's means nothing to me. I'm not going to buy a $500 receiver and then purchase a $3000 amp.

Charlie, out of curiosity, which model Yamaha did you choose?
Posted by: Capn_Pickard

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 04:55 PM

Teh HTR line, generally doesn't have as many "high-end" features and is typically sold at Big Box stores, while the RXV models are usually less about plug and play, and have more input/output flexibility or will have different features preferred by enthusiasts. The HTR line is meant to be a simpler solution for those who don't want to know how their reciever works, but want it to work just the same.
Posted by: cgolf

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 05:20 PM

littleb,
1st time had an HTR 55?? something. Went to a Denon 2105 and my current Yammie is a RXV-657. Love it..
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 05:50 PM

I called the local Yamaha dealer today, since I was thinking of making the switch. The salesman told me they only have 2 models in stock, the 757 and the RXV-1600. I asked him what kind of deal I could get on one of these. I looked at the msrp at the Yamaha site on both these models. The locals are actually charging more than retail on the 757. No wonder unauthorized sales are so popular. He also told me the htr line is junk.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 05:54 PM


Looks like it is time to find a new dealer.
Posted by: real80sman

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 09:35 PM

When I was still using my Luxman 2ch Integrated amp, my brother-in-law brought over his Denon 160_ (2)?(4)? Anyway, for movies it was amazing. But when listening to music, it sounded dead. It didn't have the "sparkle" of the Lux - if that makes any sense?!?!

I've since bought a Yam HTR-5660 and except for 2 things, have been relatively happy. It drives the 80's with no problem, but I hate the menu's (no on-screen), and the fixed 90hz crossover is a major drawback.

Having said that, for the $200 CDN I paid for it (almost 2 years ago), I can't complain. On the good side, it has pre-outs for a [Dreaming] nice set of mono-blocks.[/dreaming]
Posted by: bugbitten

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/10/06 11:36 PM

In reply to:

/dreaming




The dreaming never ends!
Posted by: el_giovato

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/11/06 06:53 PM

Reading what your dealer said regarding the HTR series simply makes me laugh. Six clicks from the yamaha.com homepage took me to a FAQ which clearly states the HTR and RXV series receivers from Yamaha are functionally identical. Same features, same amplifiers, same remote and built in the same plant. The only difference, according to Yamaha's FAQ, is the front faceplate. I guess the dealer you chatted with must know of some mystical way that gold lettering on the HTR series turns the unit into junk. The dishonesty of many B&M dealers has pushed me to purchase most of my HT components online in the last 2 years. I picked up an HTR-5890 (virtually identical to the RX-V1500 - well, except that it's junk ) from an E-bay retailer for ~ 70% of the cost from B&M in my area. At first I struggled, because I find it important to support local merchants, and to keep my hard earned money in the local economy, but when people are willing to lie, cheat and steal there way into my wallet, I eventually steer clear.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/12/06 10:10 AM

I'm really surprised no one has said that I must be out of my blooming mind. I've been sort of expecting that. Gee, after all these years and me . . . thinking that I am stark raving . . . and no one has said it, even now.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/12/06 10:14 AM


You must be out of your mind I tell you. Ok there I said it
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/12/06 11:29 AM

Thanks, Rick. I knew I could count on you.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/13/06 11:17 AM

I'm having seconds thoughts about the Yamaha HTR-5590. These specs, # 400 watts of total system amplification
# 120 watts x 6 channels (1kHz), just don't seem to add up. I might be forced to hang with the Denon for awhile. Call me naive, or even simple, but 120 x 6 doesn't equal 400, no matter how you cut the cake.
Posted by: ratpack

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/13/06 05:58 PM

Do you think that this is just another form of "fuzzy math?"

LOL!!!!

There ought to be a law.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/14/06 12:12 AM

Bruce, both the 6x120(1KHz)(6x100,20-20KHz)and the 400 numbers are accurate, but they're not referring to comparable rating factors. The 400 watts is power consumption(not "total system amplification"),and except where the manufacturer states that it's "maximum" or "full-power" consumption it's a figure that roughly corresponds to average consumption and is arrived at in the UL required testing at 1/8th power for overheating. A class AB amplifier is about 50% efficient(power output compared to power consumption)at full rated power, but the efficiency is lower at less than full power and might be roughly 20% at 1/8th power. 1/8th of 6x100 is a bit under 80 watts, and at about 20% efficiency that would require about 400 watts of consumption. So there's no conflict between the two figures. Buy it if you want it; the power rating has to be accurate, as required by the FTC regs.
Posted by: ratpack

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/14/06 10:53 AM

Thanks John!!!

Just goes to show you that you really need to fully understand what these spec mean and how they were generated.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/14/06 06:47 PM

I think I just became a Denon hater. I just became aware that I am experiencing a problem others have mentioned about this player. I just had to have the Denon DVD 2900 DVD player last Xmas, so I got me one. Lo, and behold, I discover that it is now freezing/stuttering in certain scenes on quite a number of my store bought DVD's. I would expect this if I was playing DVD-Rs. I called Crutchfield about this issue and the player is out of warrantee by one month. The tech support there said I should check for a firmware update at the Denon site. I have discovered there are none available. My only recourse seems to be the repair shop. A $700 DVD player should last longer than a year. The way I fell now, I'm thinking I should get rid of anything in the house with the letter 'D' on its label.
Posted by: ratpack

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/14/06 08:15 PM

Sorry to hear that.

You might want to try the OPPO for about $200 rather than repairing your Denon.

Of course, that is an "ify" judgement call. The Denon is probably worth repairing at least once.
Posted by: Lorenzo1000

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/15/06 12:01 AM

Did you use a credit card to purchase the Denon from Cruthcfield??? If so some of the gold or platinum cards offer automatic warranty extension. I think you would pay to have it repaired and then they would reimburse you although there may be a small deductible. It might be worth contacting your CC company.

As well considering when it started failing I would also contact Denon and tell them it started failing a month and half back and see if they'll do anything for you. It's worth asking as I'm sure Crutchfield is an authorized Denon dealer.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/15/06 11:06 PM

I had another chat and discovered that I purchased the 2900 on 2/16. The problem being that according to Denon the nearest authorized dealer is 200 miles away. It may be time to get the yellow pages out and find a place that does warrantee work for Denon. I have a suspicion that there service center list is incomplete.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/16/06 10:58 AM

I'm getting those old 'gee, you mean I have to pay shipping on warrantee work, and it will be weeks before it is returned and it might not even get fixed at all blues' again.
Posted by: libbert

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 02:56 AM

See this thread reply I just posted in another thread.

Scott
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 12:59 PM

Listen to this, Crutchfield referred me to Ultimate Electronics as an authorized service center and they told me they wouldn't work on it unless I had purchased an extended warrantee. I called another authorized service center and they told me they did warrantee work until they found out I didn't purchase it from them. I am now on hold with Denon thinking I might as well hang up. Warrantee, schmorantee! I've got 1 more 'C' conversation left in me before I throw this thing in the garbage.
Posted by: Lorenzo1000

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 01:17 PM

I had the same problem with a DVD-555 (same as DVD-1700). Purchased refurb through e-Cost and had to pay to ship it to New Jersey from Canada. They could not fix it so they sent me a new A stock player instead. For the price to ship it to them it may be worth it. I know from experience you do have to keep after Denon to make sure they are following through. Best of luck.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 04:37 PM

Well, I have set this in motion, since I have about 29 days until the warrantee expires. I emailed Denon the repair request form and hope to get a reply before 2/16.
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 05:07 PM

I suppose it goes without saying, and I certainly don't mean to sound like an "I told you so" or as though I'm gloating over making the right decision, cuz I didn't.

I looked at the great prices on-line and almost went for them!

In the end I went with the cowards way out and walked into solid B&Ms for all of my audio electronics purchases over the years. Even went so far as to get the extended warrenties for extended peace of mind on a number of the items.

I think I may have thrown a lot of money away though, cause I've never had to use any of the repair services

However.....

Anyway......it goes without saying....

The real trick seems to be to get real assurances that the parts suppliers have actual authorization as a sales representative. And at times the on-line resellers have been accused on occasion of being a bit less than honest in representing their true relationships.

Gotta be carefull, I guess.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 06:11 PM

I think the problem stems from the B&M stores refusal to do work on products bought online, so the 'authorized' online dealers aren't exactly that. If you buy from them, and a B&M sells the same product, the locals are punishing the consumer for not buying from them. I tend to be suspicious of retailers who take all my money and may refuse my warrantee requests. The online dealers, on the other hand, don't tell you that you're warrantee or lack of one is at the mercy of the manufacturer. Of course, there's no guarantee that the B&M will honor the warrantee when you buy from them either. It just makes you wonder whether any of these warranteed products are actually guaranteed to work for a year. I'm glad we all bought speakers from a company we can trust, at least.

Please accept my apologies for these negative posts. I'm just a little bit bummed out at the moment. I'll try to be more positive in the future.


Posted by: F107plus5

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 09:25 PM

Not to worry....a typical reaction to being bitten in the butt by the bad luck bug.....twice!

...happens to all of us

Venting is healthy!!
Posted by: ratpack

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/17/06 10:23 PM

I hate to hear of your bad luck. However, I'm not sure that Denon is the only brand that you would have had the same experience. I am surprised that the B&Ms would not honor the warranty. It is my understanding that they get paid the same for the warranty service whether or not you bought it from them.

Your situation really sucks!!!
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/19/06 01:11 PM

I am now impatiently waiting for a SRA# from Denon. (finger rolling on desk top) kerthump, kerthump.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/19/06 01:16 PM

I'm going back to Yammi, Yammi, Yammi...

(with apologies to LL Cool J)
Posted by: Lorenzo1000

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/19/06 01:40 PM

As I said before you have to keep after them so don't wait too long. Keep us informed.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/19/06 01:42 PM

What's a Cool J. He must have been one of the O'Jays. I never did know their names.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/21/06 04:14 PM

. . .and the trick to actually getting Denon to reply to you about getting service for your product is?
Posted by: Lorenzo1000

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 03:09 AM

E-mail them everyday, if that doesn't work call their service center in New Jersey and bug them. Like I said you have to keep after them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Posted by: ratpack

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 09:58 AM

You folks don't think very highly of Denon customer service, do you?

Is it really that bad?
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 11:16 AM

I have a question on my yamaha receiver. I am soon getting a pair of m60ti to replace my booze 301 bookshelf speakers. About a month ago, one of my little nephews turned up the volume on my yamaha rxv596 to the max for about 5 seconds. Now every once in a while I get a crackling sound out of my right channel. My question is, do I need to get a brand new receiver (or seperates), or can I add a two or five channel amp on my 5.1 receiver on the preouts section to fix this problem?
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 11:49 AM

I would suspect that a short period of high volume would be more likely to damage a speaker than the amplifier.

So, the first thing to do, if you've not already done so, is to ascertain if the damage is in the receiver's right channel, or in the right main speaker. Switch the connections to your speakers so that the left main is being driven by the right channel of your receiver. If the crackling is still in the right hand speaker, i.e., the one now being driven by the left hand channel of your receiver, then the excess volume damaged the speaker and not the receiver. If this is the case, the new M60s will certainly solve the problem.

However, if the crackling is now in your left main speaker, i.e., the speaker being driven by the right channel of your receiver, then the problem is indeed in your receiver. Problem is, we can't know if the damage is in the preamplifier section of the right channel, which would necessitate a new receiver (or separates), or in the right channel amplifier section, which would permit using your current receiver as a preamplifier to another amplifier. The only way to be certain would be to hook up your receiver, as a preamp, to a separate amplifier to see if you still get the crackling.



Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 11:55 AM

Let me see, half a dozen phone calls where a receptionist transfers you a dead end where no one answers the phone. Repeated emails without so much as a reply. You might say I'm getting a little irritable about this. Just this morning, the wife had to drag me away from the bullseye I was seen drawing in the driveway. But, when she leaves for work, there won't be anyone around to stop me, and all bets are off.

It only Axiom made DVD players, I wouldn't be in this fix.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 12:15 PM

Jack is spot on with trying to determine if it's your speaker or not. One way you can check if it is your preamp section of the receiver is to take a set of interconnects and put them in place of the jumpers of main in and preout. Now go ahead and switch the left and right on the amp section only, if the crackling switches to the other channel then it is the preamp section of the receiver. If it stays the same it is the amp section of the receiver.
Posted by: KC23

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 12:53 PM

For the record I also just had a bad experience with Crutchfield as well. I don't recommend them. In many years of online purchases it was the first one I really felt lied to and let down.

They're one of those companys that don't tell you something is out of stock until you've made the purchase ... and in fact go out of their way to tell you its in stock when in fact its not.

Then they had the nerve to tell me that they actually received the item and had it in stock, but the holidays had their all their shipping delayed so I'd have to wait another week (was already 2 weeks late).

I replyed to the email with this.

"NP, but you have lost a customer for life. Not to mention all the people I'll recommond to stay away from your company.

Have a nice day"
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/22/06 01:05 PM

I will experiment that later on today. Thank you for your help guys! I appreciate the help.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 01:42 PM

Note to board: I get a kick whenever I reply to my own message especially when I'm complaining. I called Denon again today. And lo and behold, I actually talked to a real, live person. I was apologized to. He told me that technical support over there doesn't read their email. He said he would call me back today with a repair authorization #. Call me skeptical, but I don't think I can hold me breath for the next 4.5 hours.
Posted by: Capn_Pickard

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 01:47 PM

In reply to:

I don't think I can hold me breath for the next 4.5 hours.




Oh, they've turned you into a pirate!
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 01:50 PM

ahhh, cap'n!!!
Posted by: Capn_Pickard

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 05:26 PM

arrrrr .... good times, being a pirate is... good times.
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 06:50 PM

I actually got called back. I'm going to give this gentleman a thumb's up for that. He didn't give me a repair authorization #, instead he gave me yet another phone # to call. It is now official. I have to send my defective dvd player to St. Charles, Illinois. I never did get that RA# which, according to Denon's web site is so important. For those of you who will need any work done, here is some info for you as I have been told. The Denon factory service center in NJ doesn't actually do any work. It exists for swapping, not fixing. What a run around.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 06:54 PM


In reply to:

I have to send my defective dvd player to St. Charles, Illinois




Let me know when it is done, I'll go pick it up for ya and test it out for a couple of years. I would hate to see ya go through this again
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 07:38 PM

Have I got a deal for ya! Send me those M80s and you can keep it.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 07:48 PM


That's a deal almost to hard to pass up
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 08:54 PM

Update on my receiver problem. I tried out both Jack's and Wid's experiments and it is my preamp that's damaged. Looks like I'll have to save up for a new receiver or seperates (I'm looking at the EMO UL series). Once again, thank you guys for your help.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 08:58 PM

Sorry to hear it. Try to look on the bright side. A new toy is in the offing!!!!
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 09:03 PM

That's true, new speakers, new gear. Can't wait!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 09:10 PM

Those Emo UL separates look very nice. Looks like the preamp is loaded with features, and not a bad price, too.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 09:11 PM

At least you did get to the bottom of the problem. I fought for the longest time trying to figure out a problem in my system. It was the same type as yours but it was intermittent. I ended up doing as I had told you to do and found it to be my preamp also. Well now I have a whole new system and things couldn't be better.
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 09:24 PM

Yeah, I can't wait until the ULs hit the market, I'm very curious about how they perform, plus, they are very good looking units.
Wid, I was playing one of my video games earlier (Yeah,I'm 28 and still playing video games every once in a while )
but I had to turn off my receiver, that crackling and fading of volume was just driving me nuts.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 10:14 PM

That's the point that mine got to before I could figure out what was going on. After a new preamp, amp, cd player, speakers, sub and a lot of other purchases I have a system that I am really pleased with
Posted by: littleb

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/23/06 11:03 PM

Hey Charlie,

I ended up swapping with my son, since he's always wanted to try out a Denon. He gave me back my HTR-5280. So far, he's happy and so am I. The only thing he's not so happy about is the user unfriendly Denon interface. I haven't decided if I need one of those newfangled XM Yamahas.
Posted by: Lorenzo1000

Re: Going back to Yamaha?? - 01/24/06 09:33 AM

Well at least you made some progress. Hopefully they will fix the problem ASAP.