Hi,
I'm currently building a theater room and planning to use a 7.1 setup. Unfortunately due to door's and windows, the left & right SIDE surrounds have to be mounted in the ceiling. I was planning on purchasing the Epic 80 Theater package (5.1) and purchasing a pair of M3's to be placed in the ceiling.
Can someone tell me if this will work, or reccommend a better setup in my case. I'm really not that familiar with axiom products (my friend is) so I leave this question to the experts here to address.
Everyone knows how I feel about in-ceiling speakers for home theatre. But, if you must, it may be easier to go with the W series.
Why don't you use QSs and place them ahead or behind of the obstacles?
Any possibility of hanging your side surrounds from the ceiling using the
Full Metal Ceiling bracket, or some other ceiling bracket? That would allow you to use M3s, or even the incredible QS surrounds, in a more conventional and advantageous manner.
M3s are quite large, so you'd better have a really, really thick ceiling if you're going to try that. I'd rather suspend QS8s from the ceiling. You also aren't going to want direct radiators for side surrounds and quadpolar speakers for the rear--that's pretty much opposite of how it should go.
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You also aren't going to want direct radiators for side surrounds and quadpolar speakers for the rear--that's pretty much opposite of how it should go.
Now you got me thinking. Maybe I should change my rear QS8s to M3s for better rear effects.
Ken, isn't it a given that one would NOT screw the speaker and bracket into something incapable of holding it? I agree that the QS8s are preferable for side surrounds which is why I described them as "incredible."
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You also aren't going to want direct radiators for side surrounds and quadpolar speakers for the rear--that's pretty much opposite of how it should go.
Now you got me thinking. Maybe I should change my rear QS8s to M3s for better rear effects.
If you primarily use your rears for HT, I would think the QS8s would be preferable in the rear. I use direct radiators for my rears, and am considering moving them to my bedroom system and replacing them with dipoles that match my side surrounds.
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I use direct radiators for my rears, and am considering moving them to my bedroom system and replacing them with dipoles that match my side surrounds.
Why? What are you unhappy about?
Some people use direct radiating in the rears for music reasons. However, for HT use the Q's will still perform better. Actually, I think my 4 Q's do great for music as well, pretty much wraps you in the sound.
I'm also not a fan of "in-ceiling" speakers for left/right surrounds or rears. It basically goes against the whole purpose of how those channels are to be experienced.
I would try to ceiling mount some Q's either with a DIY method or Axiom bracket. They will not block the windows that much and if you get the right color to match your room decor, they will compliment your room.
Oh, my feeling was just that if you're going to have both direct radiators and multipolar speakers in your setup, it makes more sense to put the multipolars on the sides than the back. If you're going to have multipolars all around, more power to you.
Jack, my comment wasn't directed at your post. If he's trying to stick M3s in the ceiling, it had better be one thick ceiling so that they don't stick out the floor above!
I agree with you Ken on all counts.
I suppose if he has 2 x 12's in his rafters it might be deep enough, but would most likely sound like crap.
Alright fellas, you've talked me out of the in-ceiling idea, however, I really am in a bind. Do you guys think mounting the QS-8's facing down from the ceiling will work? (see rough sketch below)
JM, welcome. Sure, mounting them on the ceiling facing downward would work if you secure them so that they don't slide off of the mounting bracket. Since they're side surrounds they should be separated as much as possible, to within a few inches of the side walls, rather than the more inward spot shown in your sketch.
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I use direct radiators for my rears, and am considering moving them to my bedroom system and replacing them with dipoles that match my side surrounds.
Why? What are you unhappy about?
I don't think "unhappy" is quite the right word.
It is my opinion, and my opinion only, that if one uses 7.1 exclusively for HT, then multichannel speakers in the rear would provide a more satifying HT experience than using direct radiating speakers in the rear.
I put direct radiators in the rear because I love SACDs and DVDAs, and the common wisdom is that all speakers should be direct radiators when listening to multichannel music. The problem is that the correct position for direct radiating surrounds when listening to multichannel music is not where the surrounds should be for 7.1 movies. For multichannel music they should be approximately in the same location as your side surrounds, but at the same height as your mains and center.
So, either you are forced to be constantly moving your rear surrounds (depending on what you're listening to), or you live with your surrounds being in the wrong location part of the time.
I've got another reason for putting dipoles in the rear, but it only applies to me. When I started listening to multichannel music, I had a 5.1 setup only, with QS8s as my surrounds. I became accustomed to the sound of SACDs and DVDAs using multipolar surrounds mounted higher than they were supposed to be. I like it more than I like direct radiators in the correct position.
What I like multichannel music to do is expand the soundstage and give me the feeling I'm in a concert hall. I am not fond of the "you're in the middle of the band" feeling (ironic, since I was a professional musician 
), and the multipolar speakers, mounted higher than recommended, minimize that 'middle of the band feeling,' should the disc happen to be mixed that way.
So, yes, shame on me for not doing things they way they were intended. But, it's my room, my speakers, and my choice. 
YMMV.
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Jack, my comment wasn't directed at your post.
OOPS! My bad, Ken. 
(How's that for an old guy sounding hip. I used to be 'hip' ya know. Now I'm just 'hippy' 
. Come to think of it, I used to be one of those too, or is that spelled 'hippie'? 
) Since your post said "RE: Ajax", I assumed your comment was directed toward me. 
You could do that, but I'd be concerned that the seperation from the left/right sides. With the tweeters firing to the left/right as designed you are enveloped in the sound. With them firing down, that is a different story.
I still don't see why you can't mount them on the sides, either to the front or behind the listener. They are very forgiving. If your considering mounting them flush, your not going to lose a lot by mounting them as you should, other than needing to leave a few inches for the top driver to breath.
Can you provide a picture or drawing of your side walls so we can understand your situation?
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Now I'm just 'hippy'
Yeah, but you're 100% organic, not Titanium Man.
You guys sure can go OT easily.
What does Jack's big hips have to do with anything?
As requested here is a picture of the side view.
Please forgive my poor sketching skills, but as you can see I can mount the LEFT surround perfectly on the wall, but the RIGHT surround is a lost cause. Because of this, I would rather have both go in-ceiling/on-ceiling for uniformity.
While I’m a definite proponent for rear surrounds in a 7.1 system, I’m beginning to think it’s over rated for HT and you could throw up just about anything to exploit whatever garbled noise gets sent to them. I have been considering swapping out my M3’s for another set of QS-8’s, because the M3’s are just too darn big and look out of place for my small room. Well the other day I was chasing a possible wiring issue and ended up with just the Surround backs (M3’s) hooked up to my receiver. Has anyone ever done this?? If you haven’t, do it… A PLIIx matrixed movie sends nothing but a mess of un-intelligible noise to these speakers. I don’t care what you put up to reproduce this garbage, it’s still just garbage. The only thing that sounded pretty darn good was when I put in my trusty SACD Dark Side of the Moon, and also a few Discrete 6.1 DVD’s and two 6.1 Blue Ray DVD’s I have. The sound coming from the back surrounds was much more identifiable and not just noise. So from my little science project with the rear surrounds, I wouldn’t get too excited over the speaker you use, just use something. – Don’t waste your money Jack. Try listening to just the backs first. You may change your mind.
I don't see the "lost cause" issue? It is perfectly fine to have the left/right surrounds slightly in front of you, in fact it is recommended. It appears you have room in front of the opening on the right side, unless the drawing is way off scale?
If you do it like the picture it appears you won't have much seperation from your left/right and rear speakers.
JM, as Randy has pointed out, it doesn't really appear that you have a serious problem. The couch appears in your diagram to be directly to the side of the open areas which apparently are a door and window, therefore pre-empting the ideal location for side surrounds(when back surrounds are also present), but if you mount them about 6' up at the front edges of the door/window, the distance they'd be in front of the listeners would be relatively small. If the couch could be moved a couple feet forward it'd be even better.
First I apologize my "side-view" diagram was not complete - I am going to create an in-wall A/V Rack next to the extended opening on the right side. Because of the sheer size of this built-in cabinetry I really have no option of wall mounting the RIGHT surround.... well atleast not without placing it 5/6 feet in frount of the couch - which I just wont do.
The more and more I think about it - becomes a question of 7.1 (with surrounds in the ceiling) or going for 5.1 setup instead.
Even with 5.1, your left/right surrounds should go to the sides of the listener, unless you have no other options. If nothing else, make sure they are spread out as wide as possible, and maybe angled in towards the listener if possible.
