i think after visiting this forum a bunch of times that i will be ordering a pair of m80s real soon. i have a yamaha rxv 2700 rated for 140 per channel and see that the m80s can handle a lot more than that.will i need a little more power to get them cranking and if so what type of amp would allow me to use the features of the yamaha and add some more power without breaking the bank thanks john

Welcome!
How big is your room, what type of music/movies do you enjoy (and what percentage of movies v. music?) and do you have a sub?

room is 12x 18 will be used for mostly music and i have a sub that i bought with my orbs. listen to all music but love to crank up some head banging tunes from time to time. replaced an older system that i used cerwin vegas with and would pop the fuses in the back of those from time to time.the reciever died and i bought the yamaha, picked up the orbs which are awesome but not enough and will be my rears unless i fall in love with the m80s and get the itch for axiom rears but 1st things first. i just want to make sure i have enough power to feed them

The Yamaha might be enough but the truth is who knows. You very well might send it into protect while doing some of your headbanging. All I can say is give it a try and see how it goes. That or stay with an 8 ohm speaker like the M60s.

Thats not a particularly big room. You can easily hit 90-95db with around 65w so it really depends on how loud 'headbanging' is.

I believe the 2700 can handle the 4Ohm load.

My Denon (100watts) without my amps added, fill my 30 x 31 x 9 ft room just fine. I'm sure the Yammy will be fine, but only you can tell us.

I'll give my standard speech

Don't get hung up on watts. You have enough to blast as loud as you like in that small room. Only issue is with the Yammy and the 4ohm speakers. I'm thinking yours will be fine.

All right, who are you......and what have you done with Rick?

I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth... BLASPHEMY!!!

John, another welcome(we can always use another John here). As to power requirements, "handle a lot more" doesn't mean need a lot more. Although the M80s have been lab tested by Axiom at over 1000 watts without going up in smoke, they're also slightly more sensitive and require less power than average. You didn't describe the configuration of your present Orbs, but the single unit is a lttle less sensitive than the M80s and you might find that the M80s will actually require a bit less power. In any case, there's no good reason to assume at this time that the 2700 won't be entirely satisfactory, so it's at best premature to be thinking of another amplifier.

the yamaha can handle the 4 ohm load. you can change the settings on it for the 4,6 or 8ohms speakers. the orbs are set up in the mod 2 configuration which means there are 2 speakers wired together for each side which make them a 4ohms load also.i have been fooling around with all the adjustments for awhile and the orb guys have been great but i just feel im missing something and it could be because i had cerwin vegas for the last 16 years or so. and even though they arent close to to the quality sound im getting from the orbs i guess im used to getting that big sound punch.i have fooled around with the crossover settings, the bass on the sub along with the bass and treble on the receiver. maybe its just me but im looking for what i had but just a lot cleaner sound thus the search for towers

How do you have the impedance switch set? No matter the rating of the speaker it should be set to 8 ohm. I do recall Mikey (MDrew) had a 661 I believe and he was able to shut it down at higher dbs. That's why I said the Yammy might shut down on some headbanging.

jg, as Rick mentioned, you don't want to screw with the 4-8ohm switch on the receiver, LEAVE IT ON 8ohms, all your doing is limiting the voltage and power of your receiver.

i havent touched the setting as that what i was told my yamaha when i called to double check but its available to use under certain circumstances which im sure ill never get into but it is a capable of handling the 4 ohm load with no problem

yep, and if your using 4ohm speakers, you still leave the switch to 8ohm.

JG,

In case the comments about going against the grain with the switch setting are confusing, here is a good explanation of why everyone is recommending that you not change the switch from the 8-ohm setting.



While it seems counterintuitive, it is in fact good advice.

Jason

Yeah, John; since the Mod 2 Orbs are formed by using two Mod 1s in parallel, the resulting impedance is about 4 ohms and is similar to the M80s in that respect. As was pointed out, the 8 ohm receiver setting is still the appropriate one, not the lower setting which reduces voltage and in turn reduces current and power to help prevent overheating.

The Orbs are very small and do distort at higher sound levels(even if a 150Hz crossover is used)which the M80s can handle cleanly.

So I have a separate power amp that has a 4 / 8 ohm switch. Should I keep the switch set to 8 ohm here too for my M80's, or is this just for receivers? I believe the manual says to select 4 ohm for a 4 ohm speaker.

Thoughts?

paul

Paul, exactly the same facts apply: this lower setting in no way "optimizes" the amplifier for handling the speakers with a lower impedance rating, as some imagine. This is purely a safety-related measure intended to limit the possibility of overheating, pursuant to UL requirements. It does this by limiting the voltage which is available on the power supply "rails", and following Ohm's Law, when the voltage is reduced so is the current and power. This of course reduces the possibility of overheating, but does so at the expense of maximum performance. Some lab tests(e.g., Sound&Vision)usually include the result of using the lower impedance setting and have found that it cuts the maximum power capability roughly in half.

Wow, thanks John, that is good to know. I will make the changes right away.

paul

Paul, you just got a free ~2x power upgrade!

Ya!!! Now that's cool!!!

paul

Please let us know how you like the M80s on the Yamaha 2700. I also have a 2700 and listen to lots of metal. I use either M3 or M22 speakers. I keep switching between those right now.

I love my RX-V2700 reciever so I'd like to know how it drives the M80s.

Thanks

I too nave been pondering the power needed to do a decent job with the M80's. Mind you, not without taking some heat from Dewd, Alan L. and others. I approach the power issue from a lower power point (no, there will not be any slides).

I'm real close to placing my Axiom order (fronts, VP150, 4-QS8's...tomorrow?), but am still unsure as to the M80/ M60 choice. I bought a Denon 1909 (90wpc) 8 weeks ago. Now I realize I would have been better off with a 2809 (115wpc) or 3808 (130wpc). I figure to appease my quandary, I will probably order both the 60's and 80's, and return one pair. I am weighing:
1) If I go with the M60's I may have enough power for the 8 ohm M60's, 6 ohm VP150 & QS8's. Or is the 1909 on the lower end for that combo too.
2) If I go with the M80's, MAYBE I can squeak by with the 1909, until I recover from the speaker purchase (6-9 months??). Yes? No, not really?

My current use is just HT, I would like to get back into listening to music after doing some demo material listening. :o)

I am thinking that the 1909, especially in my 31' x 23' room, was not a choice that allows for as full an audio stage as I would like. I was even more ignorant of the audio world when I started this upgrade journey a few months ago, than I am, rather still now. My first choice is to be able to have a strong HT and music system for this great room in my home. I will be here a long time, so I would rather bite the bullet and do a decent job now. I'm not talking pre/pro, 200w amps, yada yada. I'd love getting a good AVR at a good price.

From the sounds of the conversations above that: "you should be fine" with the 140w Yamaha, makes me wonder if even the 3808 is a power compromise?? I hate to stretch the budget further and pay full boat on possibly a new (rumored) 3810, (or other AVR recommendation)

Personally, i think your current receiver will be fine with the M80s.

I think the "you should be fine with the 140w Yamaha" refers more to the fact that Yamaha is not a brand normally recommended for the M80s. Denon is.

The difference between your 90 wpc and 130wpc is about 2dB.... nearly negligible.

Dave, it really just depends on how loud you want it to be, but the 1909 should get pretty freakin loud.

I will probably brand you as some sort of traitor if you abandon the noble M60

Does the 1909 have pre-outs?

I have the 1909 (actually 789,same thing) running my M80's, VP150 and QS8's. It can play very loud and long and stay cool to the touch. I had the same experience with the 1905. The 1909 has no pre-outs, but does support all HD sound formats.

One thing to consider is the M80s are a more efficient speaker than the M60s so it would take LESS power to achieve the same spl with the M80s as it would the M60s.

Secondly the Denon would increase in watts available to the speaker @ 4 ohm. You will have LESS power to run the LESS efficient M60s if that's what you choose.

I've got my M80s in 2 channel and my Denon 2809 rated at 115w per channel can play well beyond "comfortable" levels. Found that out the hard way...the volume dial on the 2809 is a nice finely graduated dial, takes a few turns to dial in some volume. First time I used the remote I was expecting the same kind of graduated (slow) volume increase when I hit the "+" on the remote. Whoahhh!

Tom, as I would expect from either esteemed camp. That is why I will buy both to demo. I'll return one (undisclosed) pair. Then, when I am around the M80 fanboy club, I'll be wearing their color jersey. Conversely, when with the M60 fanboy club, I'll wear their color jersey. I'll of course need to be way more careful than Sara Palin, to not mix up my 'teams'. I figure I can be luaded for making the 'smart' choice by both camps...
for at least 7-9 minutes, then I'm ostracized by all! (maybe there is a better plan 'b'...)

Jon,
I guess you cannot hear what you do not have to compare, but I've heard several, Soundofmind for one, say he was able to hear a noticeable increase in sound quality in the low to mid-range vol. level, due to the better processors in his 2808 vs. his previous 1909. I don't imagine you had a chance to listen to a higher grade AVR, but would you say that you are vey happy with the SQ you achieve, low through high?

What size is your room? Mine is 31 x 23 (as many are tired of hearing ;o)

It is very good to hear from one with the same set up.

PS. Is it true that the 3808 goes to '11', not '10' like all other known amps in the world? (Spinal Tap)

I have an 1804 and the 3808 and I really haven't heard any difference, I thought I could tell a little better low end but nothing drastic.

I went from a 50 watt HK to a 110 watt Onkyo. The biggest difference is the 110 watt Onkyo can make my ears bleed 1 second faster than the 50 watt HK.

I replaced the HK because I needed HDMI. I didn'tconsider the extra watts to be that important.

Dave, you appear to be paying too much attention to relatively minor differences in maximum power ratings. The increase in loudness with increases of watts is logarithmic, not linear; this means that the loudness increase(rather small 3dB)is the same between 1 and 2 watts, 10 and 20 watts, 100 and 200 watts, 1000 and 2000 watts, etc. There's likely to be no good reason to be concerned, for example, with 90 vs 140 watts, a bit less than a 2dB difference, which might allow playing a split-second peak at 107dB rather than 105dB.

Dave, I've owned 60's and currently the 80's. My room is even bigger than yours. My 5-6yr old Denon 2805 played both in my room to levels most people don't listen. In my mind, most people will be hard pressed to tell much difference. The 80's give you a little more detail because of the dual tweets and mids, but not a huge difference. I also found them similar in the bass category.

Honestly, I never thought it could sound any better than my old m60's, I had them for a couple of years. Yes, the 80's peer preassure got to me, and I melted and gave in to 80's.. I do love my 80's, but kinda miss my 60's. ;(

I had the M60s in my house for about a month before the M80s arrived and a couple of weeks after the M80s arrived. I liked the M60s even more once I stopped comparing them to my M22s and any other speaker I could find.

Yes, I do have that 'problem'. I am sure my ear is much more in the "I could not tell a significant difference in normal listening level SQ between 90w and 130w", vs. the camp of folks with more distinguishing ears. I'm working on letting that go.


What was your story on why you ended up having both pairs come to you? Which ones did you keep (or can you say! :D).

I originally ordered the M60's but felt they were not as forward as my M22s, so i felt I was missing out. I hooked up with another forum member in town, Mojo(he has given us up to work more ), We did a big comparison among the Axiom speakers we had and I liked the M80s much better, so I ordered a set, I kept the 60s till the 80s arrived and even then I had a hard time letting the 60s go.