EP800s Under Repair Again

Posted by: SRoode

EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 12:44 PM

One of my EP800s went dead today. I pulled the fuse box and saw a blown fuse. After I replaced it, it immediately blew again. I also tried swapping out the fuse box from my other EP800, and it blew immediately in the damaged speaker.

I called Axiom and JC answered. When I told him what happened he said that the EP800 amps are going through another redesign because there has been a significant amount of this happening. He's going to send me an RMA number, but it will be about 3 weeks until the amp is redesigned and a replacement is sent. For now, only one will come. Another later on (I guess the damaged ones will take priority).

Although I applaud Axiom's unbeatable customer service, I am kind of dissapointed. This will be the 3rd time I have to replace the amps. I know I bought the subs before they were actually released (via the owner's club), but I was hoping the last amp change out would have fixed the problem. It is time consuming to replace amps.

Anyway... Enough of my whining. I'll just have to make due on one EP800 for a couple of weeks. Things could be worse! \:\)

Just wnated all EP800 owners to know.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 12:53 PM

Thanks for the info Steve. I wish you and you 800's a speedy recovery
Mel
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 12:59 PM

Thanks for the heads-up. It certainly is disappointing. It's hard to get things that just work anymore. I'm going to go make sure both of my EP800s are actually working. \:\)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 01:03 PM

Whew. Mine are still alive at this point.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 02:05 PM

Send me your 800s and I'll do the whinning for you. ;\)
Posted by: myrison

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/01/09 04:04 PM

Bummer Steve, but good to hear from you. \:\)

Mine has managed to stay strong thus far... I'll now have to keep my fingers crossed.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 11/02/09 12:13 PM

That sucks. It would not happen with a bigger company, but then you would pay 3x the price and never get anybody to answer the phone. Hopefully this is the last mod needed to perfect the 800.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 05:58 AM

Hey guys, time for an update.

I just got my new amp for the blown EP800 yesterday! The new amp appears to be significantly different than the old. Although the plate indicates a 150W draw, I think they are just using plates that they had in stock. The black protection boot was not attached to the plate, so I was able to take a quick peek inside, and there are 2 toroids there so I am assuming this may be a dual amp (I'm not sure about the old amp since the boot was attached). Another reason I believe the new amp to be a dual amp is that it contains 8 binding posts (4 pairs) instead of 4 (2 pairs). With the old setup, the top driver was jumpered off of the bottom, you had to double lug the wires. Each driver has 2 pairs of binding posts.

Because of the significant difference, the changeout required the removal of both drivers and all internal wiring. The new amp came with pre-attached wires on the lugs (4 pairs). The entire replacement took me about 90 minutes.

Initial impressions are:

1) There is definitely more driver throw. I only have to have the gain at about 50% to get the same throw I get on my other EP800 when it is at 90%.
2) Bass appears to be "tighter" or "punchier". I tried playing several songs last night that have quick bass, and there really appears to be a difference bewteen both of my EP800s. I even called my wife in and did a blind A-B test, and she was able to tell all three times which was the new versus the old amp.

The new amp did not come with any techinical data, so I E-mailed Brent to ask for specs on the new amp. Alan, if you have any details I'd be really interested to know (it's the EE in me).

Anyway, so far so good! My initial impressions are that I much prefer the sound of the new amp to the old, and hopefully this one keeps chugging! I'm also hoping I can get the replacement amp for my second EP800 soon!

Happy Holidays all!
Posted by: grunt

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 06:11 AM

Thanks for the update and glad to hear it’s working so well. Just in time for the holydays.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 06:23 AM

Good news!
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 09:20 AM

Great news SRoode. I would also be interested to hear about the technical changes made to the amp.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 09:55 AM

Interesting. I figured there was a redesign taking place. Sounds like better amp design with the TWO torroids, ie bi-amping the sub.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 10:38 AM

Very cool. If the changes are that significant, I may have to see about getting the updated amps for mine.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 12:23 PM

Awesome. Gah, now i'm biting my nails trying to decide whether to go to the office today to wait for my replacement EP350 amp...
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 12:53 PM

Just go in, but make sure you cough a lot and say, "Ugh, I don't feel so good," and then once your amp comes in go home sick!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 12:54 PM

No, the office is closed today. And fedex already attempted. So my problem is solved!

So do the new EP800 amps also have multiple line level inputs?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 03:33 PM

Actually, no. They have one XLR / 1/4 in Phone in and one XLR Out. They included an attached adapter on the XLR in to convert it to an RCA in. Come to think of it, this is how the A1400 is set up right?

Edit: Here's a scan of the booklet:


Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 03:36 PM

The A1400 has both balanced and unbalanced circuits (two separate connectors to two separate daughter boards). The adapter is for RCA unbalanced to 1/4" unbalanced plugs not for balanced/unbalanced conversion.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 03:46 PM

Interesting changes. Thanks for the scan.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 04:14 PM

 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
The A1400 has both balanced and unbalanced circuits (two separate connectors to two separate daughter boards). The adapter is for RCA unbalanced to 1/4" unbalanced plugs not for balanced/unbalanced conversion.

If an amp takes both balanced and unbalanced, it'll have to have some circuitry to do conversion, unless it is just throwing away half of the balanced input. It'll at least have to combine the differential signals of the balanced to go into a single ended amp. Or create a mirror of the unbalanced to go into a differential amp input.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 04:24 PM

As I recall from that rather unpleasant A1400 thread awhile back, the 1/4" connector is unbalanced and electrically separate from the balanced input, although they're in the same physical connector.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 04:34 PM

"both balanced and unbalanced circuits" means they have two completely independant circuit boards. One takes balanced input, they other takes unbalanced input. They do not cross paths.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 04:54 PM

Snerk. Guess I should have read Eric's post more carefully before making my own. He said it better than me...
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 05:15 PM

The only thing you need to read carefully is The Wheel of Time.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 05:16 PM

This is true. I'd better get on it.

Waaah! I don't want to finish!
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/24/09 05:42 PM

 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
"both balanced and unbalanced circuits" means they have two completely independant circuit boards. One takes balanced input, they other takes unbalanced input. They do not cross paths.

But they have to meet up somewhere (usually at the pre-amp stage) unless it is a completely differential amp with one side doing the push and the other the pull. No one but the esoteric companies does that.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/25/09 01:57 AM

Yes, the balanced circuitry typically has a sensitivity 6dB less than the unbalanced, so that the voltage coming out of both is about the same, but then they both undergo the same(28dB or so)final amplification stage.
Posted by: Ian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/27/09 01:29 PM

SRoode,

There are a lot of changes from the original EP800 amp to the new one. Really the only thing that is the same is the DSP board. The new amp has one power supply for each woofer and one amp for each voice coil (2 power supplies and 4 amps). The original amp ran everything from one power supply and one amp. This made the original configuration a 1 ohm load to the amp. I think this was pushing it just a bit too low as some of them seemed to blow the fuses or the mosfets or both. They both end up being about the same wattage, which is over 1,000 watts, but the new design gets there with a lot less current draw per amplifier. To put a finer point on this new design there are technically 8 amplifiers running. Though the DSP board will accept either a differential or single ended input it outputs only differential. In each of the 4 amplifiers there are two channels; one channel is the pull and the other the push.

Another change is the move to the dual XLR / ¼ phone input jack. This jack has completely separate pin outs for the XLR and ¼ phone for differential and single ended inputs. The standard RCA connection is achieved with the 90 degree adaptor that goes from RCA to ¼ phone. This is a change that is happening on all of our sub amplifiers because we found the single largest service issue was the breaking of the RCA input. Most likely this was caused by either stepping on the cable or pushing the sub too tight against the wall. First we tried 2 mounting screws on the RCA input but it was not enough. The 90 degree adaptor is the proper solution because the RCA jack is now pointing down. If you step on the cable it will just come unplugged.

We can send you the other amp you need on Wednesday.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/27/09 11:09 PM

Ian, it's nice to hear the reasoning behind the changes.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/27/09 11:25 PM

Sounds like a helluva new amp. I want an ep800!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 12:48 AM

I guess the next question would be to ask if all the EP800 amps in use will get the new design as a recall? From the number of issues that have been brought up it seems to me they should.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 01:13 AM

Here's hoping, though the major reason I'd want my amps replaced is for any performance improvements that have been made, if SRoode's observations are accurate. Higher reliability is definitely a plus, but my EP800s are working right now, so for me to want to open them up and possibly jinx myself, an improvement in performance would go a long way.

And hey, stop trying to pass my post count.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 01:42 AM

 Originally Posted By: CV

And hey, stop trying to pass my post count.


I hoped you wouldn't notice ;\) \:\)
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 02:38 AM

I'm just trying to hit 1k by my 1 year mark.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 06:08 AM

Ian,

Thank you very much for the reply! After hours of listening to the "new" EP800 this weekend, I'm at the point where I want to turn the old one off \:\) There is that much of an improvement! Although I had what I considered adequate bass before, I always felt that there was only a small improvement from my prior EP500s. With the new amp, the EP800 is a totally different animal. The new one scares me.

I have the new EP800 set at only 50% on the gain knob, and I think I will have to turn it down a but more (I'll know for sure after I recalibrate). All music is much deeper and tighter, and it does not sound like the sub is "straining" anymore. I watched "The Dark Knight" on Blu-Ray last night with my wife, and the bass was so intense in some scenes that I actually started to get a feeling of fear or worry (I don't know how else to put it, but did you ever get a feeling when you were listening to something that is so intense you think to yourself that you should not be listening to it?). It actually shook my projector which is mounted to a structural beam on the celing, and the subs are on the concrete pad of the house in the basement!

I REALLY look forward to seeing how the pair of EP800s will perform! Again Ian, thank you very much for the redesign, I LOVE the way the sub performs now!

-Steve
Posted by: Ian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 06:26 AM

CV,

Anyone with one of the original amps in their EP800 that wants to make the replacement to the new amp is no problem. Changing it over is a bit more involved then just switching the amp but it is not too bad. You need to remove both woofers in the process because the wiring is different but we will send the new amp with the new wires already attached.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 06:29 AM

I think Axiom's customer support is trying to surpass Axiom's customer support! \:\)
It is always nice, even when not directly involved, to see customers well taken care of.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 08:09 AM

Good to know. Thanks, Ian!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 11:19 AM

Brent put me on the list for the updated amps. Fun, fun.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 11:45 AM

Steve. Its nice to hear your EP800 is performing the way you want it to now.

It is good to see a resolution for what seemed like a higher than normal number of issues with a new product, and yet another fine example of how a company should handle such a situation.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 01:07 PM

Once again Axiom CS steps up and hits a home run.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 02:22 PM

...and they did it without using Stereo-roids, haha.

Ok! they did use Tor-roids though. \:D
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 04:18 PM

I must admit I was getting a little anxious there towards the end (I waited about 7 weeks for the replacement amp, and sent a couple of e-mails about the status). But I can honestly say the new amp was worth the wait, it sounds like a totally new speaker.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 05:52 PM

Glad to hear your enjoying your new EP800 Steve. I'm trying to get the new amps for my EP800's as well. \:\) Might have to invite Jay over again if I do get my hands on these.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 07:02 PM

Sounds good to me!! \:\) Or bring them down to my new house once I am in and we could have an Axiom GTG.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 07:15 PM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Or bring them down to my new house once I am in and we could have an Axiom GTG.


At 110 lbs each, do I take the chance on getting a hernia loading them into my car \:\)
Remeber I'm an old fragile OLD man Jay ;\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 07:17 PM

I could help, if I lived closer \:\)
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/28/09 11:05 PM

Very good, Steve(and certainly Ian as well); enjoy.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 12:16 AM

And this is why i tend to wait for a first revision of electronics before jumping in.

I wonder how the RMA rate is on the new amps.
Posted by: BigHonu

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 04:01 AM

I have never had issues with my Axioms, but have not had any second guesses about recommending their products. Excellent sound and excellent people.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 10:04 AM

You absolutely HAVE to stop talking about the ep800.. I want one now!

\:\)
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 10:13 AM

The EP800 costs $2350.

Did that help?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 10:29 AM

It did, David just ordered two of them. \:D
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 07:39 PM

LOL, yeah I actually really want to use the trade up program with my ep500 to get an ep800, but going to hold off for a while. We are saving for a house down payment or my wife's dental hygiene schooling, neither of which is cheap.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 07:53 PM

Could you convince her that the EP800 is just a glorified plaque removal tool?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 10:36 PM

Might be worth a shot.

I am really glad that they have made what seems to be substantial improvements to the ep800. Hopefully you won't have any more problems!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 10:52 PM

Maybe Micah will even give it another go. Or... maybe not.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/29/09 11:20 PM

My guess would be that Micah's been patiently waiting on the redesign.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/30/09 12:12 AM

I thought he was going to build an infinite baffle sub.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 12/30/09 12:17 AM

Yeah, and I vote that he still goes that route, since I want to see the long thread about the whole process.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:20 PM

Was at work today and happened to be walking through our stores / warehouse reciving area this morning. I looked left as I was walking and saw an Axiom box sitting on the floor. As I was walking to the box I was thinking - "who at work would be ordering from Axiom?" When I got to the box, the label on it had my name on it \:o and it contained a new amp for one of my EP800's \:D \:\) \:\) \:\) I guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.
I did not receive an e-mail saying it was on the way.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:23 PM

awesome
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:24 PM

Weekend? What are you doing right now?!

I've resolved myself to knowing that I won't own an EP800 any time soon, so I need my vicarious fix from you that do own them.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:25 PM

No RMA number, no receiving! You should return it and ask for a proper email to be sent.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:30 PM

Chris, I would love to do it asap but after a day of work my mind is drained (what left of it). I would not what to screw something up by not focusing properly. So I will bit my tongue and leave it for a day I CAN focus. I don't want a Micah EP800 on my hands. \:D
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 08:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
No RMA number, no receiving! You should return it and ask for a proper email to be sent.


UHHHHHHH, NO WAY!
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/06/10 09:57 PM

Trust me Onn, you will love it!!!

(Still waiting for my replacement for EP800 #2)...
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 02:17 AM

I'm sure I must have some reason to go to Edmonton soon...... \:\)
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Trust me Onn, you will love it!!!

(Still waiting for my replacement for EP800 #2)...


Steve, if you hadn't of mentioned the new amp details I would have been blissfully unaware of this new amp. Also with your review I can hardly wait for the changing of the amps. I too look forward for my second one to show up :sigh:
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
I'm sure I must have some reason to go to Edmonton soon...... \:\)


You know how to find me, but your probably going to be quite busy with the move into your new home for the next few months. \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 12:41 PM

Yup, movers are scheduled for Feb.3, this gives me the previous weekend to do the custom paint jobs(striping) my boys want in there bedrooms before the furniture and boxes get in the way \:\) I have to get my sub and the M22s set up for the first few days of painting and house set up. Once the movers are done I will have the M80s back to play with \:\)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 07:34 PM

That's great, Mel! I look forward to your review!
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 07:54 PM

ditto
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:22 PM

A review by me would be very disappointing. I do not have a way with words as others on this forum with the higher post counts would have. I will have to figure out a way to A/B the old and new amp. Or I get Jay up here and help him with his post count.
Mel
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:27 PM

You won't need an A/B comparison...

Usually I would say something like "the new amp breathes new life into the EP800", but this change is extreme. The change will be noticed without an A/B comparison.

You will be very afraid of it! \:\)
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:28 PM

you guys gotta stop pushing the EP800, your making me wonder what could be. \:\) lol
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:30 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
you guys gotta stop pushing the EP800, your making me wonder what could be. \:\) lol


If you come on over to the dark side with us you can find out for yourself.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 08:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
You will be very afraid of it! \:\)


Steve
Why are you trying to scare me. It's only a sub amp after all.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 10:13 PM

Hook that sucker up already! ;\)
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 10:27 PM

Yeah Randy, think of all that trade up credit you have with the ep600 and two ep350s ;\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/07/10 10:29 PM

It has to be at least ep1300...
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 12:15 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
You won't need an A/B comparison...

Usually I would say something like "the new amp breathes new life into the EP800", but this change is extreme. The change will be noticed without an A/B comparison.

You will be very afraid of it! \:\)


What kind of graph would this change be seen on?

It's a serious question. I have no doubt there's a difference, but I'm wondering where it shows up on paper.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 02:24 AM

Because the amp was seeing an 2 Ohm load, this would cause current to flow very easily. While that does increase the power output of an amp, it can increase it beyond spec. An amp pushed beyond its design limits will have a higher THD, this comes from the output stage not being able to handle that much current. Distortion can also come from clipping if the transformer can't provide enough power, and sags under the demand. Even without clipping an over taxed power supply will cause dynamic range compression, and lower output levels.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 08:28 AM

There you have it. Mr neon explains all.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 04:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ian
CV,

Anyone with one of the original amps in their EP800 that wants to make the replacement to the new amp is no problem. Changing it over is a bit more involved then just switching the amp but it is not too bad. You need to remove both woofers in the process because the wiring is different but we will send the new amp with the new wires already attached.


Wow. Nice (and appropriate) move. You will never make it at Samsung!
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 04:53 PM

I can tell you that it certainly "feels" different. There is noticeably much more rumble from the new amp. I have the new amp at only 50% gain and the old at 90% gain. The new amped speaker drivers have the same throw as the old with these settings, but the rumble and air pressure sensations in the room is much greater.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/08/10 05:00 PM

Good. I'll give you $100 American dollars for that old junkie ep800 you don't need anymore. You just cover shipping...Deal?
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/09/10 10:26 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
I can tell you that it certainly "feels" different. There is noticeably much more rumble from the new amp. I have the new amp at only 50% gain and the old at 90% gain. The new amped speaker drivers have the same throw as the old with these settings, but the rumble and air pressure sensations in the room is much greater.


An update
I woke up this morning at 0300 and proceeded to switch my amp out. Did a quick recalibrations and put a test disk in the OPPO (UB-571 Depth charge scene). The way I have my crossovers set up is 40 for all 4 of my M80's and 80 for the VP150. Steve is right in saying that the rumbing effect is much greater with the new amp as compared to the old. The gain knob on the old is set about 55% and on the new is 65%. which is opposite to Steve probably due to room layout and sub placement. I have errands to do the rest of the day so tomorrow will give me time to further test this new amp out.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 11:34 AM

I did a test with the LOTR The Return of The King DVD and yes Steve is correct. You do get more of the deep bass shaking than with the old amp. It will be scary when the other one shows up. I did have new rattles in the house that I didn't have before that I will have to try to eliminate. \:D
All an all a great upgrade IMO
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 11:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: onn
It will be scary when the other one shows up.

Ask Axiom to attach a bell to the box. It won't scare you if you hear it coming... ;\)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 01:50 PM

Unless it's one of Hell's bells? Maybe they should attach a belle to the box.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 02:11 PM

Charles I have not read anything yet from you on if you have received the new amp yet. What's up with that?
Mel
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 02:13 PM

I have not received it yet. I assumed I'd be far down on the list. With my luck I'll get the rest of my computer parts as well as the new amp(s) on the same day and be torn on what to do first.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 02:44 PM

Just make sure you put the fan into the computer and the amp in your sub and it'll all be fine.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 02:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: CV
I have not received it yet. I assumed I'd be far down on the list. With my luck I'll get the rest of my computer parts as well as the new amp(s) on the same day and be torn on what to do first.


You can send the amp to me and I'll let you know how well it sounds \:D While your doing that you can take care of your computer. Problem solved
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 03:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: CV
With my luck I'll get the rest of my computer parts as well as the new amp(s) on the same day and be torn on what to do first.


That's a great reason! Thanks Charles, I'll have to use that one sometime.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 03:53 PM

Wait, what are you going to use it on?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/10/10 04:09 PM

Ummm........, darn it you are good \:\) !
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/11/10 03:16 PM

You guys with the EP800(s) gotta try playing "The Gates of Istanbul" by Loreena McKennitt. This song really shakes my house with a single DSP3400!


*note: cannott be held responsible for structural damages to home.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/22/10 12:57 AM

I ordered the CD with that track on it, and in related news, my new EP800 amps were shipped today. There's no estimated delivery date yet, but it's usually around a week.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/22/10 01:52 AM

Woo hoo! Hope you notice definite improvements.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/22/10 07:46 AM

Sweet. let us know what you think of them!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 12:13 AM

Steve, did your replacement amp come with detailed instructions on installing it? I just want to know if I need to be requesting some instructions via email or not.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 12:16 AM

If it's anything like my EP350 amp, I can't imagine there would be many instructions involved.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 12:30 AM

No, I suppose there wouldn't be many, but I always feel better following something specific, especially on expensive gear like the EP800s.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 05:24 AM

In this case you will need instructions (they do come with them) because the new amp will require you to rewire the speaker. The old amp, as well as both of your drivers, will have to be removed. It took me about 45 mins to do the replacement.

Brent just said my 2nd one shipped out yesterday!!!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 07:44 AM

Great news Steve!
Charles, Axiom does send out instructions that are easy to follow. One thing I would suggest is that you remove the amp and both woofers first before doing anything about re-install. The instructions said to remove the amp and install the new one before going to the woofers. I did that but then the woofers were a pain in the ass to remove. I had to take the amp out again and push the woofer from the inside. Your situation may be different so disregard this note if it does not apply to you. By the way, I think you will be impressed with the new amp. \:\)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 09:52 AM

Thanks for the tip, Mel.

Steve, I'm glad your 2nd one is on its way. I'm pretty excited about trying this out.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/23/10 02:39 PM

Well, it looks like I may actually get them on Monday. They're already in Spokane, Washington.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/24/10 06:48 AM

So by Monday evening we can expect a full report / review? Those of us that live vicariously through you would appreciate it!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/24/10 01:50 PM

Ha. Yes, maybe by the following Monday evening.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/26/10 12:03 AM

I missed the attempted delivery today. At least it only requires an indirect signature, which means I can sign the door tag they left so they can leave the amps for me tomorrow.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/26/10 06:00 AM

You're a SIG tease!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/26/10 07:11 PM

Got a surprise package today at work again. My new amp for the other EP-800 \:\) I guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/26/10 07:47 PM

I want some EP-800s so I can get surprise amps in the mail.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 01:22 AM

Steve or Mel, I just have one question on the instructions. It's telling me to attach the sets of wires to the right sides and left sides of the woofers, but there are wire ties on the sets which make it impossible to do that. Do I clip the wire ties off to do it, or do they really mean to connect a set to the top of the woofer and another to the bottom of the woofer? I'll also email Axiom, so we'll see who responds first.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 01:25 AM

Oh, I'm wondering if the instructions were for the horizontal configuration of the EP800, maybe?
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 01:57 AM

Hmm, that can't be good. I assumed I'd keep the sets of wires on the same sets of terminals and closed it up. When I first turn the sub on, it makes a sound like someone blowing into a microphone, immediately followed by a continuous tap-dancing sound. I guess I'll wait to hear back from Brent before proceeding.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 02:50 AM

I just noticed that Amie's the one who shipped the amps. It's nice to know she's still out there somewhere.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 07:54 AM

Hi CV
By going by my memory there are two sets of wires a blue and white set and a red and white set. The blue and white set is atteched to the farthest away woofer and the red and white to the nearest. The different coloured sets of wire should be different lengths. Oh and by the way my subs are vertical so I don't know if they change the wiring any if you have a horizontal one. Yours are vertical are they not? I did not have to cut anything off of the wires for install. If it matters any I get a sound also when I turn the sub on. When I figure out how to record this sound with the dB level I will send it to Axiom to see what they say. I'm leaving it on all the time now because I hate to listen to noise when I switch on the sub. I hope I haven't confused you more than I feel right now. I will check the other amp I recived yesterday to see if the wiring is any different than the first one.
Have you demoed the new amps yet?
Mel
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 10:21 AM

The sound I get when I turn on the sub doesn't go away. It stays on until I turn the sub off, and it's not faint. I stopped after the first amp when this came up, so no, I haven't demoed.

You described the wiring fine. The issue I had was with the instructions telling me to hook them up to the right side and left side of the woofer when the sets of terminals are on the top and bottom of the woofer, which would mean having one wire from a set going to the top and another going to the bottom. However, if the instructions were written with the horizontal config in mind, then I imagine it would keep the set of wires with the same set of terminals.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/27/10 12:18 PM

Sorry I misunderstood your question CV. I thought the sound only occured during the initial turning on of the amp.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 10:23 AM

CV,

I just got my 2nd replacement amp about 10 mins ago. I took a picture for you:



The two pairs of blue/white wires go to the further away speaker (one blue and one white on one side of the speaker, one blue and one white on the other.

The two pairs of red/black wires go to the closer speaker (one red and one black on one side of the speaker, one red and one black on the other.

Make sure you read the instructions that tell you which colors go on the (+) connection, and which colors go on the (-).

Steve
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 10:50 AM

It would be fun to tell CV to reverse the polarity of one driver only. Then he could sit there and watch the two drivers going crazy fighting it out...only to produce a big null.

That would drive him up the wall.

Yeah.

It WOULD be fun!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 12:23 PM

JC revised the instructions to say top and bottom instead of left and right. I was careful to match the colors the way it said in the instructions, but when I dismantle the EP800 again tonight/tomorrow, I'll double-check. Here's hoping it really was a goof on my part and I don't have to wait for another replacement amp. Then I'll do the second EP800.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 12:57 PM

I hooked up the new amp and it works great.

I'm hoping that it's just a polarity problem on your end. Let me know how it turns out.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 07:04 PM

Well, I guess I spoke too soon...

I had been running the new amp for about 2 hours and was listening in the adjacent room. I smelled something buring and went back into the theater to find out the new speaker was smoking. I ran over and turned the receiver off and the speaker started "hissing". I unplugged the new speaker as quickly as I could and thhe back plate was red hot. It's still pretty hot after about 20 mins. It smells really bad, like burning electronics and plastic... My whole basement smells like that now.

I called Axiom and J.C. answered. He said to send it back for another one, but at this point I don't think I want to anymore. This scared the heck out of me, and could have started a fire... I neeed some time to calm down but right now I am very scared and very angry. The though of taking this speaker apart again just doesn't sit well with me.

I'm going to step away for a bit to calm down.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 07:14 PM

Holy cow! that's not good.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 10:49 PM

Yikes!!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/29/10 11:03 PM

That's all I needed to hear right now Steve
Thanks for the heads up. We don't need fire problems with our equipment
Mel
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 12:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Well, I guess I spoke too soon...
I'm going to step away for a bit to calm down.


Ouch. Now I'm even more unsure of trying again. I still will, but ouch.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 07:10 AM

Hi Guys,

I calmed down a bit since last night. I sent Ian a PM and told him what was going on. I asked if in this case Axiom could just send me a fully tested replacement EP800 (speaker and amp) instead of just the amp. I don't want to disassemble the unit again, and I would prefer to leave it just as is so when it is shipped back Axiom can see that I wired everything correctly.

The thing that is kind of sad about this is that my wife and kids were with me downstairs listening to the music with me in the other rooom. When I ran into the theater room I of course got excited and started to panic a bit. Now the wife is a little scared of the sub, and the kids keep saying the "music is broken" and won't go near the speakers... \:\(
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 07:11 AM

Sounds like a capacitor went bad.... there might have been fluid leakage inside the cabinet as well.

I had that happen with a studio flash head at a client's not too long ago. Smelled horrible, hissed, and it peed on his carpet.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 07:22 AM

Hi Steve
Last night after reading your post I checked the back of the amps. Since I still have one old and one new amp I touched the back of both. The old amp was cool to the touch and the new one was hot. I will be phoning Axiom today to find out what I should do since I wanted to change out my other amp this weekend \:\(
Sorry to hear about your misfortune but thanks again for giving the rest of us the heads up about this.
Mel
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 07:59 AM

Mark - That's basically what happened. Some smoke, a loud hissing and a terrible smell. I'm hoping if any liquid came out, it stays inside the speaker.

Mel - My other EP800 with the new amp is warm to the touch when driving it, but not hot. I never felt my old amp to see what the temperature was. But the new one was definitely hot (you would not want to keep your hand on it). It took a good 20 mins to be at what I would consider "warm" after I unplugged it.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 08:33 AM

Steve, FWIW, I had been told that a blown capacitor seems much worse than it is. It was easy to get pretty damned concerned pretty quick... when you hear that hissing coming from a device plugged in, it sounds like it's gonna blow up real good! But in reality, it's not that big a deal.

I'm not downplaying your concern, but if the cap is the problem, it's really not too serious. As they say, if something is going to go wrong with an electronic part, it's likely to happen in it's early-use stage.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 12:41 PM

Hi All,

I got a PM back from Ian. He was concerned about the whole situation, and agrees that he wants the whole EP800 back in the untouched state to see what happened. His initial thoughts are in alignment with Mark's (a blown capacitor) and that although things like this seem bad, they are not too serious (I was just pretty shook up last night).

He will be arranging for shipping this one back tomorrow, so it will probably be a couple of weeks until I hear some more.

Thanks again everyone here for your support, and a special thanks to Ian for being there when I really needed some help.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 12:42 PM

I'm glad it was resolved and you've regained some composure. I would have been freaking out, too.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 01:48 PM

Yeah, I don't blame you for freaking out. Pretty scary situation. I'm glad Ian responded and is taking care of you.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 02:37 PM

Wow.... Please keep us updated on the situation!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/30/10 07:32 PM

I called Axiom today and spoke to Brent about the amp issues he had. I will wait for word from Brent on what caused this to happen before I install my other new amp. In the meantime I will get a temp reader from work and monitor the difference in amp temps between the old and new one. Just for my piece of mind. I also will shut off the subs when not in use.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 01/31/10 06:41 PM

I have been out of the loop on the ep800 saga, here is my little bit: My first pre-release ep800 was DOA, but the box was pretty smashed up so most likely it was the shipper at fault.

The replacement unit had a version 1 amp, from what I understand, the one with the thumping sound when you turn it off, although it appeared that version 2 had already been issued according to the forums.

Everything worked great until one day when I sat down to watch Hulk, my old nemesis that always shut down the XPA2, I blew out the top speaker (the cone was frozen forward) during some of the deep bass scenes toward the end.

Axiom immediately replaced the speaker but occasionally I still hear a popping sound on low bass even on TV at not all that loud volumes, i.e., shows that mix in a little too much sub. The crackling or popping sound in great profusion had immediately preceded the speaker being blown during the viewing of Hulk. I am running a denon 3808 into an Axiom 1400-8 and generally play back below 0 db on the volume.

Anyway I thought the ep800 dsp was supposed to prevent overdriving the subwoofers? It's an occasional issue and not an issue with music, but part of the fun with HT material is just to be able to sit back and let the explosions unfold, so it spoils things a bit to hear popping sounds during the most dramatic scenes and have to grab for the remote so the speaker won't be blown.

I haven't taken the time to read through all of these posts, but if anyone could clarify anything with regard to the popping sound/blown subwoofer issue I am experiencing, it would be much appreciated.

SatKartr
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 12:48 AM

Very cool, a representative from Axiom responded to my post and states that the popping/crackling sound is an instability issue with the V1 amp and the V2 amp will be out of beta soon and they will send me one to check out in my ep800.

I suppose if it's broke maybe it's time to fix it, once we transcend beta, eh? \:\)

Axiom rules, I didn't even call to complain, how's that for product support!
\:\)
SK
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 01:52 AM

I'm seriously going to work on the amp switch again this weekend. I've been a bit leery, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 06:52 AM

Don't worry. The reports of explosions if you touch the wrong wire is mostly hearsay.


Mostly.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 07:03 AM

Hey Steve
Any word from Axiom yet on what the problem with your amp was?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 07:09 AM

Hi Onn,

I'm on the road for work, but my wife called last night and told me a brand new EP800 was delivered! The entire speaker, not just an amp. I won't be able to move it down to the basement and hook it up until next weekend.

As far as what the problem was, they won't know until I ship the fried one back. I'll be shipping my blown one back next weekend in the box they used to ship me my new one. I can't believe I got the new one so quickly!

I'll let all of you know how it turns out.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 11:16 AM

Good news Steve. Hope this is one's the charm.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 01:35 PM

"Hi, Mrs. Steve? I'm a friend of Mr. Steve. He asked me if I can help him move his new EP800. Well, I'm going to start by moving it into my van. Yeah, I know. It seems weird and all, but it's all very complex and scientific. Can you just guide me out the door a bit? Steve sure wouldn't like it if I marked up the wall with the box! "
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 01:58 PM

Great news Steve. Let us know how the new sub sounds.
Mel
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 11:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
1) There is definitely more driver throw. I only have to have the gain at about 50% to get the same throw I get on my other EP800 when it is at 90%.
2) Bass appears to be "tighter" or "punchier". I tried playing several songs last night that have quick bass, and there really appears to be a difference bewteen both of my EP800s. I even called my wife in and did a blind A-B test, and she was able to tell all three times which was the new versus the old amp.


I can confirm there is a profound difference. There is quite a lot more driver movement with the new amp. I'll have to redo the AS-EQ1 calibration at some point, but I'll wait until I have both EP800s running the new amp.

Speaking of which, when I opened the sub with the issue to double-check the wiring, it was, indeed, hooked up correctly, so something must have happened to the amp in shipping to give it that weird tapping sound. I'll get in contact with JC about getting yet another amp shipped to me.

With the number of amp problems that have come up, I'm wondering how financially viable it would be for Axiom to simply design the amps and have someone else manufacture them, kind of like how some companies design computer chips and have someone else actually make them. If there's a large enough operation out there that could produce the amps at a similar cost and at a higher reliability, maybe at some point the Axiom products with amplifiers could start going down in price. The other option is, of course, for something to change in Axiom's own process. I just don't know how much money it would take to revamp their manufacturing. Maybe my impressions about problems are inaccurate, but if it's as much of an issue as it seems to be, what's the best way to remedy it?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 11:24 PM

Charles, that would depend on whether the problem was with the design or the manufacture.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/06/10 11:27 PM

\:\) Very good point. I slipped into an assumption.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 03:08 AM

Another note: I'm getting more hum with the new amp. It's slightly audible from the listening position, which it was not with the previous amp. Unscrewing the ground screw actually makes it disturbingly loud.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:41 AM

And another note: Yeah, I just noticed how warm the amp was. It's certainly hotter than the other EP800 is, so I'm not comfortable leaving it plugged in. I appreciate the new performance, so here's hoping these other hiccups can be worked through quickly.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 05:28 AM

Is the amp just "warm" (like the A1400) or actually hot?
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 05:48 AM

I guess it depends on your definitions of warm and hot. It's not so hot that I can't keep my hand on it, but it's warmer than the A1400-8 and way warmer than the other EP800.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 09:02 AM

I've been monitoring the temps between the old and new amps. After 4 or more hours of listening to my system I get the following temps
Old Amp 27.8C (82F)
New Amp 36.8C (98.2)
I don't know if this is too hot but it is a difference. I will keep monitoring to see if anything changes. This was during listening to music and not watching movies that I will try later to see if real heavy bass workload increases the temp any.
Mel
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 09:17 AM

 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Charles, that would depend on whether the problem was with the design or the manufacture.


It looks like the original premature amp failures were based on a design issue from what was discussed here before. Manufacturing boils down to the quality control and quality assurance programs in place. My understanding is that all the EP subwoofers are assembled in house at their factory here in Canada. IMO this would allow for the best best QC/QA. If they would outsource manufacturing, to make it cost effective while keeping within the same margins (lowering prices), he would have to outsource to China or some other country which could make it even more problematic to quality issues. I assume tolerances within the design are much smaller for subwoofers (amps) than with speakers (networks/crossovers), so more care has to be taken with the electronic portion.

Axiom doesn't seem to have history of problems with their electronics from what I have noticed. From the responses on the forum the EP800 has been the exception where the failure rates well above the norm.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 10:05 AM

 Originally Posted By: onn
I've been monitoring the temps between the old and new amps. After 4 or more hours of listening to my system I get the following temps
Old Amp 27.8C (82F)
New Amp 36.8C (98.2)
I don't know if this is too hot but it is a difference. I will keep monitoring to see if anything changes. This was during listening to music and not watching movies that I will try later to see if real heavy bass workload increases the temp any.
Mel


I don't think you have anything to worry about Mel. My 1st replacement amp is about that temperature, no problems (basically body temperature). The one that smoked was so hot I could not keep my hand on the plate. There must have been a short somewhere.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 10:56 AM

I'd like to add some more information if I could. Firstly, I hope Ian is not upset that I brought this public before receiving the speaker. It's been very hard to keep my excitement under wraps for the last 5 weeks, and I am truly looking forward to the new addition to the theater.

Secondly, and more importantly, I wanted to let everyone know how truly proud I am to be a part of the Axiom family. I was so impressed with not only Ian's depth of knowledge of speaker design and placement, but his true enthusiasm of what he and Axiom do. You can easily tell that this is more than a profession, this is a real love of what you do in your life, and it's something that is so rare today. “Speaking” (through E-mail) with Ian was like speaking with an old friend.

I would also like to add that my misfortunes so far with the EP800s should be expected. I bought prototypes and I knew that going in. I didn't really have any fear or concern because I knew Axiom would be there. Even my wife, a CPA, had absolutely no reservations because she now LOVES listening to music, and knows the type of solid company that Axiom is. They have given me customer service above and beyond any expectations I would have had before my purchases. Ian was in contact with me when my EP800 blew, and was extremely concerned. I was not expecting a replacement for a while because I know they are in limited supply and Axiom is still working the kinks out. Without any notice, an entire replacement speaker (not just an amp) was sent to me, and I didn't even box the old one up yet. This is as good as it gets.

I own 11 Axiom speakers, and I will never buy another brand speaker as long as Axiom is in business.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 11:06 AM

Steve, obviously the majority of us have been watching this from the sidelines and imo you and a couple of the other guys who have the 800's have shown a lot of patience with resolving these teething problems. Ian and his company have shown true professionalism to make things right, but so too, have you guys with your patience.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 11:15 AM

Well said, Steve. Our forum community shares a passion with audio and it's nice to see the company we support share that enthusiasm as well. Not only that, but to be concerned with our enjoyment over most other factors makes Axiom a very special company to be associated with.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 01:03 PM

I posted this in the M80 center thread and it was moved here (I don't know who did it), so put that in perspective about my excitement for the new speaker (the new center channel)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 03:34 PM

Steve, I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said about Axiom and Ian. I love supporting this company, and I hope no one there takes it personally when I post about a less-than-positive experience. The only thing is that I was NOT aware I was getting non-final hardware when I preordered the EP800s, and again when I got replacement amps, and again when I got this wave of replacement amps. I only find out after the fact when I read this board. I somehow keep missing any sort of heads-up.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 03:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Axiom doesn't seem to have history of problems with their electronics from what I have noticed. From the responses on the forum the EP800 has been the exception where the failure rates well above the norm.


It seems like there are plenty of amp replacements with all DSP models. The EP800 does seem to be even more prone to failure so far, but it does feel like I'm reading quite frequently for people to call Axiom because of an issue that has cropped up with their [pick your model]. I'm not totally comfortable saying something like this since I have no hard numbers, but I also want to be able to recommend Axiom to other people without holding back, and considering my own issues with both the EP600 and EP800, I would have to point people in another direction as far as subwoofers go. I'm still waiting it out, though, because I think it will certainly be worth it when the bugs are worked out.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 03:59 PM

 Originally Posted By: CV
 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Axiom doesn't seem to have history of problems with their electronics from what I have noticed. From the responses on the forum the EP800 has been the exception where the failure rates well above the norm.


It seems like there are plenty of amp replacements with all DSP models. The EP800 does seem to be even more prone to failure so far, but it does feel like I'm reading quite frequently for people to call Axiom because of an issue that has cropped up with their [pick your model]. I'm not totally comfortable saying something like this since I have no hard numbers, but I also want to be able to recommend Axiom to other people without holding back, and considering my own issues with both the EP600 and EP800, I would have to point people in another direction as far as subwoofers go. I'm still waiting it out, though, because I think it will certainly be worth it when the bugs are worked out.


The time period starting with the new EP500 amps that have been redesigned with the use a subsonic filter have been problematic as well the EP800 since its been released. I can't recall any other EP models that have had overwhelming issues on a consistent basis. But I agree with you here, I would have a hard time recommending either model right now.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:11 PM

Maybe not overwhelming, but enough to make me think that this is what's keeping the subwoofer prices where they are. I know I'm not the only one getting this impression, but I suppose I should stop talking now. I can't say I really want to scare people away from Axiom since they have ALWAYS stood behind whatever product they've sold me. I feel bad when I cut into their profits because I keep having them ship me replacements, though.
Posted by: rvrrat

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:26 PM

You should not feel bad. Companies often find it cheaper to put a product on the market a little early and let customers help to sort out problems in real world conditions. You might call it beta. I am not sure this is what Axiom is doing with their subwoofers, but they seem to be having a hard time with them. I am semi-OK with that as long as everything gets fixed it the long term. Not one ounce of guilt should be felt by the customer for wanting perfection however.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:26 PM

I am not under the impression lower failure rates would lead them to drop prices on their subwoofers. I am under the impression that prices are much higher for their subwoofers due to the fact they are a Canadian company (value of currency is less than US thus does not go as far), the drivers, assembly of componenets are done in house (EP series) rather than in overseas manufacturing like their speaker line (which many competitors use to keep costs down). Maybe Axiom feels the need for skilled North American labour/QA/QC in this area which also keep costs up. Another reason for the inflated MSRP is that shipping is included. You also have to realize that we do pay for customer service in all the products including speakers. These are all factors that determine MSRP and which probably influnce why prices on their subwoofers are higher than the competition.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:34 PM

They don't really need to drop their prices. That's their decision. I know I wouldn't mind the prices if I'd had no issues. There's simply that desire to have the brand you own to be regarded as a "giant-killer." It's always fun to brag about what a great deal you got.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 04:46 PM

I understand where you are coming from CV. One of the suggestions I mentioned in the recent Axiom survey was to have separate pricing for multiple subwoofers. Leave pricing on a single subwoofer the same and pass incentive/savings onto the consumer for purchasing multiple 2/3/4 subwoofers.


Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 05:15 PM

That's a pretty good idea, something beyond the 5% HT discount. I like it.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 05:20 PM

 Originally Posted By: CV
That's a pretty good idea, something beyond the 5% HT discount. I like it.


Yes. The idea that savings can be passed if a customer decides to just purchase multiple subwoofers or/and can also be factored into the current savings on factory outlet purchases (10%) as well as what is currently offered with system packages (5%)/purchase of 5 or more items of a certain value.
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 05:24 PM


I know some other ID companies do this. It's good idea.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 10:20 PM

Yes, it does seem to have varied with the design changes. My EP500 is a little over 3 years old, with about 7,000 hours of trouble-free operation.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/07/10 10:30 PM

Thats a big daily dose of classical music ;\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/12/10 06:16 AM

Hi guys,

I got back into town late last night, and my wife helped me carry the new EP800 downstairs, then bring the old one up. I forgot how heavy these things are! I just had time to hook it up and listen for about 10 mins or so, and everything seemed good so far. I'll have some time to listen to it a bit this weekend, and I'll tell you all how it goes.

I did notice that after 10 mins of playing last night, the back plate did not get hot at all (it was actually barely warm).
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/12/10 11:29 PM

Sounds promising \:\)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/13/10 02:49 AM

As far as amp warmth on mine, I'm not quite as concerned, but it's still a bit warmer than I would like. It doesn't seem like it can be healthy having it that warm with no ventilation, but maybe it really is fine.

I'm going to switch the positions of the two EP800s this weekend. I put the replacement amp in the one on the wall closest to the two openings simply because it was the easiest one to access, but having it on the opposite wall will make it a lot more effective. I'll have to run the AS-EQ1 calibration again, or I might just run them straight from the Integra and skip the sub EQ until I get two fully-functional new-version EP800s. I'm sure it will be fun to really crank the new one in the better position.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/13/10 05:14 AM

I was able to put the new sub through it's paces yesterday. I listen to about 3 hours of music and several scenes in movies and the new sub performed wonderfully! No burning or smoke, just nice deep bass. My thanks again to Ian and the Axiom gang for shipping a replacement so quickly!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/13/10 07:57 AM

Great to hear everything is working again Steve
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 02/13/10 08:51 AM

That's good news, Steve!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/13/10 04:29 AM

Just to update everyone, JC emailed me on the 10th with the following:

 Originally Posted By: JC
Hi C.V.,

Axiom has completed all the tests and the result is a bullet proof solution. Axiom will phone you on the day when it will ship you your replacement subs; it will be in a near future.

Have a splendid day !

JC


I look forward to receiving the (hopefully) finalized amps. Then I can start inviting people over for movies and games again. Of course, that also means cleaning the house again, too.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/13/10 05:22 AM

 Originally Posted By: CV
Of course, that also means cleaning the house again, too.

That sounds like a price too high to pay for a more stable sub. Keep the current one. \:\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/13/10 06:13 AM

I got a PM from Ian about 2 weeks ago pertaining to my center M80 speaker, and he did say that they were finishing up a final solution on the EP800s, and I may get new amps shipped in the near future, so this is REALLY good news CV! JC did say replacement Subs, not Amps, so you may get lucky and not have to rewire this time!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/13/10 10:02 AM

I noticed he said subs, too, so that would be really great if it's true. \:\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/19/10 04:55 PM

Good news. Just got an E-Mail from Peter. An entire new sub is being sent for my 1st sub that has it's 3rd amp. This is the sub that did not burn out. Also, a new amp is being sent to replace the amp in the new sub I got last month to replace the burned out sub. I'm a little confused, but it sounds like a good thing! ;\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/19/10 07:33 PM

Ian must be pulling his hair out with this sub problem
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/19/10 08:35 PM

He shouldn't. I would be so happy with what I have now. No problems, and the bass shakes my house. I never asked for anything more. My post was sort of tongue in cheek. To get a brand new left sub, and a new amp for my right without asking is just incredible. Axiom's support is unmatched, it really is so uncommon today.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/19/10 09:26 PM

Good luck Sroode. That must be a fantastic set up.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 03:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
He shouldn't. I would be so happy with what I have now. No problems, and the bass shakes my house. I never asked for anything more. My post was sort of tongue in cheek. To get a brand new left sub, and a new amp for my right without asking is just incredible. Axiom's support is unmatched, it really is so uncommon today.
I see, once again Axiom customer service goes above and beyond. \:\)
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 08:13 AM

This morning I head downstairs to the living room to start my day and I smell what seems like rubber. I thought it was a new (old) fridge I had put in the basement yesterday so I head downstairs. Check the fridge and everything is OK with that, no smell. Head back to the living room and I focus in on my EP800's. I touch the back plate of the left one and it is scorching hot. I also notice it is making a clicking sound. I immediately shut it off and unplug it. I go to the other EP800 and it seemed to be fine. The hot sub amp was the replacement for the second EP800 after I received the replacement for my first EP800. So:
First replacement amp went in one sub which is fine.
Second replacement amp went in the other which is hot.
Weird
Put a call in to Axiom and left a message.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 08:49 AM

Hello Onn

When you say the back plate of your EP800 was scorching hot, was it too hot to maintain contact with your hand?

Are we talking fire hazard here?
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 09:17 AM

 Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Hello Onn

When you say the back plate of your EP800 was scorching hot, was it too hot to maintain contact with your hand?

Are we talking fire hazard here?


I could keep my hand on the back plate for a few seconds. No way of holding it there for any longer. It was hot enough to make the burning rubber smell in the living room. Wish I had the laser thermometer from work and could have checked the temp properly.
Mel
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 10:10 AM

Geesh, I hope they get to the bottom of this. Sorry to hear that Mel.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 01:21 PM

I have brought my laser thermometer home from work as I have been having hot water issues with the new house. I'll send it up to you; wait it is probably faster for you to just drop in to your work and pick yours up, never mind \:\)
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 01:31 PM

JC called me first thing this morning and said they were planning on shipping out my two new subs on Monday or Tuesday. Will find out more next week.
Mel
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 01:42 PM

To this day I am still amazed at Axiom's CS. Best I have ever come across \:\)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 02:38 PM

So for all of those who have the latest fixed amp/sub...any further issues?
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 08:13 PM

I would imagine all these replacement subs are costing Axiom quite a bit. I'm quite impressed at how on top of this they are.

I hope for everyones sake that this is finally sorted out.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 08:17 PM

My fingers are crossed. I do appreciate Axiom for using this less-than-ideal situation as a challenge to themselves to come through for their customers.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/20/10 10:36 PM

Just got a voicemail yesterday and they are shipping me a brand new ep800!

I am shocked at how far Axiom goes above and beyond, Andrew noticed on this thread that I was having popping sounds occasionally during "demanding" HT material and promised to send me a new amp, and now they spontaneously send me an entirely new sub!

You just gotta love the passion, commitment, and dedication.

It's funny though, I have this superstition, everything is so close to perfect I don't want to change anything and risk messing things up.

Guess I'm not a true tweaker :-)

SK
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:00 AM

It's funny you say that SK, because I am loving what I have right now. But, in fear of any potential future burn outs, I have no problem installing a new amp on sub #2, an accepting a totally new sub for sub #1! Tough part is carrying it downstairs, and carrying the old one up... They weigh a ton!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
It's funny you say that SK, because I am loving what I have right now. But, in fear of any potential future burn outs, I have no problem installing a new amp on sub #2, an accepting a totally new sub for sub #1! Tough part is carrying it downstairs, and carrying the old one up... They weigh a ton!


I agree with you Steve
I have no problems with replacing the amp for the sub and my system sounds perfectly fine. But, it is awesome that Axiom goes the extra mile to replace the subs we all have with new ones. \:\)
Mel
While your at it Steve, can you stop on by and help me move my old subs out?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:13 AM

I was about to ask you the same question!
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:24 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
I was about to ask you the same question!


Sure no problem!
Just stay put and I'll show up before you know it.

Mel
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:37 AM

I wonder if Axiom is concerned about driver damage with some of the amp problems?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:40 AM

Onn, it's only 3000 km, and it's the largest open border in the world! Get over here!

Fred, so far I have not noticed any driver damage. They sound great.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:44 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Onn, it's only 3000 km, and it's the largest open border in the world! Get over here!

Fred, so far I have not noticed any driver damage. They sound great.


It's not that open any more.
Last time I went to Seattle in Nov / 08 I had my car searched. \:o
Do you think if I left now that I would get there and back for work tomorrow morning? ;\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 10:51 AM

The last time I was in Canada, I was 19. We went for the beer, and even brought some back (allowed to carry in the US if under 21). They asked if wanted to declare anything at the border (this was after a night of watching nude Jello wrestling), and we declared 2 cases of Molson Brador (highest alcohol content, and we were college kids) in the trunk. Border patrolman started laughing and waved us through... Good times!
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 11:00 AM

 Quote:
Fred, so far I have not noticed any driver damage. They sound great.

Its just that Axiom dosn't seem to replace things they don't need to, but they are quite willing to go the extra mile when there is a possible issue.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just curious. I've always been fascinated by business process and what defines a well run company.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 11:06 AM

I want to hear more about the nude Jello wrestling.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 11:08 AM

Fred
You would think it would be more cost effective if they would just send us new amps and be done with it. Maybe they are trying to eliminate all the possible variables out of the equation like someone not hooking up the sub right. I know that to replace my subs would be a costly hit for them to make. Maybe someone from Axiom can enlighten us on how they decide on what to do in this kind of situation.

Mel
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 11:15 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I want to hear more about the nude Jello wrestling.


What happens in Canada, stays in Canada.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 11:35 AM

Have you been back to Canada, Steve? Ashley wants a rematch!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 03:44 PM

 Originally Posted By: onn
Maybe they are trying to eliminate all the possible variables out of the equation like someone not hooking up the sub right.


I'm thinking this is probably it.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 06:26 PM

Don't order jello in the snack shop.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 06:35 PM

Didn't need to...
Posted by: Glitchy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 06:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Don't order jello in the snack shop.


Unless it's jello twister with a taste .. Im just not in...
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/21/10 06:40 PM

Don't say it, Mr. gasm.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 04:39 AM

Peter informed me that my two new EP800s were shipped, so I look forward to receiving them... and I don't look forward to packing up the other two subs and two extra amps to return. I'll be very happy to have my system fully functioning again, though.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 06:53 AM

I just got my new replacement sub (for sub #1) and amp (for sub #2) the other day. Boxing them up and brigning them up and down the stairs is tough, so I'm hoping this is the last time \:\)

I did notice that on sub #2 (the one where I had to replace the amp), when I pulled the old amp out that smell was there again. On inspection of the amp (there is no boot anymore), one the the caps was leaking. It looks like one of the lighter blue caps (not the darker blue) was the culprit. The newest amp (picture attached) seems to have done away with these older capacitors. Also, the back plate now shows 1000W power draw.


Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 06:59 AM

This is a picture of the older amp with the leaky capacitor. After looking a little more, it looks like all caps have been replaced in the newer amp with a different manufacturer.


Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 07:00 AM

Thanks for the pic Steve

Mel
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 07:05 AM

No problem Mel. I will say that I put the new sub and new amp through the paces yesterday (about 5 hours total) and so far they sound great. No problems, and the amps did not get hot even when playing some music pretty loud (90 db) with deep bass.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 07:07 AM

Only 5 hours? Your slipping my friend. \:D
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 09:12 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
I put the new sub and new amp through the paces yesterday (about 5 hours total)


Hmmmm...I never heard a peep! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 09:44 AM

That's because you're sitting in a null-room.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 02:45 PM

That's interesting about there being no boot now. It's nice to see all of the internals, but I wonder if boots will show up again after Axiom's new molding machine gets going.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 04:16 PM

IMO, it's probably better without the boot for heat dissapation. The new amps also have airhole slots on the plate whereas the old ones did not (the amp chamber is now sealed internally with MDF). Another 5 hours so far today with no problems!
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 07:10 PM

Interesting info on the new subs. Those do seem like good ideas.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 07:12 PM

I do love looking at electronic components. That one looks like a capacitor dollhouse. \:\)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/27/10 08:18 PM

Those are really awesome looking.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/28/10 01:22 PM

When I first received the email on 03/19 the projected delivery info was not in the system, and I've been busy and just now had a chance to check tracking, to my surprise I discovered it had been delivered 3 days ago!

The package has been sitting across the street for the past 3 days (delivery 03/25/10 at 12:38 pm), the address does not have a For Sale sign but does have a Realtor padlock on the front door, so my guess is no one lives there right now.

The package appears to be in one piece, fortunately my wife made me buy a dolly a while back so I was able to retrieve it with no trouble.

Although I've been extremely pleased with the ep800 I'm tempted to try a 2 sub setup before I have to ship the old one back, since this will be my last chance to experiment with that option for the foreseeable future. With the current HT placement the room doesn't really lend itself to 2 subs so I suppose it won't be too much of a temptation or hardship if it turns out sounding great.

Where to find the time though, today was supposed to be doing taxes day, last year we didn't file until October . . .
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/28/10 01:46 PM

Wow, that's scary having the EP800 just sitting there for 3 days, but I'm glad you found it.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/28/10 05:23 PM

 Quote:
I'm tempted to try a 2 sub setup before I have to ship the old one back, since this will be my last chance to experiment with that option for the foreseeable future.

I would be more than tempted. Let us know how the duals sound.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/28/10 07:57 PM

I would most definitely run duals for a day or 2 just to see how it sounds.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/29/10 12:00 AM

Now that the issues for the EP800 have been ironed out, is there an actual design difference for the horizontal model?

Axiom mentions possible placement behind the couch...which way would it be facing?

Lastly, is there a FR graph for the EP800?
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/30/10 09:49 PM

OK so running the two subs has officially ruined me, long story short it is a huge improvement.

What I found surprising was that it significantly improves all of the material, not just material that emphasizes bass or LFEs. Three things specifically I notice: 1) everything sounds more realistic and distinct because it is anchored by a more accurate low end, 2) the surround effects are much more pronounced, believable, and vivid, and 3) the soundstage is more opened up, if that's the right term, i.e., a lot of sounds don't seem to be coming from specific speakers so much as originating from different locations within the room.

One reason I suspect that the directionality or localization of the sound, so to speak, is so much better is that with only one sub there is a slight or not so slight directionality to the low frequencies that is not supposed to be present and that directionality disrupts the effects of left/right, front/back, side/side so that you don't clearly perceive what the source material is trying to say about where in the room or on the screen the sound is supposed to be emanating from, all those implications become a bit muddy or fuzzy, and realism goes out the window.

This is what I was afraid of, because now I want a second sub, and can't afford one. Where there's a will there's a way, or will be one day I suppose, at least this way I'll know why I should bother to get a second sub if I ever happen to be flush again.

Has anyone tried mating the EP800 with something less spendy and achieving a reasonable blend? I must say though, the two whale subs sure do seem to go together.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/30/10 09:59 PM

Randy has/had and Ep600 with 2 Ep350s and he claims it works very well. Others have run different subs/makes with good results as well.

I tried my PB13 with my old low powered sub and it made no difference, the PB13 drowned it out and the old sub just couldn't add enough to the equation.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/30/10 10:11 PM

That's what I was wondering, because I recall Jason/Myrison had a humble sub that the ep800 just blew away. I tend to suspect if I go with another Axiom sub I would end up getting another ep800, which would cost "only" 30% more than adding two ep350s. If I could get something for like $800 that would fill out the low end I might not have to/want to wait so long, but to ensure the same result as what I'm hearing most likely I will end up having to wait.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/30/10 10:19 PM

You may want to try a EP500 with your 800. There would be a slight difference in sound but it may work to even things out for you. I haven't received my new replacement EP800's yet so I don't know for sure. I run my EP500 with my EP800's usually. Since one EP800 is out of commision right now I'm running a 500 / 800 currently. I have not done any critical listening due to time issues. So I'm no help for you right now.
Carry on
Mel
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/30/10 10:46 PM

Mel, load one of those 800s up for the roadtrip down as well ;\)

I think the 500 would be enough sub to add to the sensation and even out the sound as it reaches low enough and has good power. I was surprised when I heard icehawks 500. It has more power/feel/sonic presence than I thought it would have.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/31/10 07:23 AM

[quote=jakewash]Mel, load one of those 800s up for the roadtrip down as well ;\)

I would really like to accomidate you Jay but my car is in the auto body shop and there's no way the EP800 will fit in my rental car. Are you going to come up and help me load it in the rental if I find it will fit somehow? \:o
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/31/10 10:56 AM

If I come up there to help I will bring my truck to put it in \:\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/31/10 06:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: SatKartr
That's what I was wondering, because I recall Jason/Myrison had a humble sub that the ep800 just blew away. I tend to suspect if I go with another Axiom sub I would end up getting another ep800, which would cost "only" 30% more than adding two ep350s. If I could get something for like $800 that would fill out the low end I might not have to/want to wait so long, but to ensure the same result as what I'm hearing most likely I will end up having to wait.


SVS makes a sub that you can pick up for about $950:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_plus.cfm#extension

It's not as efficient, and does not go as low as the EP800, but it's a great sub that can get down to 16Hz comfortably. It's gotten good reviews too (I think a couple of members on the board have this sub).

If I were to buy a sub that was not an Axiom sub, I'd probably go with this:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls15.html

But, it's $1300.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 03/31/10 10:01 PM

Dr. Hsu's latest and greatest looks cool, and wireless too, a nice feature given that the placement of the second sub will be problematic because there are 3 doorways in between and a wood floor with no basement so running a cable to the desired location will be inconvenient.

But am I going to wind up wishing I'd just held out for a matching ep800? I suppose the good news what with income taxes coming up and refinancing our home next week, I won't have to decide for a while.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/02/10 11:11 PM

Okay, I have the worst luck in the world. I got my new EP800s today, and I was very, very happy. Then I opened the boxes up and found that they're both horizontal EP800s when I have verticals. The bass will sound the same, and I wasn't using the feet, anyway, but I probably will be using the feet when I move my system. I don't really have the space to lay them down, so the holes for the feet might bother me every time I saw them on the side.

I emailed Peter at Axiom since he's the last one to talk to me about my EP800s. I offered to keep these if they offer me a discount on two verticals that I would pay for through layaway. My dream system is four subwoofers, naturally, so we'll see how much they're willing to work with me. Ha ha. I simply want to feel like I'm getting something out of having to pack all of these subs and replacement amps back up. I always intended to have horizontal EP800s if I was ever crazy enough to go to four subs, since the front one would have to go under my screen and the rear sub would probably sit under a table at the back of the room. Wish me luck, guys.

In the meantime, I'll still have to hook these up and make sure they work. Right? I can't NOT do anything with them while I wait probably until next week to hear back from Peter.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/02/10 11:28 PM

Holy smokes! *smacks forehead*

Well, at least they are working subs, right? That sucks, CV.

No, don't blame you for hooking them up and using them for the time being.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/02/10 11:33 PM

I'm not sure they're working yet, since I haven't hooked them up. I'll probably hold off until tomorrow when my dad can help me move them around. I could do it myself, but it's not like I'm going to be blasting any movies this late, anyway. May as well wait and make it easier on myself.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 12:58 AM

Oh yeah, I forget those things weigh a ton!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 01:37 AM

Gadzoiks!


Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 01:43 AM

Ha ha. That pretty much sums it up.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 01:51 AM

Man, it just hurts to read that.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 07:25 AM

\:D
You guys crack me up.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 07:28 AM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
\:D
You guys crack me up.

That's what Humpty Dumpty said...
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 11:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: CV
My dream system is four subwoofers, naturally, so we'll see how much they're willing to work with me. Ha ha. I simply want to feel like I'm getting something out of having to pack all of these subs and replacement amps back up. I always intended to have horizontal EP800s if I was ever crazy enough to go to four subs, since the front one would have to go under my screen and the rear sub would probably sit under a table at the back of the room. Wish me luck, guys.


Holy smokes! I'm pushing it with a dedicated 20A circuit in my theater (in addition to the normal 15A shared) with my dual EP800s. How many circuits do you have in your listening room!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 11:54 AM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
How many circuits do you have in your listening room!


He has seven.

One for the bulk of his equipment, one for his TV, one for his Axiom amp, two for his subs and one each for the shark tank and the alligator pit.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 05:22 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Holy smokes! I'm pushing it with a dedicated 20A circuit in my theater (in addition to the normal 15A shared) with my dual EP800s. How many circuits do you have in your listening room!


Well, right now I have no dedicated circuits in my current room, but I'm going for at least five (one on each wall, presumably for each potential sub, and one for the A1400-8) in the room in the basement. I'm going to see what my dad will let me get away with, at least. I figured I'd be safe with at least one on each wall in case the layout ever shifts.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 08:06 PM

one 15 amp shared
one 20 amp dedicated
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 08:18 PM

one 15 amp scared.... by everything connected to it...
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 09:04 PM


One dedicated 20 amp.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 10:21 PM

Gator clips to the power line. We don't need no stinking curcuits...
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/03/10 11:22 PM

Well, I hooked up the EP800s and have been enjoying them. I don't have the AS-EQ1 in the chain right now. I'll have to try putting it back in when I have a normal computer monitor again and can see what I'm doing in the SubEQ software at the same time I'm sending out calibration signals to the preamp.

I'm definitely happy with the performance. Also, the backs of the amps aren't getting nearly as hot, which was already mentioned. Way to go, Axiom.

I'll have to get some friends over for a movie or some gaming.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/04/10 02:20 AM

Peter from Axiom emailed me to say that he would work on something and get back to me on Tuesday. Nice.
Posted by: grunt

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/04/10 03:46 AM


 Originally Posted By: CV

Well, right now I have no dedicated circuits in my current room, but I'm going for at least five (one on each wall, presumably for each potential sub, and one for the A1400-8) in the room in the basement. I'm going to see what my dad will let me get away with, at least. I figured I'd be safe with at least one on each wall in case the layout ever shifts.

Just make sure you don’t keep anything around the house that “the man” might be interested in. With the increased electricity use and heat output from your basement your place is getting raided Charles. ;\)
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/04/10 03:56 AM

Ha ha, I hadn't thought of that aspect.

I talked to my dad today and he said all of those dedicated circuits are an option, since there's plenty of room in the breaker panel. Separate breaker boxes for both the ground floor and the basement, so it should be easy when we redo the walls down there.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/05/10 04:20 AM

Oh, something I forgot to mention that was a little eerie.... When I was putting the new EP800s in place, I set the volume knobs where I thought they should be. When I took the readings with the AS-EQ1, the first sub was within 0.1 dB of reference, and the other was within 0.3 dB. I've never had to not adjust before. It was CRAZY.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/05/10 12:18 PM

Did you play the lottery that day, too?
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 02:04 PM

While I can't discuss the details of the transaction, Axiom did, in fact, trick me into buying two more EP800s. It'll be maybe half a year before I pay them off through layaway, but then I'll finally be in the quad-EP800 club that so many of you are already members of. Be prepared to welcome me.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 02:13 PM

I hope you were not planning to also put a bed in your place? Maybe a hammock hanging between 2 EP800s?
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 02:29 PM

Maybe I can sleep in a tent outside.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 02:30 PM

Sleeping with a tent...
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 06:07 PM

 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Sleeping with a tent...


Eric? That sounded like something Mark would say!
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 06:09 PM

Congrats CV! I would recommend one 20A dedicated circuit for each pair of EP800s. The plate now says 1000W, which makes more sense on an amp that delivers 800W.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 06:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Sleeping with a tent...


Eric? That sounded like something Mark would say!

Yeah, but he was busy and asked me to fill in for him.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/06/10 11:32 PM

\:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/07/10 04:51 AM

Wow, 4 EP800s, I have to make by your place sometime to experience it.
Posted by: onn

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 04/30/10 07:46 AM

Finally received my 2 new subs and did a fast initial set up. First impressions are really promising. I have also set up my 2 new QS8's as additional surrounds to see if they make any difference in addition to my M80 surrounds

Mel
Posted by: Nick B

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:10 PM

I've been thinking that the EP800 is one of the best subs around as far as depth of flat frequency response, impact and supposed musically at this price point. Even thinking that maybe a couple years down the road I'll get one or two myself. But, seeing as how there are 279 posts 28 pages deep about repair problems with the EP800, I'm thinking maybe I should look elsewhere. I know that Axiom has top notch customer service, but all of these people having problems is not something that I want to be a part of.


- Nick
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:12 PM

Oh, come on. Misery loves company. Seriously, though, this latest version of the amp has given me a lot more confidence. Only time will tell, but for now I'm going along with the idea that the issues are finally resolved.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:19 PM

The problems have been resolved.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:20 PM

Both of mine work great now. No problems at all.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
The problems have been resolved.


Was it a design issue or bad electronic parts they were receiving from a supplier?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
The problems have been resolved.


Which is why I have waited until now to order one, can't wait \:\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:32 PM

In my case (and I cannot speak for Axiom), it appears that the caps went bad. So, bad electronic parts for me.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:34 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
The problems have been resolved.


Was it a design issue or bad electronic parts they were receiving from a supplier?


Good question. I seem to recall at least some parts (capacitors?) and and entire amps being replaced, but don't know if they actually redesigned anything. Hopefully others will chime in.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:35 PM

SRoode confirmed my caps claim while I was typing my response. \:\)
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:43 PM

I don't have all the technical answers, just have been told that Andrew, the new engineer has pretty much isolated any previous issues and the new amp designs should be very reliable.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:46 PM

I don't think we really know, and its not the kind of thing you expect Axiom to talk about too much. Look at some of the crap that went on at other forums around the 'sound' of Axiom speakers.

On some forums stuff like this would be troll food.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 12:47 PM

It's nice to hear he has a handle on amp design. I wasn't aware his knowledge went that far. I knew he was a speaker designer is all.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 03:56 PM

SRoode, did you notice any other part changes besides the capacitors (different manufacturer?) in the new amp you have?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 05:18 PM

There were some differences, but I did not really take the time to check them out in detail. I have pictures of the new amp on page 23 of this thread.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 10:03 PM

Charles, since Mr. Welker's degree is in electrical engineering, it's not surprising to hear of his expertise in the area of amplification. Actually amplifier design is an area of greater academic emphasis than is speaker design and although he was previously with a company known primarily for speakers, I'd think that both his education and experience qualify him in the realm of amplifier design.
Posted by: CV

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 10:16 PM

See, I wasn't aware of his degree, either. I know nothing! That's really very cool, and I'm that much more excited about his future contributions to the company.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/01/10 10:20 PM

Yeah. Getting a B.Sc/BEng in electrical engineering from the University of Waterloo is not easy. It is an excellent school.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 01:43 AM

Getting a B.c./BEng from any accredited school is not easy...
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 08:47 AM

Waterloo is one of the toughest schools to get accepted to . The engineering department is also renowned as one of the best in Canada. McMaster University also has a great engineering department as well as a few others.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 09:19 PM

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a B.c./BEng (I assume in Canada) and a BSEE in the USA?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 09:53 PM

Yes, Waterloo is renowned for its excellence in many disciplines. In matters relating to audio technology Drs. Stanley Lipshitz and John Vanderkooy are noted for their research and debunking of some audio mythologies.
Posted by: fredk

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 10:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a B.c./BEng (I assume in Canada) and a BSEE in the USA?

It used to be about 30%, but now the're pretty much the same.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/02/10 11:00 PM

BEng is 4 year undergraduate program. A lot do not finish within the 4 years. The departments that I am aware of is Electrical, Mechanical, Materials and Engineering Physics. Depending on the school you can have the option to graduate with "honours" in which one of your courses in your final year will be to write a extensive undergraduate thesis research paper.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: EP800s Under Repair Again - 05/03/10 11:26 AM

 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Waterloo is one of the toughest schools to get accepted to . The engineering department is also renowned as one of the best in Canada. McMaster University also has a great engineering department as well as a few others.
I am aware of Waterloo's exclusivity, I was mostly refering to the fact that it is a very hard discipline to graduate with.