Hi,

Just setup my new avr and all I get on my sub is the red light, nothing, nada. Also tried a cd player direct to the sub, nothing just the red light. Checked the fuse and swapped it out, still nothing. Tried everthing I can think of, plus followed the axiom trouble shooting guide...

Any Ideas before I call Axiom? Oh, it's the new style ep500..

Dana

Hmmmm.... I'd give them a call before they close tonight and see what they say. I didn't see anything for red light on the troubleshooting page.

Just called, Brent is sending a new amp.

Dana

Dana, did you try the magical unplug for 15 minutes procedure?

John,

Yes sure did. Thanks anyway though.

Dana

When was the last time it worked?

Randy,

I sold my pioneer about 4 days ago, worked fine then. Damnest thing I've ever seen. Everytime I get a new toy, something breaks. Call it bad luck, I don't know. Right now I'm just pissed to be honest. Gets old ya know...

Dana

That is crazy. Axiom will make it right, but shouldn't happen.

Dana, look at this situation very carefully.

You're having a conversation with Randy, and it's a known fact that his system has (had?) Poltergeists.

Now, you write:
"worked fine then. Damnest thing I've ever seen. Everytime I get a new toy, something breaks. Call it bad luck, I don't know. "

YOU may not know.

But _I_ do.

It's transference, my friend. I think I saw it on an episode of Buffy, so it must be true,

The PorterPlex Poltergeist has officially moved to YOUR system.

Be afraid.






Be very afraid.

Until you talk to Axiom, the following are known situations where the light can stay red:
1. Having the xover and other settings set to "remote" or other management settings
2. Having a 12-V trigger connected, but the trigger off

Now that's funny! Thanks Mark I feel better actually, no wait...I forgot I'm still pissed!

It's possible for devices with switch mode power supplies (which is just about everything these days) to cause huge voltage spikes between other devices when they are connected together. Enough to blow out an input or output circuit. When connecting receivers to amps the power should always be disconnected, not just in standby.

Yup I now turn everything OFF to ensure no odd power surges. A pain when swapping out speakers and you are trying to do it quickly.

Ironically enough, it's probably safer to connect speakers while the receiver is in standby than the line-level interconnects.

Oops.

Not saying that it'll happen every time, or with every piece of gear. But there can be potential between the grounds of equipment using switch-mode PS. If you connect the grounds (which in the case of RCA cables is also the signal path) at just the wrong time (depending on the phase of the power from the wall) there can be quite a bit of voltage differential between the two components. It will equalize quickly through the input/output circuit.

Another reason to like XLR connections: the chassis ground connects first before the sensitive signal connections are made.

Dana I am sorry the force is weak in you and you have moved to the dark side. Mark is right, I have had my share of mysterious subwoofer issues in the past.

Nah,

I'm not worried, I don't believe in that crap. There's no way...
Oh NO! My TV just went out! Damn! There goes my PS3! OH GOD! NOOOOO....not my Wife's big rubber ***K!

Curse you Mark! You too Randy!

I'm just glad that Mark's curse has left Iowa, lol.

Meeee Too!! It's Vu Ja DE!

TMI, Dana, TMI.

If she can't get it to work right, give it to the dog as a chew toy just before hosting a Holiday party with your friends, neighbors and employers.

That might cure the curse. It's worth a try.

Oh, and post video at YouTube to increase your chances of successful exorcism.

I don't know Dana very well. If Dana is female, then it's most definitely not enough information!

Mark, your hilarious!

See? Cam's not trying to get rid of me!

Today, anyway.

He just wants your humor, now!

Uh Oh, if I'm a female then my wife will surely think I'm a lesbian...

Hey! I'm a lesbian too . Although, I did find Mark eerily attractive .

He has been on the ball lately, Chris .

I don't understand what the fuss is over some lady's big rubber duck.

That's how I read it the first time too.

What did you guys think Mark was referring to?

Mark,

If she does get it to work properly and at the proper RPM's, should I still post a video?

Dana

No. We wanna see the video of TRYING to get it to work. One never gets to see porn out-takes.

I asked Mark, get your own big rubber "duck"

Don't ask for the video .

Too late. Already slithered into the hands of Julian Assange. Watched it this morning (@3:00)Really, a quart of extra virgin olive oil? I mean, I see the allusion, but the cheap stuff woulda worked fine.

Olive oil? Looks like bodily fluids to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7t651gjjrA

You are digusting, therefore, I hope you stick around here for a long time. We were just about to place an ad on Monster.com, but we don't need to now. Awesome!

Just got my new replacement EP500 amp. The new amp has cooling vents on the back. Like this

My old V2 amp does not, is this the only difference? I'm assuming this is the newer V3 amp?

Dana

That appears to be the newer amp they started sending out mid year, newly designed, and does not have the flaws of some of the previous models. That is why Axiom hired Andrew.

Where's the RCA input/output? Do they use an RCA to XLR adapter instead?

Just wondering because I <???may???> purchase a second EP500 and my new receiver only has RCA outs for the two subwoofer outputs.

The single ended (RCA) connection is in the middle of the XLR connector. It's actually a combo jack featuring XLR and 1/4" phone. You can use any mono RCA female to 1/4" phone male adapter. Axiom includes one with the sub.

Hi,

With the subwoofer comes an adaptor which allows you to use a subwoofer cable with standard RCA connectors. Here is a link to a picture illustrating it. - http://axiomaudio.com/global/rca.html

The link is also accessible from every Axiom subwoofer model main product page by simply clicking on the RCA picture located inside the "Question We Get All The Time" box.

Sweet!, Thanks Randy..
Once again Axiom Customer Service Dominates.

Dana

Wow, 7 days. That's quick! Props to axiom customer service.

Yes, it was quick.

I don't know how the rest of you all feel, but it's a good feeling to have a product that "if" anything goes wrong within 5 years, you know it will be taken care of. Definitely gives me a good sense of investment if you know what I mean.

Plus it's sure nice to get the latest version of a replacement amp for my EP500.

My Harmony One remote took a dive awhile back (under warranty) and Logitech sent me a replacement. It took 4 emails, 2 phone calls of being on hold and 2 1/2 weeks later I get a "refurbished" replacement, which now has a audible "rattle" whenever you move it. Go figure...

Dana

Dana,

I agree - Axiom customer service is second to none. I had to replace my EP500 amp (volume dial disconnected) and when I mentioned that my driver had a slight rattle (which wasn't a loose wire - I checked) they sent me a new driver as well.

BTW - the rattle you hear in the Harmony One remote is the tilt sensor. The rattle is expected. My Harmony 880 does the same.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan,

I never notice that in my first remote, but makes sense.

Dana

My 880 quit taking a charge - Harmony sent me a new one after about 3 e-mails. I thought the service was reasonable in that they had to feel reasonably sure that I was not scamming them. Axiom, on the other hand is dealing with customers who have come directly to them to purchase their product. It puts Axiom in a better position of trust and they should be reasonably sure they are not being scammed. Eagle Optics is a similar model - they are not selling their own product but most of their business is internet where customers come directly to them to purchase. Their customer service is similar to Axiom - rare in today's world.

I had really good luck with replacing a defective Harmony remote. One phone call is all it took.

That 880 charging cradle certainly isn't going to make the top ten list of engineering marvels of our time, I've replace our cradle twice and it's due for another replacement once again. If we don't place the remote on the cradle with care and finesse it will not make contact and not charge.

Logitech has always been great with their service in the past, I hope they follow through again.


On another note...

I'm always reading about the EP500s and 800s needing some kind of help here but not hearing much on the 600, is there not that many 600 owners or did Axiom fix the 600's bug a long time ago? I've had my 600 for over 5 years and fortunately haven't had any issues with it at all.

You have the one and only 600 Rick.

Good, Axiom should have plenty of parts and pieces to fix it if it ever does head south.

What was the deal with Dennis's 600 issues? Seems like he was having problems while trying to connect them via the XLR jacks or something similar?

I don't recall but I think it was with the gain control.

You are not alone Rick, mojo has a 600 as well.

Yea Jason I know there are several of us, I was just curious if anybody other than Dennis had any issues with them. We don't hear of many here on the board and then I believe Dennis (Tharkun) may have took delivery of the first two 600s?

Dennis didn't buy them that early in the game did he? I thought the 600 had been around a little prior to his purchase.

The only complaint mojo ever made was of a rattle/vibration of the cabinet that his beaver took care of.

Maybe so Jason, it's been so long I can't remember.

How's Mojo doing nowadays anyway?

He is very busy. We have been trying to set a time up to get together but so far our schedules are not working out.

I had a 600 before my 800s. The amp had to be replaced once. It hasn't been used for a while, though, even though my dad has it. I should set it up for him sometime.

A 600 not in use? What a shame!

you should add it to the ep800's....

It would have to wear a grill to avoid embarrassment. The 800s would mock its port and single driver.

My EP600 is still performing flawlessly. (Knock on wood.)

Hi folks, haven't posted here in a long time but logged on to check about a similar issue I see being discussed here so rather than start a new thread I thought I'd ask for advice here.

My EP600 is once again acting up. It was new 4/06 and has already had the amp replaced once about 2 years ago. Now it is acting up again. 2 nights ago there was a lot of popping in the speaker and then the dreaded very loud 60 cycle hum. I immediately un-plugged and after plugging it back in it went away. The sub is on it's own dedicated circuit with a Belkin AV Pure power conditioner / protector. Never been a ground loop problem before and have no reason to believe it is this time. I don't abuse the sub at all and frankly to have it start to act up again is a little disconcerting. I called and they were fine to talk to and suggested I remove the ground screw. Nothing changed. Still humming. Put it on a different circuit....same thing. Whether direct or through power protection. And it's always had a slight burnt electrical smell to it. Especially when warm. But so did the original.

They also looked up what was wrong with the last amp return and the notes said it was fine. Nothing wrong. Which I find very hard to believe believe cause I was able to take either an XLR or RCA from my pre amp, plug them into the EP600 and nada. But then take those same cables and plug them into either a 20 year old M&K or my EP350 and they worked fine. So if the amp wasn't dead then it must have had a voodoo curse on it or something.

Anyway, what to do? It seems to be working OK now again, albeit with a very slight hum that's only audible if it's dead silent and you're close up. But I'm already gun shy on this thing. I've got less than 6 months till the warranty is up. So do I bug them for a new amp? Again? Wait til it's completely dead?

It seems that I'm not alone with these issues. What have others done? And did the new design or version fix these problems? What exactly is dying in these things?

Thanks

Your amp is dying, kaput! The popping sounds followed by constant buzzing is indicative of that. I would recommend you not use that subwoofer and unplug it directly from the electrical outlet until you get a replacement amp. It is also not normal to have "burning smells" coming from electrical components.

Thanks for the quick reply. And yes I would agree that the burning smell, or more like a hot electrical smell for lack of a better term, is not normal. But both amps have done it. Quite strange.

Thing that gets me is when he told me the other night that there was nothing wrong with my first amp?! Maybe that's just the standard response, or maybe they never even checked it. Who knows. I just hate to be a pain in the butt to them and want to be sure. If there's really nothing wrong with it then I would feel quite foolish and hate to put the folks at Axiom through the process of returning and sending another one. But I'm out of ideas and don't want it to completely die 3 days out of warranty.

Seems I'm not alone though. Been reading about a few failures here with similar problems / issues / diagnosis. Just read about the "helicopter effect" and that hit home. Sounds about right.

But why would these problems be intermittent? Seems to me when an electrical component dies it should just be dead. Though my knowledge of such things isn't precise.

Have others had multiple failures? What is it in these amps that is giving up the ghost? And have these failures been intermittent over a few weeks or months til completely dead?

All other problems aside, if there is a burning smell from the amp unplug the thing till things get resolved. I can't see that being normal in any ones book.

It certainly sounds like a common case of what you see/hear/smell when a subwoofer amplifier fails or is beginning to fail. The popping followed by constant buzzing is a common sign of this. Usually caused by some sort of component failure. With component failures it can also be popping sounds, following a buzz and losing all power to the sub. Could even be a issue with the DSP in the amp which is causing some of the intermittent problems. In either case you need a new amplifier. Also the intermittent helicopter effect you describe is also an amplifier issue. You should not be experiencing this problem either.

Just from what you have said I would persue another amp.

Same here.

OK, thanks guys. I will take it up with them and see how it goes. It's just a royal pain and sure seems excessive. 2 amps in under 5 years? I'm happy with their service so far and happy with the rest of speakers...(I have two rooms with all Axioms in 5.1 M-80's VP-150 Q-8's EP-600 great room and M-22's VP-100 Q-4's EP350 bedroom).....but this sub has me thinking of changing to something else. Love it when it works but having to worry about it....again....sucks.

Do you guys leave them plugged in all the time and turned on? I have always done this and never thought twice about it until now. I bought my old M&K 350 almost 20 years ago. It's been moved through 3 houses and across the country and always plugged in and still works flawlessly. This EP-600 has been in the same spot since day one and seems to be biting the dust again. Roughly 2 years to each amp. Bummer.

Just seems really abnormal. Wish I had a definitive cause.

I leave my sub plugged in 24/7, it's not an Axiom sub.

Robert, Axiom hired Andrew Welker(former Mirage/Energy head engineer) earlier this past year, and improving the sub amps was one of his main priorities. I too, would contact an Axiom representative and ask for the updated one.

I hooked a Kill-A-Watt up to my system and checked the standby power. I figured 28 Watts was a little high, but for a TV, receiver, PS3, and DVD player, plus two subs it didn't seem that bad.

But when I turned off the hard power switches to the subs the standby power was 0.8 Watts. Yeah, I turn my subs off now.

Not Axiom subs, but I understand this is a common thing.

Thank you Adrian, good info.

I went through 2 500 amps in the space of a year and am on my 3rd. I think they were having issues and there were personnel changes - it seems to have smoothed out now. Definately pursue the issue with them. I believe Axiom will make it right.

Wow....that does seem like a big standby draw. 27 watts just sitting there? Curious....Wish I had a way to test this.

Oh..and I leave mine plugged in and on 24/7. I believe that I remember reading somewhere in Axiom's literature that the amps are designed that way - they go into sleep mode in absence of a signal then wake up when a signal is received.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travelpower/7657/

Great, very cool, thanks Argon. Just the kind of info I was looking for! No I don't feel so alone.

BTW...did you have any hot electrical smell coming off of yours? And is it working fine now?

You might be able to get a kill-a-watt from your local utilities company as a lender for free; that's what I did anyway.

Was the 28W with the subs in standby mode?

Yep, the subs with their orange lights on instead of the green. With the greens glowing, yet no sound it was another 20 Watts on top of that.

They go into sleep/standby mode, yes, but they still drain power.

I've never read anything stating that there are detrimental effects to turning the sub on and off when needed. My sub goes for long lengths of time without being used, so I'm going to pick up a remote on/off switch for it, rather than wasting power.

It's funny, people see my compact florescent lights, turning off my subs, and even my computer these days. They think I'm environmentally conscientious. Not really, I just don't like large electric bill.

Well I just got off the phone and exchanged emails with JC. Very nice to deal with. New amp is on the way with one caveat. Apparently when I bought my EP600 it only had a 3 year warranty not 5 as now. However they are exchanging the amp with the newest version for $175 plus $30 shipping. Which I think is fair. So for $205 I have a new amp on the way.

I sure hope it fixes things cause I just plugged the thing back in and it's rumbling and crackling like crazy! I'm always second guessing things like maybe it could be the voice coil on the speaker too but it's doing the same thing that it did last time and the last revision and new amp had it working fine for the last 2 years or so. Lets hope i get more than 2 more years out of this next amp.

Anyway, kudos again to their customer service. They seem to be willing to do what ever it takes to make it right.

I'll let you know.

Does that new amp come with the 5 year warranty since you are paying for it?

Good question to ask!

Just an update,

Having listened to the newer upgraded version of my EP500 replacement amp for a few days now, I'm very pleased.

Could be placebo effect, but the replacement amp definitely seems to be controlling the woofer better. Low end seems tighter, smoother and more solid. I kept thinking it sounded different when listening to music, so I ran MultiXT32 again. Excellent so far...

I also notice that the green light stays on all the time, how do I know if, when it goes into standby mode? I thought the light changes when in standby mode?

Dana

Dana, it may not be a placebo effect at all, considering the DSP programming might have been further tweaked from your original amp....

Sure seems like it Mark!

Man, I keep thinking about the EP800 with these improved amps... "must...resist...can't...stop..."


Dana

The crackling and rumbling sounds is another disturbing development. Does this happen as soon as you plug it back into the electrical outlet and the subwoofer is in standby and receiving no signal or did this occur when you are listening to music or a movie? And is it intermittent or constant?

If you are also worried about a blown driver inspect the woofer for any noticeable physical flaws. Another test is to carefully and gently press the subwoofer woofer cone and listen for any scraping or rattling sounds. Those sounds are usually indicative of a damaged voice coil.

Good luck with all this. Let us know how everything works out.

I was concerned on my replacements that the sound would be different or not as good as the original. Impossible to know as you can not do a double blind - but in the end, I am extremely pleased. Every time I sit back and just do something like watch a commercial on TV - let alone a movie or listening to music, I just think....aahhhh

No, I asked about this and only 1 year on the new one.

Dr. House, I don't think there's a voice coil issue. It's just my nature to second guess everything when it comes to stuff like this. There is no damage to the woofer visible and I never drive it to ear splitting levels. Loud some times yes. But never over kill.

It hums and thumps and scratches like crazy now when I plug it in. Doesn't matter whether or not it has a signal going to it. I just plugged it in with no cable attached and it was so bad I immediately unplugged it. It was a constant sound.

I sure hope this new amp lasts for a while. This is rather ridiculous.

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I thought I'd post my question here as a continuation from my post above regarding a remote switch for my EP500.

I've found an appliance module and aRF transceiver (I already have a remote). I'm pretty sure I'm right in my assumption, but wouldn't this setup cause even more havoc with the RF signal of my Harmony 1000? The odd time a button will just get stuck and the remote repeatedly send the same signal (it's turned the volume on my receiver to max), and my understanding is that it could be caused from other signals in the house.

If this is going to be a problem, does anyone know what I could use as a remote on/off switch?

I could possibly get down to turn the sub on, but getting up is another story.

Thanks for the help, guys.

By the looks of your caregivers I wouldn't have thought that to be a problem.

Could you have an electrician wire up an IR light switch (Lutron) that controls the outlet the sub is plugged into. The 1000 does IR as well does it not?

Yes it does do IR, Jay; the light switch in the room is controlled via my remote and I completely forgot. I'll look for an outlet that will work like that.


Thanks

So I'm not the only one that lives through this hell?! sorry to hear about it (but glad it's not just me?)... I'm batting about .500 when it comes to ordering new equipment and having it work properly out the box (that may be a great batting average in baseball, but not when it comes to new gear!!). It's frustrating lemme tell ya! lol! but not enough that I'll stop trying! sucker for punishment i guess! haha!

Yes Majik,

With our luck, its a good thing we order from Axiom! I don't worry about my "curse" anymore. As I know Axioms customer Service will perform an Exorcism and banish all evil Demons!

Dana

OK folks, in the continuing saga of the 600 ...here goes.

Got my replacement amp today but it seems to be a refurbished unit. I'm not positive but it looks that way. Gone are the trim control and there are no fuses. It also has a couple of minor scrapes, which aren't a big deal, where the screws mount to the cabinet. This is kind of disappointing as I was under the impression that I was to be receiving a new amp. Especially since the 1st and 2nd ones were not covered by the 5 year warranty....only 3 years....and I had to pay for this replacement.

The piece of paper came with the unit also states "This replacement subwoofer has all the current upgrades we have made since we launched this product." It also goes onto describe the replacement steps, in rather broken English, and makes reference to blue and white wires. There are none. Just the standard red and black banana type screw ons. There's also a "QC" sticker covering up the normal "SA" spot. The old unit is silver and this "new" one is gold.

Then it goes on to describe removing the woofer itself and running the blue and white wires to it. There is no need for this.

Again, I'm no expert but it sure looks like a refurbished unit especially given that the sheet they send with it makes reference to attached wires and colors that don't exist. Here's a picture side by side. Old amp on the left...."new" replacement on right.



Seeing that this is the 3rd amp in this thing it's kind of a bummer. Thought I was getting the latest. If some one could confirm this I'd appreciate it. I hope it's newer any way.

That amp is the latest design. It may be that the documentation was updated sometime after you received your original subwoofer and that it hasn't been updated to reflect the most recent changes. That would explain the references to wire colors on both the amp and woofer being incorrect.

At this point, wouldn't you rather have an amp with the most recent upgrades included (perhaps done on an older amp, hence the refurb "feel" your're referring to) than a "new" one that's been in a box and might not have the most recent changes?

No. Especially if that old one had been used and abused for years then refurbed. Given my track record with these things I would rather have new version 2.3 or what ever than old version 2.4. And I would think they should all have the latest upgrades.

And yes the documentation does seem to be upgraded to reflect something completely different. Something newer. So how do I know then that this "new" amp that I received has all the latest upgrades when it and the documentation don't match?

It's just that I was never told I would be purchasing a refubed unit. Guess I should have asked but it didn't cross my mind. But if it works for more than 2 years I'll be happy.

However here's my next dilemma. I've been letting it thaw out before installing as it's been on a Fedex truck in Montana for a while. Anyway the red and black positive and negative posts are reversed on this new one. Did they just get put on wrong or did they actually reverse the leads. Not sure it makes a huge difference but i don't want to blow it up right off the get go.

Why don't you call Axiom and ask these questions? Asking us is going to just result in a bunch of guessing.

Well I might but honestly my trust in them at this point isn't exactly high up there in the stellar range. I was hoping that some one here that had already been through this could confirm. I know I'm not the only person out here to have replaced an amp. Some even a few times. If they got the same thing then I'd feel more comfortable. But yes, I'll call.

I replaced an amp in my EP350, but it was during a transition period, so I knew I was getting an early version.

Well I swear I'm cursed.

OK, so I call them up and speak to Brent. Figured I'd wait to talk to them before I hooked up anything. Nice enough to deal with but I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling that I really had a new, and not a refurbed amp. Even though he said so. Actually he told me there were 2 new versions. There were a couple of answers that sort of made me go ...huh...what? OK. However I decided to go with it.

So....first things first. Wire it. The positive red banana plug breaks right off where the hole is drilled through it for bare wire. ARGH! OK....there's enough room still to tighten down the connection. But it won't tighten real good. It just sort of spins on the inside of the black casing. So does the negative black wire. I assure you that I did NOT force these in any way.

Alright then....lets mount it and give it a shot. Plug it in and give it something that should rock my world. Ready set EHHHH. NADA. WTF?! Did I screw something up? Check everything. Again. Ehhhh. Turned all the way up on music that should have my house shaking and with my ear right to it there is JUST barely an audible sound. So....second, third, and fourth check all my connections. All good to go. Bring in my EP350 and my old M&K....hook them up to the same XLR and BAM! Lots of sound. All is good. Plug in the EP600 and nothing. Freaking thing sucks wind.

So....call Brent back up, and again, pleasant to deal with but he needs to get back to me in the morning. Every one is gone for the day. So we'll see what happens.

Sorry to vent here guys but this is just beyond ridiculous. I'm 99.9% positive that there isn't anything wrong with the speaker / woofer / driver itself. Axiom seems to agree. So this will be amp #4.

What else to do?

Any one have any experience with SVS? I'd really like to have a working system again.

That's frustrating for sure.

Don't the new amps come with vents in them?

I leave my EP600 on all the time and have been fortunate to have no issues with it since I got it in 2006. Perhaps it is time to see if Axiom will replace the entire subwoofer.

The amp layouts above look nothing like the amp that is on the website currently. If I were to guess the one you have is an older version of the amps that had the trim control feature removed and replaced with that of a subsonic filter switch. A current EP600 amp is pictured below.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/gallery_display2.html?image=amp.jpg&title=EP600%20-%20Amp

I wonder if the newest amp chassis is physically compatible with the older EP600 cabinet.

If that is the case that would be a really dumb thing to change.

House, thanks for posting that link. I'm absolutely convinced that they sent me a refurbished unit now. Some of the things Brent said to me make sense now. At first he thought they they needed to send me a 1/4 RCA adapter because there wasn't one on the new unit. I had no idea what he was talking about and told him there was and it didn't matter cause I was using XLR. He had sort of a quick "ah humina humina" moment and realized that I really didn't have a new amp I'm sure. Same thing with the colored wiring. He was telling about the new amp, assuring me that they had sent me a new one, then realized they hadn't and changed stride mid stream. Then quickly recovered and changed to "Oh....there's 2 different new versions". Yeah OK right.

So this brings forth all sorts of questions. If they did away with separate RCA connections and integrated them with the XLR doesn't this defeat the purpose of the XLR in the first place? Especially if an adapter is now used? How does one keep the signals separate? How does it work?

And even more importantly now that I've seen this I've lost a great deal of respect for these folks. I absolutely feel like I've been lied to and treated like hopefully I'd be just another dumb consumer that would accept a BS answer and just go away. They're trying to cover their asses / losses and send out older refurbed stuff under the guise of new. NOT cool at all.

These amp issues are obviously known to them. If they want to retain their so called great customer service then own up to it and send out a new amp in the first place. Especially when I paid for it and was told that was what I was getting!

I didn't follow too closely, but I think there were some changes made at least in the EP500 that the newest amps don't fit in the old cabinet.

As for the RCA in XLR. The center connect is electrically separate from the balanced XLR pins. The change was made because one of the most common repairs was for people who broke their RCA jacks off because of how the cable went straight into the amp. Now with the right-angle adapter, the coax cable will point down, and there's nothing to snap off the amp.

Relax. Shit happens, they will get you a working amp.

Yup, I'm pretty sure they will. However it still doesn't retract from the frustration level of having been through this now 4 times!

As I said, they are very nice to deal with on the phone. And they always seem willing to help. I do appreciate that. But I believe this could all have been solved the 3rd time by sending me a new amp. Now we're onto # 4 and more waiting for shipping / turn around etc etc. I think it's rather normal to be just a bit frustrated by now.

I just spoke with Brent again. Seems to be a good guy. Hopefully I'll get this resolved soon.

Hope your issue is resolved soon. I know it is frustrating....

As someone who does customer service (to some degree or other), I do not envy Brent. While I don't know the specifics of this situation at all, from personal experience I know the frustration of promising something to a customer/client/user, and not being in the direct loop to deliver it to them. Then one's wonderful coworkers drop the ball. Like I said, I have no indication whether this happened here or not.

I'd be frustrated also, seems natural to me.

For me, the biggest issue is that if you're paying for an amp, you should expect it to be a new one.

Or it should be made clear, you pay this much for a refurb, or this much for a new one. Or... you can only use a refurb, because we've changed the cabinet.

Forgot that u paid for the replacement too.... Again, I'm sure it will all work out

Kinda reminds me of the experience I'm currently going through with my optical doc. We had an agreement on how much my exam and glasses would cost, which I paid. But, during the exam, he said that the pressure in my eyes seems a bit high and would like to do some more tests. He asked me if I'd be willing to pay an extra $35 for the eye drops to have the tests done? I agreed. The tests were the ones where they check for blind spots in each eye. 3 months later, I get a bill for $300 more, because the insurance company refused to pay for these extra tests.

So, this just leaves me angry with the doctor. He should of been truthful with me up front about the extra cost. I don't feel I should have to pay for it, but if he turns it into the collectors, it'll leave another bad mark on my already not-so-good credit rating.

Edit: Does the word shyster come to mind?

Yeah, totally agree. As far as I knew I was buying a new amp and they were giving me a good price on it since my original warranty was only 3 years, not 5, and I had already been through a replacement amp.

Even given this if the refurbed unit would just have worked I would have lived with it and moved on. Wouldn't have been exactly happy about it but would have had a working system any way.

Gotta tell ya, once you get used to having a sub in your system...I've had one for decades....to be with out is like needing a heroin fix! Geesh....don't even want to listen to anything without it. I'm jonesin' here!

BTW, he had me remove the woofer and check the connections. All is fine there. So unless there is something internally wrong in the voice coil....I doubt it...then it's definitely an amp issue.

Well I'd like to report that the 4th time is the charm. But unfortunately it is not.

Got the 4th amp today wired it up and thought this had to be the one. After all how many amps can possibly be bad? The first two, yup, no doubt. They were dead. The 3rd one that they sent, the refurb, had absolutely no output. Kaput out of the box.

So now the 4th. First thing I notice when I take it out is that it's fractions lighter. Like 1/3rd the weight of the previous versions. That and the black boot isn't attached at all. It just sort of hangs there by the blue and white wires. No matter, lets get it wired. But alas the pre-wired cable that they have already attached to the binding posts is too short. OK....so I physically turn the amp 180 degrees upside down to mount it in the cabinet. It's the only way that it will fit and allow the wires to get to the woofer.

At this point I don't care if the amp mounts upside down. I just want it to work. So plug it in and turn it on! Eh....is it on? Well....sort of. Cranked all the way up it's nominal. No where near what the original or second amps were volume wise.

So again I break out the EP350 and set it next to the 600. At 2/3 volume it blows away the 600 at full. Same thing with my M&K. They rock my world. Night and day difference. The 600 is just sort of anemic. Yes working but at a fraction of it's original self.

Talked to them again. Re-checked the wiring 5 times. All is good. The speaker itself seems to be fine. There is no sign of damage. No crackling, no static, no sign of anything wrong with it. But no answers as of yet.

Could they have sent an EP500 amp instead of the 600? Just from the pictures on the sight they look identical. How would I tell? Might be the reason that the wires were too short? Maybe account for the lack of output? I don't know. Just grasping at straws now really.

I assure you that I'm not a complete idiot. And I would really like nothing more than to have a working sub again. I'm also not trying to trash talk these folks. They've been quite pleasant to deal with. But I do think that people need to be made aware of these issues. I can't be alone in this. Just a little venting cause the down time is driving me nuts. It's now been many months in total without a working sub. Rather discouraging. I'm just to the point of so much frustration with it that I'm about ready to say screw it and give up.

So does any one have any ideas? Am I cursed or what? Maybe I built my house on top of an old burial ground? Dunno...

Sorry to hear about your ongoing problem, Robert, must be very frustrating. In order to eliminate one possible problem, have you tried the 9V battery test on the driver?

I am thinking you and Majik are cursed. As we all know Axiom will make it right but the frustration factor trying to get there is huge. Keep with it you will be rewarded eventually.

I am going through something similar with repairs on my treadmill.

Thanks guys. I will wait to talk to them tomorrow before trying the 9 volt thing though. Don't want to screw anything up warranty wise. The speaker does move, and there is output. It's just seriously reduced. Volume all the way up on music that should have it thumping it just sort of works. Used to slam you in the face and chest if you wanted it to....now it's just kinda there with a volume that I never would have thought of before.

Is it possible that the new amp design just doesn't have the gusto any more? The weight variation between the two was quite noticeable and significant. I'll bet the old one was around 25 - 30 lbs and this new one is 10 lbs. I'm no expert but it seems to me that heavier is better when it comes to amps. Though Brent explained it off as the new "digital" design I don't understand how that would cause such a weight change. Are new "digital" amps really that much better or lighter? It still needs a coil right?

Sorry....just confused and frustrated.

Sounds to me like you need to ship the whole thing back to them. Let them put a working amp in and test it to make sure it's up to par then ship it back to you, all at their cost. 4 times with no working amp is just ridiculous. And on top of it, you even paid for another new amp.

I know where pro amps are concerned, the newer digital amps many companies are coming out with are about 1/3 to 1/4 the weight. This is understandable for live bands transporting all their heavy gear around.

Months? That would be insanely frustrating. Yeah, at this point, I think Axiom should make it a whole new unit just to make sure the problem is dealt with. Of course, this could also be why I don't run a business.

I think at this stage Axiom should send a new driver and amp combo after testing the pair to ensure everything works. This would solve the issue rather quickly with out the added cost of the enclosure and big shipping charges.

Digital amps ARE much lighter, and the newer amps were designed with a different attenuator. They're still capable of the same output, but you have to turn the volume knob higher to get it.

Reason being, is that those volume knobs that achieve full output with a 1/4 turn make the amp SEEM really powerful, but you don't get any range of adjustment.

Still, I agree that Axiom needs to make this right.

I agree with the fact that they should send a whole new EP600 after being carefully checked.

Wow....I read all the way through.....does this story have an end to it? I had issues with my 500 that have now been resolved...which is what drew me in in the first place.

Wow - this thread is still going? If I had gone thru the trials and tribulations of the OP, it woulda been enough to put me off HT all together!!

Have to say I love my Axiom speakers, but I think SVS and HSU have them beat in the subwoofer dept....

Hope this gets resolved. Good luck.

OK....just to give some closure to this saga.... amp number 5 is in place and working for several days now. Sort of. It's acceptable anyway at this point. Wanted to wait a few days before I posted just to make sure. It too arrived...again...with too short of cables to physically attach to the woofer without turning it upside down in the cabinet to mount. So I took the longest cables from both old and new and then had enough room to mount it properly.

So just a quick recap for those that might not have read this whole thing. 1st 2 amps....lasted roughly 2 years each then dead. Next 2 replacement amps DOA out of the box. Amp #5 working so far.

Honestly though, these new designs are just not as good as the old beefy heavy "non" digital amps. They do not have nearly as much punch or overall depth / warmth. I would say they are 75-80% of the old amps.

Again.....From a customer service stand point these folks have been very good to deal with. Never a problem there. They truly do want this stuff to work. And that is greatly appreciated. But the weeks on end between replacements gets real old real quick. So with 5 amps now there's been a considerable amount of down time.

However for the sake of honest customer feedback.....IMO the quality of their SUBs are just not up to par with some of the others out there in the same or even lower price point. Especially with this new amp design. Maybe I'm sort of old school but when it comes to amps, in my head any way, bigger, heavier, solid designs would seem to be better. There's a lot of audio gurus out there that don't necessarily think that small light digital circuitry is the way to go. When you pick up a 600 watt amp one would expect it to have some heft. But now this thing just sort of feels cheesy light and cheap. And had I never been exposed to the original then maybe I would think differently. But the new one just doesn't drive this unit the same way the old amp did.

Maybe from a tech standpoint there's a good design reason for it. Maybe from a $$ / manufacturing standpoint there's also good reason. (I'd gladly pay a bit more for better quality if that's what it took though.) But from a listening standpoint I think it's a step backwards. If and when this amp bites it again.....I won't replace it. Time to move on to an SVS or HSU.

The reason class AB amps have to be big and heavy, because one that draws 600 Watts from the wall will be dissipating over 300 of it as heat. Where as a 600 Watt class D, can turn 90% of that draw into sound, and only have a fraction of the heat to deal with.

I'm just speaking in general terms, having never seen nor heard any version of Axiom's subs.

I am pretty sure that I received one of the digitals. It was much lighter than the original that crapped out. I was initially concerned that it was not as good but realized I was forced into an subjective area not being able to A/B the two. I have since moved on and am happy with the amp and that it is still operational.