Out of phase

Posted by: brwsaw

Out of phase - 01/28/13 12:56 AM

Re ran YPAO 3 times with the same out of phase message on the 4 channels wired to my ADA1000.
The wiring is correct. Any chance RCA cables for video are different( I used left over cables from the satelite/PVR packaging)? I can't see it being the output on the reciever or the input on the amp.
I could swap the cables on one speaker and re run YPAO. Is there a risk of damaging speakers when used out of phase?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 06:29 AM

No, there is no risk.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 08:16 AM

It is possible in certain situations to get false positives during auto calibration checks. Audyssey states that it is simply a 'warning' to double check you wiring. If you are satisfied everything is correct, then just hit [Skip] and proceed. It will have no effect on the rest of the calibration. I suspect it will not effect the results of YPAO either.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 08:22 AM

I've had similar problems with MCACC and Audyssey. One time it was a wiring issue. The rest of the time it wasn't.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 10:50 AM

Thanks.
The sound isn't quite right but I moved/swapped every speaker when I set it up and think this might be why.
I've never had it display more than one channel out of phase before. Its actually pretty normal.
I think I'll swap the cables on the surrounds, listen to them for a bit and re run YPAO. It should sound better or worse and I'll know, right?
I've already had one scare with my M80's (havent been able to run them for a month) so I'll be a bit more carefull this time around.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Re ran YPAO 3 times with the same out of phase message on the 4 channels wired to my ADA1000.
The wiring is correct. Any chance RCA cables for video are different( I used left over cables from the satelite/PVR packaging)? I can't see it being the output on the reciever or the input on the amp.
I could swap the cables on one speaker and re run YPAO. Is there a risk of damaging speakers when used out of phase?


If all four channels are out of phase they are in effect in phase relative to each other but may be reversed in polarity compared to any other channels. How many other channels are you using and how are they wired?
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 01/28/13 10:10 PM

These 4 channels (LF/RF/RS/LS) are now run from the ADA1000 and the 5 remaining channels are still run by an RX-A1010.
All wired positive(cables marked) to red.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 01/31/13 10:42 PM

I finally gave up and listened to the voices in my head.
They sound quite a bit better now.
I don't know where/how/why but...
Officially I swapped + & - on the M80's and I'm at peace again.
I'll swap the cables on my rear towers and deal with the why later.
Posted by: alan

Re: Out of phase - 02/01/13 12:52 PM

Hi,

Keep in mind that YPAO, Audyssey and other similar auto-setup programs can be very error-prone with phase calculations, especially with bipole, dipole or multi-directional surrounds like Axiom's QS8s and QS4s.

My best advice is to carefully wire your mains and surrounds noting the polarity of each cable and connection and not rely on the auto-setup schemes when it comes to phase determination.

Regards,
Alan
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 02/01/13 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
Hi,

Keep in mind that YPAO, Audyssey and other similar auto-setup programs can be very error-prone with phase calculations, especially with bipole, dipole or multi-directional surrounds like Axiom's QS8s and QS4s.

My best advice is to carefully wire your mains and surrounds noting the polarity of each cable and connection and not rely on the auto-setup schemes when it comes to phase determination.

Regards,
Alan



Thanks. I can't explain it, somethings wrong somewhere.
The wirings pretty straight forward. While its certainly not the first time I've swapped cables and or speakers it is the first time I've used the preouts on this reciever and or a seperate amp (other than for a passive sub).
Its internal and it'll bug me for a while.
I've moved my QS4's to the front presence locations in prepperation for QS8's in May. The towers I placed as my surrounds have been there before and are pleasing, I found myself being especially fond of the sound coming off the sides of them last time they were in this position. A little more placment tweaking and a wire swap and I'll try Avatar for the first time at home.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Out of phase - 02/02/13 02:02 PM

Never had a single problem with phase using Audyssey, jm2C
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 02/02/13 02:22 PM

If all four channels are out of phase they are in effect in phase relative to each other but may be reversed in polarity compared to any other channels. How many other channels are you using and how are they wired?[/quote]


I've swapped the four channels at the speaker(s) and now have correct sound and YPAO now confirms they're in phase.
I knew something was wrong, but I've never heard speakers that were wire wired incorrectly(not my own anyway.
Believe it or not, even out of phase they sounded better than the speakers they replaced.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Out of phase - 02/02/13 02:35 PM

So YPAQ was accurate and not faulty, good to know it was not error prone.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Out of phase - 02/02/13 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: PorterPlex
So YPAQ was accurate and not faulty, good to know it was not error prone.


It is error prone but never 4 at once. That and I couldn't get it to sound right.
During the last YPAO, the center was out. I hadn't changed the wiring or the speaker when installing the amp.
Not really a concern with one channel, its done it countless times before but never on multiple attempts or with more than one channel.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Out of phase - 02/03/13 05:27 PM

Maybe YPAQ, never used that technology, always Denon's with Audyssey.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Out of phase - 02/03/13 05:54 PM

I just did some wire adjustments on my system to accommodate a new PVR and discovered my network adapter in the 3808 was locked up. I had to do hard reset on the system to get everything working again. This means I lost all my settings etc. as I hadn't done a back up of my system settings, so I needed to run through Audyssey once again. I discovered I had managed to reverse the LF speaker connection, Audyssey revealed it to me while doing the setup, it is kind of nice it looks for these things.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Out of phase - 02/03/13 05:54 PM

You can do a backup of your system config?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Out of phase - 02/03/13 05:55 PM

On the 3808 with "command3808"

I believe it is also possible with the standard web interface as well.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Out of phase - 02/03/13 10:58 PM

I got that backwards, you can save your config via the built in web interface and having just checked with Command 3808 it does not provide config saving.