I am considering purchasing the M60's, QS8's or QS4's, center 150 or 100 and a sub. I would like to order the speaker wire at the same time. Which gauge do I need and should I order the axiom speaker wire or monster speaker wire? Do I need separate speaker wire for a sub?
I use this for the sub:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=181-644
I have monster navajo white (got it cheap) on the fronts and center (16ga at 10' each) I have RCA brand 14ga on the surrounds - 35' runs.
Most any cable is good - look around at PartsExpress or go to Home Depot.
12 or 14 guage wire will be sufficient.
Check this link as well:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm
hope this helps
^billy
Don't buy monster cable. Although they make a decent product, it's not worth the extra money they charge to cover their uge advertising budget.
The gauge of wire you need is dependent upon both the length of the wire, and the Ohm-rating of the speaker. How far away from your amp/receiver are your speakers going to be?
This page has a handy chart that tells you the minimum gauge required to carry the full signal over a given distance for a given load (ohm-rating). For example, since your M60s are 8-ohm speakers, you can safely use 18-gauge wire up to 30 feet. Most people like to err on the side of caution and step up to 16 or 14-guage though.
I'd recommend buying regular "zip wire" in at MOST 14-guage for your entire setup. (12-gauge is pretty thick and can be hard to work with.) Home Depot carries this wire in bulk and will cut to length. Alternatively, you can order a 100' spool of 14-gauge Sound Kind wire for about $35
from here.
As far as your subwoofer is concerned, you won't need speaker wire for it. To connect it to your receiver, you will need a coaxial cable with RCA connectors.
Something like this will be perfect, and at a great price!
I agree with PMB about Monster, except for one of their products, which I think does something good for the sound - Monster super flat mini speaker wire. Just sounds great to me.
you couldn't resist, could ya?
I tried, really, but then parabulia struck, and I said it!
With how much you like to stir s***, ever considered a career as a honeydipper - the guys who empty outhouses?
Bren R.
Ah, my point exactly, Bren! You appear most comfortable marching in step with those who agree with you. If someone presents a contrary opinion, you recommend cleaning outhouses for a living. To answer your question, no, I have never considered that line of work. How's it working out for you?
In reply to:
You appear most comfortable marching in step with those who agree with you.
That definately gave me a big smile - the idea of me being a conformist in any sense of the word is... moderately amusing. I have Pastor Martin Niemoeller's "They first came for the communists" posted in my office - hardly the mark of a man marching in lock-step. I post here because I agree with popular opinion here, not the other way around. What I
don't do is intentionally take a diameterically opposed position in order to draw attention to myself. I'll also neither blindly follow popular opinion, nor intentionally buck it (say by extolling unbelievable virtues in, perhaps, tube amplification) in order to seem exotic and part of an elite (l33t?) group.
I have the distinct feeling some day you'll argue
black is white and be killed at a zebra crossing (to borrow from the late Douglas Adams).
Bren R.
chris-
pmbuko gives good advice, and links.
i have always been told that 14-16 gauge is good for lengths under 40 ft.. and 12 gauge for anything 40ft and over. i have nothing to back that up, other than 19 years of living with a retired Air Force radio ops guy..(my dad)
trust in pmbukos links, they have good info..
bigjohn
Well, you may mock tube amps, but I voted with my wallet. My favorite system is driven by a 5 wpc tube amp. Some folks who've heard it have trusted their ears and have also bought a tube amp. If you don't like them, that's fine, but why do you feel the need to mock people who disagree with you? Do you think people hold opinions contrary to your own only to vex you or call attention to themselves? That's interesting. So, you post here not because you've found a bunch of folk who agree with you, but rather, "because I agree with popular opinion here?" So, you find comfort in holding an opinion consistent with the "popular opinion," on this site? No wonder you react so poorly to opinions which differ from what you perceive as the "popular opinion" held by many folk on this site.
I enjoy music, that's why I bought a tube amp, not to be different or "exotic." If you don't like them, that's your right, but I'll trust my ears, if it's OK with you.
I got turned on to these:
Knukonceptz
Karma 12AWG Speaker Kable
Klear Kable Blue 12 Gauge Speaker Wire
http://knukonceptz.com/
In reply to:
If you don't like them, that's fine, but why do you feel the need to mock people who disagree with you?
Long story short - Both Alan and I have explained to you about tube distortion, you chose not to accept it. Somehow you've disputed what even tube lovers admit. You chose to attack Alan over this. The warm sound you hear from your tube amp is even-order distortion - that is an undisputable fact.
In reply to:
Do you think people hold opinions contrary to your own only to vex you or call attention to themselves?
No, I believe that people who argue a point they can't possibly prove are either attention seekers or zealots.
In reply to:
So, you find comfort in holding an opinion consistent with the "popular opinion," on this site?
I don't find comfort at all - I respect the opinions of most of the users here and most are consistant with mine, I listen to other points of view when well articulated. As for finding comfort in them? Check my post again, I made no such mention of comfort. Anyone who's ridden a 650cc single cylinder on the highway for hours on end probably isn't too big on the comforts of life.
In reply to:
No wonder you react so poorly to opinions which differ from what you perceive as the "popular opinion" held by many folk on this site.
I react and respond to messages that mislead - whether I react poorly is debatable, people come here to learn, they've already seen Noel Lee's advertisements for his cables, they play right into the society of fear that somehow your investment in loudspeakers won't sound quite as good without them... I and others here make sure that these people get to know the other side, the side universally accepted by nearly everyone that doesn't make money on cable sales or hasn't plunked down hard earned money on said cables and would be made to look the fool if the Emperor really was naked.
Enjoy your music... through your tube amp with its inherent distortion - it's great sounding distortion, that's why guitarists use tube overdrives and tube heads.
Enjoy your cables... I'm sure they look great, fit well under your carpet, whatever reason you own them.
But I'll continue to keep people from being mislead by the boutique wire companies and the snake oil salesmen.
Bren R.
In reply to:
but why do you feel the need to mock people who disagree with you?
"Hi kettle, this is pot. You're black."
Bren, I never attacked Alan. I just suggested he listen to the Ah! before he put it down.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you're a bit off track when you describe tube amps as suffering from "even ordered distortion." Tubes enjoy even ordered harmonics. If you think nature prefers odd ordered harmonics over even, well, that's just odd.
I post my opinions based on my experience. I'm not looking to mislead anyone, or to lead them either. However, unlike you, I do not claim to know it all, but I do trust my ears.
You have an excellent memory.
"Not to put too fine a point on the matter Alan, but are you sure you know what you're talking about? "
This to someone who has been working in the field of audio for many, many years.
"But hey, you guys are the experts. My ears must not be sensitive enough to hear the hum or the tubes degrading and silly me, what I thought sounded terrific was really just "a rich wash of harmonic distortion" and noise.
Must be the Axioms which make that poor thing sound as good as it do"
Looks like an attack to me. But hey, I'm clearly deaf and stupid (and a know it all!), so what do I know?
Enjoy using that last line in your reply to me.
To drag this back on topic, have a look at this
article. Interesting reading. I doubt that it sounds any better than 12 gauge, but it is pretty cool. Here's a
link where you can buy the stuff.
KC wrote:
In reply to:
"Not to put too fine a point on the matter Alan, but are you sure you know what you're talking about? "
This to someone who has been working in the field of audio for many, many years.
"But hey, you guys are the experts. My ears must not be sensitive enough to hear the hum or the tubes degrading and silly me, what I thought sounded terrific was really just "a rich wash of harmonic distortion" and noise.
Must be the Axioms which make that poor thing sound as good as it do"
Looks like an attack to me. But hey, I'm clearly deaf and stupid (and a know it all!), so what do I know?
Enjoy using that last line in your reply to me.
Yes, you're quite right! Saying that tube amps hum and generate a "rich wash of harmonic distortion" is a pretty harsh and inaccurate characterization of modern tube amps and high end CD players with tube output sections. Passing such a harsh judgment on the AH! CDP without ever listening to one was also pretty presumptious. I thought I dealt with that unfair "attack" on tube components with substantial restraint though with a bit of irony.
Oh, you think my response was an attack?
Please, KC, you don't really think that my suggestion that Alan should maybe listen to the component before making such negative comments about it is an "attack," do you? Just sounds reasonable and fair to me.
Getting the thread back on line...I have a question...
The article that Peter linked to includes a chart that talks about a 50 foot run for 16 gauge speakers wire. Does this mean that the wire run should only be 25 feet out to a speaker, and than 25 feet back to equal 50 feet? Or, can the run be 50 feet out and 50 feet back?
Also, does anyone have an opinion about "flat" cable that can be run under carpets opposed to regualr round cable?
That would, I believe be 50 ft out and 50 ft back.
That would, I believe, be 50 ft out and 50 ft back.
In reply to:
"Hi kettle, this is pot. You're black.
That's amazing you said that Adam.
Take a look at this incredibly
similar reply i posted way back last October.
Coincidence?
Nah, i don't think so.
2x6 can save the little innocent orphan Annie routine for someone who cares.
I'm not going to take sides but I can say with confidence that *all* of you are fanning the flames.
just let it go. if someone says something you don't like, ignore it and don't respond. this is a great forum, let's keep it that way.
DITTO riffman..
its one thing for you guys to beat the dead horse in one thread, but for ya'll to spread it out to several threads is getting ridiculious..
i mean, really.. ya'll obviously disagree, and there seems to be no changing your minds.. some of the posts have valid points to defend your particular stance, but most just nit-pick and ramble on..
there seems to be some sort of jockying for intellictual supremecy when dealing with these various subjects.. i think we are all pretty smart here(except ray
), so lets just let it rest a little.
but who am i to tell grown men how to act.
bigjohn
Intellectual supremacy? It may be something as simple as someone pissed in someone else's cornflakes. I haven't read all of the threads yet tonight, so I'm a little unclear about the issue, but if it is something as important as tube amps good or bad, I'm willing to suspend my work on solving world hunger and curing cancer to research the issue. Tube amp performance is, ya know, always a good reason to go to war. I think that's why we originally invaded Granada. (gentle sarcasm mode off)
C'mon guys - let's burn some bandwidth on important stuff like tuning your subwoofer by stuffing ther ports with cats.
In reply to:
let's burn some bandwidth on important stuff like tuning your subwoofer by stuffing ther ports with cats.
Watch what you say. "stuffing ther ports" is something quite offensive in Vogon. Such a seemingly innocent comment has the power to spark interplanetary warfare.
/lame attempt at geek humor.
Hi Sutter cane
I was just browsing and noticed your post about the knukonczept (polish phonetic) speaker cables you're using. I make the occasional comment about speaker wire and interconnects, but not often for obvious reasons. Nevertheless, I also noticed that you have a pair of M50s, and I'd like to make a recommendation for speaker wires which I think are really heads and shoulders above anything in their price range - Mapleshade Clearview Golden Helix (or for a few extra dollars, Double Golden Helix Plus) speaker wires.
They have a 30 day money back policy but return shipping is only a few kopeks. I think they would be an extraordinary matching with M50s. (I had a pair of M50s but sold them before I got my Clearview speaker wires)but now use a pair of M50 like Michaura M66s (also 2x6.5" drivers and the 3/4" titanium driver out of the old M2/Merak lines) in an extremely rigid (and darn good looking) hex shaped speaker cabinet. I use these M50 like overachievers with a pair of the Mapleshade speaker wires. The results are really stunning.
Now, this is not a joke, nor an invitation for a flame war. Some of my friends with their very expensive Dynaudio gear look at me funny when I tell them that Axioms are 90% as good at 10-15% the price. (They look at me even funnier when they get to hear some Axiom speakers) I expect to get similar funny looks here, but the impulse is the same - share something really good with folk who are interested in great music reproduction even more challenging when that's your goal but you insist on a reasonable price.
Here's a challenge to whomever out there considers himself (herself) the most committed member of the "cables make no difference" school of audio theory, if you are not hearing impaired, get a set of Mapleshade Clearview Golden Helix speaker wires, report back within the 30 day return window. Tell us whether they didn't improve the sound of your system.
Here's a thought - let's say that the most committed to the cables-are-fables school of audio theory tries these speaker wires and consistently hears - experiences - superior music quality from his system - will he ascribe that to the 'placebo' effect?
Can the placebo effect work when someone has the strongest predisposition and belief that the variable under consideration will have no observable effect?
I don't know the people at Mapleshade, have no financial interest in it, but feel that Mapleshade is to cabling what Axiom is to speakers.
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/speakercable.php
Let us know.
SC, I don't know why of all those who replied here you were chosen to be the lucky one to be advised of the wonders of these miracle cables, but it's necessary to point out that this is just one of a collection of bizarre audio hoaxes found
here . Wading through the exaggerations and outright lies found there, it appears that if this speaker wire is as thin as they imply, then it may actually be the rare one that "sounds different" and may slightly degrade the sound because of a violation of basic audio engineering principles.
Don't scoff, I believe this is where tinfoil got his hat.
Well, JohnK, that's progress, you'll admit that these cables will sound different, although you figure for the worse. OK
Try them JohnK, tell us whether they degrade or improve the audio performance of your system. I'll pay for the return postage on your cables if you agree to give them an honest listen.
BTW, what's your system?
While I may not agree with you on the cables part 2x6spds, one thing is undeniable... Mapleshade sure knows how to master their records!
In reply to:
Well, JohnK, that's progress, you'll admit that these cables will sound different, although you figure for the worse.
The fight is never that ALL cables sound the same, it's that similar cables made of similar materials will sound that same... ie: NO one here is claiming 32ga wire will sound the same as 16 or 14. Wire of similar ga. will sound the same (ie: 12ga. silver vs 12ga. solid copper vs 12ga. stranded 99.999999 O2 free copper) saying ANY wire will sound like any other wire I would say is an incorrect statement... although someone here about a year ago used a coathanger for a SPDIF (coaxial) connection centre pin and reported no lost fidelity over a manufactured cable.
Bren R.
Just a thought, but I like this place because of the no-nonsense "scientific" approach.
When I go elsewhere and read about speaker, component, and cable break-in, I feel like an alien. I get a faint ringing in my ears and my body stretches to 10 feet tall. My extremities tingle, time slows down and I am left numb and depressed.
That's why I pretty much stay here at the Axiom forum.
It's OK Big Will. That's a typical response to approaching the event horizon of an average supermassive singularity.
Speaking of "event horizon", did you see the movie by the same name? I don't know why, but that movie scared the sh*t out of me. I had turn it off (hiding face in shame).
BigWill I in no way mean to put you down (The Ring freaked my $41+ out!), but I recall watching that movie and being really disapponted in Laurence and Sam for making such a POS when I know they are both great actors!
ps the ring really did scare the bejesus out of me.
jr
I just thought it was disgusting. And really not very good. The way it was hyped looked a lot better than the movie itself.
i had never heard of it until i rented it = maybe that helped. most horror movies w/ supernatural bad guys or human bad guys don't scare me, but aliens...
Oh, I agree with you there (about the aliens), but I was just disappointed by the movie. And I thought that some of it was unnecessarily gory.
Aliens aren't so bad if you can tolerate the anal probes.
Back to the idea of this thread. Check out this website concerning, what size wire you need, and what difference wire actually makes.
(this site is the opinion of one guy, but he was some how involved with McIntosh)
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Hmmm. Where does one contact an alien. Not for me, you understand - Ajax wanted to know.
.
Chess has their number, but I don't think he'll share it with you.