I posted this in another forum and got 0 replies, so I thought I would give it a shot here.
I am looking at purchasing a Harman Kardon 7300 or the 630 receiver.
My question is if anyone knows if the video up-conversion option is worth the extra cost of the 7300? Is the up-conversion just another notch on the belt or something actually worth having with a HDTV?
I am also looking at purchasing the Mit 52725 HDTV, which has technology that helps optimize the video signal (AMPV2), but does not up-convert the image to my knowledge.
Any help in this matter would be appreciated, thanks
Del D
I can't comment on the H/K or even the Mitsubishi monitor as I'm not familiar with them specifically.... so basically, I can only speak in generalities.
My Denon 3805 "upconverts", for example, all the Y/C input connections (often called "S" connections) to the component output connections. It does NOT upsample the resolution of the signal, however.
It simply allows someone who might, for example, have four video sources that output an "S" signal and two that output a component signal to all connect from the receiver to the TV with a single connection. If it did not work this way, and you used your receiver to switch sources, you would also have to switch your TV. As an example, if you had a DVD player that outpts component and want to switch to a TiVo box that had an "S" output, you would have to swith both the receiver AND the TV to change sources. In my Denon, it's not a method of enhancing quality, just a convenience. One that I think is valuable, though!
Again, I can't vouch for the way the H/K works, but I'd say if it ONLY works the same way as my Denon, it's worth a couple of hundred bucks to some people who switch sources pretty often. If you're like me and aren't switching sources all the time, it may be less of a big deal but still convenient.
Thanks for the quick reply Mark,
I guess I am going to have to do some more research in the video side of the components. Since I am buying everything new and not bring over any of my older components to this system I didn’t think that there would be connection issues. (In fact I hadn’t thought about how everything connects at all, LOL)
Del D
DelD -- I have teh Novermber issue of Sound and Vision where they reveiwed the 7300 and if I can find it I will see what they say about teh video upconversion.
Alright, here is what they said about the upconversion: "Faroudja DCDi video processing with 480p upconversion and enhancements calibrated by input." also "Composite/S-Video inputs upconverted to component-video."
Looks like it does "improve" video if your TV handles 480p. I suppose the best course of action would be to get both and see what you think, if possible.
The only cons listed for this unit were "Complex remote control" and "Auidible cooling fan" The reveiwer's "Bottom Line" is "Putting my relatively inconsequential gripes aside, the Harman Kardon AVR 7300 is one helluva digital surround receiver. If you want tremendous setup flexibility, top-drawr performance, truly superb surround options, and unusually customizable video outputs, it's one you really should check out."
Also they have performance specs: "Output at clipping (1kHz into 8 ohms)
1 channel driven -- 202 W 23.1 dBW
5 channels driven -- 145 W 21.6 dBW
7 channels driven -- 139W 921.4 dBW
anyways, if you want more info from the review just ask, or pick it up yourself -- it's only $4.50US
Thanks for the info, I went to the store and found the Dec edition of Sound and Vision, which also had a review on the Denon 3508. Since I like the Denon 2200 DVD player, I am reviewing the 3508 in more detail.
Since I need a receiver to review the Axiom speakers I ordered, I will be pulling the trigger on one of these receivers soon. (Think I might just flip a coin. LOL)
Check out NeverHappy's review of the HK and Denon receivers on the Home Theater threads. I'm pretty convinced that HK is the way to go. The upconversion is worth a couple hundred bucks - I had to get a Harmony remote to make my wife happy to deal with the issue - we had too many video inputs of different types (2 component, 1 S-video, 1 composite) and it made it difficult to sort out.
I got the model number wrong, its the 3805, same one Mark mentioned above. This also up-converts the video like the HK, but doesnt use the same chip. The Denon is also $500 - $600 cheaper than the HK.
Del, I think that you're referring to the excellent test results on the 2805. Either that or the identical but slightly lower cost 985 would be a very good buy.
No, I think I got he model number right this time, LOL…. It’s the 3805. Here is what is post on Denon site……3 Assignable Component Video inputs (100MHz Bandwidth), with On-Screen Display • Video Conversion of Composite to S-Video and/or to Component, with on-screen display .
To tell the truth I am not sure I understand enough about the feature to “know” if one receiver is better than the other. I do know that having the on-screen display on the TV would be a big plus. Just no idea if the HK is worth the extra $$ over the Denon.
I am fairly certain I will go with one of these receivers and probably cant go wrong with either one of them. I personally like the look of the HK over the Denon, but from discussions here and at the local HT shops I believe that the Denon is more user friendly. I did notice that the HK weighs about 20 pounds more than the Denon, does this have anything to do with the type or quality of the transformer in the HK? Or am I way off base here?
In reply to:
My question is if anyone knows if the video up-conversion option is worth the extra cost of the 7300?
If you need it, yes it's worth it. The way they have done it is better then just about anybody else out there at the moment..................but I would pay more attention to sound, user settings etc before I worried to much about it.
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If you need it, yes it's worth it.
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Well, that’s one of my problems, LOL. I am not sure if I "need" it or not. Like I mentioned before, having the on-screen display is a big plus. (Mainly since the text on the receiver is to small to read when sitting 12 feet away or I am getting to old…wait, forget the old part, cant be that.)
I went to 3 different HT stores tonight just to talk about this subject, (Tweeter, Fry’s and CC.) None of which gave me the same answer to my questions. I knew more about the receivers in questions than most anyone I talked to, except for the gentlemen at Tweeter, who knew a lot about Denon, but nada about HK (they don’t sell HK).
I probably need to research more about the Mit 52725. According to the guys at Tweeter the DLP light engine on the Mit upgrades the inc video image to fit the screen resolution of the TV. No idea if its as good or better than the HK, or even the same thing.
No, Del, you referred to the December issue of S&V, which tests the 2805(985), not the 3805.
Ooops, yes you are correct. I have read to many reviews tonight.. I got confused on where I read the review. The review did come from Sound and Vision, but it is in the July issue, which I read on the net. Sorry for the confusion.
Hello DelD,
Re your question on the weight of the H/K; yes, it usually does indicate a more robust power-supply section and greater power output capability. Generally, the H/K receivers are very conservatively rated and produce more power output than claimed. The 7300 is one of the most powerful receivers available, and even lesser H/Ks will drive lower impedances like the 4-ohm Axiom M80s (many other brands will overheat or go into current limiting when connected to 4-ohm loads). Denon, by the way, is pretty good about its power output ratings. Usually, the Denons deliver about 15% less output than claimed, especially with all channels driven. And Denon units will also drive lower impedances.
As to the Faroudja DcDi scaler/line doubler built into the 4300, Yves Faroudja is a brilliant French/American video engineer who developed the best outboard line doublers and "scalers" available (some are still $12,000 or more). All HDTV fixed-pixel displays (LCD, DLP, plasma, LCoS,) must "scale" or convert any incoming video signal of whatever quality to the display's native resolution (the feature in the upcoming November Axiom AudioFile newsletter is on this subject). How well an HD set's internal scaler does this conversion varies quite a bit from one brand to another. The one in my Samsung DLP is excellent with some inputs, not so great with others.
Faroudja's DcDi is considered among the best, with the fewest video artifacts or glitches. If you got the H/K, you'd be able to compare the effectiveness of its internal Faroudja converter to the one in your Mitsubishi set.
Regards,
Del, if you go with the 3805 and you have any problems getting the On Screen Display actually on the TV screen, be sure to connect it to the TV using an S-Video cable. Just a little something I found out after a couple of frustrating hours setting up my 3803 initially. BTW, the file I mentioned in responding to your MX-700 question on the other thread also contains an OSD command.
Alan--
When you say you can compare the 7300's scaling vs your own HD TV, I thought that some of the TVs will still force it to go through their own electronics, and effectively reprocess the signal. So depending on your TV, it may or may not make a difference.
Or am I not understanding something?
Thanks,
Rich
I have the same question, the Mit 52725 comes AMVP2, which stands for...Advanced Multimedia Video Processor 2: Mitsubishi exclusive group of circuits used to optimize video signals for final display on the TV screen.
Now I have know idea which is better or if the AMVP2 can be turned off...although there has got to be some type of ability for the TV to recognize when the AMVP is not needed (i.e. when watching a DVD or a program broadcast in HDTV).
Rich and DelD,
I didn't intend to mislead you. What I meant was that with the up-conversion of the H/K Faroudja, you could, for example, run a lower-grade composite video source through the H/K and look at the results (through a component-video connection from the H/K to your HD set) or you could bypass the receiver entirely and connect directly to the composite video input of the HD set and view the results.
Now, I may have to do more research here, because it is my understanding that if the H/K or outboard tuner/converter outputs a signal in the native format of your HD set, the set's internal line doubler etc, does no further conversion. For example, if my Samsung's native resolution is 1280 x 720p (that is the TI chip that it uses), then if the HD cable box is set to output 720p, the cable box will convert everything to that native format and the Samsung will do no further conversion.
There are special proprietary circuits that are defeatable on some sets (the Samsung has something called DNle, which adds edge definition, gooses contrast, etc.); sometimes they make the image look worse, other times they improve it.
Using a DVI connector from a cable box or DVD player will avoid an additional analog/digital conversion, which is why the DVI or HDMI image shows improvement.
I'm still sorting through various connection options with my HD DLP set and checking image quality, so stay tuned. . .
Regards,