Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal

Posted by: twoears

Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 04:14 PM

Ladies and Gents (though the latter seem to be numerous here),
I am considering buying M50s with a VP100, QS4/8 and a EP175/350.
I would very much appreciate if any of you, generous souls, would give me a chance to listen to these or similar Axiom speakers in the Montreal area.

Thanks!
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 04:25 PM

Welcome Two,

Have you checked page one of the audition thread at the top of this section. Normally, you just send PM (personal message) if you see someone on the list in your area. Otherwise, I'm sure someone will be along soon. For your sub, it is no question, get the 350 over the 175 hands down. Also, you may decide to step up to m60's. How big is your room you will be using?

Randy
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 04:40 PM

Hello twoears, thank you for referring to us as "gents" and welcome. If you check the thread under "Hearing Things" called "Auditioning Axioms in your Area", you may find someone who can give you an audition or as SirQ points out, someone from Mount Royal will likely be along and hopefully give you an audition. What kind of budget are you looking at? I agree with SirQ(Randy) on the 350 sub and a possible step up to the M60s(my preference would also be the QS8s as surrounds). Budget and room size?
Posted by: Family Man

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 05:11 PM

Hello twoears.

why don't you come on down. we had Luc and Natalie over last week from this forum, and that gave them an idea. you are more than well come to send me a private message (PM). I will send you the contact info.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 05:23 PM

By similar I meant M22 and M60.

BTW, the contenders for the front and center are Monitor Audio RS6 and RSLCR, in case anyone has a comment on those.

Et pour les francophones, mesdames et messieurs, je suis bilingue. A vous le choix de la langue.

Merci!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 05:38 PM

You are looking at the same speakers I did when I was auditioning different speakers. The MAs are a very detailed, clean sounding speaker like the Axioms albeit at a generally higher price of admission esp on the centre and surrounds. They are real veneer which is nice to help justify the pricetag, so if you order Axioms with the optional real wwod finish, the prices are probably quite similar. If you like one of these brands, you'll like the other I'm sure.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 06:05 PM

Wonderful, I am delighted of the promptness of your replies.
The web page was still displaying only my initial post when I replied to myself and bang, a bunch of nice answers show up already. Super.

Sorry sirquack, I misinterpreted Brent's instruction, therefore my mistake.

My listening/HT area is about 11x14 in the corner of a 15x20 room. TV is on the 14' wall. Front speakers, 9-10' apart, will be have their back close to the wall. Couch faces TV at 10' distance and has 4' of empty corridor behind it. Surrounds will be mounted 1' behind couch attached to wooden columns (part of house architecture) so height is as I wish.

I listen to jazz + classical mostly, and movies, all at moderate volume. In an apartment, I also have to go easy on the LFE, out of regard for neighbors.

Budget in 2000-3000 range. I try no to spend beyond my needs.

I found listening to MA RS6 very pleasant. Main drawback as Adrian says is that the matching center is expensive. If I believe what I read about the importance of timbre matching the 3 front speakers, I would have to buy the RSLCR to go with the RS6. It is little pricey. For the surrounds I would get Axioms anyway.

Choosing the sub is tricky. Lots of posts going in all directions. I was intrigued by those who say that if you have a decent sub you do not need big stereo speakers and the M22 would do very well. Sounds reasonable but I like the floorstanding form factor, and paying/fitting stands is an annoyance.

Main fear with Axiom is the oft debated issue of whether they are bright or not.
I will drive them with a Yamaha HTR-6190, a company sometimes accused of bright sound.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 07:27 PM

Hey, no reason to be sorry. I was just saying normally you get better results if you PM people, but it looks like your getting good feedback. Brent, hardly comes to the forums. \:\)

I would also disregard people saying receivers or speakers are bright, they are not. \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 07:37 PM

Twoears, keep in mind also, that if you go with a bookshelf speaker, the price comes up a fair bit when you add the stands to them.
Also, if you thought the MA centre was expensive, wait 'till you price the RSFX surrounds! Ouch!...ouch again! (QS8s, BTW, will work with many other speakers esp. MAs, Paradigms, B&W and other detailed speakers).
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 07:47 PM

Where did Eric disappear to?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 07:51 PM

The deaf Monk made him transparent.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 08:05 PM

\:\)
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/28/09 09:52 PM


I you want to check a m22ti+qs8+sub setup , you can come down my place, just send me a PM... I can let you hear the system in 5.1 and 7.1

I'm on the south shore.
Posted by: Family Man

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 09:34 AM

It was nice to meet you last night Denis. I hope if you get the M50/M60 you pass by, i would like to here them to compare with the M80.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 11:26 AM

FamilyMan, many thanks to you, your wife and family for being so welcoming and generous with your time. You have a powerful system and playing it at its cruise power is impressive.

My physical environment is quite different and calls for a less powerful system. My ears being a little delicate, my challenge is to pick speakers that can will perform well and give a rich sound in my room at moderate volume.

I don't know if capable speakers like the M60 will perform adequately at the moderate volume I will play them with my average Yamaha HTR-6190.

Whatever speakers I get, I will reciprocate and give you a chance to hear them.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 04:42 PM

The m60's and m80's sound great at low, mid, or high volumes. They are very efficient speakers and require very little power to play loud and clean. The specs don't lie.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 05:55 PM

For low volumes the M80s have the edge over the M22s as the bass can still be heard with out a need for a sub. And as I have discovered, having more power only appears to enhance the low volume listening on the M80s.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 09:39 PM

Thanks very much to LucRaymond who kindly opened his home and home theater to me.

He showed me what M22s can do with a subwoofer, small or large. It gives credence to the opinion supported by many that with an appropriate sub, it is not necessary, or much less necessary to have main speakers that have a strong bass.

I also liked very much the effect that can be obtained by playing music in 5.1 and 7.1. The QS8 performance was convincing, and it confirms them as my choice for surrounds; at least one thing solved!

After my auditions with FamilyMan and LucRaymond, who were very generous, I realize that one limitation is that my test CDs were insufficient. I have very few CDs left as I have converted almost all my music to MP3s (high bit rate, but I should have used a lossless format, had I known better).

As inaccurate as it is, my audio memory tells me that the sound I preferred so far was with the Monitor Audio RS6. I don't mean to say they are better than the Axioms, the audition was in different conditions; it was not an A/B comparison. I would like to have a chance to prove to myself that in equivalent conditions, the Axioms are just as good.

Since the MAs also have a nice bass, I may be able to live with them in a 5.0 HT system until I get a sub.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 09:51 PM

Hello,
Keep your original selection of M50s with a VP100, QS4 & EP350. Your room size requires no more to produce prodigious amounts of volume.
Perhaps use the extra cash on a DSP controlled sub, thatís where youíll get the biggest bang for your $$$$!

Monitor Audio builds a VERY respected loudspeaker, wonderful equipment! \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 10:08 PM

You were originally looking at the M50's which do sound a bit different then the M22's. You could also look at the M60's, they have a very similar sound to the M22 for mids and highs with the added bass of a floorstanding speaker, like you said a sub is not really needed.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 10:38 PM

twoears, do yourself a favour, go out and get yourself a set of Paradigms Studios. You simply can't go wrong.

Sorry folks, I feel no obligation to Axiom!

Oh no, now Iíve gone and done it ;\) \:\)
Posted by: Family Man

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/29/09 11:27 PM

The pleasure was our Denis. please let me know what you decide. I would greatly like to hook them to my system if possible and try them out.

see you and Luc soon i hope.

PS, i am waiting to see what Luc and Natalie decide as well.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 12:05 AM

 Originally Posted By: lhulls
twoears, do yourself a favour, go out and get yourself a set of Paradigms Studios. You simply can't go wrong.
You can if he doesn't like Paradigm either ;\)
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 10:21 AM

 Originally Posted By: Family Man
The pleasure was our Denis. please let me know what you decide. I would greatly like to hook them to my system if possible and try them out.

see you and Luc soon i hope.

PS, i am waiting to see what Luc and Natalie decide as well.


Hey Marco, feel free to drop by. I'm still testing different configurations. Last night I tried my AX 1.5 as a center and it sounded really good. There is a chance that I don't order the vp-150 and take an additional m3/m22/m60/m80 instead. I may end up with 3xm80 in the front, the deciding factor will be the height of the speaker. I don't want my center to cast a shadow on my screen.

I will place my order in the second week of April, allow a three weeks delay (factory outlet).

Don't wait for the m80! come and see, it's worth the trip.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 03:31 PM

Hi lhulls,

I suppose you are right for the quantitative aspect. Since I will use the system only at moderate volume, M22 or above is enough.

I wonder about the quantitative aspect though. I want something that will render my music (cool jazz, vocals and classical) well. Does anyone know about the M22/M50/M60 in that respect?

You seem to be acquainted with the MAs. Have you had a chance to compare them with the Axioms?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 03:55 PM

If you are willing to pay the premium for the MA's, I would buy them. I found them to be very good, nicely detailed, just haven't had a chance to get them A/B'd with my Axiom's. I still prefer the Axiom sound but then again this is what I am used to. \:\)
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 04:15 PM

You seem familiar with the sound of all three. How would you compare them for music rendering?

Do you think the M50 and M60 have enough bass for music, and acceptable HT in an apartment?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 04:41 PM

I have not heard the M50, just know about it's sound from the forums, the M60 has more than enough bass for music and I think would be acceptable for HT, if a sub is not desired, but there really is no substitute for a sub with HT. I think the M60 might sound the closest to the MA's, I have only listened to MA's in a store and the M60s in my own home, so take it FWIW.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 05:02 PM

I'll probably be shot for this, but I'd get the M60s out of those 3. I have the M50s as well as the M80s and M22s, and I've heard the M60s. The M22s, M60s, and M80s are pretty similar in terms of soundstage, imaging, and general sound. The M50s are good, and certainly have more bass than M22s. They're not quite as detailed (although we're really splitting hairs here) and the soundstage isn't quite as good. Either that or they're more picky about placement.

Caveat: I have the M50tis. It's certainly possible that the M50v2s have significant improvements.

Either the M50s or the M60s will take care of you as far as bass for music, and should be adequate as far as HT, as long as you're not expecting anything seriously rumbly.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 05:23 PM

It's entirely possible that the RS6's sound closer to the M50's as they are similar in design...2 1/2 way vs the 3 way design of the M60s and M80s. Regardless, they are an enjoyable speaker to listen too.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 05:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
I'll probably be shot for this, but

***BLAM!!***
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 05:45 PM

Aaaag! I've been hit!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 06:01 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
It's entirely possible that the RS6's sound closer to the M50's as they are similar in design...2 1/2 way vs the 3 way design of the M60s and M80s. Regardless, they are an enjoyable speaker to listen too.
I just felt they sounded simialr to the M60s. I think as Ken said it really is splitting hairs as to the sound of each, but I know I was taken aback at the less forward sound of the M60s compared to my M22s, but now that I have heard the M22v2, I think the M60/M22 are very close. My M22s Ti's are closer to the M80s forwardness, which is why I ended up with M80s and most likely why I feel most other speakers sound closer to the M60's sound except but a few.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 06:11 PM

Were you able to A/B them Jay? I heard the RS6s but only up against their larger sibling, the RS8s.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 06:12 PM

Speaker reviews measure many things but the one thing missing is the specs of the listener. I imagine no two ears experience sound exactly the same way. I would describe mine as rather sensitive, not necessarily better or more refined.

When I go to movie theaters I often feel pain because it is too loud. I find offensive a lot of the musak we hear in public places. I usually speak in low voice because I hear myself loud enough. I can't go to concerts with amplified music; my ears can't stand it. I listen only to accoustic music and vocals. I love "good" (cannot define it) music with a full sound without being loud. And I prefer silence to bad music.

Now, how does that translate into a good choice of speakers?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 06:14 PM

My wife has the same issue. I think she generally preferred the M50s to the M80s, but that could have been because of positioning issues.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 06:30 PM

It sounds like you are describing the type of music you prefer more so than the speakers you like twoears. That said, I thoroughly enjoy playing a wide range of music on my Axioms. Acoustic artists such as James Taylor and The Sundays really shine on them as does classical and well recorded music of virtually any kind. I have a preference for moderate volume in general as well so I can "hear more". I agree with the advice that I was given when auditioning speakers...that would be to use your own music preferences(hopefully quality recordings), give your ears a chance to 'adjust', play at the volume you prefer, take your time and make a note of what you liked/disliked about the speakers so you will remember. It's always good to play "challenging" music with a lot of variance such as Classical music as opposed to Pop or Hip Hop.

Something you see more and more people doing is wearing earplugs at live concerts, which actually help you hear better if they are decent plugs. Often the arenas or venues that are being used have poor acoustics unfortunately.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 10:41 PM

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
My wife has the same issue. I think she generally preferred the M50s to the M80s, but that could have been because of positioning issues.


Interesting, how would you describe the difference, especially what made her prefer the M50?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 10:45 PM

I'm not really certain. It could certainly merely be a placement issue. The M50s are a bit less accurate than the M80s (slightly recessed treble), although not nearly as much as some would lead you to believe. That may have played into it.

Just asked her; I'm wrong. It was that she preferred the M80s not toed in; firing at her was unpleasant.

Nemmind...
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 10:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
It sounds like you are describing the type of music you prefer more so than the speakers you like twoears. That said, I thoroughly enjoy playing a wide range of music on my Axioms. Acoustic artists such as James Taylor and The Sundays really shine on them as does classical and well recorded music of virtually any kind. I have a preference for moderate volume in general as well so I can "hear more". I agree with the advice that I was given when auditioning speakers...that would be to use your own music preferences(hopefully quality recordings), give your ears a chance to 'adjust', play at the volume you prefer, take your time and make a note of what you liked/disliked about the speakers so you will remember. It's always good to play "challenging" music with a lot of variance such as Classical music as opposed to Pop or Hip Hop.

I don't master the vocabulary to describe speakers.

If I try I would say that what pleased me in the MA RS6 was that they did not sound boxy, that they were airy, had a generous enveloping bass, the higher frequencies had detail without harshness, the voices sounded warm and generous. I felt like I wanted to continue listening. I don't want to be too lyrical but there is something seductive about them.

Well, that was my attempt with words.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:02 PM

I just did a quick test, adding a low cost subwoofer to my old Pierre-Etienne Leon M1 speakers, and it made quite a difference.

If I could find a matching center, I would consider the option of keeping them and add a sub and surrounds.

I have no idea how I could determine what center could match.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:08 PM

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Just asked her; I'm wrong. It was that she preferred the M80s not toed in; firing at her was unpleasant.

Nemmind...


It gives a new meaning to sonic memory not being accurate ;-)
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:18 PM

 Originally Posted By: twoears
Speaker reviews measure many things but the one thing missing is the specs of the listener. I imagine no two ears experience sound exactly the same way. I would describe mine as rather sensitive, not necessarily better or more refined.

When I go to movie theaters I often feel pain because it is too loud. I find offensive a lot of the musak we hear in public places. I usually speak in low voice because I hear myself loud enough. I can't go to concerts with amplified music; my ears can't stand it. I listen only to accoustic music and vocals. I love "good" (cannot define it) music with a full sound without being loud. And I prefer silence to bad music.

Now, how does that translate into a good choice of speakers?

I am replying to myself now... I'll soon need a shrink.

What I would like to have to that dB vs frequency graph but for my ears.

Imagine matching listeners and speakers based on their graphs. A computerized matchmaking system could find your perfect companion in a brave new world of audio.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:39 PM

Hello twoears (I love the name... twoears)

I've not heard the Monitor Audio system in direct comparison with any of the Axiom systems. I have heard both the MA RS6 and RS8 side by side and they were virtually indistinguishable, to my ears at any rate. Monitor Audio has always been a favourite of mine, British loudspeakers in general I confess, and so perhaps my opinion is prejudiced a tad.

One thing you should keep in mind when considering opinions from forum members, including those of myself, is that if an individual has not heard a set of loudspeakers over an extended time period of time, they simply donít have enough experience with that system, and are making an educated guess on the sound of that system, which, indeed, is what most of us can offer.

Further, itís very easy for an individual whose opinion is respected to influence the opinions of others. i.e. Ė Alan Lofftís opinion of the M50ís. (I never thought Iíd experience an employee trivialize a product their trying to sell?)

As Iíve indicated in past posts, Iíve never heard the M60ís or M80ís (I own M50ís, I love them) so I cannot offer an opinion. If I were to ever consider another Axiom system, the M60ís would be my ďupgradeĒ (big maybe). I would not consider the M80ís.

Consider the impedance and sensitivity of the loudspeaker, but donít get caught up in the numbers either, your ears will tell you far more than specifications ever will.

Good luck with your decision and enjoy the music, not the hardware!
\:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: twoears
I just did a quick test, adding a low cost subwoofer to my old Pierre-Etienne Leon M1 speakers, and it made quite a difference.

If I could find a matching center, I would consider the option of keeping them and add a sub and surrounds.
Twoears, I've not heard of those speakers you have but that is an option you might consider...ordering a centre channel, and trying it out. Axiom gives you 30 days to trial the speakers, if you feel they don't match...you just pay shipping to send them back. Perhaps one of the guys who has Axioms near you would let you hear your speakers with their centre?

How would you describe "the perfect sound" that you are looking for? Do you like a warmer or 'laid back' sound? a more forward, detailed sound? certain speaker co's have certain traits or characteristics in their products. Companies like Axiom, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, B&W, Kef and Klipsh to name a few, have somewhat similar approach to sound.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/30/09 11:59 PM

Companies like Axiom, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, B&W, Kef and Klipsh to name a few, have somewhat similar approach to sound.

Agreed, sans Klipsh! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/31/09 12:01 AM

Don't call me Sans Klipsch!
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/31/09 12:26 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
How would you describe "the perfect sound" that you are looking for? Do you like a warmer or 'laid back' sound? a more forward, detailed sound?

What I said in post #254595 is pretty close:
 Originally Posted By: twoears
... what pleased me in the MA RS6 was that they did not sound boxy, that they were airy, had a generous enveloping bass, the higher frequencies had detail without harshness, the voices sounded warm and generous. I felt like I wanted to continue listening. I don't want to be too lyrical but there is something seductive about them.

I am not sure what laid back refers to sonically, but too forward (as is in "in your face") does not appeal to me. I like being surrounded by sound though. Purists might object, but I enjoy playing certain things on many channels, and even - oh shocking - using the enhancer modes of the receiver.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/31/09 03:09 AM

Twoears, you sound like you like to listen at low volumes for the most, IMO Axiom is the best speaker for low volumes. I think your description of the MA's is very accurate. I find that smoothness they had, would hide minute details that I could hear easily with my M80's, I think the M60s would have hid those details just a little, much like the ma rs 6'S, but again I think we are splitting hairs.

Again I stress this all from memory and coming up on a year and a half ago now, but I think I am recalling my thoughts at the time quite clearly.

Best way for you to know for sure would be to try the M60s, in your house; the return shipping is reasonable with Axiom's account price, ~$70 I think for the pair.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/31/09 05:17 PM

And, for what it's worth, the only way to really decide on speakers is to try them in your room over a little period of time.

Someone (Jack?) has started saying that if you consider the worst-case scenerio of sending the speakers back a "cost of renting them for a month" it's pretty reasonable"!

This is, of course, the only time the name "Jack" and the word "reasonable" have ever been used together!

(What's funny about that is that Jack is THE most reasonable guy on ANY forum)! \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 03/31/09 06:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

(What's funny about that is that Jack is THE most reasonable guy on ANY forum)! \:\)
I'll second that!
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 12:25 AM

After some deliberation with myself, we have decided to order 2xM22 + VP100 + 2xQS4|8. Decided only not done yet.

Has anyone tested the QS4 vs QS8. The price difference is not big but QS4 may be sufficient. I don't know about the timbre though.

The missing item is the sub. The HSU VTF-1 looks good.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 09:18 AM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

(What's funny about that is that Jack is THE most reasonable guy on ANY forum)! \:\)
I'll second that!

Aw Shucks! Thanks for the kind words, fellas. Means a lot to me.

What's really interesting is, I just read this whole thread for the first time. As I went through it, I was struck by how even-handed, friendly, and helpful everyone was being, even when discussing speakers other than Axioms. Quite unusual, really. You guys have a right to be proud of yourselves and this forum. You've mastered making the end result the most important thing. In this case, the desired end result is that Twoears ends up with a system which provides him as much pleasure as ours do us.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 05:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: twoears


Has anyone tested the QS4 vs QS8.
Dan tested both of the Qs as well as some of the other Axioms on this thread.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 05:57 PM

Thanks for reminding me of the pain, Adrian. Wonder if I was right about the QS8s fitting on my current mounts...
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 06:07 PM

Sorry Ken! was the space so restricted that you had to go with the 4s instead of the 8s?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/03/09 06:16 PM

No, not really, it was, let us say, special circumstances. I keep toying with upgrading.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/29/09 09:49 PM

Oye, Oye, I finally cracked last week and bought new speakers!

I now have a pair of front Monitor Audio RS6 and an RS-LCR center. I added a Paradigm DSP-3100 subwoofer to the mix. And I am using my old Pierre-Etienne Leon M1 as surround until I perhaps decide to replace them with a pair of QS4/8.

I really can't say if they are any better than Axiom. I don't pretend they are, I just don't know, yet.

How did I make the decision? Shopping for speakers is fun but it can also become a torture. I toyed with many scenarios to try, order, wait, test, send back, etc to death. One night, before going to bed I asked myself, what is the point of buying speakers? Simple answer: pleasure, to make myself happy. So, what had I learned in my little exploration experience so far?
- for the pleasure of the ears: MA
- for the pleasure of the eyes: MA
- for the pleasure of having them sooner: MA
- to avoid any displeasure of shipping back and forth: MA

Had I had more patience, I would have tried a kit of M22 + VP100 + QS8, but by then I was tired and impatient. The following day, I was connecting the wires to the new babies.

So far, I like them. They are even supposed to get better after break-in (I know some people do not believe in break-in; I don't know, the salesman said that when they receive new speakers they do not sound the ones that have been broken-in. Perhaps.)

Again, my choice is not the outcome of comparing Axiom and MA. I just picked from what was my best experience so far to put an end to the quest.

So, Family Man, as promised, I could pack the RS6s for trip to meet your M80s. And Luc, you are welcome to join in. The more ears the better.

Thanks to all who helped prolong the agony ;-) and helped to learn a few things in the process.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/30/09 12:51 AM

Congrats, twoears. Monitor Audio makes great speakers. I hope you enjoy them. That's what this hobby is all about!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/30/09 10:41 AM

 Quote:
Thanks to all who helped prolong the agony

Hey, anything we can do to help...

Congrats on the speakers. I never had the pleasure of hearing the MAs, but I'm sure they are a great speaker.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 04/30/09 06:28 PM

Wonderful choice! Enjoy! \:\)
Posted by: alan

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 03:43 PM

ihulls,

Reading through this thread, I came across a nasty comment of yours, to wit:

"i.e. Ė Alan Lofftís opinion of the M50ís. (I never thought Iíd experience an employee trivialize a product their trying to sell?)"

I have never trivialized the M50s; they are a very nicely balanced speaker, just slightly less detailed than the M60s, M80s and M22s. And that isn't "opinion". Those conclusions are a result of many days of double-blind listening tests using a wide variety of recordings of virtually every musical genre and instantaneous A/B switching. Axiom performs its listening tests exactly in the manner that the original National Research Council tests were conducted, as originally designed by Dr. Floyd Toole, whose paper "Turning Opinion Into Fact" you might benefit from reading.

Contrary to the popular belief that "we all hear differently", in fact, the majority of people with normal hearing--when auditioning speakers blind, with the price, brand and size concealed--agree on which speakers are the most natural and "musical" and which speakers are the most inaccurate and unpleasant. Given two very good speakers that are closely ranked in blind tests (no two sound absolutely identical), you may have a slight preference for one over the other, but often that choice may be largely dictated by a particular musical selection. The phrase "similarly good" applies in such cases, and, as I've stated here before, sound quality and neutral accurate musical reproduction do not correlate with loudspeaer price. I've tested very costly speakers under blind conditions that trailed by a large margin some Axiom, Paradigm and PSB models that cost a fraction of the price (including such brands as Kef, Thiel, and others).

I continue to do the listening tests to the entire product line at Axiom and suggest changes if I detect glitches or resonances. For the record, the tonal balance of the latest version of the M50s is very like that of the M3s, with deeper bass extension and output.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 04:04 PM

Hey Alan, can I trade my old M50s for new ones? ;\)
Posted by: alan

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 04:33 PM

Hey Ken,

I don't see why not, although you did note that the differences in midrange/treble detail between your old M50s and the other many Axioms (M80s. .) at your place were "hairsplitting."

Of course, if we got your old M50s back, I could ask to have them put into a series of blind listening tests along with the "new" M50s and this could be settled once and for all.

Cheers,

Alan
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 07:20 PM

Ummm. Could I trade some 25 yr old Sansui speakers for....
Posted by: fredk

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 07:59 PM

... a pb&j sandwich?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 08:49 PM

Yeah, I could trade them...+a few hundred bucks!
Posted by: Family Man

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/01/09 10:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: twoears
Oye, Oye, I finally cracked last week and bought new speakers!

I now have a pair of front Monitor Audio RS6 and an RS-LCR center. I added a Paradigm DSP-3100 subwoofer to the mix. And I am using my old Pierre-Etienne Leon M1 as surround until I perhaps decide to replace them with a pair of QS4/8.

I really can't say if they are any better than Axiom. I don't pretend they are, I just don't know, yet.

How did I make the decision? Shopping for speakers is fun but it can also become a torture. I toyed with many scenarios to try, order, wait, test, send back, etc to death. One night, before going to bed I asked myself, what is the point of buying speakers? Simple answer: pleasure, to make myself happy. So, what had I learned in my little exploration experience so far?
- for the pleasure of the ears: MA
- for the pleasure of the eyes: MA
- for the pleasure of having them sooner: MA
- to avoid any displeasure of shipping back and forth: MA

Had I had more patience, I would have tried a kit of M22 + VP100 + QS8, but by then I was tired and impatient. The following day, I was connecting the wires to the new babies.

So far, I like them. They are even supposed to get better after break-in (I know some people do not believe in break-in; I don't know, the salesman said that when they receive new speakers they do not sound the ones that have been broken-in. Perhaps.)

Again, my choice is not the outcome of comparing Axiom and MA. I just picked from what was my best experience so far to put an end to the quest.

So, Family Man, as promised, I could pack the RS6s for trip to meet your M80s. And Luc, you are welcome to join in. The more ears the better.

Thanks to all who helped prolong the agony ;-) and helped to learn a few things in the process.



it would be a pleasure. you are more that welcome to come over again Denis. I have told Luc that i would see his setup as well. I will call him and we could get together here or at Luc's place. i really want to here the MA's
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 08:39 AM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
... a pb&j sandwich?
Throw in fries and a coke, and give me a call Fred! \:\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 08:42 AM

With a PB&J? You Canadians ARE weird! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 08:50 AM


Posted by: alan

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:33 AM

Hey, what's a pb&j? Have I been away from Canada too long? Has my cultural anchor come loose? Is Steven (Stephen?) Harper still in charge? Am I losing touch? (I just learned from my former spouse that iHOP is the International House of Pancakes!)

Cheers,

Alan
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:39 AM

An oldie but a goodie: Peanut Butter and Jelly! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:43 AM

Hi Alan. That's the name of a restaurant, American I think(never been to pb&j). iHOP is also the name of a Chinese grasshopper.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:45 AM

Only when listening to leeeeetle, tiiiiiny Apple MP3 players....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:45 AM

Peanut Butter and Jelly? duuh! OK, forget the fries and coke...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:46 AM

Seriously.

Canada really IS like a normal country, isn't it? \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:49 AM

"Like", yes.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 09:50 AM

Should have asked for fried bananas with the pb&j.
Posted by: twoears

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/02/09 10:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: Family Man
it would be a pleasure. you are more that welcome to come over again Denis. I have told Luc that i would see his setup as well. I will call him and we could get together here or at Luc's place. i really want to here the MA's


I'll bring them to your ears Family Man. Your place is easier to reach and will lend itself better to the experience.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/03/09 09:57 AM

I'd like to hear the MA GS60s some day.
Posted by: alan

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/03/09 10:30 AM

Oh, OK! I know B,L&T, but I don't think the acronym p,b&j were current in Southern Ontario when I was a kid.

Alan
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Listening to M50 or similar in Montreal - 05/03/09 01:19 PM

Sir,
Thereís certainly no question that your experience with audio/video equipment far surpasses mine exponentially.

I donít believe that I have ever implied that these loudspeakers in question sound exactly alike; but rather have questioned just how much of a different there is!
To quote you sir describing the M50ís/60ís (M22ís?):
"But these subtle differences are really only easily noticeable on instantaneous A/B comparisons with a switcher."

Allow me to repeat myself from another post; if I favourably compare the M60ís/M80ís to European loudspeakers priced at $2500.00, most of the people on this forum would have no problem accepting this comparison. But if I compare the M50ís to the M60ís/M80ís which are built by the same manufacturer in the same building, using essentially the same drivers, technology and research, people frown. Why is this?

Re: my comment
"i.e. Ė Alan Lofftís opinion of the M50ís. (I never thought Iíd experience an employee trivialize a product their trying to sell?)". Perhaps this was uncalled for, apologies!

Sir, I visit this forum for exclusively for amusement and respond only if I have information worth contributing. Further, some forum members refer to Axiom as if it is sentient, I do not, itís just a business to which I have no contrived loyalty.

Good day sir,
LHulls