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#100333 - 06/27/05 02:29 AM Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Alright. I will start by saying I am not very knowledgable of sound systems. I however have been directed to this place to get very high quality sound systems. I want to get a very good sound system for my room and I understand that the consumer level systems that you can buy at circuit city and walmart just don't cut it. I want my system to be worth the money I put into it. I am unsure of what system to get for my room. I want to have very good quality in everything, but my room also isn't very big. It will be used for much of playing video games and watching movies. I took the time to measure my room out in areas that might matter when choosing where to mount surrounds and such. The listening area will be my bed.

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/8480/roomdim3fw.jpg

Also to compare to the diagram I made, I took a picture of each corner of my room from the corner across from it.

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/2010/roomzorz3600zv.jpg

The sound systems here just include the speakers correct? Meaning I would need to buy an amplifier and wires? I've look into amplifiers but I still find them confusing. After we have decided on the best sound system for my room, could someone help me choose the best amplifier to go with it? And wires too.

This is alot to ask for, but the help would be much appreciated, thanks.

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#100334 - 06/27/05 02:40 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#100335 - 06/27/05 02:46 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
So far the Epic Grand Master 175 seems like a decent choice. But is it too much or not enough? Tell me anything to help me!

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#100336 - 06/27/05 02:52 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
I've never listened to the M22s but they do get very high marks around here. I don't think the M22s, QS8s and EP175 would be too much. This is obviously a bedroom, dorm room or something similar. Will this system be used in a larger area at some point in the future?
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#100337 - 06/27/05 02:55 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
This will be in the bedroom for a quite a long time I'd say. This would be pretty much a system just for a bedroom, in the future when I have my own house, I may get a larger system for a living room, but as of now I have no reason to need a bigger system. But its not like this would be a waste, regardless I would have use for a system to fit a room that size.

Edit: Once it's decided on the system, I would like to know where the best place to position the speakers. Would I need to rearrange the room?


Edited by SanityLapse (06/27/05 02:57 AM)

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#100338 - 06/27/05 03:03 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
I'd probably go with the above system, you'll get a lot more help later on in the day whenever the masses and gurus show up. I've had an Onkyo 502 reciever that I think would be a good choice with this speaker system.

Way past my bedtime, good luck.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#100339 - 06/27/05 03:37 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
SL, welcome. I've been looking at your diagram and pictures trying to figure out a good placement in those tight quarters. The present arrangement is possible, but my thought would be to put the head of the bed where the 4' dresser is and the dresser about where the TV is. Then set up TV and 3 front speakers along the wall with the window. Mount QSs about 6' up on the back wall to the left and right of the bed(work around the door as best as possible).

As far as speakers, I have M22s and they would be excellent in that size of room although you could even go with M2s if that would fit your budget better. You don't need QS8s in that size room; QS4s would be plenty. For a center the VP100 is fine, but my own preference would be to use a vertical M2 center. You can consider a smaller sub, and one that's possibly more cost-effective than the smallest Axiom sub would be the Hsu STF-1.

For speaker wire regular 16ga lampcord for 20 cents a foot or so is all that's needed for those short runs.

Yes, you'd need amplification, and there're many fine receivers available, depending on your budget. In the $400 area good choices are offered by Denon, HK, Pioneer and Yamaha, among others.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#100340 - 06/27/05 04:03 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Welcome SL

It sounds like you are looking for a giant killing system at a budget price, and you've come to the right place for as many opinions as we have board participants.

I'd recommend a digitally amplified Panasonic XR50 or 55 which you can pick up for under $300. I'd get an Oppo Digital - OPDV971H DVD player for under $200. I'd go with the VP100 center, a pair of M3Tis for the front L/R and a pair of Bic Acoustech Ht-63 Surround Speakers for about $180.00/pair. I'd check your local classifieds for a used subwoofer which you can demo and make sure works without making flatulating noises. A nice used Velodyne CHT10 for about $150 would be a great addition that system.

Good luck and welcome!!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#100341 - 06/27/05 08:25 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Sanity,

I think John's suggestions are excellent. The only drawback to moving the 4' tall dresser and bed is that your TV would partially block the window, and, with the bed sticking out into the room, you wouldn't have much open space in which to move around. You COULD get away with leaving things as they are and hang the QS4s on the wall above your bed. Neither option is ideal, but few of us are able to execute the ideal.

I have the OPPODigital DVD player. It's excellent, but it's recommended ONLY if you have a DVI input on your TV. If you don't have a DVI input, pass it up.

Any modest receiver from the companies John mentioned would be adequate. If you need to save a few pennies you could even buy a refurbished receiver from eCOST.com or other outlet. Many of us have refurbs and have had no problems.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#100342 - 06/27/05 09:15 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
SL
All good suggestions so far. If the QS4s are still a little out of budget, you could go with five M2s or five M3s. As far as the sub goes..... shop around.
What kind of game platform do you use?
If your not looking for a 5.1 setup (surround sound) and only need stereo, I would look at two M22s with a quality sub.
Good Luck.

_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#100343 - 06/27/05 11:06 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I am looking for a 5.1 setup. I already have a DVD/VCR combo, so if that is included with the amplifier and will cause the price to go higher then I don't need that, I need just an amplifier. My game platforms include: NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, PS2, and Genesis. And while this is no concern now, it would be possible to connect a laptop to the sound system right? So it seems that most people suggest I don't buy a subwoofer from this site? Is it that they are just expensive? Because I'm willing to pay a little more if the quality is better.

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#100344 - 06/27/05 11:24 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
shag Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Florida
From what I've seen from other around here, when comparing the EP350 to subs offered by HSU and SVS, most feel the other two are a little cheaper for the same performance. They also sound a little different from what I've read but never heard them myself.

I believe opinions have changed when talking about the EP500 and EP600. For the size room you are talking about here, I'm sure many here will suggest a sub other than axiom.

Don't be fooled though, I think the EP350 is a fine sub. Not sure about their smaller subs though.
_________________________
Shag
My Home Theater

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#100345 - 06/27/05 01:17 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
powerwindow Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Bellingham, WA USA
Shag,
How do you like your Sony RPLCD. I'm seriouly considering getting it, even with all the good words to be had for DLP's.
Sips

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#100346 - 06/27/05 02:31 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
My Son; who is very heavy into gaming, would like to suggest either five or seven identical speakers, due to the way the sounds are so directional in many of the games, and being able to pinpoint sounds within the room is important.

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#100347 - 06/27/05 02:50 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
shag Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Florida
Don't mean to thread hijack.... My Sony RP LCD is fantastic. As far as I'm concerned, just as good as a plasma (well maybe not but very damn close) and a thrid of the cost compared to the plasma a would have bought.

Very bright and clear picture even on a sunlit room. I would definitely recommend one. The DLPs are nice to but I like these better. A little smaller than the DLPs too.
_________________________
Shag
My Home Theater

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#100348 - 06/27/05 03:33 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
Shag:
Gotta agree with you on the Sony. I have had my 50" Sony for about a month now and find the picture quality fabulous!

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#100349 - 06/27/05 09:25 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I think I am starting to make a decision.

Fronts: Pair Millennia M22ti Bookshelves
Center: VP100 Center
Surrounds: Pair QS4 Surrounds
Sub: Hsu STF1? I looked into this a little. So it's a good choice for my size room? The EP350 is probably too much unneeded power, right?
Amplifier: ? No clue, I don't know how these work, they have to have something to do with the watts right? I can check with the companies listed, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. With the products listed above, what would be the best amplifier?

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#100350 - 06/27/05 09:38 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I will argree with Brotherbob ( Rick ) on the Onkyo 502.It's a nice reciever and easy to set up.You can find it at Ecost for $195.95 US.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#100351 - 06/27/05 09:41 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Check out Ubid.

Denon 885
Onkyo 602

Receivers with plenty of power for your system and priced well. Denon is refurbed, but that is not an issue with most forum members. $300 or less.

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#100352 - 06/27/05 10:05 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
On the amplifiers it says the power specifcations in watts for something like the front is 85 watts. but the speakers themselves are 200 watts, does that mean that over 100 watts are not used (ie wasted)?

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#100353 - 06/27/05 10:21 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
PaulM Offline
local

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 278
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta
You can basically ignore the wattage ratings for speakers. The more important spec.s are sensitivity (e.g. how efficient are they), freq. response +- 3dB and impedance.

You'll be more than fine with 50-100 watts of power from the amp with the speakers you are considering. Axioms are very efficient so don't require a lot of power to drive them and all but the M80's run at 8 ohms which is easy for amplifiers/receivers to power.

Paul

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#100354 - 06/28/05 01:39 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I'm probably going to order today or tomorrow but I have a few more things to get right.

Fronts: Pair Millennia M22ti Bookshelves
Center: VP100 Center
Surrounds: Pair QS4 Surrounds
Sub: Hsu STF1? I looked into this a little. So it's a good choice for my size room? The EP350 is probably too much unneeded power, right?
Amplifier: Onkyo 502 or Onkyo 602? Is there any reason to get the more expensive one?
Wires: All the wires I need are 16ga lampcords? Where can I find those? Radio shack or a hardware store or something? I would need 1 for each speaker right?

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#100355 - 06/28/05 02:01 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
mrnomas Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Florida
Couple of things, this site sells wires for cheap. Search for Belden. I generally use 12ga, though 16 may be fine for shorter runs. I have all the speakers that you are planning on getting and you’re going to be thrilled. I’ve used and love Onkyo receivers so you’ll be fine with either though I prefer the 602 for the extra channel, surround modes (DTS96/24), power, ect. The only thing that concerns me is this statement:
In reply to:

The EP350 is probably too much unneeded power, right?



Unneeded power? Too much? Huh?

Remember bigger subs are not (only) about louder – it’s about lower. Decide how low you want to go, then find the sub that does that the best (meaning flat response to that number).

_________________________
Professional Axiom Lurker

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#100356 - 06/28/05 11:47 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Fronts: Pair Millennia M22ti Bookshelves
Center: VP100 Center
Surrounds: Pair QS4 Surrounds
Subwoofer: HSU STF-1 SUBWOOFER
Amplifier: Onkyo 602
Wires:I relize I need 16ga wires, but that site linked above didn't help me, I searched for them and got all kinds of results. I need a direct link to where I can buy them.

Does this all look good? Anything else I would need? I'd like to make my orders within a day or so.

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#100357 - 06/28/05 11:50 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
You may want to go with 14 or 12 gauge wires. 16 is probably fine, but it just feels a little thin to me. (audio voodoo!)
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#100358 - 06/28/05 11:56 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Just a bit of reinforcement on your receiver selection:

I've used Onkyos' for years with great results! I'm currently using a 602 myself right now!!

In my opimion: Good Choice!





Oh yeah......Axiom makes great speakers too!!!!
Rich.

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#100359 - 06/29/05 12:07 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>The EP350 is probably too much unneeded power, right?

Well... the EP350 is definitely "better" than the STF-1 in that it both has more power and will play even deeper into the bass. We suggested STF-1 because it is probably the least expensive sub you can get that you will be really happy with. If you can swing the budget for a bigger Axiom (or Hsu, or..) sub then I don't think anyone will try to talk you out of it. We do tend to suggest EP350 over EP175 just because the price difference is really small and the EP350 is a better performer... but the price difference from STF-1 to EP350 is quite a bit more.

Anyways, I think this will be a real nice system, no need to upgrade any of the pieces, although Bridgman's law still applies :

Buy the sub last, and if you have money left over after ordering everything else get a bigger sub (assuming you live in a detached house).

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#100360 - 06/29/05 12:27 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
SL, yes probably the simplest thing is just to pick up 16ga lampcord at a local RadioShack, Home Depot, hardware store, etc. However here's a source for various wires with reasonable prices from 20 cents a foot up and reasonable shipping charges.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#100361 - 06/29/05 08:33 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
50' of SoundKing 16 GA - $16.95
100' of SoundKing 16 GA - $24.50

50' of SoundKing 14 GA - $21.95
100' of SoundKing 14 GA - $34.50

50' of SoundKing 12 GA - $22.95
100' of SoundKing 12 GA - $37.50

I use 12 GA, but you would probably be OK with the 16 or 14 GA. When figuring how much you need, be sure to measure the EXACT path the wire will follow, and allow a little extra for each run just in case.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#100362 - 06/29/05 10:56 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
mrnomas Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Florida
In reply to:

but that site linked above didn't help me




here is some 16 gauge for 7 cents a foot

or here for 12 for 17 cents a foot (this is what I used for my HT, not that you should care)

_________________________
Professional Axiom Lurker

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#100363 - 06/29/05 08:33 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
That one Onkyo auction is closed. Is a refurbished one like this any good?

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#100364 - 06/29/05 08:44 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Yes !
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#100365 - 06/29/05 08:45 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Jump on it. Refurbs are not a problem.

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#100366 - 06/29/05 09:11 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Yup; it's a goodie!!

(I like mine)

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#100367 - 06/29/05 10:58 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Ok, question about mounting the surrounds. I was looking at the Full Metal Brackets. Are those what I should do? Or is there some good cheap way to mount QS4s? I don't really wanna spend nearly $80 just to mount 2 surrounds. But if there is no other way. I was banging on my wall and have come to find about 3 studs I think will work.

Room

I labled the one where the right surround could go and 2 where the left surround could go. Which one is the better left, and are those even good at all having them that close? But mainly are the FMBs worth the money or is there a good cheap way to hang them?

Edit: Nevermind about the bracket aspect of my question, I now see that they come with some default brackets. But I still need to know where the best place to mount them are.


Edited by SanityLapse (06/29/05 11:15 PM)

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#100368 - 06/29/05 11:30 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
SL, if the bed location isn't going to be changed, that's about the best that can be done, but the one you labeled "R"(actually the left surround) should be separated a little farther.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#100369 - 06/29/05 11:36 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
ok, it looks a bit closer becasue the rest of the picture is cut off, but it'll still be pretty close together. My bed pretty much needs to stay where it is because the bed is the only piece of furniture i can have in along the window; the dressures and tv can't go by the window becuase they block it. This allows me to have maximum floor space which I need for my DDR pads (Cobalt Flux's ^_^) So then which should I go with? the speaker to the right of the bed or behind the bed? Would it be bad to have 1 right and 1 back, or should both be back if 1 has to be?

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#100370 - 06/29/05 11:44 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Both on the back wall.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#100371 - 06/30/05 11:39 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
2 more questions.

1 more on the surrounds, do you think a setup like this would work? it would make a bigger listening area, and how would that be any different than sitting on the right side of a theater and being closer to the right speaker?

And, I am still unsure of what to do with the subwoofer. By getting the 150 watt hsu one, would that reduce the power of all my other components to 150 watt? And would getting the 200 watt one from axiom be too powerful that it could make disturbances to others in my house? I want quality, but too much power on the subwoofer could be a bad thing. An extra $350 is alot..

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#100372 - 06/30/05 11:50 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
The QS surrounds are very forgiving on placement, based on the way the in-phase drivers fire up/down/left/right. Your room is not the ideal setup for home theater, however, I've seen a lot worse. You will be able to adjust the levels of the surrounds so your left one compensates for the further distance. On the other hand, putting them on the wall behind the bed, as far apart as possible, and maybe slightly pointing downwards would work also. A Powered sub, drives it self with its onboard amp, it will not suck power from the receiver. Depending on your house layout, any sub will be heard throughout your house, low bass likes to travel. Think about when your sitting in your car, and you hear that annoying thump, thump, thump, dang that drives me nuts
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#100373 - 07/01/05 12:36 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
SL, sure that would work, but I thought that the bed was going to be the listening area. If so, the right surround on the back wall just a couple inches from the side wall and the left surround in the area you show as 9" should give the best result for the head of the bed.

As Randy indicated, the sub amplifier is a completely separate matter from your other components. Regardless of how powerful the sub amp is, you can set its volume at whatever level you prefer, including zero. So, don't make power a significant factor in your decision.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#100374 - 07/02/05 03:55 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I finally ordered my stuff ^.^
I didn't end up getting the hsu subwoofer, I figured, why not, I'll just get the EP350...There aren't any video games out now that I want anyway so I can spare the extra (which only ended up being about $300 more due to shipping already included with the price and the 5% discount as opposed to the hsu)

So I should be happy. Everything has been ordered except for the cables which I'll probably do in a day or 2.

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#100375 - 07/02/05 07:54 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
did you order from the factory outlet to get the additional 10%?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/factoryoutlet.html
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#100376 - 07/02/05 08:16 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
That's going to be a great system. Congratulations !

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#100377 - 07/02/05 11:51 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Congrats on the order. We await your reviews and pics.

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#100378 - 07/02/05 01:12 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Yup; lookin' foreward to your comments!

Don't ya dare forget us!

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#100379 - 07/02/05 03:26 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
well, i just got my Onkyo 602 today. The manuel is pretty big. Looks confusing. I assume I'm going to need to buy an S-Video cable for the amp to go to the tv so all the video inputs can be seen on my TV. The basics look simple enough though i guess. S-Video from amp to tv. all video and audio from games and dvd players into the amp. speaker wires seem easy enough.

Oh, and i didn't know about that 10% off the parts...oh well..

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#100380 - 07/02/05 03:38 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
You can always call and change the order. Very helpful people.

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#100381 - 07/02/05 03:51 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
actually i'm not going to worry about changing my order. I'd be saving about $140 but have to wait an extra 3 weeks (causing me to have less time enjoying them this summer) and they'd also have defects (only physical ones, but still, that combined with the time aspect)

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#100382 - 07/02/05 04:49 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I felt the same way when I ordered mine.

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#100383 - 07/03/05 02:01 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
sssutherland Offline
local

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 243
Loc: Ventura, CA
If your TV has them go with component video connections not S-video. Component is a dramatic difference in quality.
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#100384 - 07/03/05 03:44 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Does this look right?

Onkyo 602 Amplifier setup

Is that how I should set it up? My tv has Video 1 as Component, so I would just leave my TV on Video 1 all the time right?

But isn't only the video cable the only bond between the amp and the tv? does that mean that I can't use the amp and surround sound speakers to watch cable?

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#100385 - 07/03/05 08:44 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
I also have an Onkyo 602, and what I do, is run the video right to the TV instead of going thru the receiver and maybe compromising the signal with a few extra connections and circuitry. The audio, however, is run thru the receiver: The analog and digital audio "out" from the TV goes to the receiver(as the cable co-ax, analog audio and component video goes directly to the TV)so the receiver gets cable signals from the TV instead of the cable box.

Oh, and I do the same with the DVD and games: Video to the TV; audio to the receiver!

Works for me, anyway!




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#100386 - 07/03/05 08:56 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In order to get surround sound from your cable hookup, you need to run either a digital coaxial cable, or digital optical cable from the digital coaxial output or digital optical output of your cable box to the appropriate input of your receiver. The area, in you diagram, labeled #8 is your 3 optical inputs, while #10 is your 2 coaxial inputs. Either connection will suffice.

Once you've run the cable, you'll need to go into the Onkyo's "Initial Setup" menu and assign whichever input you use to your cable input (see page 42 of your manual).

By the way, in order to get surround sound from your DVD player you'll need to run a digital cable from from your DVD to one of the digital inputs on your receiver, and assign that input, as well.

The "down" side to running your video from your cable box to the receiver, then to the TV is, whenever you want to watch TV, you MUST turn on your receiver. The "up" side is, as you've said, you only need one video cable running to your TV, which means you can leave your TV on Video 1 all the time.
_________________________
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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#100387 - 07/03/05 09:31 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
just an fyi, I would say about 80%+ of the people that order from Axiom's, order from the factory outlet, and you will never find any defects. It is an issue of quality control during the manufacturing process. Even if there is a slight nick, that you can't even see with a microscope, it gets sold cheaper. I bought all my stuff that way, got the 10%, and the 5% since i ordered 5 or more items. I'm sure with the weekend in all, you could call them and change the order, but heck, it is only money. You'll have them in a few days..

What color did you order...
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#100388 - 07/03/05 10:11 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Would it be more correct to say "80% of the people on the board" order from FO ? I know a lot of people who own Axioms who have never heard of the board, never heard of the Factory Outlet, and wouldn't be interested anyways.

I expect >80% order A stock -- it's just the folks like us (who ask lots of questions) who order through the Factory Outlet

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#100389 - 07/03/05 10:25 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Here are some results from a poll I did some time ago.

All Axioms from FO 30 (36%)
All Axioms from regular inventory 15 (18%)
Mix of Axioms from FO and Regular 27 (32%)
Mix of Axioms from FO & other brand speakers 5 (06%)
Mix of Axioms from Reg. & other brand speakers 6 (07%)

Of course the numbers are only from a small sampling, but it appears the FO, has a slight edge over Regular stock. I'm sure the pattern would continue if we questioned those who don't frequent the forumns.

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#100390 - 07/03/05 10:36 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I agree with your numbers completely. Where we disagree is whether the same pattern would be seen for the larger set of Axiom customers outside of the board denizens.

We need another poll; or better yet we can ask at the picnic.

I have visions of a "factory outlet" line after regular QA, where the most experienced staff get to bang up the corners and sides of the speakers with tiny hammers to ready them for FO

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#100391 - 07/03/05 11:35 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I agree that my 80%+ statement was probably a little off, as you can tell from my few poll results. It would be nice if Amie would chime in here and let the cat out of the bag. I'm sure they have sales figures that would give us the facts.

"How about a game of Tic Tac Toe"
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#100392 - 07/03/05 11:55 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
"In order to get surround sound from your cable hookup, you need to run either a digital coaxial cable, or digital optical cable from the digital coaxial output or digital optical output of your cable box to the appropriate input of your receiver. The area, in you diagram, labeled #8 is your 3 optical inputs, while #10 is your 2 coaxial inputs. Either connection will suffice."

I just have a regular coaxial, I can't use that? My DVD player is also a VCR, if I want Surround I can always watch TV thru my VCR anyway.

"By the way, in order to get surround sound from your DVD player you'll need to run a digital cable from from your DVD to one of the digital inputs on your receiver, and assign that input, as well."

huh? I need to buy another thing?

"The "down" side to running your video from your cable box to the receiver, then to the TV is, whenever you want to watch TV, you MUST turn on your receiver."

Is that really a down side? I'd need the receiver to use my good speakers...the tv speakers are terrible.

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#100393 - 07/03/05 12:12 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>I just have a regular coaxial, I can't use that?

If the coax cable has RCA connections on it (just plug in) that should be fine. If it has an F-connector (threaded, screw-on) then you need another cable.

>>if I want Surround I can always watch TV thru my VCR anyway.

If you mean "the VCR includes an RF modulator so I can send video and audio into the TV that way" you won't get surround that way -- you need the cable box to separate out the digital surround audio signal, normal TV doesn't have it. If you mean "the cable box has all those digital connections into my DVD / VCR already" I would be surprised.

If you mean something else entirely I would not be surprised

>>huh? I need to buy another thing?

Yeah, every source that you want to get surround sound from requires a separate digital input. Could be coax or optical. I'm assuming you have already confirmed that your cable service includes some programs with surround audio ? If not, make sure you buy the digital cable from some place where you can return it easily.

Note that if you are watching a program which does not have surround sound (most do not) your cable box may only output on the L/R analog jacks, so you will need to switch back and forth from digital to analog inputs for cable. Many receivers do this automatically though...

>>Is that really a down side? I'd need the receiver to use my good speakers...the tv speakers are terrible.

Yep... they just wrote that part because not everyone wants to hear TV through their "loud" speakers

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#100394 - 07/03/05 01:09 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

just have a regular coaxial, I can't use that? My DVD player is also a VCR, if I want Surround I can always watch TV thru my VCR anyway.


I think you CAN use a regular coaxial cable, but someone with more knowledge can either confirm or deny that. I use what is designated as a "digital coaxial cable," which, as you can see, isn't very expensive. I'm sure you can find one at your local Radio Shack.

In reply to:

huh? I need to buy another thing?


If you only run the standard dual analog audio cable, with red and white color coding, from any source device to your receiver, all you're going to get is stereo, which can be processed into Pro Logic surround. But if you want Dolby Digital or DTS, you're going to have to run a digital connection from each source.

In reply to:

Is that really a down side? I'd need the receiver to use my good speakers...the tv speakers are terrible.


LOL! Well, apparently, NOT in your case. My TV speakers are pretty darn good, and I see no reason to turn on my entire system just to listen to Brian Williams give me the news. So, for me, it IS a down side. YMMV.
_________________________
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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#100395 - 07/03/05 01:22 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
I use a shielded video cable (Monster, sigh...) for my digital audio. Amazingly, those little 1s and 0s haven't all fallen out. A regular coax will do just fine. Check out Axiom's--they sell the same cable for digital audio and analog audio.
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#100396 - 07/03/05 01:29 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
One of my first purchases from Axiom was the digital coax cable. Looks like a very expensive cable. Solidly built. Makes me want to replace all my Monster cable even though there will be no change in sound quality. It sure would look purty, though. . .
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#100397 - 07/03/05 03:33 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Ok
Here is the back of my 3 main devices in question

I need someone to take the time to make a diagram with pictures and names of all cables I need for this to work. I want the DVD player to have surround sound. I'd like cable to have surround sound if possible (on a side note, the cable coming into my room is a coaxle that screws on and I can't do anything about that.) And I checked into game systems, and Red and White is all they have, but people say they work with surround sound. So what needs to go into the amp, tv, and dvd player? I NEED ARROWS AND PICS!!!!!! please. ^.^

I'm gonna guess that the coaxle gets screwed into the DVD player's ANT-IN, Digital coaxle leaves the dvd player and goes into the Amp. and the TV receives cable simple from the Component inputs?!?! I have no idea what i'm talking about.....

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#100398 - 07/03/05 03:42 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Let's start very basic here. Do you have digital cable or is it standard cable?
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#100399 - 07/03/05 03:44 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I'm guessing that the middle picture is your TV, not your cable box. Do you have a cable box or just the cable with the screw-on connector ?

Whatever the middle picture is, it is divided into two sections, with component video and analog audio inputs at the top, plus S-video, analog audio and composite video connections at the bottom. I think there are labels in the white rectangles at the upper left of each section but I can't read them. Are the bottom connections inputs or outputs... and is this the TV or the cable box ?

Note that if you don't have a cable box you won't be getting digital cable signals, hence no surround and no need to worry about wiring for surround. Actually, I'm not sure if you can get surround sound from cable without having HDTV service ($$) and not even 100% sure about that.

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#100400 - 07/03/05 03:46 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Top is DVD player/VCR
Middle is TV
Bottom is Amp

In this room, I just have standard cable.

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#100401 - 07/03/05 03:49 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
The white lables you couldn't read just say "Input 1" and "Input 2"

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#100402 - 07/03/05 03:51 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
OK. Now we've got it. So. Your cable television connection does not supply Dolby Digital surround sound. All you get with standard cable is stereo. Now, if you can get that stereo signal into the receiver, then you can use the receiver to generate surround sound from that. It's not true surround sound, but it serves. The 2 main/best modes for doing this are Dolby Pro Logic 2 and DTS:Neo6. I don't remember if your receiver has one or both of these available, but it probably does. That's a DVD/VCR combo device, John, which does raise some interesting questions. Can you give us the model number, SL?
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#100403 - 07/03/05 03:53 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
philips 750vr

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#100404 - 07/03/05 03:55 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
OK. Let's talk game systems, because that's going to play into how the video goes from the DVD to the TV or to the receiver. What do you have/are you getting?

Also, does your TV have stereo outputs?
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#100405 - 07/03/05 03:59 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I have: Gamecube, Playstation 2, and N64 in that room. (GCN and N64 pretty much use the same cable). From what I've heard red and white are all game consoles have but it works with the surround.. The TV has only what you see in the middle pic. No outputs, just inputs.

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#100406 - 07/03/05 04:01 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
The PS 2 at the very least should have a digital audio output of some variety; it's essentially a DVD player. That's what will give you surround. I think the same applies to the Gamecube. Can you post pics of the back panels of those devices? (and maybe a closer in shot of the Onkyo?)
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#100407 - 07/03/05 04:10 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Closer shot of Onkyo 602

Well I read from other sources that game systems use a surround sound type thing even though they only have red and white cables. and I'm not concerned with the PS2 as a DVD player because I don't play DVDs in it.

back of a gamecube

Havne't found a back of a ps2 but I'm not as concerned after reading from other places. I am pretty sure on how to hook those up, but after all this talk of digital audio out from dvd players and such I'm not sure of that.

EDIT:
Here is a site that answers my GCN and PS2 questions. So lets move onto DVD and where exactly the cable should go.


Edited by SanityLapse (07/03/05 04:15 PM)

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#100408 - 07/03/05 06:03 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Let's get the approach right before we start running cables. I'm thinking :

- use the tuner in the VCR/DVD player so cable input goes to the VCR, not the TV. Take the batteries out of the TV remote and put it away unless you need it to turn the TV on and off...

- run VCR/TV and DVD as separate inputs on the receiver, using comp video and stereo audio (red/white) cables for the VCR/TV, S-Video and digital coax for the DVD.

- run S-Video from receiver to TV, all audio goes through the main speakers not the TV speakers (ie no audio feed to the TV)

- if the receiver can switch and convert to component video (ie if the rightmost set of component video RCAs are "monitor out") then replace "S-Video" with "component video" everywhere above...

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#100409 - 07/03/05 06:06 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
richeydog Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Fresno, CA
You hook up the dvd player for surround sound this way. On the back of your dvd player is labeled digital audio out with a coaxial connector. Plug one end of the coaxial cable into that connector and the other end into your receiver which is labeled digital coaxial(in 1 or in 2). After you do that then go to your Onkyo set up menu and assign the dvd player to input 1 or 2 and your set.
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#100410 - 07/05/05 06:59 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
ok how does this look? (I just relize I accidently put the Gamecube and DVD/VCR into the outs on the amp, but pretend I have them on the Ins)

Is this right?

And if you want to re draw it use this template

Edit: I decided not to go with any component video inputs because they are too expensive, and only the DVD player would use em, the game systems can't. So there is no point when everything else would be S-Video. So I was just gonna do everything as S-Video.


Edited by SanityLapse (07/05/05 07:01 PM)

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#100411 - 07/05/05 07:03 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Looks pretty good. You might get better sound out of the PS2 if you got the optical digital audio out setup going on it, as opposed to the L/R analog outs, but that may require a new cable for the PS2 (not sure). Also, does your reciever do video upconversion? If not, you'll need to hook up a composite video cable to the TV from the receiver. Also, you might consider running component video from the DVD either straight to the TV or through the receiver to the TV as opposed to S-video. So many options!
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#100412 - 07/06/05 11:24 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
WhatFurrer Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Sanity,

Actually there is a component cable for the GameCube, although you do have to order it from Nintendo...one thing though, if you go that route, you have to use the red and white analog audio connections anyway. The back of the GameCube "says" Digital AV but it is really only Digital Video especially since the cable you get from Nintendo only has the three component connectors ( I know I have one ).

I believe there is a component cable for the PS2...Ken is correct about the digital out for the PS2...

As for component being too expensive (it looks better than composite or s-video, not to mention, your TV has inputs for it ), Radio Shack (yes, I said Radio Shack ) has some good inexpensive component cables as well as Fry's (provided you have one)...Target has some good quality component cables as well...You could look at Best Buy or Circuit City, but stay away from Monster...Expensive for quality available elsewhere...also check Home Depot and Lowe's...they have been carrying component cables too...

It appears that the receiver you have, will pass-through everything via component...centralized switching is a good thing.

My .02,

WhatFurrer


Edited by WhatFurrer (07/06/05 11:35 AM)
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#100413 - 07/07/05 04:02 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
If you are calling $30 for a component cable cheap, then I'm getting S-Video for $6 or $7. Also, do I have the cable (as in cable TV) coming into the right place and going to the right place? I'd think it would have to go through the amp but i see no where where it would.

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#100414 - 07/07/05 04:24 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
if you think $30 for a component cable (which will give you notable differences) expensive then i think you have picked the wrong hobbie my friend.
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#100415 - 07/07/05 04:28 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
In reply to:

if you think $30 for a component cable (which will give you notable differences) expensive then i think you have picked the wrong hobbie my friend.




No kidding, snakeyes! If somebody told me years ago that I'd be getting into this hobby and spending such-and-such amount of money I would have run away screaming. And I have so many more years to go. . .



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#100416 - 07/07/05 04:37 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
if I had an HDTV or flat screen or plasma or something like that, I would get component, but I just have 32" tube tv, S-Video would be good enough.

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#100417 - 07/07/05 10:32 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
My stuff arrived this morning! It doesn't do me any good yet because I don't have any cables. Also I didn't notice any hook up cables with the subwoofer and no one ever mentioned it so I assumed it came with some but it didn't. What do I need to hook the sub up and where does the plug go?

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#100418 - 07/07/05 10:53 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Subs do not come with a cable. You have to provide your own. You need a standard RCA to RCA cable. But it should be a decent one. I was using a standard audio cable at one time, and I had a serious hum problem, I assumed this was from running it beside the subs AC cable. I replaced it with a sub cable from Blue Jeans Cable. Problem solved.

I suspect a Dayton sub cable from PartsExpress or one from a nearby Radio Shack ( but NOT a Monster brand - overpriced) would do just as well. Just be sure to get one th proper length with a little slack so you don't put a strain on the connectors.

I assume you meant hook up the sub to the receiver. You have the "sub output" marked in purple (#24), on the diagram to which you provided a link, on page 6 of this thread.



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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#100419 - 07/07/05 11:00 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
maybe i'll be able to stop at radio shack in day or 2 hopefully. I think this is all I need:

16 Gauge Speaker Wire
Digital Coaxile Cable (I couldn't find a cheaper one from radio shack)
Sub woofer cable
S-Video cables

I think thats all I need to get.

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#100420 - 07/07/05 01:56 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
sssutherland Offline
local

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 243
Loc: Ventura, CA
I have a 27inch TV and would not give up my component video cables for anything. They made such a big difference in TV picture that it was amazing. My wife thought that I bought some HDTV or something. If at all possible do not go with s-video if you can go with component. It really is a dramatic difference in quality. And it is not that easy to get any kind of difference in a home A/V system with $30!!!
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#100421 - 07/07/05 02:06 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
ok, I would need 2 component cables (1 for for TV-Amp and 1 for Amp-DVD player. But I would still need S-Videos for the Game systems...they would work right? Having the tv connected via component, but having some s-video devices?

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#100422 - 07/07/05 02:38 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Also, can I put my Amp on top of my Subwoofer or would that cause problems?

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#100423 - 07/07/05 08:38 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
SL, whatever types of wire and cables that you decide to get, there's no need to buy the pricey stuff. RadioShack is convenient, but their prices generally aren't really that good. Parts Express, which Jack mentioned is a good source and you might look at the items available from Triangle .
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#100424 - 07/08/05 01:47 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
What always turns me off about Parts Express (just before I'm about to buy stuff) is their exorbitant shipping costs. When I'm paying more for the shipping than the product, that's not a good thing. I say go with RatShack or Blue Jeans.
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#100425 - 07/08/05 03:32 AM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
I already order my things from there. Yeah, the shipping was a little insane and I'm sure thats how they are making more profit. But compared to Radio shack I didn't mind. What would have costed me over $100 at radio shack only costed about $40 altogether from the 2 sites I ordered from.

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#100426 - 07/08/05 01:12 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
WhatFurrer Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
I know that Fry's has component (pretty good quality) cables for $14.99...I have seen Acoustic Research cables at Target as well as Best Buy for less than $20...

The suggestion of Radio Shack was because most everyone knows of or has a RS near them...They do in a crunch but you can find better elsewhere...

Component DOES look better and if you have the imputs, it would behoove you to try it...You can even use a red, yellow, white cable set in a pinch...

I understand the budget restraints...unfortunately I did not do enough research when I originally bought cables and bought Monster...then realized I had been hoodwinked and paid WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY TOO MUCH! Needless to say, I learned my lesson...Component cable I use is not Monster.

Blue Jeans and (the now defunct Rhino) Cables are very good values but can "seem" expensive...but not compared to other boutique brands...

Just trying to help.

WhatFurrer
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#100427 - 07/09/05 03:02 PM Re: Need much help with getting a system!
SanityLapse Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 61
Can I sit my bookshelf speakers on top of my subwoofer? If not, can I put the subwoofer on the floor, then have a random box on top of that, and then the bookselfs on top of the box. Like this
|BS|
|BS|
|BOX|
|Sub|
|Sub|
|Sub|

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