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#101372 - 07/05/05 10:20 AM Honey, I need a little space
oz350z Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 562
Loc: Atlanta
As most of you already know from earlier posts I am interested in setting up a stereo only listening room. If i should go with Axioms I am on the fence between M60's which I recently auditioned and the M80's. I would prefer not to have to add a sub to the system if I can get away with out it. When I listened to the M60's I thought the bass was pretty good. But since I want to avoid adding a sub if I can, I want every bit of bass I can get. This would suggest the 80's. I listen to all kinds of music. I know with my room size I can go with either model. I need some help from all you M80 owners. My main concern with the m80's are posts I have read about them .being difficult to place. I have heard contrasting stories from 8 inches from the wall to 4 ft. If you could just describe you experiences on your set up. Your room size and description / characteristics (bright or flat)?
Your distance off the wall?
Did you find them problematic?
Do you think the amount of extra bass was worth it?
I know some of this information is out there. I have done many searches but the search engine seems a little squirrely and the information semms scattered about many different threads. Please keep in mind that I would like your personal experiences not here say. I know my room and my electronics would be fine with either set. I just don't want them 4 ft into the room.
Thanks
oz
_________________________
"Life is what happens while your busy making other plans" John Lennon

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#101373 - 07/05/05 01:29 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
audiofan Offline
local

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 203
First, how big is your room.

Mine is 12'x14'. I have M60 and it has more than enough bass, unless you want to have very heavy bass.

I place M60 2' from back wall and 1.5' from side wall. Both speakers are 9' apart. Since my room is almost square,i have to treat my room with bass trap and acoustic panel. My system also connected to power conditioner. THe whole thing makes M60 sings. The bass is tight and strong for most of types of music i'm listening (jazz, classical, pop, dance...)

If you have a bigger room, then M80 is better, even though i haven't listened to it , but based on the spec, M80 will be louder than M60.

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#101374 - 07/05/05 01:59 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
oz350z Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 562
Loc: Atlanta
My room is bigger. 13 or 14 x 20, open on 2 sides to other areas of the house, and 2 stories high. I liked the 60's but I might want that little bit more bass. If it is noticable enough.
oz
_________________________
"Life is what happens while your busy making other plans" John Lennon

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#101375 - 07/05/05 02:09 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi oz350z,

Placement of any large floorstanding speaker capable of extended deep bass output is always trickier than a bookshelf speaker. The latter are easy because 1)they don't have deep bass output 2) by virtue of their size, they are usually on stands or shelves, which keeps the woofers well away from the floor, so boundary reinforcement is minimized.

The M80 does have greater bass extension, and more bass output overall than the M60s, as you would expect from a larger and deeper enclosure. A floorstanding speaker by virtue of its deeper bass extension will be influenced by boundary reinforcement from the floor and the walls behind. So with the M80, it depends on your room's dimensions and where you are planning to put them. You do need to experiment to find the location that will result in smooth, deep bass output that isn't excessive. My own M80ti's are about 10 inches out from the wall behind and well away from corners. In my 19 x 13 x 9.5 ft living room, the bass is smooth and deep and perhaps a bit stronger than I want, but the setup isn't ideal (I have other Axioms on a switcher in the same room).

I'd suggest keeping them a foot or more away from the wall behind and certainly away from corners. But that's advice I'd given anyone on placing any decent floorstanding speaker capable of extended deep bass output.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#101376 - 07/05/05 02:14 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi,

The increased bass output of the M80s over the M60s is immediately noticeable on A/B comparisons. It goes a bit lower and there's more of it. And of course, the extra two drivers give it huge power handling--very clean sound at extremely high SPLs--if you want to drive them with a big 250 watt-per-channel power amp.

I'd describe my room as "normally furnished"--upholstered furniture, area rugs, bookcases, no draperies. Neither too absorptive nor too reflective.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#101377 - 07/05/05 02:39 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
oz350z Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 562
Loc: Atlanta
Hi Alan
Thanks for the reply. My room is about 13 x 20 but open on two sides to other areas and two stories high. One of the things I was curious about after looking at the specs on the two speakers was why the bass response was better on the 80 since they both have 2 6.5 woofers. I thought how different
could it be. The additional drivers would be in the mid and the extra tweeter. But if I understand you post correctly it is the cabinet volume that produces the increased bass? It that true or is there some crossover magic going on?

10 to 14 inches seems reasonable I could probably live with that. I have no problem keeping them off the side walls. I probably could provide 2 or 2 1/2 ft. Let me ask you this. The speakers may end up on a wall with each speaker standing in front of windows. The windows have medium wheight drapes which
could be closed when listening. Do windows cause any problems? Other than the usual UV and heat factor that is?
_________________________
"Life is what happens while your busy making other plans" John Lennon

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#101378 - 07/05/05 04:01 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Oz,

Yep, you can't get around the laws of physics. No magic is involved. If you keep the driver diameter constant and increase the internal cabinet volume, then you get deeper bass extension. In a ported (bass-reflex) system, you can "tune" the system and adjust the port size for greater extension. I'm simplifying here because there are many different trade-offs in getting deep bass extension. However, that's a given: You have to increase the enclosure volume to get deeper bass.

I noticed you have two-storey ceilings. I'd absolutely recommend you get the M80ti's. The greater internal volume of your room should simplify placement somewhat. The drapes (open or closed) would increase or decrease, respectively, the "liveness" (reflection or absorption) of the room.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#101379 - 07/05/05 04:47 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Oz,

I like bass, and lots of it. When I’m in the mood to hear some loud and obnoxious metal, I want to “feel” the bass. That being said, when I first got the 80’s, I was running them off the HK 7200. I just couldn’t shake this nagging feeling that I needed more bass, so I bought the LF-1. Problem was solved. Then I bought the Rotels, and the bass was almost too much. I’m not imagining this either. I could immediately tell a difference is SQ and bass extension, right along with more clarity throughout the highs, mids and lows. So to experiment further, I turned the sub off and didn’t feel as if anything was missing. I then turned the tone controls to the L1 position and definitely negated the need for the sub. I’ve since then been running the tone controls flat, and have the sub running a very low crossover of 45. The volume is also down from 7, to 5. I could easily live without it, but keep it, well, because I have it. And it does add to the overall sound some, but not enough to make me feel the need for it anymore.

For placement, I screwed around with the 80’s and moved them back and forth, in and out and toed in / out for a day. While I could detect some minor differences, they went back to where they looked natural in the room. They’re about 10” away for the fireplace, 2’ or so away from any corners, and 8’ apart. My living area is 28’ X 32’ with vaulted ceilings, 22’ high. Everything is wood, with lots of big windows. I wouldn’t fret over placement or whether the 80s have enough bass. You’ll be a happy camper.

_________________________


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#101380 - 07/05/05 06:27 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
oz350z Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 562
Loc: Atlanta
Thanks Mike, that is the kind of information I need. My room is a little smaller but open to kitchen /breakfast room on one side and foyer entry on the other side. My fire place is 2 story stone all the way up with windows flanking either side of the fireplace. I was think of the speakers in front of the windows and flanking the fireplace. I wasn't worried about if the 80's would have bass. I was worried about them having too much presence in the room if they had to be out as far as some people here have implied. WAF in the main thing there. For me I wouldn't care if they were 6 ft Avant Garde horns in the corner. Music is everything.

I also appreciate your reply in the other thread. I did respond to that and at the end asked if you wouldn't mind looking for this thread and giving some feedback. Looks like that other reply didn't go out somehow. (user error) No longer have any concerns about the ssss problem. Unless the M80 are dramatically different from the M60's which after reading you post sounds like it is not a major issue. Sounds like we have very similar taste in music. Love jazz and blues and classical but I relly listen to everything. Thanks again for taking the time.


I know there are a lot of other M80 owners out there. Please feel free to chime in here with your experience.
_________________________
"Life is what happens while your busy making other plans" John Lennon

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#101381 - 07/05/05 06:52 PM Re: Honey, I need a little space
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Oz,

I have the M80s in a similar size room as yours but the ceiling height is only 7.5'.My 80s are 18" from the back wall 2.5' from the side walls and toed in just slightly.I Listen to classic rock,blues and a little jazz here and there,and imo the 80s sound just great in this setup.

I do believe you will be pleasently suprised just how much bass you get from them.You could defintly get by without a sub,for music only.Even though they have a high sensitivty rating they really do like the power put to them.I too run them with a Rotel RB 1080 @ 300 watts @ 4 ohm.Looking at how you will have them set up I see no problems with placement.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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