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#122069 - 12/28/05 12:02 AM First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
So... spent the day packing up the HT system and reassembling the pieces in the new house to see how the room sounded and what kind of room treatments I would need immediately.

Step 1 was hooking up the M60s, receiver and DVD player then popping in a CD (Diana Krall, Live in Paris). That wasn't too useful because the VFD (front panel display) recently died on the receiver and the speakers were set to Small. After a few more grunts and curses I had the sub running and could do some serious listening.

The room is definitely too reflective and imaging was almost nonexistent, so first step will be adding a heavy rug in front of the speakers and doing something about the first reflection points, but overall I was VERY happy with the outcome. My big concern had been getting a boomy sound as a result of the 45 degree roof/ceiling behaving like a square room and emphasizing one frequency, but fortunately the room is sufficiently large that the primary room mode is just over 20 Hz. Boom away, I don't care

I had forgotten how different (and how good) a system can sound in a large room. The bass seemed very smooth and even compared to the smaller basement room where the system had been until this morning. Walking around the house showed that glorious "loft" or "church" acoustic behaviour, where the sound is slightly different everywhere you go but remains almost as clear on the floor below the loft as in the "sweet spot".

Next step was hooking up the DVD player, setting the center and surrounds to "None", popping in Finding Nemo and flipping to the Darla Tap scene.

Holy ^%$&%^*!!

I was always a bit disappointed with the Darla Tap scene in my old room, even after re-arranging the sub and listening position to greatly improve the bass. Here it was different -- the floor shook and the illusion of a giant banging on the wall was very real. Totally different experience.

The sub was running a few dB hot because I had wiped the receiver settings to try and fix the VFD problem (sub went from -5dB to 0dB) but I had run the sub hot before without hearing anything like this.

Next step was to pop in the War Of The Worlds DVD I had given my brother in law then promptly borrowed back

When the ground started splitting open (in the movie) my primary concern was that the loft might collapse, dumping me and the speakers into the kitchen below. The sub reached its limits at least once during the loudest parts, no doubt because it was set a few dB too hot. I will adjust the level down before playing any more DVDs.

Having a "live" floor makes a big difference in the "subwoofing experience". My old HT room was cheap parquet directly over concrete (and yes it was ruined every time moisture came in) while the new house has 2x6 pine over a timber frame.

Can anyone comment re: how much flexibility you need in the floor to get this effect ? I want to make sure my brother-in-law gets the right info before finishing his room. I'm wondering if those little plastic "bubble board" underlays will be enough to give a "live floor" or whether we need something like the 2x6 standoffs that someone here (Craigsub ?) used. I'm sure the floor wasn't the only difference (this room is much bigger) but I was sure surprised how much bass I felt through the floor.

Here are a few pics. First a straight shot of the starter system. The M60s are probably too far apart; this was my attempt to put them 8 feet apart but probably more like 12 feet. The sub is an SVS 20-39 PC Plus.



This pic shows the loft area a bit better. This is from the opposite corner of the loft :



... and here's a pic of the front now that the light fixtures are finally in and working




Edited by bridgman (12/28/05 12:15 AM)

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#122070 - 12/28/05 12:19 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The house and loft look fantastic, John! I moved from a house with wooden floors over a crawlspace to a home with floors (well, the downstairs, anyway) on a concrete slab. My bass no longer travels through the floor.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#122071 - 12/28/05 12:31 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Elegant quarters indeed, John.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#122072 - 12/28/05 12:31 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
richeydog Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Fresno, CA
Ok....I'm officially jealous of you right now. No fair.
Looks fantastic John.

So is it fair to say that the soup can's will no longer be of service? J/K! Btw, how do you think the qs8's will work in that triangular looking space of yours? They won't be going on the slanted wall, will they?


Edited by richeydog (12/28/05 12:52 AM)
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AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
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#122073 - 12/28/05 05:04 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Your new place looks stunning John! Very nice indeed.
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Rick
Our Room

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#122074 - 12/28/05 10:08 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
What a nice place John, I love the floor...you gotta get a different TV man. Personally, you need to go front projection, that would be totally awesome...
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#122075 - 12/28/05 10:26 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
EddyZ Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 139
Very nice room/house! My wife would be greener than the Hulk if she saw those pic's! Nothing like log/post and beam homes. She still has a copy of "Log Homes" magazine from 1995.

Definitley go front projection.

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#122076 - 12/28/05 10:40 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
sonicfox Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Davenport, Iowa, USA
Wow, your new home is beautiful! I'm envious. The speakers look like they even match the floor! But I'm going to have to say it...it's all a bit overkill for the TV!
_________________________
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Marantz SR6003
Samsung LN52B550
Oppo DV-980H
Insignia NS-WBRDVD

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#122077 - 12/28/05 10:50 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Absolutley love it, what a great job you did John.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#122078 - 12/28/05 11:16 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for all the nice feedback. Before anyone gets too envious, it's not a real timber-frame house -- that would have cost a lot more than I could afford -- but rather a conventional stick-built house with two wood-wrapped steel beams, 4x12 timbers to support the loft, and a 60-foot LVL ridge beam (which I think is a very cool idea) holding the roof up. I got lucky in that the guys on the framing team had been reading about timber framing for a couple of years and were looking for a place to try out what they had learned so the carport and decorative timber worked out far better than I had expected. Dennis (Tharkun) was also a huge help when I was making decisions about how to finish the house, drawing on his years in the construction business.

I had to make some compromises in order to afford the house, with the TV being only the most obvious one. I would like to replace it in the future if the toy budget ever recharges but my short term strategy of "sitting really close to the screen" has worked for me so far. My father was quite content using miniature binoculars to see text on his TV until we convinced him to upgrade to a 32" Sony so I guess we must share the "frugal" gene

That all said, I would prefer to start fresh and not use soup cans in the new setup. Plan A was to use FMBs on the angled walls (I already have 4 sets of speaker wires run to outlet boxes in approximately the right spots) but I don't think that is going to work because the two angled side walls are not the same length. The one on the left is very short while the one on the right is much longer so one of the surrounds would need to be in front of the seating position even with the 27" TV.

I have a pathological aversion to buying expensive speaker stands so have not jumped to the new FMS-QS, but those may end up being the best solution. In the short term I am looking through the pantry for equal-sized (stackable) cans and have enough to reach up about 2-1/2 feet already


Edited by bridgman (12/28/05 11:25 AM)

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#122079 - 12/28/05 01:30 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3903
Loc: Up yonder
Vert nice. I love timber frame homes. That's what my next house will be.
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#122080 - 12/28/05 06:24 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
you could always build your own stands, that is what im going to do sense i need a stand that is about a foot and a half.. and you could probably get some wood to match the house, that would be kind of cool..

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#122081 - 12/28/05 06:53 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
John, I've been reflecting on those beautiful pictures for a couple days trying to find something meaningful to say. Alas, rather than be labeled as disinterested or unappreciative, I will instead inadequately offer my observation that your new home seems like the sort of place I would be very comfortable. I have always been enamored of that type of architecture, particularly that big portico. The notion of covered, outdoor space is important in the north.

I hope you and your family will have many happy years there. Congragulations and best wishes.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#122082 - 12/28/05 08:19 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2841
Loc: Rochester, NY
John - it's been quite a while! Congrats on the new digs - stunning stuff.

I was happy to see the PC Plus in that room. I am just about to do our basement and I'm hoping my 20-29 PCi will be robust enough to provide adequate LFE.

Enjoy my friend.

Ray

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#122083 - 12/28/05 08:41 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
cgrface Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 150
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
Absolutely beautiful! Congratulations on the new home. Looks to be an extremely well thought out structure. I'm sure the loft area that you are using for your HT/music appreciation room will enhance your listening experience both by the esthetics as well as the acustical enhancements that the multifaceted ceiling will have on the sound dispersion. Again, congratulations...
_________________________
"Never, never, never give up "... Winston Churchill

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#122084 - 12/28/05 08:50 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7400
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
John, I'm going to have to go with tomtuttle on this one--I can't think of anything to say other than that is a stunning house. Very nice, indeed.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#122085 - 12/28/05 08:53 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
What Tom and Sean said! WOW!
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#122086 - 12/29/05 03:21 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
If John has no objections, I took several pictures of his house when I visited, and will post them. The loft is a lot larger than the pics reveal, it will be a great place to retreat to on snowy days, the view from the loft area looking over the area below and out the wall of windows is something one needs to see to appreciate.
Looking forward to a return visit invitation from John, want to try out the pizza oven that is part of the fireplace.

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ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#122087 - 12/29/05 10:14 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Feel free to post 'em -- your pictures were coming out a lot better looking than mine...

Thanks again for all the nice comments about the house. I went up there today and played some more music (and a bit of the Matrix). The biggest problem I have right now is that the dogs seem to be terrified of the loft. If I carry them up they cower in the center whimpering and shaking -- if I leave them downstairs they pace around the ground floor waiting for me to come back down, or stand at the bottom of the stairs and bark.


Edited by bridgman (12/29/05 10:28 PM)

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#122088 - 12/30/05 12:03 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7400
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Maybe the loft is haunted.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#122089 - 12/30/05 12:10 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Ever since my system has arrived, my dog has found the "special" spot the furthest from my room. They are terrified of low noises I think.
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#122090 - 12/30/05 12:28 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
They don't like high notes either. Dogs and audio systems don't really mix all that well, unfortunately. Sometimes I just turn the volume way down so they can come and relax on the couch

>>Maybe the loft is haunted.

The house is too new for a good haunting, but the loft is pretty much pyramid-shaped. Maybe the room is channeling some long-dead (and smelly) Egyptian ruler.

Hmmm. Maybe some Alan Parsons on the turntable next. Haven't heard Hyper-Gamma Spaces for a while


Edited by bridgman (12/30/05 12:31 AM)

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#122091 - 12/30/05 11:33 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17767
Loc: NoVA
Actually, apparenlty mummies don't stink. I have heard that they smell a bit spicy. Never smelled one myself, but hey...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#122092 - 12/30/05 11:47 AM Re: First HT noises in the new house
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Since I had 11 pictures of the house and ended up making some comments, decided to post them on The Water Cooler. The pics should be posted within the hour........ya, I'm a bit slow this morning.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#122093 - 12/30/05 12:29 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Actually, apparenlty mummies don't stink. I have heard that they smell a bit spicy. Never smelled one myself, but hey...

Oh great. There's a new Calvin Klein scent for 2006 ;(

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#122094 - 12/30/05 06:15 PM Re: First HT noises in the new house
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5376
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
So, I found a way to keep the soup cans. All I need is :

- a couple of three-foot lengths of SoffitTrap (pre-fab bass trap designed for the room corners)

- a couple of bags of lead shot for stability

- two soup cans per QS8

No problemo !!

http://www.realtraps.com/products.htm#soffittraps

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