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#143434 - 07/13/06 04:03 PM Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms.
fraink Offline
regular

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 8
I currently have the following:

HK AVR 300
M60's
VP150
Qs8's

I'm looking at the Outlaw 7500 and was curious of opinions if there's any combinations out there that people have researched and wanted to share. Should I not even focus on sending any more power to the rears and focus on a 2 or 3 channel amp? I watch a lot of concert dvd's and movies most of the time and occasionally listen to music. Room size 24 x 14.

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#143435 - 07/13/06 07:10 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
What is wrong with the HK? HK rates their AVR's very conservatively and are a high current design. The Axiom speakers are very efficient and easy to drive. I would think that HK would give you all the volume you would need?

You could by some Outlaw monoblocks to drive just the 60's and let the HK continue to drive the rest of the speakers..

Randy
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#143436 - 07/13/06 07:40 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: SirQuack]
fraink Offline
regular

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 8
Nothing wrong with the AVR 300 other than DTS complaints. Volume wise, yes it does give the volume I need, not necessarily want But depending on the source I have reached max volume while listening. But when nearing max volume my concern is damage to the speakers (Not sure how justifiable that is). It sounds like one vote for don't waste the money. Thanks for the response.

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#143437 - 07/13/06 08:10 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
TweedleyD Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Columbus,Ohio
Sounds like maybe something isn't hooked up right or Calibrated right or set right in the menu's somewhere ?
_________________________
If You Are Gonna Do It , Do It Right !!!

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#143438 - 07/13/06 09:06 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I would go the other way and say give the Outlaw or other amps a try. The H/K is only 50 watts per channel, that imo is not enough if you like to listen at high levels. Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed

You could go with three mono blocks in the front or look for a 3 channel amp.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#143439 - 07/13/06 09:57 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Another idea would be to buy a new receiver that outputs 110-125wpc, that would give you more power and be much cheaper than a 5 channel amp.
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#143440 - 07/13/06 10:15 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10305
Fraink, welcome. It's unclear what you mean by the "DTS" complaints. If this is something that can be solved without getting a new receiver, it's unlikely that the "more power" desire is a realistic need. Studies show that far less power is used than is sometimes imagined and keep in mind that you're not actually "sending" more power to the speakers when you buy an amp with a higher maximum output. The speakers use only as much as is needed and the rest is unused excess capacity.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#143441 - 07/14/06 12:02 AM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: JohnK]
fraink Offline
regular

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 8
Thanks for the welcome John, and the link wid.

I can see why the DTS comment was confusing, as I was just pointing out something reviewers called out as an issue with their HK 300. I haven't experienced it, and sorry for the confusion.

I don't hear any distortion at high volumes. So now I have the feeling that buying an amp will be 90% placebo effect due to money spent on it. After listening to a NIN DVD and reading through the comments/Alan's article, I've concluded to just save the money and if need be, buy a better receiver down the road.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, my wallet thanks you. I'm going to go punch the guys who keep telling me "It's only money, go buy it!"

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#143442 - 07/14/06 12:09 AM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
You could always spend the money on acoustic room treatments.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#143443 - 07/14/06 11:18 AM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: SirQuack]
Shugs1037 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 28
Randy,

I have to kindly disagree with you on this one. I too once thought receivers were the be all end all in sound reproduction and that seperates were a waste of money. All until I got to hear my gear through some "seperates" equipment (Pre/Pro and AMP). It's not just watts that matter...it's the voltage gain which produces a lower noise floor and allows better dynamics at both quiet and loud moments in a movie or music track. The end result is a smoother cleaner and more clear sound. I did a blind A/B test using the receiver and then switching to the pre/pro (without knowing which was which) and picked the seperates every time. I used 6 different movies which varied in quality. I had the store rep load each one and not tell me which was active. To my ear there was a very clear difference. Again, this is my ear and my equipment.

I personally am going to buy Outlaw gear as it really gives you the best bang for the buck.

This is all in the ear of the beholder of course....what is nice about Outlaw is you can preview their gear for 30 days and see if you like the sound of it in your room. Let your ears and wallet be the judge.

Good luck!
_________________________
"What's the writing on that treasure chest say...EP600?"

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#143444 - 07/14/06 11:24 AM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: Shugs1037]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Not sure what I said that you would disagree with? If you read my post, I just asked him what was wrong with the HK. It is fact about how HK rates their AVR's. I also mentioned that he could add some Monoblocks, so I don't see what your disagreeing about?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#143445 - 07/14/06 01:41 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: SirQuack]
Shugs1037 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 28
Ooops, sorry bud, I wasn't clear on what I was disagreeing with. I think having an amp and pre/pro power the whole system makes a difference for all the speakers. I really noticed it on my DVD Audio disc of the Eagles Hell Freezes Over. The surround channels became more enveloping and made me feel as if I was there at the concert.

There is no question the HK receivers are good and provide nice solid current. I have owned them for years. In fact, I still have the HK 435 in use until my Outlaw gear gets here.

So, to summarize, I basically disagreed with using just two channels of amplification and the HK (to power the rest) and instead going for the gusto and having all channels powered by an external amp and pre/pro if the funds will allow.

Like I said before, it's all in the ear of the beholder. Some folks may prefer the sound of a receiver and vice versa. This was my own take on the situation.

I didn't mean to upset you or dis you in any way. I'm just expressing my experience with the gear. I know a ton of stuff out there really hypes the reviews and such...I was just validating it with real world application.

Chris
_________________________
"What's the writing on that treasure chest say...EP600?"

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#143446 - 07/14/06 01:57 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: fraink]
biggsly5000 Offline
local

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 205
Loc: Atascocita, TX
I have experienced the DTS problem. Sometimes it will make your speakers sound as if they are blown. They sound really really bad. Usually it starts off OK but everynow and then the sound just goes to sh*t. On the Dolby Digital track it will sound just fine. I need a new receiver but will have to make due with the 300 for now. I never tried using it to power my Axioms. I use a HK signature 2.1 5 channel amp for center and surrounds and a Sunfire 300-2 channel for the M80's. It will play much louder than a person with normal hearing can stand, and do it extremely clean. I do like overkill. At one time I was considering the HK7300 that puts out about 145watts per channel up to 5 channels. The sound and vision lab test was very impressive. In the end I decided to go with seperates. I wish Denon or HK would put out a processor that has all the current formats. I don't need any more amplification.
_________________________
M80ti's, VP150, QS8's

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#143447 - 07/14/06 02:40 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: Shugs1037]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Not a problem Chris, I thought maybe you were addressing JohnK, as he likes to argue the seperates Versus AVR's from time to time.

I would like to go down that path at some point, when funds permit. Would I experience the same feeling you did if I purchased Monoblocks to drive my other speakers, and let the Denon 2805 do the decoding? Or would it be better to get a 7 channel amp/tuner at some point?

Thanks man. By the way, my son likes your Avatar.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#143448 - 07/14/06 04:49 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: SirQuack]
Shugs1037 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 28
It's all good then....sweet!

I love the avatar too...took me a long time to find one I liked!

It's funny you mention doing the Denon and using it as a Pre-Amp....I had pondered doing the same thing with the HK.
You will definitely hear an audible difference from your internal Denon amps and seperate amps even if they are rated at the same power output. You could go that way first and build up to the complete package.

To further improve the overall sound characteristics, a dedicated pre/pro gives you a better signal to Noise ratio and a bunch of other technical advantages because it only has to work on decoding the signal and not amplifiying your speakers too. You can crank it up much, much higher without clipping.
It's not really about being louder but more dynamic and impactful. Honestly, it's hard to describe but trust me there is a difference that is worth the extra cash IMHO.

My opinion is...try out the Outlaw gear (or any other seperates for that matter) to see if you think it is worth it. If you are not pleased you can send it back within 30 days. Even at a dealer demo you are not quite sure how it will sound in your specific room. I did a home demo using Rotel gear and wow, even my fiancee who is generally clueless about this stuff remarked how much better is was. I returned the gear (I know the store manager ) since Rotel was too expensive for me and stumbled into the Outlaw stuff.

You will be shocked at the performance difference....I know the Axioms are great through a receiver...take those babies to a new level!

I'm sorry if I sound like a sales guy...I'm just a boring accountant. But I know great sound when I hear it. Heck, if you are not happy, just send the stuff back.

I know this stuff ain't cheap but it is worth every penny. If the woman in your life sits up and takes notice, that is saying a whole lot!

Chris
_________________________
"What's the writing on that treasure chest say...EP600?"

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#143449 - 07/14/06 08:00 PM Re: Best bang for the buck amp/wattage to push Axioms. [Re: Shugs1037]
jorge016 Offline
local

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Minnesota
Watch EBay's HK site for a refurbed 630 or 635. Good prices and lots of power.
_________________________
M22's, VP150, QS4's, HK 630, HSU VTF3-MKII

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