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#145271 - 08/11/06 06:43 PM 2.1 Setup M22 or M50
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
I am going to order a pair of one of these two speakers to upgrade my 2.1 system. Currently I have Paradigm Mini Monitors and a Rocket UFW-10 sub. The UFW-10 stays, the Mini Monitors are being retired. The new speakers will used just for music. My goals are a smooth ride from about 50Hz on up with a solid mid bass. Detailed highs are fine, highs that are a bit harsh are not. I have read on this forum that some consider the M50s the more laid back speaker in the lineup, which I think is ok by me. The price difference is not the main thing, the SQ is. When I look at the frequency graph of the two the M50 seems the best of the M22 up to about 100Hz, then is seems pretty equal. That being said, graphs are one thing, what you actually hear is another. Listening levels will not be that loud most of the time.

I guess what I am looking for is something to nudge me one way of the other. Thoughts anyone?

Regards, Nick

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#145272 - 08/11/06 08:29 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
The difference between the two happens with the midrange and the extended bass of the M50s. The M22s have the better mids. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in the higher ranges. M3s are out of the question? I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the M3/M50 clan might have the better 'smooth ride music only' speaker vs the M22. But, I bet the M60/M80s is probably the best for both worlds.

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#145273 - 08/11/06 08:38 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
About the only thing I can think of to reccommend the M50 over the M22 is in the area of presence. The M50 will just sound somewhat "bigger" if the room is large enough to require it. We have a moderatly large listening room and our M50s do a great job of filling every cubic foot of it! Our old M3s were somewhat strained when attempting to obtain the same volume levels that the M50s routinely accomplish.

I'll second Bruce on his M60/M80 recomendation on the best over-all suggestion for predominately music listening.


Edited by F107plus5 (08/11/06 08:44 PM)

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#145274 - 08/11/06 09:42 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10379
Nick, welcome. Since you're going to be using the UFW-10, it 's unclear why you've mentioned 50Hz, since presumably you'll want the sub covering 20-30Hz above that. From the mid-bass up my M22s are superb for reproduction of music and of course your sub handles the low bass.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#145275 - 08/12/06 12:41 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: JohnK]
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
Quote:

Nick, welcome. Since you're going to be using the UFW-10, it 's unclear why you've mentioned 50Hz, since presumably you'll want the sub covering 20-30Hz above that. From the mid-bass up my M22s are superb for reproduction of music and of course your sub handles the low bass.




The reason I picked 50Hz is I want a reasonable amount overlap between the UFW-10 and the speakers. An example is that my Paradigm Studio 20s sound much better crossed over at 80Hz than 100Hz in my room. The more overlap, the more choices to get the room acoustics/speaker/sub blend to sound as good as they can. With the example above of the Studio 20s, the improvement SQ with lower crossover is significant.

You mention that the mid base on up is great on the M22. To help me to better understand your post, what frequency range do you consider mid bass?

Regards, Nick


Edited by Nick250 (08/12/06 01:01 AM)

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#145276 - 08/12/06 12:59 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: littleb]
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
Quote:

The difference between the two happens with the midrange and the extended bass of the M50s. The M22s have the better mids. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in the higher ranges. M3s are out of the question? I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the M3/M50 clan might have the better 'smooth ride music only' speaker vs the M22. But, I bet the M60/M80s is probably the best for both worlds.




Interesting comment on the M3. I did not consider it because it's low on the totem pole an automatic price bias kicked in because the others "had to be better" because they cost more. And speaking of price, there seems to be a joint effort to get me to buy the M60s. No doubt great speakers. Price wise though, the $740 of the M50s is at the top of my budget.

Regards, Nick

Nick

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#145277 - 08/12/06 01:11 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10379
Yes, that's what I was implying: that you'd want a crossover around 80Hz rather than 50Hz. That's a perfect crossover for the M22s. The mid-bass I was referring to is roughly the 60-120Hz octave(in-room the M22s are quite strong at 60Hz).
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#145278 - 08/12/06 10:18 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
One of the things I like about the M3s amd M50s is the ability to go against the flow and do "something completely different"!

I have tried and tried and tried to like the sound of my system(M50 mains and M3 center and surrounds)crossed at 80hz. I always go back to 60. Always!! It just works better in my system in my room with my ears.

The M3s are happy at 60, but the M50s absolutely luv it!

......and ME too!
Rich.


pre edit: I should say that my system is as it is due to historical events. If I were to waltz on into this web-site today, I would probably go with v2 M60s with "traditional" Axiom center and surrounds.

.....all the complaints I had about the M60 a few years ago seem to have evaporated. They seem to sound even more like the "pleasant" M50s now!!

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#145279 - 08/12/06 11:44 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: JohnK]
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
Quote:

Yes, that's what I was implying: that you'd want a crossover around 80Hz rather than 50Hz. That's a perfect crossover for the M22s. The mid-bass I was referring to is roughly the 60-120Hz octave(in-room the M22s are quite strong at 60Hz).




Got it John. Thanks for clarifying.

Nick

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#145280 - 08/12/06 11:52 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: F107plus5]
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
Quote:



If I were to waltz on into this web-site today, I would probably go with v2 M60s
.....all the complaints I had about the M60 a few years ago seem to have evaporated. They seem to sound even more like the "pleasant" M50s now!!




Complaints about the M60s? I almost missed this comment. Tell me more if you don't mind.

Nick

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#145281 - 08/12/06 12:27 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Quote:

Quote:



If I were to waltz on into this web-site today, I would probably go with v2 M60s
.....all the complaints I had about the M60 a few years ago seem to have evaporated. They seem to sound even more like the "pleasant" M50s now!!




Complaints about the M60s? I almost missed this comment. Tell me more if you don't mind.

Nick




Yes, Rich, I think you need to educate Nick, further, and in more detail.


Edited by littleb (08/12/06 12:28 PM)

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#145282 - 08/12/06 01:24 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: littleb]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I am appalled at this callous betrayal of the M50 posse. Has your mind been taken over by aliens?

In all seriousness, the M50s are great speakers. So are the M60s. So are the M22s. For sheer presence (and out of the two you're looking at), I'd pick the M50s. I would generally describe them as warmer or fatter than the M22s, with that descriptor applying to the mid-bass to low midrange frequency range.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#145283 - 08/12/06 02:13 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Ken.C]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Yeah; it seems as though things have gotten better in the last year or two in the M60 camp. There used to be lots of comments, about adding resistors to tame the "brightness" and then there was the sibilance, and excess forewardness, and that kind of thing. All those complaints seem to have dried up even before the "v2" was added.

I do suspect by the timing of the release of the new graphs by Ian of the M50 first, followed by the release of the M60 graph later, that the M50s that I'd purchased were of the new v2 variety. It's only conjecture, but I wonder if the M50 was made "flatter," since it varies more from the old M3s 1-2K peaks and valley than I would have expected, and that the M60 was made "flatter" as well in the areas where brightness would have been more of a problem. If that were the case; the M50 and the M60 would have even more of a family resemblance than what they had before. And in fact are even more of a bargan than they were before! My comment about going with M60 today has more to do with matching up even better than the M50s do now with the center and surround speakers that Axiom has every reason to be proud of.

.....now if Axiom would produce a 6.5" bassed set of centers and surrounds!!

Anyway; I do know that to my ears, and in this room, the v2 M50s sound great and I wouldn't abandon my darlings or the M50 posse for a minute!!
Rich.


Edited by F107plus5 (08/12/06 02:31 PM)

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#145284 - 08/12/06 02:39 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: F107plus5]
badassfajita Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 10
Have you listened to any Axioms before? The v3 version of the Studio 20, which you say you have, is much more laid back than the m22. If you want details and more "lively: sound, go with axiom.

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#145285 - 08/13/06 01:27 AM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: badassfajita]
Nick250 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 6
Quote:

Have you listened to any Axioms before? The v3 version of the Studio 20, which you say you have, is much more laid back than the m22. If you want details and more "lively: sound, go with axiom.




This makes me think that the M50 is a better candidate for my tastes. Warmer and fatter as described in a previous post sounds good to me. A little more lively than the Studio 20s (it's v 2 I have BTW) and little less forward than the M22.

Ok, it's official I am looking for a local demo in the greater Boston area. I probably should put this in it's own thread.

And to I want to tell all you folks who responded to my posts, thank you, what I have learned from you has be invaluable. And if there is anything else somebody wants to tell me, fire away!

Nick

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#145286 - 08/13/06 10:58 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: Nick250]
JasonEuc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 30
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
I'll put in my words for the M50's. I've had a pair for about 2 months now, and I absolutely love them. No sub in my system, and for both HT and music, they've completely fulfilled my expectations. I've never heard the M22's (or any of the other Axioms, for that matter), and if you want to do a little "light" reading, I posted my initial experiences about a month ago. Just do a search for "M50", and I'm sure it'll pop up.

Go M50's and join the posse!

- Jason
_________________________
- JasonEuc M50's, CC370, M3's, Rotel RSX-965, Integra DPC 7.5, Harmony 688

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#145287 - 08/14/06 12:40 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: JasonEuc]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Here's an interesting and "Honest to God" coincidence.

Yesterday morning, speaking of "no sub" I was listening to a cable music channel(D-D) and it sounded great. I have my sub in back and the plate amp is mounted by the fireplace rather than on the sub cabinet. I glanced over and noticed the amp light was "red" indicating no signal received.

The low tones were back before the Wifes' NASCAR race came on, so there was no problem.(whew) But I sat there for quite a while listening to light rock oblivious to the fact that my sub wasen't even on!

It was interesting, after the fact!
Rich.

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#145288 - 08/14/06 04:58 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: F107plus5]
hobart Offline
regular

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Spartanburg, SC
I had a similar experience this weekend. I'd been playing my Onkyo in 'direct mode' for a few days just to hear the diffence. I didn't realize that one channel from my CD player was bad ( the cable, that is ). When I switched back to stereo mode, the sub wouldn't play, I expect because one channel's 'info' was missing. I didn't notice that the sub wasn't working until quite a few hours later when I stuck my head behind the chair to 'fiddle' with it. I noticed the red light on the sub's amp was on instead of the usual green. So I'd been listening to the M50s by themselves. I am very pleased with them!

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#145289 - 08/15/06 01:09 PM Re: 2.1 Setup M22 or M50 [Re: hobart]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Quote:

I had a similar experience this weekend. I'd been playing my Onkyo in 'direct mode' for a few days just to hear the diffence. I didn't realize that one channel from my CD player was bad ( the cable, that is ). When I switched back to stereo mode, the sub wouldn't play, I expect because one channel's 'info' was missing. I didn't notice that the sub wasn't working until quite a few hours later when I stuck my head behind the chair to 'fiddle' with it. I noticed the red light on the sub's amp was on instead of the usual green. So I'd been listening to the M50s by themselves. I am very pleased with them!




Interesting! We also have an Onkyo!!

.....so what are the chances: Same weekend, same problem, same receiver company, and same SPEAKERS!!

And I like my M50s too! Cool!
Rich.

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