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#146029 - 08/22/06 03:13 PM Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf
bean Offline
regular

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
I was ready to order my Axioms when I was told you shouldn't use rear ported speakers in a book shelf cabinet?

Any info out there would be appreciated?

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#146030 - 08/22/06 03:44 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
While the rear port is often cited (incorrectly) as the reason, you should not use any speaker in an enclosed area (such as a bookshelf) due to reflections and boundary effects.

However, in real life, compromises must be made, so as long as there's some room around the things, they should be ok.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#146031 - 08/22/06 04:21 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Bean,

You might want to read this, and #9 in this.

These comments apply to all speakers, not just Axioms. Regardless, I well echo Ken's comment that, often, compromises must be made.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#146032 - 08/22/06 05:34 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Can you, yes, would I, no....Bass ports filter low bass out of the ports, I would not want to conceal them in a cabinet.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#146033 - 08/22/06 05:46 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: SirQuack]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I don't know that I would push someone away from Axioms merely based on port placement--like I said, no speaker is going to sound (as) good enclosed like that.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#146034 - 08/22/06 05:51 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I agree with Ken on this, the port is not the most important thing here, it is the other boundries. If you can get the baffle of the speaker out just enough so that it is not enclosed you should do fine. Not the best mind you but your results should be satisfactory.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#146035 - 08/22/06 07:51 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: Wid]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Well, I don't want to start a ruckus or anything, but...

My understanding is that it is ILLEGAL in certain counties to use a ported speaker in a cabinet.

Just another example of the great work our government is doing to protect the masses from themselves. I mean, who KNOWS how horrible our collective audio experience would be if people were allowed to put their own speakers wherever they damn well please, and wherever sounds best to them? Furthermore, I understand that SOME scofflaws actually MOVE their speakers to different locations - even from bookshelves to stands of differing heights - throughout the course of their ownership! Fortunately, there is legislation making it's way through congress right now to ensure that all American speaker installations can only be performed by licensed technicians, and all mounting must be made permanent by chemical or mechanical means sufficient to ensure that moving the speakers after their initial installation will be impossible without dissembling them.



Seriously, ANY speaker is going to sound suboptimal if you put it in a bookcase. Don't worry about the ports. However, if you're going to lay the M22 on its side, too, you might be better off with an upright M2 or M3 instead.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#146036 - 08/22/06 08:34 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I think it depends on the bookcase. If the bookcase is open shelved, or if the space allocated to the speakers is big enough so that there is at least a few inches above or beside the speakers then the rear porting shouldn't make much difference.

If the speaker is being snugged into a closed space roughly the same size as the speaker then rear porting will be much more of a problem.

I second all the other comments that the front boundary effects are at least as important.

You are essentially sliding the speaker into an open box -- unless the fronts of the speakers stick out a bit past the surrounding shelves the resulting sound is going to be... dare I say it... boxy.

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#146037 - 08/22/06 11:24 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bridgman]
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Quote:

the resulting sound is going to be... dare I say it... boxy.




Is that boxy or boxy?

Bren R.

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#146038 - 08/23/06 12:18 AM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: BrenR]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Um... more like the Volvo, I think.

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#146039 - 08/23/06 11:31 AM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
bean Offline
regular

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
Remember I'm just learning all this when I ask this question, but would it be better if I mounted the speakers above the bookcases? This would put them about 8' off the ground ? I know they should be at ear level sitting down but what if they were tilted down?

Also, does it matter also if the sub is inside the bookcase?

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#146040 - 08/23/06 12:09 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Quote:

Remember I'm just learning all this when I ask this question, but would it be better if I mounted the speakers above the bookcases? This would put them about 8' off the ground ? I know they should be at ear level sitting down but what if they were tilted down?

Also, does it matter also if the sub is inside the bookcase?




Bean,

1. Can you post photos of this bookshelf?
2. How small of a sub are you looking for?

3. OT. Katrina have any affects on you or your family?

Bug

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#146041 - 08/23/06 12:10 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
It would be better.

You're going to have the same, if not worse, problems with a sub in a bookshelf.

Heck, depending on the sub, you might not have a bookcase left...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#146042 - 08/23/06 03:08 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: Ken.C]
bean Offline
regular

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
I looking at the HSU VTF-2 MK 2 with a 10" woofer as my sub. So you understand my situation better, the bookcase goes from door frame to door frame on the only wall in the room. The rest of the walls are either windows or have hugh openings in them. This means everything has to either be in or on top of the bookshelf. The room is 22' x 18' with 20' ceilings. Link for photo attached below.

I trying to work around a woman's sense of decor if you know what I mean. If you're married I know you do.

As far as the Katrina Question, my home was about 8 blocks from the 17th Street Canal break. I lost my home and everthing I owed except for my dog and truck. Sounds like a country sound doesn't it?

I'm just finally able to start getting my life back to a new normal after a year and 10 moves.

I appreciate ya'll help!!!

[image]http://ww1.potterybarn.com/cat/pip.cfm?src=shpcfurabssys%7Crshop%2Fshpcfur%7Crshop&pkey=cfurabssys&gids=p4910[/image]

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#146043 - 08/23/06 03:16 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
OK, that's helpful. I'm thinking maybe M3s, put in those side cubbies should be ok. I have no idea where to put the Hsu, though...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#146044 - 08/23/06 03:21 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Here ya go!



What you need to do is right click on the photo itself (if you wish, you may practice on the photo above).

Click "properties" on the menu that appears.

Highlight, then right click the Address (URL) that appears in the Properties box (the address should end with a image file type, e.g., .jpg. gif. .bmp. etc.).

Click "copy" in the menu that appears.

Then paste that address (URL) between the image tags in your post.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#146045 - 08/23/06 03:47 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: Ajax]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
OK, that's not so bad.

I have always had good luck with bookshelf speakers mounted high on the top of a shelf and inverted. Alternatively you could put them in the open space where the projector and reels are now and get pretty good results, although I really like the look you have now.

Dumb question -- there seems to be enough room on the left and right of the shelf to fit M2s or M22s on stands. Am I missing something, ie is this really a picture of Ajax's bookshelf ?


Edited by bridgman (08/23/06 03:47 PM)

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#146046 - 08/23/06 04:06 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bridgman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, that's a picture of Pottery Barn's bookshelf.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#146047 - 08/23/06 04:10 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bridgman]
bean Offline
regular

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
That not a picture from my home but the from the website the bookcase was purchased.

Thanks bridgman for the response.

BEAN

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#146048 - 08/23/06 04:51 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
For that big of a room, I would consider M22s on the ledges at either end of the lower unit with a VP150 under the tv.

M60's at the ends of the unit with a VP150 center would be even better

The sub can go in a corner somewhere in the room, or under an end table, etc.

You need 14 inches for M3s to go on one of the upper shelves, but they should work, specially if you can place them forward on the shelf.

Order some custom samples to see if you can match the cabinet.

OT: I was at Loyola from 72-76 and have been in that area. Sorry about your loss and hope you are recovering well. You said you, the dog and truck got out. I take it the spouse came along in the last year.

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#146049 - 08/25/06 01:16 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bugbitten]
bean Offline
regular

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
I wish I could go with the m60's.I think I'm going to end up mounting the m22 above to the left and right with the center above the Tv. I guess I'm going to have to run the sub to the back of the room behind my couch.

How many wires am I looking at having to run from my reciever to my sub?

Thanks for the note. Not married yet. Don't know if I ever will?

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#146050 - 08/25/06 03:34 PM Re: Can you use rear ported speakers in bookshelf [Re: bean]
dllewel Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: Utah, USA
Quote:

How many wires am I looking at having to run from my reciever to my sub?



You should only need one good quality sub cable. Usually a single shielded 75 ohm cable with RCA ends. You can pick one up very reasonable at monoprice.com.

Click here for their selection.

Alternatively, you can run some RG6 coax, and crimp on RCA ends. Works great.
_________________________
-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/

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