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#14656 - 06/11/06 07:59 PM Re: beer thread **** [Re: Ken.C]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7373
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Ken, send them to me and I will gladly tell you whether they are good or not.
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#14657 - 06/11/06 10:22 PM Re: beer thread [Re: St_PatGuy]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Heh... not a chance, buddy.
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#14658 - 06/11/06 10:27 PM Re: beer thread [Re: Ken.C]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7373
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Rats.
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"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#14659 - 06/12/06 01:20 AM Re: beer thread [Re: sonicfox]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8127
Loc: Tacoma
Mary, I hope that it is a big list
Quote:

Can it get too old to drink?



Absolutely. Unlike good red wines, most beers have a very definite optimal shelf life. Both hops and alcohol act as preservatives, so styles high in one or both are more likely to sustain prolonged storage without negative effects. You are definitely correct to eschew small beers (like Asahi) that are of dubious vintage. Lack of refrigeration is bad. Light is bad. Dust is bad. Many beers have a origination date coded on the label; I'd have hoped the practice was more prevalent by now.

Some beers get better with age, but those are clearly in the minority, and you would have to enjoy the particular effects of the aging (some people like sherry notes, others don't). Generally, beer is better fresher. The Unibroue 2004 is a good example of a beer that will age well under the right conditions; it is relatively high in alcohol and is bottled on lees (there is live yeast in the bottle). Even with those factors, you would still want to ensure that the bottle remained at cellar temperature (50-60 degrees F). Higher temperatures WILL degrade the beer.

Likewise, your observation about the negative effects of light is absolutely correct. Many beers - again, especially those that are light in color, low in hops and low in alcohol - are highly susceptible to being "light struck", which imparts a particular "skunky" aroma and flavor to the beer. That factor is certainly part of the reason why I prefer cans to bottles for those beers made 9,000 miles from home.

The effect is quick and profound. There are several reasons why the traditional German Bier Stein came into being. While some of the factors are likely anecdotal rather than deliberate, they remain valid. To whit, a closed lid on a ceramic vessel accomplishes many things. It not only keeps the beer colder, but also prevents the effect of sunlight, keeps bugs (like yellowjackets) out of the beer, helps maintain carbonation, and prevents leaves and chestnuts (or other detrius) from landing in your precious vessel of suds. It is an altogether ingenious invention. But, my last name has many vowels, so I come from Alsatian bias.

Ken, as long as you keep the Edition 2004 refrigerated, it should last virtually indefinitely. Heat and light are your enemies. If you eliminate them, that is a beer that will perservere nicely.

Brown bottles are better than green which are better than clear. However, none is immune to the effects of light and heat. Though we are conditioned to think otherwise, can technology is really much superior to bottles nowadays due to not only the light factor, but also the ability to negate negative Ph/metallurgic reactions by coating the aluminum with inert plastic materials.

That being said, there is really no substitute for live beer (on draught or on lees). ANY beer that is bottled or canned will change both during the packaging process as well as during storage, most of the time much to their detriment. I vividly recall talking to the brewer at Redhook when he observed that the diatomacious earth filter they used to ensure bottle stability actually filtered the beer so much that it changed the color. Pasteurization and ultra-filtration - in my opinion - rob any beer of its life and character. While necessary for shipment and storage, you pay a significant price in quality. Beer has only four ingredients - water, malt, hops and yeast - and the measures taken to ensure that the yeast is dead-in-the-bottle rob the beer of one of its essential elements.
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#14660 - 06/12/06 01:27 AM Re: beer thread [Re: tomtuttle]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7373
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Tom, you need to go to a local college and teach a class on beer. I'm sure you're waiting list will be rather lengthy.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#14661 - 06/12/06 01:29 AM Re: beer thread [Re: tomtuttle]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10305
Okay Tom, I'm dying to know how dust(I assume that you mean external dust)affects the beer.
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#14662 - 06/12/06 01:33 AM Re: beer thread [Re: St_PatGuy]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8127
Loc: Tacoma
Sean, that's nice of you to say. But there are lots of way beergeekier people than me, for sure.

I know some stuff. However, on a really fundamental level, Brewing Chemistry is a "hard science", and I'm a generalist/humanist. I care more about the people enjoying the beer than what happened to make it Beer.

In homebrewing, it is said that some people are chemists, some people are cooks, some people are engineers, but EVERYBODY is a janitor. I just don't enjoy wearing rubber boots and washing buckets enough to devote more time to beer. I pretty much stopped brewing when I decided I'd rather spend Saturdays with my kids than sanitizing equipment in the garage.

Besides, part-time community college faculty get paid diddley squat.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#14663 - 06/12/06 01:34 AM Re: beer thread [Re: JohnK]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8127
Loc: Tacoma


It doesn't really affect the beer, it's just a bad sign.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#14664 - 06/12/06 01:40 AM Re: beer thread [Re: tomtuttle]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10305
Ah, subtle indeed. A lack of proper loving care, and the passage of time.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#14665 - 06/12/06 01:59 AM Re: beer thread [Re: tomtuttle]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7373
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Yes, the art of brewing beer pales in comparison to the art of enjoying a beer.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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