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#149489 - 10/16/06 02:20 PM Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me?
Robot Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 24
I’m thinking of getting some new front speakers to match my Axiom center and rears, but I want to make sure the fronts will be full range and be able to reproduce SD-DVD and HD-DVD soundtracks accurately.

For example, the AXIOM M80s state:
• Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz): 34 - 22kHz Graph
• Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz): 25 - 22kHz

I was looking at these OTHER SPEAKERS that stated:
• 50Hz - 20kHz

Sorry to be so ignorant, but what’s the difference there?

Thanks
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VP150 / QS8(3) / M60s

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#149490 - 10/16/06 03:12 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Here is a good article, http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/131062.html

I would think even the Axiom bookshelfs would do a better job on the low end than those Best Buy speakers.
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#149491 - 10/16/06 03:18 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Let's see, if you go to the link that you provided, and look at the specs, it has the words "Frequency Response" underlined as a link to the BB Glossary which states:
Quote:

Frequency Response The range of sound capable of being reproduced by an audio or video component, expressed as a deviation in decibels in a frequency range (i.e., 50 Hz-20 kHz, +/-3 dB).

Frequency response represents the unofficial measure of sound quality - the broader the range, the better the sound reproduction.




Does that help? The "Other speakers" don't have the same range as the Axioms you are comparing them too. I won't comment on the quality of the "Other speakers" as I do not feel qualified.

I can say this, the "Other speakers" only use three active 3.5 inch "woofers" and five passive ones (OK...) compared to the larger 5.25 inch (M60) and 6.5 inch (M50 and M60) woofers in the M50 and M60 lines.

You most likely would be fighting different tibre issues by using "other speakers" as well. That is (my brief attempt at describing it) when the tonal qualities of the sound as it moves from one speaker of one brand changes as it moves to another. Your mains would be out of timbre with your Axiom center and surrounds.

Hope that this helps.
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#149492 - 10/16/06 03:26 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: SirQuack]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Quote:

Here is a good article, http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/131062.html
I would think even the Axiom bookshelfs would do a better job on the low end than those Best Buy speakers.





Yeah, but many people are blinded by reviews. Granted, that is what gets the word out about Axioms. For example, one reviewer said that they loved the Athena WS-100 (oops, I mean "Other speakers") but in the end only gave them a 3 out of 5 star rating on performance. However, the reviewer's wife loved the way they looked, so looks must be better than sound??? That's crazy-talk!
Someone with a little more time can compare graphs, and voice first hand experience. Don't get me wrong, the speakers are priced low, but a low price tag on a speaker with that many "woofers" usually means more "show" than "go" in my book. Again, not saying to not consider them, but the freq. response and timbre factors should be more important than price if possible.

(Boy, does it seem so wierd to make some of those statements about low cost since Axioms are low cost, but "cheap does not = inexpensive", and "bargain does not = value")
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#149493 - 10/16/06 03:49 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: nickbuol]
Robot Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 24
OK, here’s a different take. Let’s leave the “other speakers” out of it. If I were to stick with Axiom, why should I get the M80s over the M50s?

The M50s state a range of:
Freq Resp +/-3db (Hz):39 - 22kHz Graph
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz):29 - 22kHz


The M80s state a range of:
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz):34 - 22kHz Graph
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz):25 - 22kHz

What will I be “missing” by not getting the M80s?

Thanks.


Edited by Robot (10/16/06 03:50 PM)
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#149494 - 10/16/06 04:57 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I left off the dimensions, these stats can be found on the product pages.

Specs M50ti / M60ti / M80ti
Enclosure: Dual Vortex / Triple Vortex Reflex / Triple Vortex Reflex
Max Amp Power: 200 Watts / 250 Watts / 400 Watts
Min Amp Power: 10 Watts / 10 Watts / 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz): 39-22kHz / 37-22kHz / 34-22kHz
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz): 29-22kHz / 27-22kHz / 25-22kHz
Impedance (Ohms): 8 Ohms / 8 Ohms / 4 Ohms
SPL in Room1w/1m(db): 93 dB / 93 dB / 95 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(db): 89 dB / 89 dB / 91 dB
X-Over 2.2 kHz / 200 Hz & 2 kHz / 160 Hz & 2.3 kHz
Tweeter: Single 1" / Single 1" / Dual 1"
Woofer: Dual 6.5" / Single 5.25" / Dual 5.25"
Sub Woofer: NONE / Dual 6.5" / Dual 6.5"
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#149495 - 10/16/06 05:16 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Broadly speaking, it means that the M80s can play lower than the M50s. It is not (by any means) the only measurement of a speaker's abilities; it's a broad brush type of thing.

Other considerations are the sensitivity of the speaker (how loud they play at a given wattage--the M80s are more sensitive than the M50s), how much the off axis response varies, what the frequency range looks like.
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#149496 - 10/16/06 05:32 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>What will I be “missing” by not getting the M80s?

Let's talk about the differences which can be described by a frequency response spec first. Since the M50 and the M80 have the same tweeter, the high frequency response is going to be about the same. Low frequency is a different story -- you can see that the M80 extends 4-5 Hz deeper than the M50. Both speakers go sufficiently deep that you won't notice a big difference on most music, but on any music where the low bass is carrying any kind of tune the M80 will go down to lower notes before the volume starts to fall off noticeably.

Having said all that, the biggest differences between M50 and M80 don't show up on the frequency response specs, and some of them are hard to find on the specs at all.

The two main differences are that (a) the M80 uses a dedicated midrange speaker while the M50 does not, and (b) the M80 doubles up the midrange and tweeter, and has a larger cabinet with more port volume.

The dedicated midrange makes for a slightly flatter frequency response in the 1-5 KHz range -- M80 is essentially flat while the M50 has a slight dip in the off-axis response. Since the off-axis sound bounces off the side walls and contributes to what you hear, the result is that sounds in the vocal range sound a bit more "laid back" on the M50 while they are a bit more "up front" (ie a bit louder and sound closer) on the M80. A +/-3dB frequency response spec won't catch this, and a tighter spec would probably show other deviations first. You really need to look at a graph or listen to the speaker to hear this difference.

Secondly, the extra drivers and larger cabinet/ports on the M80 mean that (a) you get a bit more sound for the same amount of power from M80 over M50, and (b) the M80 can handle a lot more power than the M50 without sounding strained. These differences show up in the "sensitivity" and "power handling" specs, although be careful because these specs are mostly useful within a single vendor's products and very hard to compare between vendors.

Impedence also makes a difference but that is really hard to explain so I won't try right now

Bottom line is that the frequency response spec is useful in two ways -- if the response is within 3 decibels (dB) across the range then the speaker is probably reasonably accurate (if the spec doesn't say +/- xxx dB then be suspicious), and the range itself gives you an idea whether you are talking about a bookshelf-type response curve (maybe 60-80 Hz at the bottom) or a seriously full-range speaker which normally has to be larger to give the bass extension. You can, of course, get bookshelf speakers with deeper bass response but generally they give up something else in exchange, typically power handling or sensitivity.

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#149497 - 10/16/06 06:40 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: bridgman]
Robot Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 24
Thanks all! I think I'm gonna shoot for the middle and get the M60s. They should play nice with my VP150 and QS8s.
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VP150 / QS8(3) / M60s

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#149498 - 10/16/06 06:43 PM Re: Can Someone Explain Frequency Range To Me? [Re: Robot]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Here is a thread where Ian covers this.
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