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#152252 - 11/30/06 11:29 AM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I wonder how the EP 500 would do in a comprison with the Hsu VTF 3 Ho ?
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#152253 - 11/30/06 11:39 AM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: PeterChenoweth]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Hi Pete,

A couple of observations from someone who has heard neither model -

1. The tube subs seem to have a reputation for being somewhat less musical than box subs. Likewise, I think the large size of the overall form factor might surprise you. The cylinder sub design philosophy seems to center around an enclosure that is efficient both in production as well as footprint. They go low, but people I trust (including chesseroo) have commented that they don't seem quite as fast as comparably priced boxes.

2. The EP500 and EP600 have VERY sophisticated digital amps that allow them to work collaboratively with the driver instead of those two processes being simply sequential.

3. Driver engineering still matters or SVS would not offer three different price points. Axiom is an R&D company, so I have no doubt that the EP series drivers do what they are supposed to do.

All that being said, my opinion remains that the current pricing on the STF-3 makes it too good to pass up. That would be a very noticable upgrade to your current sub, and either of the QS models would be a noticable upgrade to your current surrounds. I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think everybody will get the same amount of value by spending significantly more just to avoid upgradeitis. Not everybody has M80 envy.
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#152254 - 11/30/06 11:40 AM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: Wid]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Rick, I think that thing is terminally fugly.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#152255 - 11/30/06 11:46 AM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: tomtuttle]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Take the turbo off and it looks like every other black box. I like the way the turbo looks.

Quote:

All that being said, my opinion remains that the current pricing on the STF-3 makes it too good to pass up. That would be a very noticable upgrade to your current sub, and either of the QS models would be a noticable upgrade to your current surrounds. I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think everybody will get the same amount of value by spending significantly more just to avoid upgradeitis. Not everybody has M80 envy.





I agree with Tom on this one, except for the last part


Edited by wid (11/30/06 12:06 PM)
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#152256 - 11/30/06 12:00 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: Wid]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17766
Loc: NoVA
Sorry, gotta agree with Tom here.
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#152257 - 11/30/06 03:22 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
That HO looks like it's been beat with the ugly stick one too many times.




(that just sounds wrong, doesn't it?)
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#152258 - 11/30/06 04:42 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: PeterChenoweth]
JasonB Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 105
Loc: St. Albert, AB
Tom seems to have covered the technical differences, and in a much better way that I could have. Another difference you may be concerned about it how efficient these subs are. The EP350 has a 200W amp, but it draws nearly 500W from the wall at max output (so its about 50% efficient). The EP500 on the other hand is about 90% efficient, so it should only draw about 550W from the wall at max output. The EP500 also has a dynamic power supply, so when little/no sound is coming out, there is very little power draw from the wall. Since I'm disabling the stand-by on one or the other, this is an issue for me since the EP350 will draw a lot more power then the EP500 when its sitting idle.

As far as sound goes, the EP350 works excellent with the rest of my setup. I haven't heard many fancy subs, but this is definately supperior to anything else I've heard. I just watched Star Wars II a couple days ago, and . It was shaking everything in my room with no signs of distortion at all. For music, its very accurate and clean. If you've ever heard "Dragonforce", their uber-fast double bass drum was still separated (if you want to hear a little from them, stop by www.pandora.com and put "dragonforce" into the search). It may have been blurring them together just a little bit, but this was amazingly small compared to my old crappy sub which just tied them all together into one solid rumble.

As for response, it seems to emphasize the lower bass to some degree, but its most likely due to my small and oddly shaped room. When I tested it, I found that it drops off fairly quickly below 28Hz. I didn't create an FR curve, but it sounds fairly consistent from ~28 up to and above the crossover. There is no sign that the crossover even occurs, it blends seamlessly.

As for stereo between the M22's and EP350, its works just as good as for surround music and movies. It sounds very realistic and accurate.

My reasons for upgrading:
1) Less heat/power with the stand-by disabled in the EP500 then with the EP350.
2) EP500 allows me to avoid upgraditis for a long time, until I break it.
3) I can't break it since the DSP limits the max output to the driver.
4) I don't know what size of room it will end up in when I move out, but it should fill it with bass no problem.
5) Those room adjustments would be nice to have.
6) It plays quite a bit lower and louder then the EP350
7) Every review and forum member who's commented on the two say that there is a huge improvement between the two. Its been explained in many ways, so I'd suggest reading some reviews on it rather then me trying to relay what they said.
_________________________
____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960

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#152259 - 11/30/06 04:54 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: JasonB]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Wow, good stuff guys. Special thanks to Tom and Jason for their detailed advice.

While the STF-3 is a great deal, I'm a little put-off by the fact that they don't appear to have a 30-day money back guarantee. The VTF's do, but there's no mention of it with the STF's. I'm not going to buy unheard speakers over the 'net without a return policy, no matter how well reviewed or cheap. That, and the fact that the HSU subs are made in China means I'd much rather support Axiom or SVS. But I digress....

I'm still on the fence about this, but I'm leaning more towards doing the Sub+Surrounds option, as my existing sub is the oldest item in my HT system and really ought to be replaced.

Thanks all!


Edited by PeterChenoweth (11/30/06 04:55 PM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#152260 - 11/30/06 05:14 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
All of the Hsu products are covered by a 30 day risk free trail.

Being put off about "Made in China" is a legit reason, I guess. I hope your don't take you Axioms a part and discover " Made in China " on the drivers
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#152261 - 11/30/06 05:30 PM Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M [Re: Wid]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I didn't see that on Hsu's site that they all have a 30 day warranty. I see it now on the Customer Service page, so I stand corrected. I was going on the fact that the VTF has the 30 day guarantee in big bold print, while the STF doesn't mention it. My mistake & appologies.

I realize that the components used by Axiom are made in China (what isn't these days?), but at least the cabinets and such are *assembeled* in Canada. A slightly lower percentage of my money is going to China. Still, my biggest complaint was the lack of 30-day policy, and I was wrong about that. I can't say that the STF-3 deal isn't tempting...

Quote:

All of the Hsu products are covered by a 30 day risk free trail.

Being put off about "Made in China" is a legit reason, I guess. I hope your don't take you Axioms a part and discover " Made in China " on the drivers





Edited by PeterChenoweth (11/30/06 05:37 PM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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