Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M22s or M60s?

Hi, folks,

After many hours of reading, I have been persuaded to try Axioms for my new home theater.

I posted two "drawings" I need you to look at:
http://www.geocities.com/menoclu/

1. viewing/listening will be 60% 5.1 movies and 40% 2-channel music (jazz, funk, instrumental).
2. my room is 13.5W x 16L x 8H for a total of 1728 cubic feet.
3. There is carpet on the floor. As I sit in the home theater, there are two arched-top windows on the right covered with curtains. Front and left wall are clean, even though we may build bookshelves on the front wall, which will come in 1.5' or so. There is a large arched opening on the back wall behind me over my left shoulder as I sit in the home theater.
4. the display will be a 42-47" flat panel.

I want the M60s. Are they too big for the room?
Will I be better off with the M22s?
Given my room layout, where shold I place my surrounds? You won't see them "drawn' since I don't know where I'd put them. For the left surround to be on the back wall, it'd have to be high towards the corner, because of the arched opening.

Thanks a bunch,
Rodney

Rodney, welcome. My view would be that the M22s, supported by a good sub, would certainly be enough for that size room, but since you really want the M60s, no problem would exist with them. It looks like you'd be sitting about 8' away from them, which should be far enough for the drivers to "blend". You'd be too far from the back wall to put the surrounds(which are side surrounds)there. About 6' up at the front edge of the window farther back, with the other directly opposite on the open wall, should be fine.

Hi Rodney, and welcome.

Basically, I'm just going to echo what John said by sharing my experience. I had M22s paired with a subwoofer in a similarly sized room, and sat about 8 feet from them. They were certainly adequate, but I felt something was missing in the upper bass/lower midrange area (in all likelihood due to less than optimal speaker placement or incorrect receiver settings on my part, and YMMV). I exchanged the M22s for M60s, and was completely satisfied with the results. They were certainly not "too big for the room."

I think one common error folks make, or are forced to make due to physical limitations of their rooms (my situation ), is not giving their speakers enough space. Speakers should be influenced, as little as possible, by nearby surfaces, because the reflected sound from nearby surfaces can negatively affect the sound of the speakers. If you'll look at BrotherBob's disgustingly gorgeous room below (OK, so I'm very jealous ), you'll see his M80s have a good deal of space around them.



Ideally, bookshelf speakers will not be placed on bookshelves, but rather on stands in an open area. You'll note that the top plate of most speaker stands is actually smaller than the footprint of the speaker itself, thus eliminating any possibility of reflections from the top plate.



I agree completely with John's suggestion for surround placement. The optimal placement for the QS surrounds, IMHO, is slightly to the rear of the seating area, so place the right surround in the space between the windows as close to the rear-most window as you deem aesthetically acceptable, and from 1 to 3 feet above your ears. And, place the left surround directly across the room from it at the same height.

I agree with Jack. If you have room for the towers, and the WAF is not an issue, I would suggest them for the 40% of the time your not using them for HT.

Guys,

I can't believe I already had three quality replies this morning. Thank you all very much. Many times in forums people reply, but the replies don't eally address the issues/questions.

Well, M60s they will be.

I will take exact measurements as to the width and location of the windows and back opening and post later.

Thanks again,
Rodney

P.S. Indeed, BrotherBob's ht room is wonderful.

You will love your 60's.

You *did* get some good answers there, not sure if I can add much. Your room size is fine for either M22s or M60s, although with the M60s you'll probably want to "use more of the room" than you would need with M22s.

To that end, I might suggest you move the seating position a couple of feet closer to the back wall, move the TV and front speakers further into the room as well, and position the surrounds just BEHIND the second window rather than between the windows.

If you are thinking of building bookshelves on the front wall you would probably have to do this anyways. If it were my room my first thought would be to leave walking space between TV and bookshelves, rather than putting the TV on the shelves.

Something like this :

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2873960110048161985HqMfIo

For some reason I can't upload to my normal web hosting area so you're gonna have to click on the link.

Moving the seating position away from the midpoint of the room will also give you more options for subwoofer placement.

Rodney:
I setup my HT recently in my basement. ( 16 ft X 40 ft). QS8 Surrounds mounted 25 ft away from the fronts (M22ti's) on the side of the wall (about 3 ft behind the couch and a foot above the couch).
The center is VP 150 & sub is the Axiom 350.
In any case have this setup for just over a month, and am very happy. Of course, havent heard the M60's, so wouldnt be able to compare, but havent found the M22's wanting as far as sound. Trying to put pictures on the board, but havent figured that one out yet.
Hope that helps...

Heres trying to get the pictures up..
[image]C:\Nataraju\TEMP\home theatre pictures\DSCN0387.jpg[/image]
[image]C:\Nataraju\TEMP\home theatre pictures\DSCN0388.jpg[/image]
[image]C:\Nataraju\TEMP\home theatre pictures\DSCN0389.jpg[/image]

Raj, to post your pictures you need to use a free service like photobucket.

Wow! Great suggestions. Thank you all so much.

Bridgman, thanks for taking the time to even illustrate it.

Amazing how nobody knows me, but so many are putting in their time to help me.

Wife wants bookshelves. I couldn't care less for shelves, but after they are up, MY speakers go where I want them. So the advice to move the watching position and surrounds backwards will be heeded.

Axiom forum folk are awesome! Let's hope the Axiom speakers will be awesome.

Regards,
Rodney

Raj,

First of all, you need to use the "img" tag. Secondly, we have no way to view your c: drive. As homedad stated, you need to upload your pictures to a service we would have access to, unless you have a website.

OK, folks,

I am back after long discussions with you know whom and more measuring.

She wants "built-in" bookshelves. Long story short, my 16' long room became more like 14'. We have to put my components inside the bookshelves, and the amp I want is 19" deep. So she's building a (dry)wall 2' in front of the old wall, and "cutting" the (dry)wall for the bookshelves, flat panel AND fireplace! How I'm gonna hang the flat panel on drywall remains to be determined.

So my question is: how far can I sit from the M60s for good sound? From what I read, I don't want them inside the bookshelves, and I also want some room around them. If I place them 1' in front of the bookshelves and add their 15" depth, the front grill is now at 11.75' from the back wall...

What do I do? My budget allows for the M60s, I want the M60s, but now that my room has gotten smaller, should I go with the M22s?

Please provide ideas, corrections on my thinking (like "who says you can't ....").

Also, is it ok for the display to be a foot or two behind the fronts? From the image on the main axiom.com page, I would think yes.

The new measurements: on the right wall with the 2 windows: from the back wall to the back window: 28". Both windows are 53" in width. Between windows: 32". Second window to front wall as it is right now: 28".

Thank you lots,
Rodney

Either type of speaker would be great.

I think the M22s with stands, will have about the same "footprint" as M60s, and likely similar placement requirements..........so, it seems to me...M60s.

I have been back from my M60s: 7 1/2' to 13'..both were/are fine..(just a little toe-in adjustment).

Since space is an issue, have you considered the Architecture series, like the W22's. W150, etc. Not sure if this would be an option as it sounds your in the middle of construction.

I don't think you would have to have the m60's a foot from the wall, many people have great success in the 4-6" range. You can always slightly toe in the 60's towards the listening position.

The 22's are great also, especially when matched with a sub.

Randy

Thanks, guys.

I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the 350 subwoofer with the package for $678. Given my room size (1728 SqFt with a big opening on back wall), would I be able to get away with the 175 and still have good bass for action movies?

Or how about SVS and HSU?

Thank you,
Rodney

HSU seems to have the best values in the $600 and under range. I am sure Wid will be here to close the deal shortly

You could certainly save money and not suffer any performance with going with another choice in subs.

Wid and all,

I talked to a speaker manufacturer and the guy said you'll need a big sub because the big opening in the back. We may put a thick curtain over it, but I don't think we'll make a door for it... Is there really no hope for good bass unless I buy something big and expensive? What would you do?

Thank you,
Rodney

I don't know what you have as a budget but the Hsu VTF 2.3 is not all that much and would work quite well in your size room.

Wid,

Do yo mean the HSU VTF-2 MK 3?

Thanks,
Rodney

That's the one.

Hi, all,

Yes, still asking questions.

Is the fact that the QS8s are "quadpolar" bad for a room like mine with an opening on the back wall? A salesman trying to sell me his speakers said "you want the surrounds to be directed at your listening position. Bipolar is not the way to go..."

Thanks,
Rodney

Get the QS's, my room is open at the end and it still sounds great, better in fact than the directionals I had before.

Thank you guys. QS8s it is.

Rodney

Thanks to all.

I placed an order for two M22s, a VP150 and 2 QS8s.

Regards,
Rodney

Congrats on the speakers, have you decided on a sub?

Nevermind I looked at your other thread. Your going to love the sub