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#161441 - 03/13/07 04:09 PM A/C Line Conditioner
agentfox1942 Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Hagerstown, Maryland
Has anyone used/purchased AC voltage line conditioners? I was reading SIRQUACK's thread on hum and static and was wondering if that would help. ( I didn't read the whole thing, honeslty). I've been looking at the APC H15. At $450 it seems like a great investment for expensive equipment. And I run an APC on my computer with monitoring software and I can't believe all the spikes and brown-outs in a 24 hour period. Thanks
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M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub

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#161442 - 03/13/07 04:27 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: agentfox1942]
SkiTaos Offline
buff

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 41
I have had a Panamax line conditioner for the past eight years and it has done its job. Another source of static/hiss is low end speaker/interconnects. check your connections first and then look at your cables. I'm telling you to spend hundreds of dollars on cables. Go to monoprice if that works for you. I myself, would go no cheaper than Kimber Kable. With Monster cable you are paying for the name/marketing mostly. It's up to you. Like many in this forum (possibly you) have made up their mind that a two dollar interconnect is the same as a $2000 interconnect.

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#161443 - 03/13/07 04:35 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: agentfox1942]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I recently purchased my first dedicated amplifier and decided that my cheap $15 surge protector probably would melt if I ran the amp from it too. So I started looking into better power protection for my whole system and stumbled across a Belkin PureAV PF60 'Power Console' from eCost for $144. I was going to purchase a $70ish Moster Power surge protector from the local big box electronics store, so $144 wasn't really much of a stretch. MSRP on this thing is $599, so I couldn't resist that deal.

I really, really like it. Not only does it look cool (I'm a geek), but it does seem to provide some benefits. Some people say that a line conditioner is a waste of money, and they do nothing. I have experienced real, positive results in my system that they do. First of all, I live in an old house (c 1910). Most of the wiring was redone in the 90's, but there are still a few weird runs of ancient power lines. I also live in the rural midwest with a power company whos credit rating was just demoted to 'junk' today. Needless to say, if anyone's a candidate for 'dirty' power, I am. After I plugged everything into the PF60, I immediately noticed a few things. First of all, I had to re-adjust my TV settings. No, it didn't lose them because I had unplugged the TV, I mean the brightness and contrast settings needed to be changed. The TV was brighter after the PF60, and I swear the picture quality is slightly better (subjective, of course). Audio wise, I was having some static-like clicking/ticking from my Dish Network DVR when using the optical digital output from time to time. I tried several different cables with no effect. That ticking significantly decreased after the PF60 and is really all but gone.

I could be tempted to say that sound is more open and airy, but that's so completely and totally subjective that I can't really say that it is. During a power 'event', such as when my wife fires up a hair dryer, or she was using the microwave, or my neighbor's central air kicks in (our power lines run to the same transformer on the street....), I would occasionally hear a small 'pop' in my system. Doesn't do that anymore. Dead quiet, always.

I do know one thing for sure: during the day my power sits at about 124v and at night rises to about 128v, but varies down to 116v. I am happier knowing that my equipment is being fed slightly cleaner, slightly more regulated power.


Edited by PeterChenoweth (03/13/07 04:51 PM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161444 - 03/13/07 06:30 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: PeterChenoweth]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13321
Loc: Iowa
This is a hot debate, like speaker break-in. Many will tell you that it is a snake oil gimmick, I don't totally buy that 100%. I have a Tripplite surge/isolated ac banks conditioner that everything is running through. It has a very high surge protection, and with the isolated banks seems to help. It also includes voltage and amperage readings so you can tell at a quick glance the status of your environment.

Works for me.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#161445 - 03/13/07 08:27 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: agentfox1942]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Why stop with the HT equipment? They do make nice versions that will do the entire house and are genereally about the same price. They connect to the main feed at the box. A little harder to install than plugging in, but if you have dirty power, then you have lots of other things plugged in that could benefit.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#161446 - 03/13/07 11:35 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Can you refer me to a power conditioner that I can install at the service entrance? I have high frequency noise on my incoming AC. If I place my SPL meter by a power receptacle, it reads 95 dB. If I turn on the lights, it reads 85 dB. With the power off, my readings go down to a reasonable 40 dB. I have to calibrate my speakers with the lights off! I need a solution to this because the utility is not helping me.

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#161447 - 03/14/07 12:17 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
This is a ridiculous thread. Try a search (in these forums) and listen to the tested experience from pros not shy to publish their results or scientifcally challenge those empty claims of others (too many true pros to count in this category but Axiom is one, OToole at Harmon is another).

Power conditioners do nothing for an audio signal. The power from your wall socket is controlled as it enters the power interface components of the amp section. Your tests of listening to a wall socket with a SPL meter are...umm...very amateuristic in attempting to determine factors that affect audio quality. My fluorescent lights hum but you think if they hum louder the light will be of less quality?

A UPS should help you somewhat with brownouts, but only that you can turn off your equipment before the UPS runs out of gas once a brownout occurs.
If you want to buy a 'power conditioner' then at least use one of three true reasons:
1) it acts as an expensive power surge bar
2) it has neat dials so you can watch power usage
3) you want your system to look uber kewl (the BrenR version of description)

Let's quit spreading the myths here people. If a newbie is sold on spending useless money, so be it, but put the right reasons out there, not the fake science nonsense. Home listening tests are useless unless done in a very controlled manner which virtually none take the time to setup properly.
Breaks my heart to see tidbits of science information annihilated by the masses in audio.


Edited by chesseroo (03/14/07 12:26 AM)
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#161448 - 03/14/07 04:53 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: agentfox1942]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Mark, if you're referring to your audio equipment, no additional "line conditioner" should be necessary. The power supply sections of the units have transformers, rectifiers and filter capacitors which supply clean DC for operation, and the fluctuations which you mention are handled routinely. The AC which comes out of the wall socket isn't what winds up getting used. $450, or anything beyond $20-$30 for a surge protector strikes me as a waste of money.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#161449 - 03/14/07 08:26 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: JohnK]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Interesting contrast. Two people saying the same thing, yet one is able to say it without implying your point of view is ridiculous, you are amateurish, and you are spewing nonsense.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161450 - 03/14/07 08:42 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: JohnK]
agentfox1942 Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Hagerstown, Maryland
Thanks for all the input. I was more or less looking at protection for the equipment. $20 surge protectors that I know of can't handle the joules produced by even a small surge. We had a squirrel commit suicide by steping across the poles of a transformer and my neighbor lost his Sony power supply and his A/V receiver. I know - it could be anything along the way from poor grounding in the house to cheap equipment that caused it. But something like APC or Belkin would have paid to replace it if the surge wasn't stopped. I just thought four grand for a TV and 1500 for a receiver is a lot to skimp on a surge protection. Cables are important too. I am NOT one of those that think $2 interconnect is the same as a $1000 one like SkiTaos states. I know line stabilizers (like I like to call them) do make a difference in computers and other electronic devices. Not in the sound, but in the equipment.
_________________________
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub

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#161451 - 03/14/07 08:43 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
agentfox1942 Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Hagerstown, Maryland
Thanks, Ajax. I felt that way too.
_________________________
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub

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#161452 - 03/14/07 08:55 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Thanks goodness we get to share the internet with you during your 'old sage' years, Jack.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161453 - 03/14/07 09:08 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Axiom Forum Rules
#1: Do not discuss speaker cable.
#2: Do not discuss interconnects.
#3. Do not discuss AC line conditioners.
<-- Note the smirk, it's a joke people!

I don't agree with the post about requiring supremely expensive cables as I'm quite happy with my belden & canare wiring from Blue Jeans. I'd say that so long as a cable/interconnect is solidly constructed, you're going to get 99% of the performance of I-could-have-bought-a-motorcycle priced cables. If you're an audio '1%er', then maybe that's important to you. It isn't to me. But this is off topic, so I'll leave my opinion at that.

I will stand up and say that, at least for me, the line conditioner does provide some benefits other than being an expensive surge protector & having a spiffy display. It's pretty simple to plug my DVR into the wall and hear an occasional moderately annoying tick-tick-tick noise in the dolby digital stream, and for that noise to almost completely vanish when plugged into the PF60. I'm not making it up, it's not subtle, and no other variables have changed in the audio-electric topology of my home theater system. I wouldn't disagree a bit that something could be wrong with the DVR that the PF60 is somehow covering up, but the fact remains that the PF60 IS doing something positive other than adding another 40 pounds to my already stressed out AV rack. Would I have paid $600 for it? Absolutely not. But at the (IMHO) good price that I found mine for, I'm happy.

I would never tell someone asking, 'what do I need for a good system,' that a power condition is absolutely required. It isn't. But I will describe my positive experience to someone asking if an AC line conditioner would help them, as the OP has done.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161454 - 03/14/07 10:06 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Regarding chesseroo's last post, I am not saying that the noise that is entering through my service entrance is affecting sound quality. However, there is so much noise that is radiating out from my receptacles and lights that I can't calibrate my channels unless I turn my lights off. For example, the autocalibration feature on my Denon sets all channels to +12dB. With the lights off (incandescent by the way), the Denon sets them all to within a few dB of zero. If I hold my SPL meter at waist level with all of my lights on, it reads 85dB. If I hover next to a receptacle, it reads 95 dB. If I turn my lights off, I go down to about 45 dB. If I shut off the circuit to the receptacle I just measured, the meter reads about 45 dB. The problem is so bad that I can trace my house-wiring in my wall with the SPL meter! I can't hear this noise because it is above my hearing threshold but I am sure it somewhere between 20KHz to 30 KHz (otherwise I am sure my meter wouldn't detect it). And by the way, my neighbor to the east has the same problem but my neighbor to the west does not. The utility does not doubt me. They believed the problem could be due to a cracked insulator however that turned out to not be the case. And they are ill-equipped and trained to tackle these kinds of problems as an engineer at the utility confided in me. So I am asking again. If anyone knows of a company that sells power line filters that I can install at the service entrance, I'd sure like to look into them. Thanks.

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#161455 - 03/14/07 10:29 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Wow Mojo, that sounds like a much more serious problem! I'm not an electical engineer, so I can't even understand how the receptacle and the power lines themselves would be generating a detectable sound on their own. That's crazy! I've heard transformers humming, but never lines and outlets!! If the noise changes when you turn your lights on and off, could it be a problem with the light switch?

I would have to say that your best course of action would be to call an electrician, as a cracked insulator or a switch that's going bad could cause much larger problems than your system not being able to calibrate itself!
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161456 - 03/14/07 10:33 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
Amen to that. That's simply not right.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#161457 - 03/14/07 11:34 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Here you go link

Here is another one. link


Edited by jakewash (03/14/07 11:41 AM)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#161458 - 03/14/07 11:50 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Thanks jakewash. I will look into the products that these companies offer. Unfortunately it's not a surge suppressor that I need but rather a line filter or conditioner of some kind.

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#161459 - 03/14/07 04:41 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
Quote:

If I hover next to a receptacle, it reads 95 dB. If I turn my lights off, I go down to about 45 dB. If I shut off the circuit to the receptacle I just measured, the meter reads about 45 dB. The problem is so bad that I can trace my house-wiring in my wall with the SPL meter!



Mojo that is certainly an odd problem (and somewhat scary). I'm not sure the sound is in that range though as the Radio Shack SPL meters do not register that high a frequency. With C weighting my owners' manual states 32hz to 10,000 for the RS meter.

Jack, leave your "how to be a holier than thou forum P.C. spokesman" comments for people that will actually listen. I've posted here too long to be interested.
There's a ton of posters over at AVS that could use your help though.


Edited by chesseroo (03/14/07 04:43 PM)

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#161460 - 03/14/07 04:43 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
I own Belkin PureAV PF60 too. Very happy with the looks. It is also good in terms of peace of mind since i know that all my expensive stuff is properly (I hope) protected from surges.

I can tell you guys at least one accasion when my power conditioner helped me: I had a terrible hum at my old place coming from the cablebox, which disappeared once I run the cables through the PF60. Usefull, isn't it!! Yet, I did not notice any improvement video or audio wise.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#161461 - 03/14/07 04:54 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
Hey Shawn, you got any of that popcorn left?
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#161462 - 03/14/07 04:56 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: thyname]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
thyname,
I had an awful analog cable connection which cleared up nicely after turning on my vcr. Something in the vcr unit really helped clarify the video signal. If i had any thoughts about buying a line conditioner years ago, that is likely what i would have been looking for.
I've read the odd similar report about sound clarification but coming from cable feeds as you describe. This seems to be rare. I would start by complaining to the service provider, not that they ever do much of anything and tend to blame the results on the x number of other electronics you have in your house or area.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#161463 - 03/14/07 04:57 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ken.C]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
Quote:

Hey Shawn, you got any of that popcorn left?




Ken, i have the butter and the pot for you to stir it all in.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#161464 - 03/14/07 05:12 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
My meter is a Galaxy Audio CM-130 (no Radio Shacks where I live) which can be found at this link web page. Although the specification says 8 KHz max, I have "tested" up to 20 KHz with a test CD with no loss in performance.

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#161465 - 03/14/07 05:23 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Mojo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
If your computer speakers are of REALLY good quality, you can use test tone generators to figure out its limits.
I have not actually tested my Radio Shack meter yet to see what it does at higher frequencies though i imagine this has been posted all over the web by now somewhere.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#161466 - 03/14/07 05:32 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Oh Oh! I must've struck a nerve. Truth'll do that.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161467 - 03/14/07 06:15 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
Quote:

Truth'll do that



Actually it was your general ignorance. But hey, don't let me knock you off your holy pedestal. Last time i told you how to say something you freaked out.
I'm not one to point out hypocrisy but at least i don't forget it.
Preach away!
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#161468 - 03/14/07 07:35 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
LOL! Ignorance of what, exactly? All I did in my initial post was point out facts. It is a fact that there were two posts that said basically the same thing. It is a fact that only one of them referred to others and/or their posts with pejorative terms like "ridiculous," "amateurish," and "nonsense." I suppose one could argue that the contrast between those two posts isn't interesting, but I found it so, and am free to say so. The fact that you feel it necessary to refer to statements of fact as "preaching" and respond with insults and condescension rather than facts belies your avowed commitment to accuracy. Pity. You have so much to offer.

I would refer you to a post by another forum member made nearly 3 years ago. Regrettably, it appears little has changed in all that time.

"Chess, I completely agree with you. It's frightening how little the general population knows about science and how it works. The fact is, no matter how much anecdotal or personal evidence you have in support of audio phenomenon X (be it break-in, differences btw. cables, SS amplifiers sounding different, etc.), you cannot trust it until it's been tested in a controlled environment. This is a basic tenet of science. Even scientists have personal biases. This is precisely why double-blind tests are so often used.

Now, cheese-toast (please forgive me ), being the most vocal (and likely the most qualified -- especially after sushi's departure) representative of the scientific community on this board, your responsibility is greater than you might imagine. To many here, you are the only real-world scientist they've ever had a conversation with. That role comes with a great burden, of which I'm sure you're aware.

Stomping all over someone's current belief system is no way to show them the error of their ways. I admire you for holding the torch of logic, methodology, and reason, but try to keep it held high. It's very tempting to swing it around and fling embers about, but burned people hold grudges.
"
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161469 - 03/14/07 08:05 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
zhimbo Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Hanover, New Hampshire
As I step out of lurk-mode, Jack, let me thank you for sharing that post. I participate in lots of discussion boards where such a post is relevant.

Indeed, it may be relevant to nearly ALL discussion boards.

It *IS* awfully tempting to swing that torch around sometimes.

-Jim

P.S. Back to lurking...

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#161470 - 03/14/07 08:24 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: chesseroo]
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
I did complain to the cable provider, and they only offered to change the box, I did (I had to drive all the way there) and no changes. Needless to say, I localized the hum coming from the cable box, through the TV set. I even posted it here with many good suggestions. I felt good I could solve the problem with what I had at that time (PF60) rather than buying something else, by simply running the cable through PF60 - and I mean the coaxial cable, NOT the power cord.

One more thing: I moved to my new condo last August, and took the cable box with me. I run directly to the TV, without any hookup to PF60, and guess what?! No hum!! I guess it was comething with cable wiring at that old building.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#161471 - 03/14/07 08:36 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: zhimbo]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I agree, Jim. Peter's perspicacity was palpably prominent and praiseworthy.

(Peter, is the author the post quoted above)

Quote:

As I step out of lurk-mode, Jack, let me thank you for sharing that post. I participate in lots of discussion boards where such a post is relevant.

Indeed, it may be relevant to nearly ALL discussion boards.

It *IS* awfully tempting to swing that torch around sometimes.

-Jim

P.S. Back to lurking...




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#161472 - 03/14/07 09:10 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Just to make my personal practice in this area clear, I've never used even a simple surge suppressor. As I've related in the past(much to Jack's amusement), if a lightning strike should destroy my audio equipment, I'd view it as simply being God's way of telling me that it's time to upgrade. I do however take the precaution of bringing home holy water after Mass every Sunday and sprinkling the components. This has apparently worked perfectly and has allowed me to resist the line conditioner rip-off.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#161473 - 03/14/07 09:30 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: JohnK]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Quote:

if a lightning strike should destroy my audio equipment, I'd view it as simply being God's way of telling me that it's time to upgrade.




Good one, John!

_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#161474 - 03/14/07 09:48 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: JohnK]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I would say it is much to Jack's delightful amusement. I think it's a great line and have quoted it many times.

Just to make my position clear, I don't consider a line conditioner a rip-off if, as Chess pointed out, it is purchased for the right reasons.

I have never claimed, and never will, that my PF60 "conditions" my electricity or makes my system sound better. I neither know nor care if it does. That's not why I made my purchase. On the other hand, it has given me a large number of inputs (which I need); it allows me to remotely turn on any or all of the inputs, and delay any or all if, that is desired; it provides me a modest level of peace of mind because of the alleged surge protection for my expensive equipment (I am a man of modest means and would be hard-pressed to "upgrade" my equipment); and its looks please me. To me, all are valid reasons for my purchase, and I don't feel ripped off in the least. YMMV

Nor do I mind that John disagrees with me, and I hope he does not mind if I, occasionally, disagree with him. My liking and respect for him is not based upon how much he agrees with me. It's based on the fact that he's a Brown's fan, which, these days, is a brave and courageous thing (as an Ohio State alumnus, I graciously overlook that fact that he is an alumnus of..........that school up North).
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161475 - 03/14/07 09:54 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I tried a line conditioner once, but it only gave my equipment a healthy shine and got rid of my cables' split ends.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161476 - 03/14/07 09:56 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Indeed; and since I don't have to spend time worrying about upgrading I can pay attention to more meaningful matters, such as will we use or trade down with the 3rd draft pick.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#161477 - 03/14/07 10:24 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 836
Loc: Illinois.
Jack,

Interesting.....I don't know who wrote that "torch" speech, but the LAST thing "Scientists", and the over-educated in general are known for,....is being logical!






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#161478 - 03/15/07 08:46 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: LT61]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
As Jack mentioned, I wrote the torch speech. I don't want to assume anything, so before I respond to your post, can you clarify what you mean by "over-educated"?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161479 - 03/15/07 09:06 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
agentfox1942 Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Hagerstown, Maryland
Jack, I really enjoy your writing style and I always have a smile when I read posts in this message board or any other. I try to contribute as much as possible, but I don't know much about a lot so I defer to the experts. Your point about using a line conditioner for the "right reasons" is what I really meant to find out with this thread. I'm not nor will I ever say my amp will perform better or my speakers will sound better if I have an A/C line conditioner. I really wanted one for protection and security and peace of mind. It's a lot of money to invest in equipment to just leave it up to chance of not blowing it up with a ligthening strike or something that home owners insurance will not pay for - even with a deductible. Thanks for all the advice and input -god bless us, everyone (Charles Dickens writing for Tim Cratchit - props)
_________________________
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub

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#161480 - 03/15/07 09:21 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: pmbuko]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Yeah, that had me shaking my head as well. I wonder. Was Einstein "over-educated"?

Quote:

As Jack mentioned, I wrote the torch speech. I don't want to assume anything, so before I respond to your post, can you clarify what you mean by "over-educated"?



_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161481 - 03/15/07 11:36 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
Incidentally, I believe that Einstein did not do well in school. Perhaps a better example might be Stephen Hawking, or Richard Feynman.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#161482 - 03/15/07 11:53 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
well, education comes from more places than school. I did ask for clarification on what was meant by over-educated. Still waiting.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161483 - 03/15/07 12:09 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: pmbuko]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8271
Loc: Tacoma
Albert Einstein was a ladies' man
While he was working on his universal plan
He was making out like Charlie Sheen
He was a genius

RIP Warren Zevon.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#161484 - 03/15/07 12:22 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: pmbuko]
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 836
Loc: Illinois.
I think my post is self explanatory...I do not want to scrap with anyone, nor endure anymore of Jack's head shaking.
However, if you go to dictionary.com, you will find many definitions to reflect upon.
_________________________
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#161485 - 03/15/07 02:01 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: thyname]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Quote:

One more thing: I moved to my new condo last August, and took the cable box with me. I run directly to the TV, without any hookup to PF60, and guess what?! No hum!! I guess it was comething with cable wiring at that old building.





I would imagine there was most likely a poor grounding connection on the old cable at the main inlet to the building.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#161486 - 03/15/07 03:47 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: LT61]
zhimbo Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Hanover, New Hampshire
Oxford English Dictionary: "Having been educated to a higher academic level than is necessary or desirable."

By that definition, few if any scientists are over-educated.

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#161487 - 03/15/07 07:28 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Warren Zevon was awesome.
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#161488 - 03/16/07 08:04 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: CV]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
His music still is.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161489 - 03/17/07 10:27 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ken.C]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1122
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:

Hey Shawn, you got any of that popcorn left?




I go away for 3 days, and I have to make a double batch.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#161490 - 03/18/07 04:58 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: real80sman]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Did anyone else order the Belkin from eCost? I just did a couple of hours ago, and am wondering if I'm going to regret it....

I've dealt with eCost with probably 10 transactions over many years and never had a problem. After placing this order, though, I checked resellerratings.com and their rating is horrible. It seems that they've either nosedived in customer service or there's a bunch of bad reviews written by clandestine competitors!

I'm tempted to cancel and order from Buy.com or Amazon for $100 more...eCosts' price is so much lower than the competitors I'm thinking it seems too good to be true....

Anyone else order from them?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161491 - 03/18/07 05:31 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: pmbuko]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Quote:

I did ask for clarification on what was meant by over-educated.



I know in my case it means I was educated beyond my intelligence
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#161492 - 03/18/07 06:33 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
Mark they have always been rated bad. but i have never had a problem with them.
Jake
_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#161493 - 03/18/07 07:48 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: snakeyes]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Mark they have always been rated bad. but i have never had a problem with them.
Jake



Same here, Mark. Of course, that is no guarantee you won't have a problem, but I've always been satisfied.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161494 - 03/18/07 09:50 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Ajax]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Thanks Jake and Jack! I guess I'll just wait and see!

It was a pretty quick decision, as I needed to buy another voltage regulator today and remembered the Belkin unit discussion. eCost only had one left so I grabbed it.....

I didn't feel the need to research since I had used eCost so much in the past. But...wow... I normally trust resellerratings.com so I didn't know what to think.... (!)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161495 - 03/19/07 10:30 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
As mentioned, I bought mine from eCost as well. No problems and extremely quick shipping. I've ordered probably a dozen things from eCost over the past 4-5 years, and the experience has always been good. That said, all of my transactions have been 'simple' purchases. Nothing that required contacting their customer support, mail-in-rebates, nor returns. Pretty much any company should be able to do a simple bill & ship transaction with minimal problems.

One thing to keep in mind about the 'bargain countdown' stuff, is that the 'units remaining' and the 'time remaining' is mostly* a gimick. I've watched stuff go from 1 or 2 units remaining one day, to having 20 left the next, dwindle back down to 1 or 2, then bump back up to 15. Most of the timers simply reset back to several days when they expire. They do it to generate an auction-like kind of excitement in hopes of moving whatever they're trying to sell at that discount (IMHO).

*Products do eventually revert back to their normal prices. I was once thinking about purchasing a camcorder from them, and watched the countdown & units dwindle for a couple of days. Soon after having 1 unit left, it went off the countdown and back up to the old price. So it *can* matter.

Quote:

Thanks Jake and Jack! I guess I'll just wait and see!

It was a pretty quick decision, as I needed to buy another voltage regulator today and remembered the Belkin unit discussion. eCost only had one left so I grabbed it.....

I didn't feel the need to research since I had used eCost so much in the past. But...wow... I normally trust resellerratings.com so I didn't know what to think.... (!)





Edited by PeterChenoweth (03/19/07 10:34 AM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161496 - 03/22/07 03:21 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: PeterChenoweth]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Update:
I received the Belkin unit from eCost.... (even next-day though I paid for two-day shipping). This unit is just... well....Cool!

I ordered a second one ten minutes ago!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161497 - 03/22/07 03:40 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
That's kind of what I thought.

We can debate all day about whether or not it helps sound quality, or if it's any better than a cheap surge protector, or if it's worth the cost. For $150ish, it just looks cool and the multiple switching, outlets, and turn-on options are very handy.

Quote:

Update:
I received the Belkin unit from eCost.... (even next-day though I paid for two-day shipping). This unit is just... well....Cool!

I ordered a second one ten minutes ago!





Edited by PeterChenoweth (03/22/07 03:50 PM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161498 - 03/22/07 04:18 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Krich Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 93
Loc: Duvall, WA
I just hooked mine up today. I like it for several reasons:

1) I can see the input voltage. Living in an area that is somewhat rural and made the national news in December for being without power for a week due to a wind storm, I've been a little nervous about the quality of our power. There are still power lines that are zip-tied to poles to keep them out of the street.
2) I can monitor amperage. I was worried I was going to max the circuit out with the TV, Receiver, Sub, DVD, Xbox, etc. Looks like I'm only pulling a peak of ~7A with everything on and the first scene of "Saving Private Ryan" playing at 0dB on the receiver. Also found out the TV pulls >2A for a few minutes after being turned off, and 0.6A when off. Strange.
3) I only have one outlet and there's just something wrong with plugging all my expensive stuff into a $1.99 power strip.
4) I thought I would like the remote switch capabilities, but it's not great for DLP TV's (maybe even harmful, I was thinking) or the Xbox, and I really have no use for the delay feature (yet).
5) Did I mention it's got a bunch of outlets?
_________________________
Ken. VaSSallo Series M60v2, VP100v2, QS8v2 SVS SB12-Plus

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#161499 - 03/22/07 04:27 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: Krich]
Lorenzo1000 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Winterpeg
Well after all this talk about how cool these are and due to the fact that I have a couple of amps that I want to switch on at the same time as my receiver I bit the bullet and ordered up one of these bad boys. Let's hope it's up to the task.
_________________________
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83

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#161500 - 03/22/07 07:16 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: PeterChenoweth]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Quote:

We can debate all day about whether or not it helps sound quality, or if it's any better than a cheap surge protector, or if it's worth the cost. For $150ish, it just looks cool and the multiple switching, outlets, and turn-on options are very handy.



I would get one just for the coolness factor. I love gadgets.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#161501 - 03/22/07 07:23 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: jakewash]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Quote:

I would get one just for the coolness factor. I love gadgets.




I haven't even put mine in my HT rack yet. I set it up to see how many amps my duplication rack is drawing, and I don't want to pull it out of there! Clients will be very impressed when I hit that switch and the overhead track light comes on, then all the duplicators, laptop and everything else fires up after a delay! It's just cool with that blue display!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161502 - 03/23/07 12:40 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Well, for the second time, eCost delivered the unit to me next-day, even though I didn't pay for next-day.

After PMing with Jack, I ordered the matching UPS ten minutes ago.

Man, is Jack in deep doo-doo with my wife!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161503 - 03/23/07 01:22 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: MarkSJohnson]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
At that price I went and ordered PF60 also, you guys are all in trouble with my wife.
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#161504 - 03/23/07 02:13 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: HomeDad]
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
i dont need one but i was/am about 2 seconds away from ordering one as well. Must....... resist...... unneccesary....... electronics
Jake
_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#161505 - 03/23/07 06:54 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: snakeyes]
ihifi Offline
local

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 280
Loc: CT
I also just ordered the PF60 from ecost. I was hesitant to purchase from them given less than stellar reviews, but the experience of folks like Mark encouraged me to go forward. I have a Tripplite UPS ($99 at Costco) but it only provides around 600-700 joules of protection. Since we use the HT room only on weekends, I think UPS is less critical than reliable surge protection. I guess, it will also save me from turning on several components, one at a time.
_________________________
John
Our HT


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#161506 - 03/28/07 07:39 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: HomeDad]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I think I'm going to email eCost and ask for some sort of commission. You guys have ordered, what, like 3 or 4 of them now?
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#161507 - 03/28/07 08:18 PM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: PeterChenoweth]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Got mine yesterday, It looks real pretty and tons of outlets plus switching, I really don'y care if conditions or not. And Peter I think you should get a commision, not sure if eCost will agree.
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#161508 - 03/29/07 02:04 PM $300 of Bling... [Re: HomeDad]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
I'll echo what others have said: I don't see or hear any difference (I didn't expect to, but that's not why I bought them).

I bought 'em 'cuz they're purdy!

_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161509 - 03/29/07 02:11 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Lorenzo1000 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Winterpeg
Wow Mark, great picture. One of yours I assume. I can hardly wait for mine to arrive. It takes much longer to receive products from Ecost when you're from Canada.
_________________________
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83

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#161510 - 03/29/07 02:14 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
speakergrrl Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 68
Loc: NC
I like the way you talk, man. You sure your not from NC instead of NH? Anyway, I like your bling, haha
_________________________
It's the fountain of youth It's the meaning of life So hot, so sweet, so wet my appetite

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#161511 - 03/29/07 02:36 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: Lorenzo1000]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Quote:

One of yours I assume.



Yes, I got the UPS Monday, but didn't put it in the rack till this afternoon. I think I was a bit nervous that the two units would crash through the glass shelves on the Bell'O rack!

Anyway, I figured a photo of the two of them would bring Jack out from hiding.

They really ARE nice looking...I was tempted to pull them out of the rack and do some nice studio shots with them for the hell of it, but it sounds like too much work, and I've got enough at the moment....

Whitney, I'm definitely from New Hampshire; I've just watched Deliverance recently! Welcome to the forums, BTW!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161512 - 03/29/07 03:01 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
speakergrrl Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 68
Loc: NC
Quote:

Whitney, I'm definitely from New Hampshire; I've just watched Deliverance recently! Welcome to the forums, BTW!




Man, what is it about yankees and that dum movie. lol, well thanks for the welcome, my first, ha.

ps, squeal, piggy :-)
_________________________
It's the fountain of youth It's the meaning of life So hot, so sweet, so wet my appetite

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#161513 - 03/29/07 03:13 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: speakergrrl]
michael_d Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3881
Loc: Up yonder
Hey Mark,

Do you think that back up would have enough oomph to power down a projector? Power outages are the norm in my neck of the woods and these stupid bulbs are expensive. And what's the model number so I can do a shopping search?

Welcome S-Grl. I agree with you.....Deliverance is a dum movie. I can't seam to get past the inbreeds twanging the banjo before getting sick.
_________________________


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#161514 - 03/29/07 03:28 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
Lorenzo1000 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Winterpeg
This is the model number of the back up. BELKIN AP30800-10
_________________________
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83

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#161515 - 03/29/07 03:40 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: Lorenzo1000]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
A Link to Belkin's page, and where I bought it: eCost.

The prices of these things fluctuate wildly.... there have been a few threads over the last year as to how they were $XXX price at one store and one-fifth of that price somewhere else. Jack mentioned to me that one of the units (in black) jumped $100, and the UPS I linked to at eCost above for $193 today was $139 when I bought it 7 days ago...!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161516 - 03/29/07 03:48 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16266
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You could have gotten purdy for a few measly bucks!


_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#161517 - 03/29/07 04:11 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
I bought this one for $148.00 eCost
Belkin
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#161518 - 03/29/07 04:27 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:


Anyway, I figured a photo of the two of them would bring Jack out from hiding.




Which it has!

And, just to show the difference between a professional photographer and a hack. There is this.......



.....and then there is this .......



How embarrassing!!!!!!!!!

By the way, Mark, you have your two units upside down. The UPS goes on the bottom.

Hi Whitney, and welcome! It's always nice having someone help sonicfox (Mary) supply a little relief from all the excessive testosterone which can be found around here.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161519 - 03/30/07 09:43 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: Ajax]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Quote:

By the way, Mark, you have your two units upside down. The UPS goes on the bottom.



I wasn't sure which way to put them, so I looked at the photograph you sent me of your setup, and did the opposite!

_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#161520 - 03/30/07 09:50 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
michael_d Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3881
Loc: Up yonder
How do you guys running both the conditioner and back up have your component’s power routed??
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#161521 - 03/30/07 10:01 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I have precisely the same question.

The UPS can be found for about $118+ shipping online, so that's sort of tempting. Just for the bling factor....

Quote:

How do you guys running both the conditioner and back up have your component’s power routed??



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#161522 - 03/30/07 10:01 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
sidvicious02 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 973
Loc: Brandon, Manitoba
I am inclined to think that Jack should be the one on the Belkin payroll, it would seem he has done enough, "convincing" around here, including myself. I also purchased a PF60 a few months back. Completely unnecessary but i am very happy with it, since it sits nicely in rack (rather than on the floor like most other surge protectors) it has really cleaned up the rat's nest of cords behind my HT. Plus it has a pretty blue light!
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#161523 - 03/30/07 10:33 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: PeterChenoweth]
michael_d Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3881
Loc: Up yonder
Quote:

I have precisely the same question.

The UPS can be found for about $118+ shipping online, so that's sort of tempting. Just for the bling factor....

Quote:

How do you guys running both the conditioner and back up have your component’s power routed??








Really? Where?
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#161524 - 03/30/07 10:49 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: sidvicious02]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
He may end up convincing me as well. Allow me to explain. My current power strip/surge protector is always tripping and shutting off power to my components. Most of the time that I enter my home theater, I see the little red light that means it has happened again. So then I have to flip off the switch and switch it on again.

I'm thinking that my HVAC may be the culprit, as the lights dim briefly when the heat/air kicks in. This would probably be enough to set off some kind of protection mode, eh? You would think I wouldn't have this problem, as the HT is on power through a separate circuit breaker box that was installed just for this purpose.

I wish I knew what kind of strip I had, but off the top of my head I cannot. I outsourced the HT stuff and went with what the local installers recommended.

Plus, Mark's nice pictures are selling me too. And there's the WAF bonus of a neater A/V cabinet ...
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#161525 - 03/30/07 10:58 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Mike and Peter:
I have my DLP, my TiVo and my cable DVR plugged into the UPS. Everything else is on the other unit.

My thoughts are that the UPS will give the DLP bulb time to cool down, and preserve settings/recordings on the DVR units. When we lose power, my cable DVR in particular often takes hours to download program info and we sometimes miss a show in the meantime.

We don't lose power too often around here.... maybe a true outage 3X a year. But there's 2-5 "Blips" a day long enough to set off a momentary alarm on my other UPS units in my offices.

Still, though, I have to be honest enough to admit that 75% of the reason for purchasing was the "bling" factor!
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#161526 - 03/30/07 11:37 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

By the way, Mark, you have your two units upside down. The UPS goes on the bottom.



I wasn't sure which way to put them, so I looked at the photograph you sent me of your setup, and did the opposite!




Good choice!
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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161527 - 03/30/07 11:43 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
I ended up going for Belkin's computer version of that UPS. A little higher capability, but no non-UPS outlets, and significantly less pretty. Also, significantly cheaper. Downside? My H/K is plugged into the UPS (yeek). No outage yet...
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#161528 - 03/30/07 11:52 AM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6247
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

I have precisely the same question.

The UPS can be found for about $118+ shipping online, so that's sort of tempting. Just for the bling factor....

Quote:

How do you guys running both the conditioner and back up have your component’s power routed??







Like Mark, I only have my DLP and my cable box plugged into the UPS. Everything else is plugged into the PF60. Like Mark, again, I'm merely interested in having enough juice to shut down my DLP properly. I suppose it would be wise to have my DVD player plugged into the UPS just so I could remove the disc before shutting everything down. However, I've never had a power outage while watching a DVD.

Belkin says plugging either unit into the other is a "NO NO." Plug each unit into a wall outlet.

Also (Boy is this going to sound stupid! ), I like knowing I have a bunch more outlets, JUST in case I want to plug in more equipment. (Is that sad or what! I feel like Oliver Twist. "More? You want MORE? )

118$ WOW! That is an incredible price!
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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#161529 - 03/30/07 01:27 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
So you don't daisy-chain these. Interesting. So you have to choose whether your components get the power consumption displays, switching, filtering & surge protection from the PF60 or the battery backup & surge protection from the UPS. I want both!

I still have a regular SDTV that I have no wish to protect in any way (did I say that?) and my Dish DVR doesn't seem affected by power outages, other than the 25-30 seconds to re-acquire the satellites on the power restore. For me, it'd be like 99% bling factor.

I was off by $1.99, and didn't count shipping. So sorry.

$119.99 + $32.49 shipping (WTH?) from Buy.com

http://www.buy.com/prod/pureav-ups-8-outlet-silver-series/q/loc/101/10389018.html


Edited by PeterChenoweth (03/30/07 01:39 PM)
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#161530 - 03/30/07 08:14 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: PeterChenoweth]
michael_d Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3881
Loc: Up yonder
thanks peter/jack/mark.....

i got one coming. my financial justification is to 'preserve' this $600 projector bulb in the ht room. my real reason, is it looks freakin cool!!

i have an ugly monster power conditioner for my two channel set up.....i must resist swapping over to belkin for that system too....but they look so freakin cool!!
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#161531 - 03/30/07 10:57 PM Re: $300 of Bling... [Re: michael_d]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Oh yeah, protecting a DLP or LCD bulb is definitely a worthy reason for having a UPS for HT gear. If I would just break down and buy that DLP HDTV that I've had my eye on for months, I'd be next in line for that UPS too.
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Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#246385 - 02/12/09 12:39 AM Re: A/C Line Conditioner [Re: pmbuko]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Except he had a back luck streak in dancing school, was that perhaps a less well known example of the Peter Principle?
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