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#162564 - 04/06/07 10:57 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
LMAO, as if your Denon is even close to putting out 484 watts, lol. Randy, leave the physics to the engineers and just enjoy your system before you DO fry your speakers, those tweeters do not take kindly to the kind of abuse you are putting them through running that Dennon with all that distortion and thats all you're hearing in volume.

Next thread, Help! I have blown tweeters.
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#162565 - 04/06/07 11:30 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: KlipschGuy]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Ok, I have to add my experience so far with the MPS1. Last night I played the following CD's in full length cranked loud and I mean really friggin loud in my HT which is about 2800 cu.ft.

Dire Straits "Brothers in arms" / huge dynamic peaks
Keb Mo " Simple Things" /massive bass
Poncho Sanchez "15 of his best" again, dynamics that just scream.
UB40 "Homegrown" DVD Concert..woot!,,,,mega, mega , mega bass
Nora Jones (as much as I could handle:) )

Unit got warm, but no where near hot, fans running full steam ahead though. Sound was excellent with zero distortion except for my ventilation rattling. Not one shutdown. I did not use an SPL meter as it doesn't matter what the dial says, my ears said thats friggin loud and I like it loud.

Of course I can make it shut down if I just turn it up till the volume is at insane levels that I would NEVER listen to.

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#162566 - 04/06/07 11:48 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: KlipschGuy]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
thanks chris
apples notequal organges
2800cuft notequal 8,000+cuft
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162567 - 04/06/07 11:51 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
This is very true Randy, I was just stating my experience. I think you just need more HP or a smaller room.
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#162568 - 04/06/07 12:32 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: KlipschGuy]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
In response to KlipschGuy (BTW, change the name please. Would you like me to ask Amie to change it for you? ), taking measurements this way is definitely heading down a questionable path...especially music. The problem of course is as Randy plays music, we have no idea what the frequency is and hence the impedance of the speaker.

And KlipschGuy is definitely right. There is a risk in frying the tweeters so I am sure Randy kept the duty cycle of the blaring short.

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#162569 - 04/09/07 01:08 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8288
Loc: Tacoma
Randy, are you enjoying this? It kind of seems not.

I am not an engineer. But it just seems like you've reached the design limits of your equipment in your environment.

Like KG said, bigger amp, smaller room, or live within your very well documented limitations.

It's supposed to be fun, you know.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#162570 - 04/09/07 01:11 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: tomtuttle]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
You got that right Tom.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162571 - 04/10/07 11:17 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
dlaufman Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 2
Dear Randy,

We've been testing the EPM-300 modules and we do not see any design issues with this amplifier. We have been producing this model for over three years without incident.

When we first heard of your problem, we honestly thought that there might be a real issue. We extensively tested many units and we were only able to make the amplifier shut down when driven to a true overload condition. I must also say that when this occurred the amplifier was in HARD clip.

We have told you in our phone conversations and direct email communication, your testing techniques are not really valid from an engineering, test, and measurement standpoint. Also, all they really seem to do is add more confusion to a fairly straight forward situation.

The problem you are having is that you are asking the amplifier to deliver output power levels well in excess of its rated power. When you do this you are forcing the amplifier into hard clip. It then shuts down. When we asked you to disable the soft limiter, we felt certain that you would be able to hear the difference in sound quality, as the limiter is no longer softening the clipped waveform. It also makes it seem a little "louder". Your response was that you could still make it shut down at "14", whatever that is.

This is what it is designed to do. It is designed to protect itself from gross overload.

I'm sorry that you are not satisfied with the output level you are achieving with this amplifier, but it is not a fault in the amplifier. It is making more than its rated power, and to reiterate, there is nothing wrong with the MPS-1.

The sad thing is that this thread and the associated comments are making people doubt a product that we have produced for a number of years. We have never had complaints of this nature until this last week or so. In both of these instances, it appears the amplifiers are being driven in a manner outside of their design limits.

They are dong EXACTLY what they were designed to do. Some users do not notice hard clipping or signs of overload, these protection circuits are designed to protect both the amplifier and the speaker.

We take great pride in our products and we want you to be 100% satisfied with your unit. As we have told you many times in the past, if you wish to return the unit, please asked for an RMA and we will arrange this for you immediately. You will be give a prompt refund.

Randy, you need at least twice the power of the MPS-1 in order to realize a meaningful increase in SPL. I have no idea why you want to drive your system to these levels but this is your decision. Please use hearing protection; BTW, I'm not kidding!

Respectfully,
Dan
_________________________
Dan Laufman

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#162572 - 04/10/07 11:54 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16274
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Sirquack,

It seems to me, given your recent findings and the detailed response from Emotiva, that your amps are not flawed. The RS meter is at fault for leading you to believe they weren't playing as loudl as they were when they were shutting down.

You can relax, take out the earplugs, and enjoy.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#162573 - 04/11/07 12:33 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: dlaufman]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Dan,

Thank you for replying. I am a little puzzled as to a few things you mentioned.

First of all, if anything, I have been supporting your product on AVSforum, AV123, and this forum. While others were saying it was defective, I have been trying to work with Lonnie to understand what might be happening, and hoping it was something simple. I have nothing but the highest respect for our company, Lonnie, Kathy, Robert, and yourself.

A little history without going into to many details. First of all I had the issue with static when I first purchased the unit. I spent weeks ruling out my home environement, wiring, speakers, grouding, etc. In the end, this was resolved by Lonnie placing a "cap" on the voltage regulators. I appreciate his quick support and troubleshooting.

This current issue is not unique to me, as other Axiom and Onix owners are having the same issue with 4 ohm speakers and at lower dB levels.

In regards to the R12 resister, I never performed this procedure, as the Ref 1 owner on AV123 already prooved this did not resolve his issues and reporting back to Lonnie. When I talked to Lonnie, he was amazed this did not help the problem, so I have decided not to make this modification.

In regards to my testing, yes I realize it is not up to par with "lab" quality equipment, however, even Lonnie said he was impressed with the results. If anything, my results back what your saying about the amp reaching its limits as designed, have you reviewed them?

I'm not sure what your referring to when you say I said it still shuts down at "14"? I don't recall every making such a statement. The amps shut down at +3 to +4 on the Denon dial, which goes to +18 total. At 0 (zero) on the dial I'm getting 100dB's from 12 ft away, which in an 8,000 cubic feet plus room, is not as loud as you think. Also, keep in mind the m80's are rated 95dB inroom 1 watt 1 meter. All I have to do is click the volume knob 3-4 more clicks above zero and that is all it takes to shut them down, and it is not to insane levels as you might think.

It appears that you think I'm trying to spread negative rumors about your product line, this could not be further from the truth. I'm sorry you see it that way. Perhaps you have not read all of my posts on this and other forums supporting Emotiva and the experts that answer the phone at your location.

One last thing, I have never hinted that I'm having difficulty returning the amp. I really was hoping it would not come to that. If you talk to Lonnie you will understand this has always been in our discussions as an option and have left 2 messages for him to call me.

I'm sorry I even started this thread.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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