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#16852 - 08/09/03 07:23 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
KC_Mike Offline
local

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 209
Loc: KS
I think the point cblake makes is a valid one. My brother has been in a band (Kill Creek) since the late 80's. At one point in time, they were signed with Mammoth records and toured the US and Canada.

Anyway, being the brother of a band member has some advantages. Over the years, I got to experience how music is recorded, mixed, mastered, etc. I was always getting copies of raw recordings, and then my brother would throw the first mastered versions my way for some feedback...but mainly because he knew I was dying to hear something. Often, songs were 'touched up' for a certain effect or to smooth out a 'bad spot' in the recording. Sometimes, vocals were touched up or digitally 'smoothed out' at spots in the song where the vocalist was going beyond his abilities (sorry Scott). So many effects and emphasis are used to add an 'edge' and to achieve that 'pop sound' the record executives insisted would drive sales.

Eventually, I would get to hear the final master that the record company was going to use on the album. Almost always, the end result was just as cblake suggested...a sound that is over-trebled and over-emphasized...among other things.

I guess that is why it always kills me when somebody says "I know what a cymbal is supposed to sound like...these speakers suck". If they only knew the transformation that takes place from the original recording to the final master...maybe they would consider the source more....especially on pop/rock music.



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#16853 - 08/09/03 09:14 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
I'm not familar with the Fletcher-Munson Effect. Can you please explain?

Thanks.


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#16854 - 08/10/03 12:03 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
Ok...so I decided to check it out for myself. Apparently at high volumes it is easier to hear the note at either end of the human hearing spectrum. So I play it loud, can hear the highs either, and that is why they bother me. This makes sense, but it seems that there still must be something else to it. I played the same track roughly 7dB louder (measured by SPL) at my house and the highs bothered me less at my house than at Marks.

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#16855 - 08/10/03 01:20 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
MarkT Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 79
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Why can't it be something as simple as the fact that you have an Onkyo and I have a Pioneer, and each receiver (not AMP) puts out a different sound?

Mark

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#16856 - 08/10/03 01:41 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
Mark, simply because there's no reason for one receiver to have a different sound unless the user has applied tone controls, surround modes, etc. to deliberately change it. The degree of liveliness of the two listening rooms is a variable factor.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#16857 - 08/10/03 03:57 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
Uh oh...hear we go again!

I agree the room could be major factor. But can you two guys swap receivers and check it out?

curtis

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#16858 - 08/10/03 10:13 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
MarkT Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 79
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Sushi - Do you know if listening in STEREO mode on the 45TX (not DIRECT) applies any types of equalization changes to the music? I ask this because I notice a slightly different sound in DIRECT vs STEREO. And no, I did not have any of the tone controls or MCACC eq. turned on while we were listening in STEREO mode that night.

JohnK - I can certainly see where the dynamics of the rooms themselves can be a factor here, but if the receiver truly makes no difference in the character of the sound produced:

1. There are a huge amount of misinformed people out there (and I will humbly included myself in that group, although I will stand corrected).
2. The manufacturers of these receivers as well as magazine reviewers certainly push the concept of different types of sound - and I realize some of this is a marketing ploy.

Mark



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#16859 - 08/10/03 10:39 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
We aren't going to swap receivers, but if Mark decides to try out those M60's I'll be happy to bring my M22's for comparison purposes and we can hear my speakers in his room with him equipment.

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#16860 - 08/10/03 01:40 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
Wow - long, contentious thread here. Might as well give my $.02.
I use 12 gauge garden lighting wire to supply my QS8s so I am certainly no audiopile, but I clearly hear a difference from one brand of receiver to another. The only way I could be mistaken is if every salesman, in every store that I have ever demo'd equipment in, was lying to me about which receiver he was playing at each moment. It is also possible that the receivers were displaying differences caused by set-up (treble knob boosted on one, but not the other; stereo mode vs. direct; and who knows what else a store might try to steer people towards a particular brand).

I'm completely with you guys in the de-bunking audiopile myths camp, but for whatever reason different receivers seem to have different sounds (at least for me).

As a side note: Why do people post on this board to tell us how much they prefer other speakers to Axioms? That BS annoys me.


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#16861 - 08/10/03 01:59 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Personally,

I wish I never started this thread. Even, if the 22's are bright sounding speakers that doesn't make them bad. I've been to my local Paradigm dealer and have heard some incredibly sounding bright speakers. I'm thinking of ordering some Axiom speakers. They have to be better than most of what I have heard.

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