Sean and Rick

Perhaps you weren't aware that you're posting on the Axiom loudspeaker forum, where our members know it all. You can't fool us by even suggesting that different amplifiers with similar specifications have any discernable difference in sound quality. To suggest otherwise is a violation of the canons of collective wisdom here, and our canons of collective wisdom are strictly enforced by our resident geniuses like pmbuko.

We understand that there are snake oil salesmen out there who have dedicated their professional lives to tweaking, modifying, even designing and building audio components believing their efforts would result in an improvement of sound quality.

Now, here on this board, we don't really care about sound quality. We insist on listening to charts. Better men than you have snickered at the idea of audio bliss through frequency response curves, call us 'chart zombies and all, but then again, you're a stranger here, aren't you?

After a while, you'll fit in. Let us know when you start using string instead of fancy speaker wire and interconnects.

Then you'll be one of us.

Until then expect a bit of derisive correction from our enforcers of the one, revealed, audio truth.

Charts rule. Who needs ears.

The ears are fine. It's when they're connected to a brain that all of the problems arise.

Close Your Eyes. Enjoy the Music. Then trust your ears. Respect Others with a Differing Valid Opinion.

Let's get the facts first. Then we can distort them as much as we wish .

Totally unnecessary and unproductive diatribe, 2x6. You made no argument or point, you just made personal attacks dripping with sarcasm and laced with grossly exaggerated, and false, hyperbole. Sadly, doing so says more about you than it does those whom you insult.

With so much anger, frustration, and hatred for many here, it causes one to wonder why on earth you even come here, let alone post here. The only answer that comes to mind is that your goal is to irritate, upset, and cause trouble. Congratulations, in all probability you've succeeded. Happy? Feeling good about yourself? How sad.

Not often my signature really applies, but here I think it does.....

"Charts rule. Who needs ears. "

I care about ears.

The last time this sort of discussion came up, I practically begged for any and all valid, blind *listening* tests. (You know - listening. Done with ears).

The only ones presented basically fell into the "no detectable differences" column. You presented none, but instead preferred to present caricatures and strawmen: just like now!

So I'll take both ears and charts, and BOTH sources of data seem to point to the same conclusion.

But I'm always open to new info.

Well said, zhimbo. What 2x6 fails to remember every time this discussion arises is that the people he's railing against -- us scientific types -- wholeheartedly believe that ears are the best measuring instrument when it comes to determining whether amp A sounds better than amp B. The catch is that you need to keep your eyes and brain (which is full of conscious and unconscious bias) out of the equation by listening without seeing or knowing which device you're listening to.

Fascinating responses I have been reading. Basically, what I am hearing is that as long as the wattage is appropriate for the speakers you are driving, it doesn’t matter what type of equipment you have. Interesting way of looking at things, considering that all players and receivers, not to mention speakers, have different inherent sound characteristics. Although, from some of your comments, I would assume that some of you just look at the price tag and wattage and as long as the unit plays music, you call that good, and discount any sound difference that you hear between brands as being “wishful hearing.” You can try to convince yourself all you want about how speakers other units that have certain advantageous measurements should all sound great, but the truth of the matter is that not everything that measures out well, will sound great. I’ve listened to many speakers that ficticiously went down to 20-17 hz, but I would say they were lucky to go down to 50 hz maybe. These speakers were from a number of major high-end manufacturers btw. Measurements are good, but unless the unit or speakers sound good when you listen to it, then it is meaningless. Many high-end pieces and speakers measure out great, but then you listen to them and realize that some cheaper pieces of equipment actually sound better to your ears. In all honesty, what your own ears hear is what matters. Will a person buy something that measures out very nicely on paper, but to their own ears sounds terrible? I think not.

I do acknowledge that there are plenty of tweaks out there that may or may not work. Much of it will have to do with a person’s system, as they are often meant to fix certain deficiencies. And some will be downright snake oil. Other tweaks will be too complex and ridiculously elaborate, and yet only offer minimal benefit. And, as I have stated before, many high-end manufacturers produce equipment that may cost quite a bit more, but in reality does not sound a lot better (if at all) than many cheaper manufacturers, which I believe is part of why the high-end audio is shrinking. If you want measurements for my modified HK 3480, they are on that review, but I would hope that some of you would let your ears hear the difference and not fool yourself into thinking that all equipment sounds the same and differences in sound are just an illusion.

Sean and Rick