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#177520 - 10/01/07 04:36 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Well, I guess it is my turn. I really won't add much as Mojo said it all very well and it was a pleasure to meet him.

I had already listened to the M82(60/22combo) at my own house, just not in this configuration(on top of the M60), and was extremely pleased with the sound and it was this cleaner fuller sound that prompted me to contact Mojo to see what an 80 sounded like. I suspected the M80 sounded more like my M22 and my suspicions were correct. The M80 is a near perfect blend of the M22 and M60. If I had to buy a only one set of speakers it would now be the M80s. They have all the crispness and clarity of the m22 and the fuller/richer sound of the M60. The M60s more laid back upper mids and vocals make them a wonderfull smooth sounding speaker, just not clear enough for what I have become accustomed to. Although the louder I play them the more the uppers and vocals do seem to come to life, but still not as well as the M80s nor my M22s.

I was very happy to get to hear my M22s paired with an outstanding Subwoofer, however the sound still was not as warm nor full, as the M60s or the M80s. I still feel the best speaker I have heard is the M60/M22 combination, all the clarity I am used to and the warmth of the M60.

The M80s I felt were a little(marginally) too crisp the louder it was played. The M60 would tone down/smooth the mids and highs a little when paired up with the M22 and the louder I play this combo the better it sounds.

Now my wife had an interesting thing to say when I mentioned I think I want to send the M60's back. She brought up a very good point, the M80s would still make bad CDs sound very bad and that I have noted the bad ones are not as harsh/poor sounding on the M60s. She said I might want to keep the M22/M60 combo and run them as A/B as I have now and when I listen to any bad CDs, simply turn off the M22s and listen with the M60s. Have I ever mentioned I REALLY love my wife, she is one smart lady.

Although I am still undecided at this point, as I now will have to buy some more speakers for upstairs if I keep the M60s.....hmmm is that a bad thing? M3s here we come ....wait, wait, wait, that M80 sounded pretty good on its own .....no, no, no, too big for upstairs, this is my wifes realm, must.......stick........ to....... M3s...... no....no...no....M80s down M22s up and new EP500.....

Now that EP600 is beyond anything I have heard, so tight and crisp yet will shake the fillings out of your head and if turned right up could be used for demolition. It has no boominess I could hear, even during the depth charge scene in U-571. The terror on my face was due to the fact I thought the house was going to come down on us! I wish we had the SPL meter going it had to be well above/near 110db. during the whole scene, absolutely amazing.

Ok so I added more than I thought. Again, I must say I had a GREAT time and it was a pleasure to meet Tex. I also forgot to tell Tex that the avatar is most definitely a dog now with the eyes moving around.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#177521 - 10/01/07 05:44 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

Now my wife had an interesting thing to say when I mentioned I think I want to send the M60's back. She brought up a very good point, the M80s would still make bad CDs sound very bad and that I have noted the bad ones are not as harsh/poor sounding on the M60s. She said I might want to keep the M22/M60 combo and run them as A/B as I have now and when I listen to any bad CDs, simply turn off the M22s and listen with the M60s. Have I ever mentioned I REALLY love my wife, she is one smart lady.




Now that is thinking outside the box. What a great idea!I'm kinda jealous now . Wait, maybe I can just remove one of the mids and tweeters on my 80s and trade them in for 22s. Wouldn't that work ?

You peaked my curiosity and I just had to find out for myself what SPLs we were hitting. It wasn't that bad actually. 111 dBC peaks with an average of about 105 during the explosions. I bet if I had my stairway closed off I'd be hitting close to 120.

Your observation on the crispness of the 80s is bang on and I've always thought that it was related to my room brightness. But just recently, I've discovered that the grills really do make a sonic difference. With the grills removed, the highs are a little too crisp for my liking. And depending on the instrument, they can sound shrill too (eg. flute). I should have left the grills on as that's how I listen to my system.

Next time we need Robb and a few others to participate as well. Who knows what we'll end up creating? Maybe I'll put all of you to work on a new avatar ?

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#177522 - 10/01/07 06:15 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: Mojo]
gem41573 Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Northern NJ
Interesting thread. I've been using M22s for years, and I just put in an order for the M60s to use in our new house. While I've loved their sound, I've always felt a little something was lacking in my M22's, notably some fullness in the sound. I think the M60s will fit the bill perfectly for me, and I think I will appreciate their slightly "warmer" nature. We'll see.

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#177523 - 10/01/07 06:40 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: gem41573]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
If not, you could always run them together!
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#177524 - 10/01/07 08:46 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Quote:

You peaked my curiosity and I just had to find out for myself what SPLs we were hitting. It wasn't that bad actually. 111 dBC peaks with an average of about 105 during the explosions. I bet if I had my stairway closed off I'd be hitting close to 120.





I wasn't too far off!

I did have one more thought about the M80/M60 combo as you and I at the time described it as weird and we lost the imaging etc. I found that it was a layered image and as we backed way from the monsters the sound started to blend a little better but it still appeared to be layered. There was a low frequency closer to the ground and then the mids and highs and then there was another layer of low frequency above the highs which I am sure was destroying the imaging. The M60 just has too much bass to have them standing on the heads like we did.

I now have to get my VP100 and VP150 review happening but the kids keep asking me to play Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess with them instead, not that it is hard to get me to participate.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#177525 - 10/01/07 09:20 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in bet [Re: Hutzal]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Quote:


NOw that I have been with the M22s for a long time, I think I would have a hard time going to the M60s, as Jason cited, he is used to the crispness of the M22s highs.

My advise for Jason would be to go with the M80s, which has the elements of both 60s and 22s. The only problem is that they are freaking beasts (in size).




I would definately recommend the M80s for you and they really are not that much bigger than the M60s, if you have room for the M60 then the M80 will also fit as they are only a couple inches deeper. If room allows and WAF, order up some M60s and run both, the combo package is truly better than the M80s alone.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#177526 - 10/01/07 09:30 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: Mojo]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Quote:

You peaked my curiosity and I just had to find out for myself what SPLs we were hitting. It wasn't that bad actually. 111 dBC peaks with an average of about 105 during the explosions. I bet if I had my stairway closed off I'd be hitting close to 120.




What was the wattage required to hit these peaks?
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#177527 - 10/01/07 09:45 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
1.25 watts unclipped if I did my math correctly.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#177528 - 10/01/07 11:43 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Oh no...not 1.25W. This time Mojo turned it up .

It's hard to say what the total power was because the sub was contributing so much to the action and I've never characterized the sub's power. I've only characterized the M80s and with the -10 setting on my Denon, the 80s were sinking less than 30W nominal. The centres and surrounds were on too of course.

I could have certainly driven the sub harder too but I think the peaks of those explosions were pretty much driving it to its upper limits.


Edited by Mojo (10/02/07 12:11 AM)

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#177529 - 10/01/07 11:46 PM Re: M80, M60, M22 ...and a few abominations in between [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Jason, that's a good description of what we heard and, like you say, it's because of the woofers. Darn, we should have laid the 60 on top of the M80 on its side .

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