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#179729 - 10/19/07 09:28 PM M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
What better way to spend a Friday afternoon than play with various Axioms...this time at Jakewash's (Jason's) house. The theme today was centres. I'll keep this short and sweet so that I don't miss my Friday night pool game at my buddy's:

We should disclose that Jason's SPL meter went missing so we could not calibrate the SPL for the different configurations. Here are the configs we tried and our ruminations. Jason will be posting photos most likely tomorrow:

1. VP100 above the TV: sounded like it was coming from the TV. Clear and natural. Timbre changed as we sweeped 45 deg off axis but the dialogue was certainly anchored to the centre. Recommended.

2. VP150 above the TV: same as above but louder. The 100 had similar sound to an M22 whereas the 150 sounded more like an M60. Recommended.

3. VP150 on top/VP100 on bottom: Same comments as 1 with the exception that the dialogue moved ever so slightly upward. You really have to listen critically to hear this. More clear than 1 or 2. You can do it but it's not the most aesthetically pleasing.

4. Single M22 oriented vertically: Tremendous on and off-axis response! Center dialogue was anchored. Unfortunately, it sounded like a column of sound running down the vertical centre of the TV. We don't recommend this.

5. Single M22 oriented horizontally below the screen: The woofers were pointing to the right side and it sounded like someone was throwing their voice to the right during off-axis listening. We don't recommend this at all.

6. Dual M22s on each side of the TV: very clear and very natural but the centre image was "phasey" even on-axis. We don't recommend this at all.

7. M44s: brought to you from the same team that tested M82s \:\) . This consisted of two M22s laid side-to-side across the bottom of the TV. The first attempt was WWTTWW. From what I remember, that sounded fine head on but didn't sound right when we panned. The second attempt was TWWWWT. Oh my! Did this ever sound sweet! The response was consistent during panning and very clear with a nice wall of centre sound. Highly recommended.

If I missed anything, I am sure Jason will correct me. I also wanted to try M22s on the sides, VP150 on top and VP100 on the bottom all in parallel but Jason wimped out \:\) . Too bad we didn't have an A1400 to drive that load. We wanted to try his 60s as centers too (horizontally \:D ) but we ran out of time.

I also wanted to mention that I was floored with the quantity of the bass out of Jason's m60s. Everyone always talks about the powerful bass out of the 60s and 80s but I had no idea why people felt that way. In my 4,000 cubic foot room, I certainly don't get that kind of performance out of my 80s. But his room is less than half the volume of mine and I'm sure that makes all the difference. In my opinion, this still doesn't mean that you don't need a sub but it's nice to know you could live without a sub for a while and not feel like you're missing too much.

So thanks to Jason for the use of his facilities. We now have an Axiom Audio Field Test lab in Calgary's northeast and southwest \:\) . Now I need to upgrade to M82s and M44s.

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#179730 - 10/19/07 09:31 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Mojo]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
pictures?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#179732 - 10/19/07 09:36 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
 Originally Posted By: Mojo
Jason will be posting photos most likely tomorrow:


Just can't wait, eh? Maybe you should go play with your sub ;\) .

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#179734 - 10/19/07 09:47 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Nicely done once again Mojo.

Sorry I am making everyone wait, I had to run off to get my son before we could try to blow my little Denon apart. This cut our session much shorter than I would have liked and now I am at work.

I will add pics and my thoughts early this morning when I get home. I may even throw together the VP220.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#179737 - 10/19/07 10:19 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: jakewash]
alexadams77 Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 95
Just wondering how you hooked up the M22's?
_________________________
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2200
Main: Axiom m80
CC: Axiom VP150
Surround: Axiom QS8
Sub: SVS PC13-Ultra

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#179738 - 10/19/07 10:19 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Mojo]
Joe_in_SC Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 307
Loc: Charleston, SC
Thanks for the fascinating and insightful research you're doing. I've been using my M22s as dual centers but the sound just didn't impress me that much compared to a single VP100 above. If I could chase the wife out of the media center, I'd try the M44 configuration right now! You've got me thinking about trying an MVP122 - dual vertical M22s plus the VP100 above.
_________________________
I started out with nothing & I've still got most of it left
M60 VP160 QS8 EP350
M22 VP100
Algonquins

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#179743 - 10/19/07 11:54 PM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Joe_in_SC]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Joe, that sounds interesting, I can set that up very easily and let you know my thoughts, as I have the VP100 as well. So that would be about a 3ohm load, I hope the Denon is up to it.

Alex we had them hooked up in parallel from the amp, like any other dual channel center that others are running on this forum.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#179747 - 10/20/07 12:17 AM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: jakewash]
alexadams77 Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 95
This could be a dumb question, but how did you do the Parallel Wiring? Do you just wire both speakers normally and then take the two Pos wires, twist together put in Pos on amp, then take the two Neg wires, twist together and put in Neg on the amp?
_________________________
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2200
Main: Axiom m80
CC: Axiom VP150
Surround: Axiom QS8
Sub: SVS PC13-Ultra

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#179749 - 10/20/07 12:45 AM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: Mojo]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10379
Mo and Jason, shortly after I got my M22s a little over five years ago I did some of the experiments you ran(not with any Axiom center). That and some previous checks with other small main speakers are the basis(along with articles tending to confirm my observations)for the suggestions I make here about centers.

My first comment is that your findings in 4. describe an ideal center speaker and that's the type of setup(not necessarily M22s)that I use and recommend.

I tried and agree with your "M44" findings in 7. If dual horizontal M22s are used, the better configuration is TMMMMT, which can be said to be somewhat analogous to the TMMMT of the VP150. I didn't think that there was a compelling reason(especially considering expense)to prefer it to 4.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#179754 - 10/20/07 01:09 AM Re: M22s, VP150, VP100 as centres...oh, and M44s [Re: alexadams77]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Alex,

That connection scheme works for paralleling.

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