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#186864 - 12/06/07 01:49 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: jakewash]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
That episode was such a cop out. Putting a candle in front of a big honking speaker cone? Of course it's going to get blown out.
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#186876 - 12/06/07 02:31 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: jakewash]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Sorry about he Bose comment, I should have known better, the box is just the rest of the speaker and you are correct, it's not a sub.

So then what does DD and DTS really send to the sub when you set your speakers to small and what is the frequency crossover point?. Is it different for every processor, or is there an industry standard?

Paul


Edited by Worfzara (12/06/07 02:32 PM)
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#186946 - 12/06/07 10:17 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: Worfzara]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Have never heard bass voices(or anything else)specifically coming from a sub. DD and DTS, along with everything else, send the frequencies under the selected point to the sub.
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#186981 - 12/07/07 08:18 AM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: JohnK]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6832
Loc: PEI, Canada
I don't think anybody has gone off topic yet..... Please, allow me.

Re: the frequency of James Earl Jones' voice.
It was all I could do not to start chuckling during my wedding because the judge who married us in the Dominican Republic looked and sounded EXACTLY like James Earl Jones. I'm talking an exact duplicate in looks and voice. He spoke in Spanish but all I could think of was, 'I wonder if that is how you say "Luke I am your father" in Spanish.'

We had a second ceremony in a church with just the immediate family when we returned, just in case I got the religious posters thinking. heh heh. Then a HUGE party.
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#187022 - 12/07/07 02:47 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: Murph]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Everyone needs to keep in mind that low frequencies are non-directional. We humans are very good at pinpointing the location of high frequencies. But as the tone gets lower, it becomes harder for our brains to differentiate where the sound is coming from.

A subwoofer should only be producing these low, non-directional frequencies, which is why you should not able to pick out the voice being produced from the sub. Sure, you can go stand right next to the sub and hear/feel it producing bass and low tones, but from a normal seating position you shouldn't be able to pinpoint that it's coming from the sub.

If you can pinpoint the sub (i.e. male voices coming from the corner of the room rather than from the front soundstage), I'd bet that your crossover is too high or your system isn't calibrated properly. A sub should not bring attention to itself. I don't mean that it shouldn't be heard or felt. I just mean that it should compliment the main speakers and blend seamlessly into the sonic picture. It should not really stand out as another speaker.

With that in mind, I am absolutely positive that my sub is helping with the low frequencies of instruments and voices. James Earl Jones, pipe organs, explosions, etc. If I flip the sub off, it's immediately aparent. But those harmonics are too low to pinpoint as coming from the sub. They blend in with the rest of the speakers.

This is also why you can often pinpoint the location of a 'bass module' in a Bose system. By design, Bose uses a much higher crossover than is normally used between the cubes and the module. It depends on the speaker and system design, but usually systems crossovers are between 60hz and maybe 120hz. Sometimes a little lower, sometimes a little higher. But I believe that I've read that Bose systems are crossed over somwhere in the neighborhood of 250hz, which is well into the range where most can readily pinpoint the source. My biggest complaint with Bose systems is that they just don't paint a realistic soundstage because of this weird, high, and noticable crossover.



Edited by PeterChenoweth (12/07/07 02:54 PM)
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#187028 - 12/07/07 03:06 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: Ken.C]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
That episode was such a cop out. Putting a candle in front of a big honking speaker cone? Of course it's going to get blown out.


Not one of their better episodes, no. But I don't know if was actually air movement that blew out the candle. As I recall, the flame 'danced' and flickered as they altered the frequency. It was not a specific volume that extinguished it, but a specific frequency. I'm not a physicist, but I think it had to do with the sound pressure waves, not so much a moving column of air as one would find from a speaker port.

I really wish Mythbusters would do annother audio myth episode. I would dearly love to see them test some of the debated ones; such as if different amps sound different, whether wiring makes a difference, green markers on CD's, elevated speaker wire, etc, etc.


Edited by PeterChenoweth (12/07/07 03:07 PM)
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#187029 - 12/07/07 03:09 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
You know, I've thought about that, but it would be really dull TV.
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#187031 - 12/07/07 03:56 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: Ken.C]
skyhawk669 Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 436
Loc: Austin, TX
Exactly what I was thinking. They should stick to blowing up stuff!

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#187036 - 12/07/07 04:13 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: skyhawk669]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
Eeeeehhhhh... the blowing stuff up gig is getting a little tired, too. I like the car crashes, myself.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#187043 - 12/07/07 04:36 PM Re: M22 vs. M60 for movies only [Re: Ken.C]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
If you go to the mythbusters website the forum has lots of requests for audio myths to be tested but as was stated I fear it would be to boring for most people to watch.....until they put all the equipment in a car and crash it into a wall and then blow it up.
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