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#191681 - 01/11/08 01:49 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: autoboy]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Yes, to clarify...
-- I am showing the words "entire channel" under the LFE column just to represent that there is a whole separately recorded channel on a 5.1 recording.

-- Yes, the sloped arrows have nothing to do with sloped verses hard cut offs for a crossover. Just the way I drew it.

-- I also meant to add that I was keeping it in scope with Denon recievers. Just since that is what I have. Others may treat thier terminology and settings different.

Back to your point. Are you saying that a crossover setting is applied to the separate LFE channel as well? I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. That would change things for sure.
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#191686 - 01/11/08 02:05 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Murph]
Nachosgrande Offline
local

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 259
Loc: New York
What I've wondered about setting up the M22 @ 80 crossover (79 HZ or less to sub), if there is a scene where the Fronts have a 70 HZ signal and the LFE track is 40 HZ, the sub obviously cannot play both signals at the same time. What happens to the 70 HZ signal?

Or are tracks not recorded this way as to cause difficulties?

If the scenario above exists in soundtracks, could I make an argument for x-over at 60 and run LFE+Main so as to not lose anyhting in the mix?


Edited by Nachosgrande (01/11/08 02:05 PM)
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#191687 - 01/11/08 02:10 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Nachosgrande]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Well... sure it can. Speakers by necessity play multiple frequencies at (just about) the same time.
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#191694 - 01/11/08 02:54 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Ken.C]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Reminds me of the old Charlie Brown cartoon where Lucy asks Schroeder to play Jingle Bells for her. He plays several very complex variations of the song for her but she keeps insisting that it's not the correct song. Finally he frustratingly pounds it out one note at a time, using just one finger.
She screams "That's it!!"

Don't want to hijack to hard so back to bass.

Can anyone confirm that a Denon (or any processor) would apply a crossover to the actual LFE channel itself in certain instances? This seems like an odd concept to me. If you had multiple crossovers set for the other speakers, what would be the rule on which number it applies to the LFE channel so as to not lose out on frequencies in between?


Edited by Murph (01/11/08 03:00 PM)
Edit Reason: added actual relevance
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#191695 - 01/11/08 02:56 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Murph]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Hell, it wouldn't even sound like one note from one instrument, it would sound like one note from a tone generator.

Flutes are said to have the least overtones (additional frequencies), but I'd wager they still have a significant amount.
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#191696 - 01/11/08 02:56 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Murph]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Otherwise it would sound like a midi file \:\)
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#191697 - 01/11/08 03:01 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: terzaghi]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Edited my last post to add a relevant question but people already out posted me in between.

Sorry but Ill repeat the question for those who might otherwise not go back and notice the edit.

............

Can anyone confirm that a Denon (or any processor) would apply a crossover to the actual LFE channel itself in certain instances? This seems like an odd concept to me. If you had multiple crossovers set for the other speakers, what would be the rule on which number it applies to the LFE channel so as to not lose out on frequencies in between?
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#191699 - 01/11/08 03:20 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Murph]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Murph you are right. It is an odd concept and I know of no receiver/processor that does that. That's why I discount that article which continues to cause confusion. Florian hasn't figured out that what applied in 2002 doesn't apply today.

As it applies to the FR and FL channels only, dolby digital also replicates the LFE track into those channels. That redirected LFE bass would be taken out so as not to duplicate it in the sub twice. When the standard was developed not everyone had subwoofers and many people had full range floorstanders hence why the LFE exists in the front channels. I doubt there is any loss of sound on any channel on any of the modern receivers and processors we own. The bigger concern is this weird large + sub setting which has the same LFE coming from speakers and subs and messes with phase and FR.
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#191702 - 01/11/08 03:30 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Murph]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Murph,

Great graphic!

In config 1; fronts, it should read 59Hz down rather than 79Hz down.

The LFE channel is NOT the subwoofer. LFE can be directed at any speaker provided that speaker can handle it. If it can't, the LFE and any other bass that the speaker can't handle, is routed to the sub using the pre-pro's bass management.

So now you need to figure out how to add that to your graphic \:\) .

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#191704 - 01/11/08 03:36 PM Re: Questions about bass management [Re: Mojo]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
I'm running my M60's as large because it helped solve a problem I was having with a null at 55-60Hz.
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