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#192564 - 01/16/08 03:31 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: skyhawk669]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Although . . . I'm not sure how 'grey' tatoo removal and plastic surgery to repair holes from random facial piercings are . . . both are covered by the Canadian system.

I guess that backs up your point about trusting the gov't to make these calls! \:\)
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Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#192566 - 01/16/08 03:40 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: skyhawk669]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Those Fraser Institute studies which Amie posted make for interesting reading. While the Canadian model is held up as the ideal by all the developed industrialized countries, back at the ranch I hear the creaking of a system bloated by excessive costs and too many inefficiencies. I also believe the state has no right prohibiting my access to additional care. In that respect Canada is alone in the world.

Slippery slope for whom? The whole country is on a slipperly slope trying to maintain this one tier plan in light of the ballooning aging population. Even Canada's enormous natural wealth won't be enough to fund that scale of care without some change.

Some food for thought from Amie's Fraser articles:

 Quote:
Canada is alone among developed nations in prohibiting private financing of medically necessary care. All of the other nations maintaining the goal of universal access to insurance allow individuals to seek care on their own terms with their own resources when they desire to do so. Again the reasoning behind introducing such a policy is simple: a public monopoly in health insurance means a more expensive and lower standard of care than would be available in a competitive marketplace.

Canada is clearly in the minority among developed nations who maintain universal approaches to insurance when it comes to cost sharing, private competition in the delivery of publicly funded services, and competition in the financing of services.

Canada’s policy approach is also at odds with those of the top performing universal access health care programs, all of whom employ all three of these policies to the advantage of patients and payers alike. Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Japan, Luxembourg, and Switzerland all deliver universal access to care without waiting lists; and all have cost sharing, private competition in the delivery of publicly guaranteed care, and private competition in the financing of medically necessary care. The same goes for Australia, Sweden, and Japan, who deliver the very best outcomes from care among universal access nations in the developed world.

Of course, proponents of the status quo continue to raise fears of the “Americanization” of Canada’s health care in response to these policy choices. That’s simply not the case: none of these policies would require abandoning Canada’s universal approach to health care. Rather, implementing these policies would allow Canada’s provinces to do a better job at delivering on the promise of universal access to high quality care in a timely fashion regardless of ability to pay.


One other item of note which is sadly confirmed yet again in these articles is that our good friends down south are out of step with the rest of the developed world by not providing some form of universal health plan.




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John

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#192567 - 01/16/08 03:49 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: jakeman]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
I'm not sure if it was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but I bet every Canadian here would agree that it's the system that is 'creaking', not the people working in it - I have always had very hard-working, respectful people administering to myself or to my family.
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#192569 - 01/16/08 04:14 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: Amie]
skyhawk669 Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 436
Loc: Austin, TX
Of course! I don't think anybody here is complaining about the people working in healthcare, their work is top notch.

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#192596 - 01/16/08 07:46 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: skyhawk669]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5415
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I'm fine with "pay extra for more service" as long as all the money goes into the same facilities. That still leaves a small slippery slope (sort of a slippery bunny hill) but only in the sense that the government could "cheap out" on what the standard plan covers in order to reduce the amount of $$ which had to be put into the system in the first place -- but that's no different from the situation today where the government decides how much money to put into health care.

The real slippery slope is where "two tier" means two different facilities, typically one profit and one non-profit, where the extra money spent for premium services does not benefit the core services.

One nice thing I see about a government run system is that people are much more comfortable making private donations to local hospitals -- no guarantee the money will be spent perfectly wisely, but at least their donations won't be helping to pad a for-profit company's bottom line.

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#192684 - 01/17/08 09:58 AM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: bridgman]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
We already have a two-tier system here in Canada. Dental and drugs are not supported by the government. I am lucky that my company pays for most of these things. However, if I was unemployed or retired without a company pension, I would have to pay for these things out of my own pocket. Has anyone ever priced out what braces for a 12 year old costs or durgs for a cancer patient. You would have to seek private insurance in these cases, unless you were very wealthy.

I think there could be a system for the rich and not so rich. If you take a person that has worked all his life and made a good living, payed off his home and has a nice next egg. Why would this person have to wait months for an MRI when he is able and willing to pay for one?

If we could set up this type of system it would help fund more MRI machines in Canada, and would reduce wait times. However both systems need to be regulated by the government to prevent the outragous spending in the US. The conversation would be like this.

"Sir, you need an MRI for you knee, you have two choices. You can wait 8 months and it's free, or you can get one tomorrow but it will cost you $1500" (not sure what the price would be).

The patient now depending on his pain and financial situation, can make a choice.

Paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#192685 - 01/17/08 10:14 AM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: Worfzara]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Addendum: Quebec has introduced a mandatory drug plan 15 years ago. If you do not have private insurance (which must be better than the public one), then you are covered by the goverment sponsered one, which works a lot like private insurance and introduces maximums like 871$ total for the year and things like that.

So far it is a HUGE success and allowed people to go back to work because they don't need to be on wellfare anymore to pay for their exensive medication. I think the whole country should follow with such (or even better ones) policies.
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E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#192758 - 01/17/08 05:11 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: Worfzara]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
 Originally Posted By: Worfzara


"Sir, you need an MRI for you knee, you have two choices. You can wait 8 months and it's free, or you can get one tomorrow but it will cost you $1500" (not sure what the price would be).

Paul


Had an MRI a couple years ago for my back. Waited about four months (on Vancouver Island) and they said that if I missed the appointment I'd have to pay for the next one at about $5000.
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#192762 - 01/17/08 05:44 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: doormat]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Wow, I guess you were on time for that one, huh. Still there are many people in this country (and others) that view $5000 like you and I view $50 or even $5. To them, it's a drop in the bucket.

I know this to be true cuz I see many exotic cars driving in Toronto every summer. If you can afford $250,000 for a ferrari, you can afford 5 grand for an MRI.

My goal is to be one of those people .... someday.

Paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#192763 - 01/17/08 05:46 PM Re: Canadian Health Care System [Re: doormat]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Wow, I guess you were on time for that one, huh. Still there are many people in this country (and others) that view $5000 like you and I view $50 or even $5. To them, it's a drop in the bucket.

I know this to be true cuz I see many exotic cars driving in Toronto every summer. If you can afford $250,000 plus for a ferrari you can only drive in the summer, you can afford 5 grand for an MRI.

My goal is to be one of those people .... someday.

Paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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