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#201587 - 03/23/08 09:32 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: myrison]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
 Originally Posted By: myrison
Thanks Mojo. To get the bass I desire from my Earthquake sub now, I already have the dial maxed out on the sub and the Denon gain at about +8.5. At that level, it is good at high volume levels, but at low volumes, it lacks the effect I'd hoped for.

I'm guessing there's not going to be a definitive way to know whether the 600 is going to be acceptable combined with my existing sub until the 600 is in my room, but from the results seen here, it looks like I'll have less output from it than I do now.

It seems like my best chance at getting similar output will be to keep the volume on the EQ sub maxed out as it is now, with the Denon gain still at +8 or higher, and the volume on the Axiom sub near minimum.

Maybe the 600 will provide so much bass that the attenuation effect on the EQ sub might not matter... I'm thinking I'll just have to get it here to know for sure.


Dual 600s kick butt. If you are into output, you will definitely get more output... up to 127db in room depending on placement. \:o I'm more concerned about the upgrade in sound quality which duals provide from greater headroom, lower distortion and smoother FR.
_________________________
John

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#201589 - 03/23/08 09:46 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: myrison]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
You will NOT need dual subs. I have a single EP600 in my 4,000 cubic foot room. This room is opened up to the rest of the house via a very large staircase. So my theatre room is in essence open to the rest of the house. A single EP600 is more than enough with toms of headroom to spare. You can sell the Earthquake sub \:\) .

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#201591 - 03/23/08 09:55 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: Mojo]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Well no one "needs" a single 600, \:\) dual subs or multiple subs for that matter. The question really is whether you want to continue to make incremental improvements in bass reproduction throughout the room.


A single 600 has plenty of output and it holds in own against the best subs out there, but it is still a single sub which can be stressed depending on the demands of the soundtrack and room acoustics. I've tested its limits plenty of times with tracks like WoTW, Pulse, FOTP, M&C. Multiples are always better regardless whether your criteria is headroom, smooth FR, less distortion, or more detailed textured bass. However to realize those benefits takes time and patience experimenting with placement and controls. Once you get them dialled in though there is no going back to single subs even in the case of a fabulous sub like the 600.

It wasn't that long ago that my HT looked like this.



_________________________
John

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#201595 - 03/23/08 10:33 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: Mojo]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Mo, I wish that Axiom would specifically state what the imput impedance for the EP600 amplifier(if operating correctly)is. I noted your measurements and calculation, and the calculation certainly seems to be in order. The measurement, however, although it's a relatively simple process, gave a very puzzling result, which would indicate an input impedance somewhere in the area of 200ohms, which is unheard of(at least until we're hearing it now). As you know, the typical input impedance of amplifiers is 10Kohms or more. Again, hope that Axiom can clarify.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#201597 - 03/23/08 10:57 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: JohnK]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Johnk,

You're saying that the output impedance of the Denon is around 500 Ohms? I can't find this spec in my Denon's manual. Maybe the problem is the cable. If it has a very high capacitance, it can load down the amp. I should repeat with and without the cable. But then again, I can successfully daisy chain my Sony to other amps.

John,

I'm disappointed with the small quantity of puny subs in your room \:\) .

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#201599 - 03/23/08 11:03 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: Mojo]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
What can I say. I had the third 600 for a while in the rear of the theatre and my brother pleaded I sell it to him before I could take the pix. However, 3 600s and 2 500s was overkill. (Even for me).

No humming by the way anywhere. And the FR was almost like the lab chart. Output was scary in demanding scenes but piano sounded delicate when I played sonatas.
_________________________
John

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#201600 - 03/23/08 11:04 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: JohnK]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks for the replies Jakeman. I think I can now stop stressing over my 600/EQ combo given your feedback and again look forward to the impending sonic boom en route to Texas in a few weeks.

I do remain very interested in Axiom's feedback to Randy's questions though. Randy, sorry for hijacking your topic. I'll now sit back and await your results from Axiom. I hope they're able to work with you to unravel the problems you're having.
_________________________
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

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#201602 - 03/23/08 11:09 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: jakeman]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
John, I think the one graph your referring to is the one from the Front Center seat with all subs active. I had the 600 up front in the center, one 350 on the right shorter wall about 6ft from the front wall, and the 2nd 350 on the left longer wall about 1/2 way back.

I've tried dozens of other placements as well. The below graph was taken from the same seat with just the 600 by itself a year ago, seems adding additional subs only conflicts with these results.

I have the lates firmware, I think you had me do this when I got the SMS-1 because of the subsonic changes. Currently, I am only using the SMS to plot graph with no EQ, the subs aren't running through it.


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#201603 - 03/23/08 11:10 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: myrison]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
The key to fulfillment with duals and multiple subs is patience. It does take time and tweaking to realize the benefits. 600s and 500s are awesome subwoofers but you've got to dial them in properly.
_________________________
John

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#201605 - 03/23/08 11:21 PM Re: EP350v2 versus EP350v3 specs [Re: SirQuack]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Randy. I remember that sweet looking graph. What we don't have to compare are measurements from the other seats which I'm certain would show smoother response with the 350s than without. Also using the 350s you have far better headroom with its attendent lower distortion. In your earlier calibration you were dialling them in -5db lower as I recall which is significant. Reads like you have found the best placement for now.

To all readers, keep in mind when looking at Randy's charts that the SMS graphical mapping function is off by 3hz for response less than 25hz ie the graph is shifted 3hz to the right of where it should be. The 600 brickwall filter should start sloping sharply at less than 19hz.
_________________________
John

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