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#200247 - 03/13/08 06:13 PM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Iron Giant...good one. We'll have to try that here.

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#200390 - 03/14/08 08:13 PM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Mojo]
Foghorn Offline
local

Registered: 07/17/04
Posts: 226
I'm not surprised that the Velodyne didn't impress. I bought the CHT-12 several years ago even though I initially wanted to buy the CHT-15 (predecessor of the DLS-5000, I think) because it was bigger, and the top of the line (at least the CHT line), and more expensive. But the CHT-12 sounded much better so that is what I bought. At this point, I'm pretty convinced that I could have done slightly better with Axiom, or SVS, or Hsu, but I'm very happy with the CHT-12.

What I find curious is that both Velodyne and Axiom seem to have a line of subwoofers where the price and size are not necessarily proportional to performance. Is there some physics (cabinet size or something) that explains this?

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#200448 - 03/15/08 05:02 AM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Foghorn]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
The cabinet size, driver size, amp power and design, it all has a relationship to one another, some products work very well together and some things are just forced to work together without great results.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#200455 - 03/15/08 11:14 AM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Fog, it may help you to understand that getting the last few Hertz out of a sub is an expensive proposition.

It takes 8 times as much power and moving air to make 20Hz sound as loud as 40Hz for example. Along with more power, this requires a larger enclosure. The challenge is of course that as you make the enclosure larger, you need even more amplifier power and a larger driver motor with greater excursion and power handling capabilities.

I'm slowly reaching the conclusion that sub sound is a matter of personal taste. Many out there for example like the sound of a "softer" sounding sub that has a lack of presence, kick/punch but nonetheless reaches down very low and tickles your gut. Others like a "harder" sub (which may or may not go down very low) that belts you in the chest.

Wouldn't it be great to have a sub where you can switch between hard and soft depending on mood and/or material?

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#200456 - 03/15/08 11:16 AM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Mojo]
zhimbo Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Hanover, New Hampshire
 Originally Posted By: Mojo


Wouldn't it be great to have a sub where you can switch between hard and soft depending on mood and/or material?


Do the Hsu VTF subs count? You can switch between "Maximum Output" or "Maximum Extension" modes.

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#200465 - 03/15/08 11:30 AM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: zhimbo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I don't know but I think in order to get the "soft" and "deep" sound, you need an "over-size", vented cabinet. It would be interesting to hear from someone that has a Hsu how this switch affects "softness"/"hardness".

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#200469 - 03/15/08 11:47 AM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Mojo]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7413
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
I've switched between the two and have heard minimal differences. I only use the sub for HT, though, so I always have it on Maximum Extension.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#200493 - 03/15/08 01:31 PM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Mojo]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7232
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
I'm slowly reaching the conclusion that sub sound is a matter of personal taste. Many out there for example like the sound of a "softer" sounding sub that has a lack of presence, kick/punch but nonetheless reaches down very low and tickles your gut.


Well said. I think that this may be the difference between the EP400 and the 350 (at least to me). I have always been more sensitive to high spls. As a kid, and even into my early 30s certain power tools (like a skil-saw) really hurt my ears. As a kid I used to leave the room whenever my dad fired up the power tools.

I wonder if the reason I think the ep400 has more kick than the ep350 is that it pushes more air at lower frequencies and I am just more sensitive to that.

I think that puts me into the 'softer sub' catagory.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#200503 - 03/15/08 02:35 PM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: fredk]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I doubt very much that the 400 pushes more air than the 350v3 even at 20Hz. I've been struggling to understand how you heard more "kick" with the 400 compared to the 350. Are you sure it was the v3 350?

Now that I think about it thogh, the other thing that may have contributed to what you were hearing was the room. I suspect the 350 has a hump at 40Hz to 60Hz (and a corresponding dip up to 40Hz). Between 20Hz to 40Hz, room gain compensates for the 350 dip in smaller rooms. The 400 on the other hand has a flat response in these same regions due to DSP compensation. So if you were in a larger room, the 350's dip wasn't being corrected by room gain and the 400 therefore had more kick because it was flat.

So what were the dimensions of the room?

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#200506 - 03/15/08 03:50 PM Re: EP350v3, EP600 and 15" Velodyne [Re: Mojo]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7232
Loc: Canada
This one puzzles me too, though my observation was consistant with what Debbie at Axiom expected.

Was it a 350, gee, I dunno... You'd think the folks at Axiom knew which was which... ;\) Yes it was definately a 350 v3.

Maybe you were listening to a broken 400??? Maybe I am super sensitive to some particular low frequency??? grasping...

Their listening room is 12 x 20 x 7.

All I know is that (for music) the 350 at 1/2 volume didn't give me that preassure feeling on my ears compared to the 400 at minimum volume. It was quite distinct.

I wish I was closer to you guys so I could listen some more to the two subs.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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