As I've mentioned in the past, I'm renting half of this house from my parents. Currently I'm on the ground floor, and they're in the basement. They're using my rent money to make renovations to the house. My dad wants to rent this house later on so he'll have some extra income. I plan on renting the whole thing for a while, but we're making the ground floor and basement entirely separate in anticipation of him renting to other people in the future.

We just made a new stairwell (well, it's still in the process) to the basement so the existing one in the house can be taken out, which will also add floorspace to both levels. However, I don't think any of the renovations have gone as well as I'd like them to, so I thought I should run any more major changes by you guys just so we may avoid some pitfalls. I'll draw up the current layout as well as the basic plan for the new layout (major wall to be knocked out to make most of the basement a big, open area--not the dedicated home theater I want, but my dad won't budge). I look forward to any feedback. In the meantime, my dad's already asking me about flooring, so I'll start with that.

What would you do for flooring? I'm hoping for thin (as the basement is short, and it's going to have a suspended ceiling, making it even shorter), durable, easy to maintain. Of course not so expensive would be nice, since I have other priorities. I don't want to carpet, but rather just use rugs.

So what do you think? Any strong opinions? It would be nice to be able to respond to my father being somewhat informed. Thanks for any advice you may have!

I'll be posting a lot more questions as the endeavor progresses.

All right, I guess I don't need advice on the flooring right away. It sounds like he wants to concentrate on some other stuff first. I would still like to know more than what I can glean through the little online guides to flooring, but at least now there's no time pressure. I'm just scared of everything being done without enough planning. My dad can have a tendency to do that. Me, I'd rather have everything planned out beforehand so it's done right the first time and the end result matches the original vision.

What exactly do you need help with? This is a pretty vast subject.

Just ignore me for now. When I have specific questions, I'll pop back in here. Before I even ask anything specific, I'm hoping to have the layout drawn up as well as list the goals for the space. Thanks!

I now wished I used bamboo. Renewable resource, durable, and looks cool.
Was impossible to get here 2 years ago without paying big premiums, now all the flooring stores carry it.

Yeah, bamboo is awesome. Makes great cutting boards, too.

I used this bamboo when I remodeled our bedroom iFloor
Very durable,inexpensive, great looking and not to difficult to install.

My best friend went with bamboo in his basement. I'll have to look into it.

I'm going to revive this thread, but I don't know how much of what has already been said is going to be relevant. My dad's going to want to do more work again soon, so I wanted to mock up a plan of the layout. Thankfully, one of my former coworker's friends just got her Bachelor of Architecture degree, and, unable to find work in her field so far, she's now working in our department, and she was hungry for a project in which she could employ some of her knowledge. I suggested I may need her services in order to draw up the layout of my basement so I could share with you guys and get your feedback. She came over tonight and made a really fast, not-to-scale drawing of the basic layout with the measurements, then made a model in Google SketchUp Pro with the anticipated layout (which she'll refine after some more time, but I thought I'd jump the gun to give you all an idea of what my space might turn out to look like). I can't give you the current layout at the moment, but I'll post the few pictures of the SketchUp model that she emailed me, and I'll describe what I can of what's different from the current layout.



Currently, there's actually a wall where it shows the beam over the couch, and that beam actually runs full across the basement, supported by probably three beams. There are two in the wall that we're planning on knocking down, and she's going to calculate whether or not the beam that currently exists where we'd like the seating to be can be moved to the extreme right before the ledge around the perimeter. Her estimation is that it should be feasible, which would certainly be nice. Otherwise, I may not be able to get away with two rows of seating, since a beam could interfere with the people in the rear seating.

The bedroom, bathroom, and kitchenette area are not currently divided like that. The bedroom is actually even tinier right now, since there's another stairwell coming down the right side of that space, which the one in the mock-up replaces. The bedroom also does not open directly into the bathroom like that. There's empty space between the two.

She was thinking the heavy curtain idea would be best for blocking the stairwell entrance during movie watching.





Hopefully this gives you enough of an idea of my current plan so you can tear it apart.

Wow, what a great program. Beam supports are a big hassle in basements. Looks like your layout would work but are you planning to isolate the kitchenette from the HT area with a curtain or something else to define the area better?
Don't mind me I wish I could do something in my basement.
Mel N.

Looks good, CV. What are the dimensions of the HT area? Are you going to ceiling mount the QS8 near the kitchen?

Yeah, they're going to be ceiling-mounted, and yeah, I suppose I should have some sort of table to dine at behind the theater seating somewhere, huh?

I didn't have the measurements handy, so I had to remeasure the area for the home theater. Just counting floorspace, it's about 14' wide by 28' long (from ledge to stairwell). Yeah, not good numbers if you're considering a perfectly rectangular room, but does the space above the ledge and opening into the kitchenette make the acoustics complex enough that it might not be a problem?

No, I hadn't considered anything for really sectioning that area off. My major concern was the stairwell.

I would say it's less of a problem with the space opening into the kitchen. Of course, what other anomalies may crop up is another issue!

One of my great regrets in life (so far) is not making myself rich enough to afford a brand new, custom-designed home.

Wow, almost exactly a year since I last posted in this thread. The metal skeleton for the stairwell was just put in today, so I thought I'd share a couple of pictures.

Just leave it like that to keep drunk people out.







Or in.

Yes, you're all invited to be trapped in my basement.

Add steps but make them raise up to form a slide at the touch of a button.

I would make the trip to see that.

That would be completely awesome.

Dang, I knew there was a good reason for having kids...

Another vote for leaving the stair risers as they are, but I think you should add a pond with an alligator under the stairs for motivation.

This is shaping up to be the Best Theater EVER!

I vote for alligator pond, too.

I'm more of a sulphuric acid kind of person. It leaves no evidence.


Uhh, that's what I've been told.

I think I'm going to have a tiny system under the stairs. I could have my nice big system out in the open for me, and then if I invite a friend over for multiplayer gaming, they can be sent to the tiny stair room. But at least it would be a good excuse to get some M0s, right?

Okay, so that would be way down on the list, but I have to use that space for something more fun than just storing my vacuum and stuff, right?

Spikes. Gotta have spikes.

Sharks with ""Laaaaazzzeeerssss"".

In regards to the concrete ledge that runs around the perimeter of the basement, is there a good reason to not put one of the horizontal EP800s on it behind the screen, even though the screen won't be acoustically transparent? Does the fact that it's a subwoofer and not a normal channel make it a non-issue? It would be better if I could put it up and behind so I have more room for center channel and screen. Just curious.

I think it depends on how far the drivers are from the screen material. If they are to close it will probably push that part of the screen in a and out a little which might be noticeable while veiwing. In my apartment when I had my EP500 about 3 feet in front of my seat I could feel it pushing air past my legs though at that distance I doubt it would have been noticeable pushing against a screen. I think even an AT screen might have the same problems up close given the amount of air I imagine the EP800s push. Only way to know for sure is to try it out.

Not sure if it would works but I imagine the drivers could be pointed up if normal positioning is to close.

Good points. What if it's a solid screen and not a fabric? I'm not sure how much distance there would be between the drivers and the screen, but I'm sure I have space to play with.

Really not sure. I imagine with a solid screen as long as it was well anchored you wouldn’t get much movement unless it was very close to the divers but I really don’t know. I’m also not sure how much impact if any a solid screen would have on the higher frequencies your sub would be putting out say around 80Hz. You may loose some mid bass punch with a solid barrier between you and the sub but I don’t think it would have any effect on the deeper bass.

Can you set up a simulation and give it a try to see what happens?

It's a possibility. I'll see.

I'd include the AS-EQ1 in the simulation. That'll give you an objective view of what's actually happening.

This is where it would be handy to have a laptop.

Also, I think the Room EQ Wizard software would work better in this case. I only get the graphs for the AS-EQ1 when I go through the entire calibration process. One of these days, I will invest in a good sound card, microphone, laptop, and learn how to use REW.

Since I don't know, exactly, when I'll be able to set up a simulation, I posed the question to Axiom in case they've already researched the outcome of such positioning. I imagine any performance impact would be minimal. A lot of people don't have their subwoofer drivers facing into the room, including (presumably) all people with downward-firing subs. It's not exactly the same, but then subs are often placed between furniture, so there are usually significant physical barriers in most rooms.

I know, I know. You still want me to do it so I can see what it does in my specific room. Taskmasters, the lot of you!

While your experimenting ever thought of ceiling mounting it above and slightly in front of your seating aimed at you. That might get you some near field midbass punch. The floor would also work but wouldn’t look nearly as cool.

Ha ha. I hadn't considered that, no, but you do have me considering Buttkickers.

Hey, I'll have a party once I'm actually able to move my system into the basement, and you're all invited to help me move my subwoofers around and get them situated just right.

By the way, can you remind me what, precisely, your Buttkicker setup consists of?

I have the Buttkicker LFE Kit.

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/home_theater/products/bk_lfe_kit.htm

However other varieties are available as are other brands. I got a smoking deal on the LFE Kit locally from Fry’s Electronics because the department manager wanted to get rid of it since it wasn’t selling.

I only have the one transducer but up to 4 can be connected to one amp. Also any amp powerful enough can drive it if someone has a spare amp laying around however, other transducers can be easier to drive with an extra amp. The advantage I’ve found with using the dedicated amp are the controls especially the variable high frequency cutoff which allows me to control what frequencies get through to the transducer down to 40Hz. I generally leave it at 40Hz but there are some movies you would think have really low bass but actually don’t so I need to bump it up for those. This filter stops the “voice in butt” syndrome many other brands suffer from because they reproduce a wider range of frequencies. Also minimizes all but the lowest bass in the music from reaching your butt.

IMO one regular transducer is more than enough for several seats if they are connected rigidly in some way. It worked great on my futon in the apartment and now I just have it attached to a 2x4 sitting on the ground with the back legs of my seats sit on top of the 2x4. I was going to build a riser but when I found the seats were high enough not to need one to see over the M80s I figured I’d try out a simple approach and it works great. IMO it actually works better this way than directly attached to the futon. The system is more than powerful enough to shake the 2x4 and attached seats w/o any problems. Plus having it laying along the ground seems to absorb some to the energy so it’s a little less sensitive to changes in power making it easier to get the “volume” right. I also think having it on the 2x4 running along the ground “tightens up” the LFE by dampening any resonating. I have no doubt I could build a riser for two rows of seats and 1 LFE kit would be powerful enough to shake the whole thing as long as it was built rigidly enough.

Some, I imagine most, people turn them up to high especially to demo so people who haven’t had a chance to play with one might thing they are “just to much” or gimmicky, but I can assure you that when calibrated with the system it gives a very “lifelike” feel. Ask Sean how it felt when they were jumping the broken stairs in the Mines of Moria. IMO the Buttkicker enhances scenes like that in a way no subwoofer can w/o over exaggerating the higher bass frequencies.

Stop by and try it out some time. Maybe I can get Sean to do demo and review of it at some point.


Almost forgot. For those who poo poo the extra LFE outputs on some receivers I can say that the extra one makes using a Buttkicker much easier by allowing power adjustments using the receivers remote and separate from the real sub. Before I if I boosted the sub in the receiver it also boosted the Buttkicker which often made it overbearing.

Thanks for the details, Dean. I'll have to get one at some point. It sounds like it adds to the experience quite nicely. What exactly goes into the calibration of it? You mentioned that people turn it up too high, but how do you know the proper level?

I'm glad it comes with its own amplifier.

Good point on the extra LFE output. I'll make sure my next preamp or receiver has at least one extra output.

I thought the Buttkicker enhanced the Mines of Moria scene very nicely. Like Dean said, I believe proper set-up is the key. Set too high and the Buttkicker simply becomes too noticeable. They way Dean had it run was subtle, but effective.

Here's Axiom's response to the subwoofer-behind-the-screen configuration option:

I really liked the idea of movable partition walls to section off the kitchen area and make the theater area of the basement rectangular, but after spending some time actually looking at the layout, there's no way to make that rectangle happen. I still may want a way to section off that area as well as the opening to the stairwell, but I don't know how much it would really improve acoustics. Hmmm....

While it probably won’t change the acoustics much going with a “curtain wall” like I have does a great job creating the illusion of a rectangular room and in turn blocking out all visual distractions so ones focus is primarily on the screen.

So even if you can’t swing a partition wall a curtain wall may help.

Good point. That option is still on the table. I will certainly give Dazian a look when I get to that point.

I'm just going to ramble for a little bit.

My dad has decided to make taking out the walls the next step. We're putting in a new beam, replacing the wood beam which protrudes lower into the room than the rest of the ceiling, and which requires several support posts. The new beam will be a metal I-beam which won't hang lower (or so much lower so as to interfere with the suspended ceiling, anyway) than the floor joists, and it will span a much greater distance without needing a support post, pretty much making the theater area wide open for seating options. The support post that will remain will be out into the room slightly, but I'm glad we get to remove the other two posts which would be more annoying.

He decided to remove all of the walls to tile the floor across the entire basement the same so if he wants to remove or change the position of the walls in the future, there won't be disparities in the floor to deal with. As for the wall I want to go back up, it will allow for slightly more room in the theater/living area and cut into the bedroom a little more, since I really only use my bedroom for sleeping and would rather have more wiggle room for speaker placement options. The final dimensions of the room will be roughly 28'x18'x6.5'. I'm still not a fan of how low the ceiling will be. It won't scrape my own head or that of any of my friends, but I imagine it won't be so great for acoustics. I'll do what I can with some of the ceiling tiles. I'm still pretty dumb about room treatments. It's something I'll be asking for advice on, I'm sure.

Anyway, that's the latest news on that. I'm open to any brainstorms any of you may have.

There are various treatment options which are designed to be installed in T-bar drop ceilings. If you get some designed to diffuse sound, they won't deaden the room (like absorbers will), but the at the same time the ceiling won't act as a reflection point.

Also, if you're installing left and right walls, sacrifice a little width in the back, to make the room taper, like a parallelogram when viewed from above. This will go a long way to preventing standing waves. Oh, duh, I didn't think of the perfect example, like Axiom's speaker cabinets. Also the false walls will make it easy to fish wire for the speakers in the rear of the room.

Stiff walls are a key to allowing the room to be pressurized, and accentuating bass notes. When constructing walls, build the stud frame, place glue (like Liquid Nails) on the studs before screwing the drywall to it. After that sets, screw a second layer of drywall over the first with another layer of glue in between. Offset the seams of the drywall panels so the gaps in the first layer are in the middle of the sheets of the second. Finish the second layer with the usual mud (don't worry about finishing the first).

It would be nice if you could construct the ceiling in the same manner, but as long as the floor above the drop ceiling is solid you should still be able to compress the room's airspace--you'll have the subs to do it.

Oh, forgot about the doors for the room. Find solid core doors (wood, fire doors will usually be good). Have someone run a router around all four edges (stopping just before the latch and hinge mount points) so there is a 1/4" grove in the middle of all edges. Make sure it'll be installed into a frame with four sides (not open on the bottom, but with the little bump). Into the routed grove, glue industrial grade felt. This way the door will provide a bit of a seal when closed, and also be ridged on it's own.

>>Stiff walls are a key to allowing the room to be pressurized, and accentuating bass notes.

This is another of those "totally obvious after someone says it, but not obvious at all until then" things. Thanks !

Thanks for the ideas, Chris. I'll show my dad your posts.

I assume you mean trapezoid, not parallelogram. At most, I could start angling one of the side walls at some point. If you look earlier in the thread, you can see a (former) friend's mock-up of what the basement would look like. Some of our ideas have strayed since then, but the basic layout is pretty close.

The right wall is the basement's concrete perimeter. It already has the 2x4s, insulation, and drywall from a while ago. I'm sure we want something like that on the face of the concrete all of the way around, but I'm not sure if there's a more ideal insulation/drywall combo than what's up. There is already a left wall up in the existing layout, but it will be taken out to do the flooring, then put back up in whatever way we decide to put it back up. As you can see, however, the wall doesn't extend the whole length of the basement, instead opening into the little kitchen area. Even if I angle the wall, it will still have to stop before that kitchen area, and I'm not sure how much benefit it would be versus the space lost.

Yeah, trapezoid. Oh no! Have all the advanced Maths pushed basic Geometry out of my head?

I forgot about the over-all shape of the area. The already irregular shape will help defeat the standing waves, so the angled walls are not as needed.

Although, if you're building walls, it's not that much more expensive to do more at the same time. Does the kitchen area have to be open? In the original sketches what is the big, solid blue area between the bedroom and the theater?

The blue space between the bedroom and theater is the bedroom closet.

The kitchen area does not have to be open, but physically looking at the space, it's hard to imagine wanting it to be walled off since it's so small. I think this is one of those compromises I'm going to have to make.

Cool advice on the doors Chris.

Also CV to add what Chris said on wall construction, if you double up the drywall, it can also help to use a different thickness of drywall for the 2nd layer. Or if you only do one layer use the thicker 5/8ths. They are much stiffer than the standard 1/2 inch.

I know, I know, I have the slowest basement renovation of anyone in the universe. I'm curious if any of you have had experience digging a basement deeper to add height. I know the low ceilings (probably only around 6 1/2 feet high after the suspended ceilings are in) are going to bug me, so I figured I'd better at least look into getting some more height down there.

My dad wants to eventually be able to rent out the basement as a separate living space from the ground floor. I thought he said there wasn't a minimum height requirement, but that's something I should make him double-check, I think. If we need more height to satisfy a local code, then we'd need to dig the whole basement deeper. If the height isn't an issue, then I'd be satisfied only digging deeper for the theater. I'm just wondering how much of an ordeal it would be. We'd have to hire someone with some real knowledge to oversee, but I'd have no problem doing a ton of the hauling out of the dirt and what not. I was hoping someone here might have actually done it at some point and could offer a little guidance up-front.

I'm really going to try to push to have the basement ready for my invasion by Summer. The new Axiom speakers are going to want a bigger, nicer room to play in, I think.

Who is Summer? You haven't told us about her yet.

Are you sure your dad isn't looking to rent it out to someone else now?

That's all I have: Batting "0" in helpful responses to you this morning.

Charles, I'm pretty sure my basement renovation of just one room is taking just as long as yours, if not longer. Seems to me we started at nearly the same time. My weekends always seem busy and It's been such a busy couple of years my evenings are mostly about regenerating what little energy I can through exercise or the total opposite of it, depending on the day.

I have no idea how much trouble that sort of a job would get into but I have only ever seen it done where they raise the house up to add or replace a foundation. Somehow, they have to have room to get heavy equipment under there so I'd say you and your parents would be looking at a major life disruption for the duration and I expect the cost would not be worth the effort unless it was absolutely necessary.

But hey, that's just conjecture on my part. Hopefully, someone can come along to prove that I was a pessimist and it can be done much easier than that.

I would also like to add some useless info
Your sewer line and your basement drain lines. How do they run from the house? If you dig deeper than the piping heading out from your house (especially the basement drains) what do you plan to do with these lines? I agree with Murph that the easiest solution would be to raise the house a couple of feet.

You think "Your" basement project is going slow.....

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I still need to talk to my dad about it, see what he knows that I don't.

I just thought I'd post some pictures now that the basement is mostly gutted.



This first pic shows the view from the bottom of the stairwell entrance. The far wall is where my screen and front speakers will be.



The second pic shows the stairwell entrance.


The third pic shows the left wall that the first pic didn't show, but that wall is actually being moved 32" further to the left, into the bedroom.



The fourth pic is just showing more of where the bedroom is. The bathroom is behind the wall with the TV on it.





The sixth pic shows the window they cut for the bedroom.



Just another shot of the bedroom.



This last shot shows the corner where my kitchen area will be.

Also, does anyone have experience with horizontal water heaters? It seems like they're out there, and having one would help us save space in the bathroom. I'm just curious about any drawbacks.

And of course I'm open to suggestions on anything, since I still have so many directions I could go on most of the details.

Hey! Where's the gator pit?

Behind the secret wall that hides the Regina Shrine.

And/or Regina, once he gets close enough to her.

I thought the shackles were just decorative?

Win.

Woot. Another reno project.
I know nothing of heaters I'm afraid.

We use a wall-hung water heater - is that what you mean? The Baxi Luna, I think it's called. It's really small and hangs . . . uh . . . on the wall, as you may have guessed.

Could be. The first one in my search was actually ceiling-hung, but maybe I'll find more options by searching for wall-hung units. You can see the ledge that runs around most of the perimeter. It would simply be handier to stuff the water heater up into that space than keep it taking up floor space. How do you like your wall-hung?

Charles, it probably doesn't matter if it's ceiling hung or wall hung. As long as it's well hung.

Oh, come on! You were all thinking it.

It's all about the mounting.

Amie, I finally looked up Baxi Luna. I was thinking just of heating water, not heating the house. When I did my brief searching, I was thinking of something like this:

Hubbell Ceiling Hung Horizontal Water Heater

Of course I'm interested in tankless, but I don't think I'd find it satisfactory in the winter. Having a tank like the one I linked to would at least let us put it in a space that otherwise wouldn't really be utilized.

Since we're closer to deciding on flooring, would you guys still recommend bamboo? I like the look, but it sounds like it would be hard for me to choose between engineered and stranded, and I'm not sure what the cost difference is between the bamboo flooring made without much adherence to standards and that made with stricter regulation. My dad is hesitant to install any type of wood flooring in a basement that has flooded a couple of times when the sump has backed up. Not terrible odds in 29 years of living in this house, but still something to perhaps warrant a little paranoia. In any case, I thought I'd ask again since time has passed since the last time I asked. The plan was to floor the whole basement at once with the same flooring, since he wants it easier to move walls later on if he feels the need to change the layout.

CV, not sure how much this will help, but FWIW, I installed engineered bamboo in my basement office and love it. Very durable so far. Actually, this was the last flooring in the house that went down after renovation, but in retrospect I would have used it in other areas as well if I had known how well it worked. It was kind of an experiment that ended well. And it was considered ok for below grade installation as it was an engineered floor.

Cheers,

Dan, I appreciate the feedback. My dad seems set on some kind of tile, not wood, but I'll mention bamboo to him again. I know I like the look of it in my friend's basement.

Does anyone have any links handy for equipment closet builds? Beyond the convenience of having the gear to the side of the seating, as well as improved aesthetics, my goals are to isolate the sound of the gear and provide effective cooling. I'm still foggy on how to accomplish this, so if anyone knows of great references for these questions, I'd be indebted.

I suppose the heat from the gear shouldn't be an issue since I will most likely keep an open back for easy access to the connections. The room behind the equipment closet is my bedroom, and I'm not too concerned with how things look in there. I'll just need a nice-looking glass door for the front that will create a nice seal to keep noise out of the home theater area. Any recommendations there?

I'm thinking I'll have the closet wide enough for two columns of shelving. I plan on having a lot of gear in there, so I'll need the space. Of course, some of the gear I won't need access to from the home theater side, so I guess we'll see.

I'm also concerned about refrigerator noise, since the kitchen area is part of the space, and I won't really be able to isolate it. I suppose I'll just need to read enough reviews to see what the quiet ones are.

A designer is supposed to be coming by on Friday to help us work out our plans a bit more. What are some things I might not be considering that I can bring up?

A few things learned from computer racks more so than audio, but still apply

Rear access to the wiring closet will prove super valuable.

You pay a bit more for proper racks with metal, mesh shelving but it helps a lot with cooling as many items have vents on the bottom.

You can sometimes find used server racks for cheap that might fit in your space. Nice because some have built in cooling and some are filled with AC power access up anbd down. However, they are often still very overpriced for used because they sell fast. Probably overkill unless you stumble upon a bargain.

Getting a rack that allows for rack mounting is nice if you have gear that can utilize it.

If you need extra cooling (and extra never hurts) you can get very quiet fans if you do your research. Quiet PC fans can be a very inexpensive option if $ are tight, if properly located.

As per above, if you are buying additional cooling, plan you airflow accordingly. Having every fan blow inward at your gear will be much weaker than having air blown in and also blown out, making a constantly moving stream of fresh air.

You would need or benefit greatly from some sort of RF to IR Blaster device, but I'm sure you knew that.

Plan your wiring. Keep it as structured as possible. Nothing is worse than a peicemealed, rat's nest of wiring. Keeping all the AC cords running down one side away from the audio cable on the other gives good peace of mind, if nothing else, on the interference/shielding front.

Most importantly, have as many glowing, blue LEDs as possible.

I hear filling your fridge with Beer reduces fridge noise as doesn't have to work as hard cooling the empty space. At least that is what I keep telling my wife.

Excellent advice, Murph!

Just two tidbits- It's probably obvious, but if you want to see up fans for both intake and output, look for a rack with sides. If you're NOT going to power-ventilate, get a rack without sides or with removable sides.

If you can't access the back through a door, you can put the rack on wheels by either building a platform with low-profile, heavy duty casters or by using a workshop tool mobile base. I've used both in two different situations with two different racks.

Well, it's a scientific fact that water has a much higher thermal mass (or, more accurately, specific heat) than air. Since beer is mostly water, it's a perfectly logical conclusion that your fridge will hold a steadier temperature with fewer cooling cycles when filled with beer.

As always, Murph, I appreciate the thoroughness of your replies. On this point, I was wondering if you could post links to any specific examples of the racks or shelving you're thinking of.

As far as airflow, I was thinking of a fan blowing in through a vent at the bottom and out through another vent at the top... on the bedroom side. That way I could have the bedroom side closed up instead of leaving it open like I was originally thinking, and I would simply have a cover to remove or something when I need to access all of the connections.

Good call on wire management. That's one of my major goals, since they've always been kind of a mess in my systems so far. I've never had a media closet before, so I'm excited.

I hadn't done much considering of an RF to IR blaster. I'll look into it when the time comes.

Just talking to talk. I'll never be as detailed as certain other members whose home theaters I'll never come close to.

My dad met with a designer, and they're talking about finishing the whole basement at one go. My dad's going to get the loan to pay for it, and my rent will basically be paying off the loan for the next three years. This will mean a major increase in my rent, at least for those three years, but if it gets me the living space I want, and soon, I'll bite the bullet. But if my rent is going up, I want to fit as much of what I want done into this remodel as possible.

Sooo... since it's not going to be a gradual thing, and I need to map out what I want done with haste, I'm simply trying to pool some of the ideas I've come across for the designer/construction company to look over, and see what can be achieved.

The basement's ceiling is one problem. Since the ground floor will be a separate rental space (after my parents eventually move out), doing nothing for sound isolation probably isn't a great idea. My dad is set on suspended ceiling throughout the basement for the ease of getting to wiring, which I can also see the benefit of, as often as I may want to change gear and cabling for my home theater. However, the basement is already short, and this makes it even shorter, around 79" high with the suspended ceiling in place. It would probably have to be even lower if thicker-than-standard ceiling tiles were used. Is anyone familiar with sound isolation options for suspended ceilings? Since the upstairs is going to go through an overhaul at some point, too, do you think it would be easier to try for soundproofing from above, perhaps with lots of this?: Sound Barriers. We would still want to caulk everything we could from below, right?

For sound treatment, not isolation, do you think bass traps are worth attempting when you see that concrete ledge that runs along the front and right walls of the home theater area? The front two corners could be done, and some material could definitely be stuffed into the right rear corner, but the kitchen area in the rear left obviously wouldn't allow for one. If you still think it would be worthwhile, then what kind of bass traps would you go for? Something premade, like MegaTraps by RealTraps? Or should I have them make me something here? I'm not sure how much further I'd want to go with sound treatment.

They may be designing the media closet, but I'll definitely provide input based on Murph's suggestions.

I'm also hoping to make the custom shelving along the ledge (for music, movies, books) part of the remodel. I just think I'd benefit from having as much as I can made part of the initial design, since they'll probably have a better idea of how to tie it all together visually better than I would by trying to tack it on later. Oh, and the support beam will kind of be out in the middle a bit since the wall that it's close to now is moving further to the left, which I mentioned in the post with the pics.

Final dimensions for the basic rectangle (kitchen area alters that corner) will be very close to 18' by 28.5'. As I said, ceiling height will be 79". From ceiling to top of the concrete ledge (after being topped with something) is around 28".

My dad has been taking my power needs seriously. He installed 20 amp spec grade receptacles all the way around. I may end up with a 30 amp receptacle in the media closet if I get the UPS I want.

As I said, a lot of this is simply me rambling, but of course I welcome any feedback you may have!

Just some links collected in one place for my own benefit, but also to give an idea of what I'm going for. Obviously, not everything will be financially feasible.

For the media closet:

Tripp Lite SmartOnline 3kVA On-Line Doub...V, NEMA outlets

Tripp Lite 24-outlet Vertical Power Stri...ing L5-20P Plug

Build Your Own Rack Cabinet

So Cool (equipment closet ventilation)


For the stairwell:

Panelfold® Acoustical Folding Partitions

Residential climbing walls


Sound isolation/treatment:

ASC Window and Door Soundproofing

Auralex Construction Products


Media shelving:

Rakks

ISS Designs Shelving

Boltz 20 Shelf Modular Steel Bookcase

For the kitchen, does anyone have links to large, affordable sinks and proven faucets with pull-down sprayers?

I would look for a faucet that has magnets to hold the pull-down securely in place when stowed. I didn't spring for that feature when I replaced my kitchen faucet and the pull-out part didn't stow as securely over time. I paid <$150 for the faucet, so better quality non-magnetic faucets might be better.

This one, for example, advertises good retraction. It also has a pause feature on the pull-down, so if you've not right by the sink, you can stop the flow of water easily.

Thanks, Peter! That helps.

Just more brainstorming.... I think instead of a normal dining room table, I'm going to have two long tables made custom that have spaces below them for holding PCs or video game consoles. The tables will face each other, and on the bottoms of the far sides of the table will be power strips. I'll keep the look as simple as possible, but of course I'll want it to match the rest of the basement. Perhaps bench seating, if that can be comfortable for extended LAN gaming sessions. I'll have ethernet jacks on the wall that the tables will be pushed up against. A bookcase may provide some separation between this dining/gaming area and the theater area. The space under the stairs will also be its own computer/gaming desk. I'll have to play with the space to see how I can get this to work. I know it'll work now, with my 60" screen, but once I move to a projector, I'm not sure what size screen I'll end up with, and how far back I'll need the seating. I'm also hoping to somehow mount the rear surrounds to the bookcase instead of ceiling-mounting them like I originally planned.

I've never actually hosted a LAN party, but I've always wanted the capability.

For the media closet, since I was thinking I would want it wide enough to accommodate two shelf spaces, I might want half to be actual rackmount, and the other half just normal open shelving.

I bought "industrial" USB 3.0 hubs to be attached to the theater seating riser, for whatever peripherals I may want running from the gear in the media closet to the seating. One for my PC, one for my Xbox 360. I seem to prefer using the wired Xbox 360 controllers versus the wireless since battery life is not an issue, and I've never really minded the cord.

I've decided not to put subwoofer jacks around the room, as I'm not sure on final placement, and I think I'll be fine with paintable surface-mount raceways (or something along the floor) for the cables after I do find the best locations. I'd also want to wire for both RCA and XLR ends if I did the subwoofer jacks, and that seemed like a lot of hassle.

The Kinect may be an issue, since that should still be at the front of the room. The official extension cable for it extends the length to 20', but that might only get it to the left edge of the front of the room. Obviously, I'd want it closer to the center of the display. It's $50 for the official extension cable, too, and I'm not sure why I wouldn't just try a longer, non-sanctioned USB cable. I'm sure I'd be able to tell pretty quickly whether the increased length was affecting play.

I sure am looking forward to experimenting with placement of the LFR1100s. I'm looking forward to a lot more experimenting in general, now that I'll have more space, and the media closet will make the backs of each piece of equipment easily accessible.

I've been looking forward to this for a long time, so I'm really anxious to see progress on the whole project soon. We still need to meet again with the first designer who stopped by. We're waiting on a quote from a second guy who can at least do the bathroom for us. Hard to be patient.

Instead of home theater seating, I think I'm going to opt for actual movie theater seating for the front row. I've always found them comfortable enough, and they're a better deal. I still need to figure out which brand and model I'm going to get, though. I just emailed the local theater whose seating I like the most, so hopefully they can get back to me with what seating they use. Since they're working on a new location, I also asked if, on the off-chance, I could have my seats added to their order, and I would buy from them. Ha ha. Worth a shot, right?

The seats do have high backs, which I hope won't interfere with the surround at all. I always thought it would be cool if theater seating had removable headrests, like in a car, for the people who want unobstructed audio. I've never found any that has that.

Of course, I could always just by car seats... if I could find any that would look like they fit the decor.

Oh, and I found out from perusing their Facebook page that they do intend to have Dolby Atmos surround, so I'm excited about that.

In case anyone was curious, here is the USB hub I ordered two of:

Mountable 4 Port Rugged Industrial SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Hub

The StarTech name doesn't do a lot for me, but I figured I'd give them a shot, anyway. I expect them to arrive on Monday, so I'll let you know what the build quality is on them, assuming my inexperienced eye can discern.

Wow, they emailed back already and said they had ordered too many chairs for their existing theater, so there are some available. Only $150 per seat!

Awesome!

I WAS going to write that you asking them for help in seating so you could set up your own theater is a little like when customers call me to ask which editing program they should buy instead of hiring me to do their editing!

Ha ha. I had a similar thought when I was composing my my message, but I decided to not have shame.

The pantry and bedroom closet were removed, and the floor joists that weren't there due to the former stairwell were put in. The wall there is still coming down and being moved 32" to the left.





I took a couple of shots of this corner because I'm wondering if I should try to use this narrow empty section as some kind of bass trap, or would it not be worthwhile, since there's still that small room under the stairwell that is acoustically the true corner?





And there are two shots of the stairwell just to show why I'd like a climbing wall. It seems like the best way to make all of that wall space not seem like a waste. Even if it doesn't make it into this renovation, I definitely want to do it at some point.

You should put the alligator pit right below the climbing wall.

You guys won't let it go, will you? You're like one of my alligators with a torso.

I'll have you know it took me an hour to type that post with my little alligator arms.

Plus, I kept hitting my head against the monitor.

The build quality seems just fine. I guess I'll know even more over time, and after I attach them to the riser when the time comes.

Okay, rackmount experts, do you think I'll be okay getting this cabinet and these shelves?:

StarTech.com 36U Adjustable 4 Post Server Equipment Open Frame Rack Cabinet 4POSTRACK36 (Black)

Tripp Lite SRSHELF4PHD Rack Enclosure Cabinet Heavy Duty Fixed Shelf 250 Pound Capacity

Raxxess RAX Unitray Universal Rack Tray UNS1

Yeah, all that looks good.

I don't know personally about StarTech, but all my rack gear at home at work is either from Tripp-Lite or Raxxess (Chief Manufacturing).

Thanks. The reason I'm looking at StarTech and not Tripp Lite is simply because I'm thinking 36U is right for the low ceiling in the basement, and the Tripp Lite options on Amazon.com seem to go from 25U to 45U.

We have the 45U at work. Actually, two of them bolted together. They are a bit large.

If I had the height for it, I'd totally go for a 45U.

Another thing that's probably good about the StarTech, is that it looks less deep than the Tripp-Lite. The ones we have take every bit of most extendable rack rails to reach from the front to rear posts, and then there's two feet of space behind the back of the equipment. It's nice for wiring, but the footprint really dominates a room.

Oh, nice. I still have time to change my mind since I'm still not sure when, exactly, it's all happening, but for now you've given me confidence.

We still haven't heard back from the designer from the first construction place we contacted, which isn't cool. They've been in business for 52 years and have drool-worthy photos of work they've done, so I was excited to see what they could do for us. Plus, they would have been able to do basically everything, so it would go nice and quick.

Another guy came who specializes in bathrooms and works with a guy who does kitchens. I suppose those are the two areas we would need the most help with. The pictures in the catalog for the bathroom stuff look nice, but I guess I'm not too particular about the bathroom. Clean and functional and bright works for me.

The catalogs with the kitchen stuff, on the other hand, have me pretty excited. This is the company the guy uses:

Bellmont Cabinet Company

I'd probably go for the 1600 series to save money, and it would still be nicer than anything I've had before. The optional storage solutions look pretty slick.

I'm still hoping to hear back from the first place, but if we have to do it piecemeal from different contractors, I'm optimistic.

It looks like I can actually fit the 42U StarTech rack cabinet. I read the length under "Technical Details" as 82.00 inches, but in the product dimensions, it's actually at 78 inches. 82 must be how long it is boxed? In any case, StarTech's website also lists it as 78", so I think I'm good. We could still fit it if it was 82" since we don't need the drop ceiling to extend into the media closet, naturally. Up to the joists is 83", and the addition of tile to the floor isn't going to raise it a full inch.

So I think I'm going to plan on two 42U StarTech units side-by-side in the closet. I'm thinking I'll have two doors to access the gear. One door will be opaque and match the wall, and the other glass. I'll have all of the gear I need easy access to behind the glass door, and other cabinet will house the gear I shouldn't need to get to the front of except in rare circumstances. I'll still have full access to the rears of both cabinets from the bedroom.

The Tripp Lite 72" 20-amp 24-outlet power strip I bought for the closet will be mounted in between the two cabinets somehow.

My dad said he did hear back from the designer from the first contractor yesterday, so he'll be coming with his team on Tuesday to talk with us further. I guess I'll have to wake up early that day to provide my input. The sacrifices we make....

Hopefully he can get the proposed layout drawn up in a CAD program that I can then share with all of you. While the basic layout and general shape of everything will be the same as the pictures on the first page of the thread, there will have to be some fine-tuning to where all of the rooms intersect (bedroom, bathroom, HT/kitchen).

As far as sound isolation possibilities, has anyone used this stuff or something like it?: Acoustiblok. Yes, I'm still looking for ways to add at least some level of sound isolation without double-drywalling the ceiling. My dad is set on a suspended ceiling for ease of getting to all of the wiring. This is a major compromise to any sound isolation, but I need to figure something out to better separate the ground floor and basement living spaces.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to have the construction company we hire coordinate with a company that specializes in acoustics. Acoustic Sciences Corporation, which I think Chris first linked to here, is based in Eugene, OR, about 6 hours away. I'm not sure I'd find anyone closer who knows as much, but if they're simply selling their knowledge to our local contractor, then I suppose there's no real need to be any closer.

I'm thinking of perhaps this combo for the kitchen sink and faucet:

Kraus KPF-1602 Single Lever Pull Out Kitchen Faucet, Chrome

Kraus KHF200-36 36-Inch Farmhouse Apron Single Bowl 16 gauge Kitchen Sink, Stainless Steel

Or something along those lines. I just know how convenient it was to clean things in a commercial-grade sink with a commercial-grade sprayer. It would be better to see this stuff in person, of course. Maybe in Seattle when I visit my sister at the end of October.

That would work fine but I feel guilty for sending you down the 'proper rack' road. They are just way too expensive for home use unless you really want to go that way.

A good compromise might be to build a wooden rack sized to allow you to add the metal shelving. This way you gain the benefit of the mesh shelves for cooling and a lower pricetag. Power and additional fans (if required) can still be custom mounted whereever you need it.

After all, in your situation, this will be out of the way and unseen.

Yeah, but he still knows it's there.

While I think wood would work fine, I'm not the handiest person myself, and I think I'd prefer being able to just drop the rack cabinets in. While $400 is a chunk of change for each 42U unit, it would certainly save me some time and frustration trying to get something of my own to work.

I'm probably going to go with a wood frame, but with Raxxess rails screwed to it. You do have to be very accurate with your measurements. Rack equipment only has a few mm of slack with it's mounting holes.

Chris, make the top and bottom mounting holes on those strips elongated, then you,ll have the ability to slide them into perfect alignment, and lock them in place with the rest of the mounting holes.

After looking at the dimensions again for the StarTech 42U unit, I think I'll have to pass on it. It's deeper than I'd like, so I'm going to look at rigging up my own adjustable shelving. Not sure yet if I'll try to frame up something that will take rackmount shelves or not. I'll see what other vented shelving is out there, I suppose. My dad said we could build out the media closet so it sticks into the room a little and can accommodate the StarTech cabinet, but I think I'd like to keep it flush with the rest of the wall.

I still haven't heard back from the local theater on where I can pay for my theater seats and pick them up. I'll message him again at the end of the week if I don't hear anything.

I think the construction company and I may be able to talk my dad into carpeting the HT area instead of tiling it. It would be less work and cheaper, since there would have to be work done to make the floor perfectly level. Carpeting would also mean I wouldn't have to buy a nice area rug. I'd rather put money into sound isolation than floor tiles. Fingers crossed that he'll go for it.

Hmmm... now I'm thinking maybe these:

Middle Atlantic 5-43-26 Slim 5 Series Rack

Middle Atlantic SH-5A-26 Zero Space Shelf

Middle Atlantic UTR1 Half Rack Shelf

I've been shooting out some emails. I emailed Acoustic Sciences Corporation with some preliminary questions about what they might be able to achieve in my basement given some of the obstacles. He has a lot of questions for me, so he wants me to give him a call instead of trying to email back and forth for three weeks. Good idea. As soon as I can get my dad to be available at the same time, I'll call, as I'm sure many of the questions are ones my dad will have to answer.

I also emailed RealTraps to see what they might recommend for my room, either utilizing their ceiling tiles or not. I'm planning on a pair of their MegaTraps for the front corners of the room, at least, and perhaps a couple of MiniTraps for the walls at the reflection points. Of course, I might also just ask Acoustic Sciences Corporation to give a quote on improving the acoustics of the room in addition to their soundproofing expertise. I imagine it will be more than I want to spend, but it can't hurt to ask.

I'm sure I'll have to scale back some of my desires all around. I need more money.

I'm back to thinking I should just make my own shelving for my media closet. I think I'll end up happier that way, and if not, then I can always try again.

I'm thinking I'll use this insulation for the basement ceiling:

ULTRATOUCH™ DENIM INSULATION

Does anyone have any experience with it? It sounds like it's easy to work with, and it seems to have decent sound absorption.

Well, I did it. I ordered a VP180. I HAD to use the coupon code, right? Couldn't let it go to waste. Still wondering what to buy next for the basement, and still waiting to hear what contractor(s) we're going with.

Nicely done, CV. I suppose it was only a matter of time.

I'm (still) envious.

Congrats on the new speaker, CV!!

Thanks, Tom and Sean. Ian himself uses a single VP180 below the screen, so maybe I won't feel the need for another. But you know me.

Cool! Looking forward to the review!

If you REALLY want to show him, buy a jet.


And then park it in your HT room.

No Charles you must buy two VP180s so you can put one above your screen and let us know what sort of “wall of sound” it creates for movies so I’ll know if I should do the same.

Seriously your next step should be to take some pictures so we can visualize what you’re talking about.

I thought "wall of sound" was Catbrat's job.

Ha ha. Good call, Ken. Dean, what do you want pictures of?

In other news, I finally shipped my DSP to Axiom for the code update. Instead of trying to schedule a pickup and hoping I filled the international waybill out correctly, I decided to take it in to the local FedEx Office to be sure. I sent it 2-Day, but the girl at the counter confused me by saying it would go out Monday and be there on Friday if there weren't any customs delays. I didn't ask, but I assume they're tacking on extra days because of the hurricane? Their Service Alerts page says "FedEx is conducting normal operations," though, with no mention of Hurricane Sandy. I suppose I'm not in THAT much of a rush, but with Axiom splitting the shipping cost with me for 2-day service, I feel bad if they're not getting what they're paying for.

I sent my DSP box in on the 29th and they got it on the 31st. Axiom sent the unit back on the 2nd and its not suppose to get here until the 8th and I paid for two day shipping. Something is not right there either,but I will just be glad to get it back before next weekend.

Hopefully you don't have to wait too long CV.

That time frame is a bummer for sure, no matter how one does the math, it simply just doesn't add up. Some people would complain for a reduced fee, or perhaps a credit on the next time they would be using their services again. This may or may not fall on deaf ears, but might be something too consider though.

The good news is that the DSP did make it back to Axiom on Wednesday, so 2-Day shipping did work.

My VP180 should arrive on Tuesday. I adjusted the shelves on what I'm using as my entertainment stand to accommodate. I actually moved the players off that shelf and made it smaller to just fit the VP180. It'll be close, but I think it will fit fine. Still, I can't wait until I can move my system into the basement and have all of my gear in a closet. Then I'll have to work on a new stand for the VP180.

I did end up going with Middle Atlantic. I purchased from showmecables.com instead, though:

Slim 5 Series Equipment Rack Enclosure - 20 In. Depth - 37 RU

SH Series Zero Space Rackshelves - 20 IN Deep

I bought two of these Zero Space shelves for the 20" depth rack, though I'll probably get two more. I'm going to be buying one more of these Middle Atlantic Slim 5 racks, except at the 26" depth, which I'll also get two of the Zero Space shelves for. I'll buy sliding shelves for the printer and scanner, and after that, I think my gear will be sufficiently served by these Raxxess rack trays.

I was impressed with my first order from Show Me Cables. Most of the order took one business day to arrive, and the one straggler package arrived the following day.

Does anyone here have experience installing PC fans into media closets for air circulation? Not knowing much, I'm tempted to go with a couple of these kits:

Coolerguys Cabcool1203 Three 120mm Fan Cooling Kit w/thermal control for Cabinet or Home Theaters

The plan is to have them blowing into the rear of the closet on the bottom and out of the rear (cue Mark) on the top. Does this sound good? Does anyone have any brands they would recommend over Coolerguys?

I'll have new pics for this thread before too long. I'm afraid it's not going to be as pretty as I'd like, so I may need to get a hot woman in the pictures to distract you.

Unless you are restricted in size, why not go for quiet 140 or 150 mm fans

Only because I would need guidance on how to wire it all up and have it work properly, as opposed to getting one of the kits. That's why I'm here crying for help. Ha ha.

One of these would get you half way there in that the fans would simply plug in. You would need to wire a power supply to a moulex connector. You might even be able to find a properly wired power supply.

Thanks, Fred. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

Does that translate to thanks, but I still don't want to electrocute myself?

Here's the pinout.
It tells you that you need a 12 volt supply. I expect you would only need to worry about pin 1 & 2 since the sensing and control functions go between the controller and the fans. Aha! 12v power supply with 4 pin molex connector

Now all you need is a way to mount the fans. This is easier than I thought.

Here's how a guy on AVS mounted the fans. Post 69.

OK, project's done. I'll email you my bill.