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#22270 - 10/15/03 05:36 PM Digital video?
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
I'm not totally sure if I understand DVI...here's what I think it is.

Your DVD player would convert the digital data from the disc to 720p then it would send that digital signal to your digital tv. The signal would never undergo a digital to analog conversion. Where as most DVD players would need to take the digital data from the disc, convert it to analog, and send it via your component video cables to your TV. You know what...as I'm trying to explain how I understand it, I'm realizing I don't understand it. Anyone care to give me a bare bones "Digital Video for Dummies" explaination of 480p 480i 720p 1080i and 1080p? DVI vs Component?
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#22271 - 10/15/03 06:28 PM Re: Digital video?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Craig, you got it right regarding the DVI (DVI-D) versus Component connections. With the DVI-D connection, the video signal remains in the digital domain from start to finish, eliminating the possible degradation due to D/A and A/D conversions.

Regarding 480p, 480i, 720p, et al., the number designate the horizontal resolution or pixel counts. The "p" and "i" subscripts are for "progressive" and "interlaced," respectively. In the interlaced format, a half of the entire image content, consisting of odd-numbered horizontal scan lines only, is sent first, followed by another half of the image consisting of even-numbered scan lines sent 1/60 second later. These two image "fields" will make up one complete image "frame" every 1/30 second. In the progressive format, a complete image (frame) is simply sent every 1/30 second. The interlaced format is invented early in the history of TV broadcast, in order to prevent CRT screen flickers.

In this era of big-screen TVs, however, the problem of interlaced video format is the fact that the objects in the scene can move between the two consecutive fields (i.e., within 1/60 second), resulting in the nasty "combing" artifacts. This wasn't a big deal when the TV screen was small and the picture quality was compromised anyway by other factors such as the artifacts associated with the analog over-the-air broadcasting.

The "native" format of DVD media is 480i. When a 24-frame-per-second film material is converted onto DVD, they perform what's called 2:3 pulldown -- the first film frame is copied into three consecutive 60-fps interlaced DVD fields, the second film frame into two following DVD fields, the third film frame into the next three, etc... That way, two 24-fps film image frames are converted to five 60-fps interlaced DVD fields in order to preserve the final frame rate (you need a bit of math to understand this: 24/2 = 60/(2+3) ).

All fixed-pixel digital displays (plasmas, DLPs, LCDs...) are inherently progressive. In order to display the 480i DVD image on a big-screen TV with a good image quality, you need to "deinterlace" the 480i signal to the 480p, 720p, or 1080p progressive format. A good deinterlacer chip will automatically detect the 2:3 pulldown sequences of film-based materials, and reverse the pulldown process to generate the 480p video sequence in which the original film frames are perfectly restored. Deinterlacing the video-based materials is MUCH more complicated, because you have to intelligently interpolate between the consecutive 480i fields and compensate for the motion artifacts (combing). The Faroudja DCDi and other reputable deinterlacers are extremely good at doing these tricks, in addition to correctly detect the 2:3 pulldown sequences.

The most common HDTV format (either satellite, cable, or over-the-air) in the US is 1080i, followed by 720p as a distant second. SDTV broadcast is always 480i, same as DVD.


Edited by sushi (10/15/03 06:43 PM)

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#22272 - 10/15/03 06:42 PM Re: Digital video?
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Cool...I understood most of that before. I guess I'm not as dumb as I thought.

I guess my next question is what's compatible with what. If I get a DVD player, I'm going to want a DVI output for the best possible PQ, right? BUT, I'll also need a TV that has DVI inputs as well, no?

What about HD-DVD and 1080p? I know the new LCOS TV's are suppossedly able to handle 1080p.


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#22273 - 10/15/03 06:45 PM Re: Digital video?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
So 1080P would be the best you can get? (does anything do this?) Is there currently anything above 1080? I'm trying to keep up with all of this stuff so I have some idea of what I'm looking at as far as that part goes when it comes time to get a new TV....oooppps, sorry Sushi, I mean a FP (only if I ever decide to finish the basement)

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#22274 - 10/15/03 06:50 PM Re: Digital video?
Semi_On Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 737
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
In reply to:

I guess my next question is what's compatible with what. If I get a DVD player, I'm going to want a DVI output for the best possible PQ, right? BUT, I'll also need a TV that has DVI inputs as well, no?




In theory, yes.

In reply to:


What about HD-DVD and 1080p? I know the new LCOS TV's are suppossedly able to handle 1080p.




HD-DVD hasn't really been defined yet so there's nothing but speculation at this point.

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#22275 - 10/15/03 07:10 PM Re: Digital video?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Yes, Craig, for the best possible image quality, you want a DVD player and a display device both equipped with a DVI-D port. I believe that many latest big-screen TVs and plasmas, as well as most front projectors, are DVI-savvy. Same for the latest satellite/OTA HDTV tuners.

On the player side, however, only a few (including a Samsung unit and the Bravo D1, made by the obscure V, Inc.) are available at this time. One political/regulatory obstacle that's been hindering the production of DVI-savvy players is the sticky issue of digital copyrights.

In part for the same reasons, very few, if any, AV receivers are equipped with a DVI-video selector at this time. The new flagship ES receiver from Sony (costing ~$5K) is the ONLY one that I am aware is capable of DVI switching. The current state of the market really sucks in these regards...

The new LCoS TVs are by no means unique in the 1080p capability. Quite a few front projectors including my own, as well as some latest RPTVs and plasmas, are capable of handing the 1080i and 1080p signals (although there is no use, unless you set up an HTPC).

I am not very familiar with HD-DVD (yet), and wish somebody else to fill in here. But I believe that the proposed HD-DVD media format is capable of 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

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#22276 - 10/15/03 07:29 PM Re: Digital video?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Zarak, I don't think anybody is producing in 1080p. So the 720p and 1080i are the best you can get at this time. I believe that in order to do 1080p the existing infrastructure has to be updated with respect to bandwidth. So I don't think it's coming to town very soon (read, not for many years -- think about how long it's been taking for them to get to 1080i).

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#22277 - 10/15/03 07:35 PM Re: Digital video?
mhorgel Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Louisville, KY
What I don't get is why I can get 1080i and 720p via a component cable from my digital cable box, but I need a DVI to get the same resolution from a DVD. Are there going to be any DVD players that outbut 720p or 1080i via component cables? My TV doesn't have DVI connections.

Mark
_________________________
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff"

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#22278 - 10/15/03 07:48 PM Re: Digital video?
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
The new Denon DVD-5900 has DVI out.
_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#22279 - 10/15/03 07:50 PM Re: Digital video?
twopecker Offline
local

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 290
Loc: Nebraska
I was happy to see this thread here, I was about to start something very similar.

I am thinking of putting together an HTPC to mainly use as a dvd player. I have a Sanyo Z1 projetor, with a native resolution of 964x544. the Z1 does not have a DVI connector, just a vga.

Now I am an uber computer nerd, but havent played much in the HTPC arena, so have a few questions. Its my understanding that I can force my video card to output 964x544, to match the native resolution of my projector. Now will this look any better than say an average everyday progressive dvd player? I am using a pioneer non-progressive right now, and I can either replace this w/ a progressive unit, or go w/ an HTPC.

Any input on this would be appreciated....was it saturn who has one hooked up to his X1?

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