Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Blind Listening Tests

Sneak Peek into Axiom’s Current Research and Development

Axiom’s Newest Speaker: The In-Ceiling M3

Wall'O'Fame
Experimental Atmos
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
Who's Online
1 registered (fredk), 52 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13323 Members
11 Forums
22902 Topics
404779 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17783
pmbuko 16282
SirQuack 13337
CV 11212
MarkSJohnson 10911
Meanwhile On Facebook

Ian and Andrew join in the debate about whether or not people want uncompressed...

󾓶 The first review of the LFR880s is out! "If you are adding or upgrading stere...

So much going on in this month's newsletter - new product announcements, a new v...

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#223021 - 09/29/08 10:48 PM You pays yer money and you takes yer chance
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
"You pay your money and you take your chance
When you're dealing with love and romance"

Bruce Cockburn, Canadian singer/songwriter

And when you're dealing with audio and video too, I believe. Well I think what I've decided to do is do as others have done and start with the M80s, since after all they are the "stars of the show", and if I am happy with them in my setting as I expect I will go ahead and order the rest of the epic80/600 7.1 system. Do I wish I could afford a second sub now and go 7.2? Absolutely, but as for most others the funds just aren't there yet. I've noticed there are less expensive subs out there that are highly regarded, however, for the 5 minutes or so that I listened to the EP600 it seemed like it was worth the asking price. I'll probably place an order in the next day or so for the M80s, after my credit card clears, hopefully my Wamu credit card will still be operative given the financial meltdown.

I have a Rotel RA-840BX3 amp (yes it's been a while since I could afford to update my audio) that I can use to drive the M80s for a little while but I am thinking about purchasing an Emotiva UPA3 (followed later by an UPA5?) at the same time; with all the processors in development I am still on the fence regarding what receiver (972, 3900, 3809?) or pre/pro (997, new Emo?) I want. With even Alan Lofft recommending at least 250 watts per channel for perfectly clean sound in my size room, I doubt I will be unhappy with the decision to buy at least a separate amp to power the mains.

Yes, as you can tell, buyer's remorse is an issue; I have little doubt the M80s will be very satisfying, however, this process will also give me time to finalize details of the system and figure out how to put things together.

I would love to do the install myself in part due to cost but I'm not sure how hard it will be to run wires through walls. I have an unfinished attic above the living room so it might not be that hard.

Thanks to every one for advice and suggestions, this truly is a great forum.
SK
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223024 - 09/29/08 11:02 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7058
Loc: Canada
Hey, I saw that disk at the library today. Havn't listened to Bruce in a long time.

You will be quite happy with your choice. Now comes the wait, during which you will become a posting fiend so as not to drive everyone else in your life crazy.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#223028 - 09/29/08 11:23 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: fredk]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
So when you say wait, do they like build to order or something? I haven't perused that topic on the forums as I have others. I understand the shipping can be pretty quick. How long does it take for them to put product out for delivery?
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223029 - 09/29/08 11:25 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7406
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Usually pretty quick if you get a standard finish. Factory outlet and custom finishes take longer.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

Top
#223035 - 09/29/08 11:40 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: St_PatGuy]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Great, that's what I was hoping, the wife wants black to go with the electronics and the shelving, can't afford and probably don't need custom finish in black.

I was thinking against factory outlet because I would lose the flexibility of trade up, but I suppose that begs the question, what would there be to trade up to from the m80s, and what would be the need? You still get the 30 day in home trial with factory outlet, do you not?
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223038 - 09/29/08 11:42 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
30 day trial still applies and in-wall 80's might be the only trade up. Its just that a 10% savings from the FO is worth the wait, IMO
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

Top
#223129 - 09/30/08 07:23 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: jakewash]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

Top
#223160 - 09/30/08 10:44 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: doormat]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
I sure love my custom Ebony Pica finish, smooooooooooooooth as silk.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#223168 - 09/30/08 11:38 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SirQuack]
duckman Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 312
Loc: kansas
You may want to read A tale of 5 installs over at audioholics while you're waiting. (scroll down the page a ways)
_________________________
Just say No to HDMI

Top
#223230 - 10/01/08 01:11 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: doormat]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Interesting, the other day when I had the FO speakers in my shopping cart, there was a statement listed in red that I thought said, "This item cannot be used in trade up program," now the statement is gone, thanks for the clarification.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223241 - 10/01/08 01:53 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
So I pulled the trigger on the FO M80s and chose Bill Me Later, which may help keep cash available for all of the other costs when I buy/install the rest of the system. If I could afford everything I would order everything today but this will give me a month or two or three to pay for it all without having my credit cards maxed out, that's not a good thing.

I think I'm going to go with an Emo XPA-2 to start (I was going to go with the XPA-3 but they more or less talked me into the XPA-2 when I called, and I think they have a return policy too). The other option would be to start with the XPA-5, which supposedly is good except the electronic design and parts on the XPA-2 are superior.

I just have to find how long it will take for the Emo to ship because I may want to delay ordering it until the M80s are set to ship, or perhaps not, I could just demo the amp with current speakers and try not to blow them up.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223246 - 10/01/08 02:25 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
Hey SatKartr, post back here after you get your emo and axioms hooked up. I've been thinking about adding the xpa-5 although I use a Denon 3808 and everyone tells me that should be enough. I thought the xpa-2 and xpa-5 were built from the same materials so I guess I missed something if the xpa-2 is supposed to be superior. What is the diffence?
_________________________
"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

Top
#223250 - 10/01/08 02:58 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: edmondwolfman]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
The Emo rep stated that the XPA-5 and XPA-3 incorporate the same electronics but the XPA-2 is on a "whole other level", when I asked him to explain he stated that for one the transistors are higher speed/faster so presumably capable of greater detail (e.g., faster transients, audio info more accurately spaced in time and therefore more clear and less likely to be smeared, if I understand the concept). He was also talking about I believe a lot more transistors and overall higher build quality in terms of parts used; the website also discusses greater physical isolation and superior shielding to lower the noise floor. His advice to me was that if I could afford the XPA-2 I would find it to be more impressive in terms of performance over the XPA-3.

The question is when does all of this become overkill because the XPA-5 looks like a great amp, however, between the XPA-2 and XPA-3 the cost difference is not that great so I am of course leaning toward the XPA-2.

I'll let you know how the setup sounds, recognizing this is all so subjective, hence the title of this post.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223254 - 10/01/08 03:19 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
Sounds good. I've read reviews on the XPA-5 and they are very highly rated. I always wondered why a 5 channel didn't cost more than a 2 channel amp, all things considered. I am considering the xpa-5 because I like the idea of 200 w/per into 5 channels and I would need 2 or 3 xpa-2s to drive all channels and I just don't have room for more than a single unit. I've read where some ordered a 5 and a 2 to drive their 7 channel systems. This is a lot of fun isn't it if I had the room and didn't have to deal with the WAF (wife approval factor) I could let my imagination run wild
I've also been looking at the Marantz amp but they cost about 3 times as much and have only 140W per although it is an 8 channel amp. Wonder if a Marantz amp at $2400 and 140W into 8 channels sounds any better than the Emotivas at $800 and 200W into 5 channels As I mentioned, I use a Denon 3808 rated at 130W per but some say that a dedicated amp just sounds better than a receiver. I would use the pre outs on my Denon and still use the Denon for all the advanced signal processing.

After checking out the Emotiva site again I see they have the MPS-2 7 channel amp for $1699. That would probably be closer to the xpa-2 in quality. That would make sense to me, a well built multichannel should cost more than the equivalant 2 channel


Edited by edmondwolfman (10/01/08 03:30 PM)
_________________________
"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

Top
#223259 - 10/01/08 03:34 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: edmondwolfman]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Yes the only reason I am thinking about the XPA2 is to go with a 2 plus 5 setup, and another reason I am doing this in stages is a bit of misdirection/sleight of hand regarding the WAF, if I don't add everything all at once I am hoping to appear less insane, we'll see how it turns out, past experience suggests it may be a workable strategy, hence also only one sub in the first pass.

I would also love to hear your experiences if you go add an XPA5 to your setup with the Denon as pre/pro, that would be very interesting.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223262 - 10/01/08 04:00 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK

I work it like you do. I ordered my Axiom M60s and VP100 and then a couple of weeks later I ordered an HSU ULS-15 sub that I had my heart set on ($1300) and when it arrived I told my wife that it was part of the original speakers that I ordered but it had been on "back order" Worked so well that I'm thinking about getting the QS-8s soon under the same premise ;\)
_________________________
"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

Top
#223265 - 10/01/08 04:07 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: edmondwolfman]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
That's an interesting point, I asked the Emo rep about the MPS-2 for HT, but he did not recommend it, he thought an XPA5 and XPA2 combo would be best, for the very reason I suspected: more power is available as needed for the channels that need it with the XPA-5 but not the MPS-2, because the MPS-2 is the same as 7 monoblocks, so you have 7 separate power transformers that are not as big as the one in the XPA-5 for example. What happens is that if all of the channels are not being driven at the same time, which they are most often not in HT, even more power is available to the one or two that need it than would be available with the MPS-2, which caps out at 300 watts per channel into 4 ohms. By comparison you could have a maximum of 500 watts into 4 ohms (1 channel driven) with the XPA-5 or 700 watts into 4 ohms with the Axiom 1400 amp.

I believe that's one of the reasons (other than the fabulous design) that everyone loves the Axiom 1400 amp, it has a huge power transformer and makes a lot of power available when needed to the channels that need it, not so you blow your ears out, but so the clarity/purity of sound can never be touched by even a hint of distortion.

The rep stated that although with the MPS-2 the channels are isolated better which is the advantage of a Class H design, there is minimal crosstalk given the design of the XPA-5, so it's almost a nonissue.

Kind of makes you wonder what application the MPS-2 would excel at.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223266 - 10/01/08 04:13 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: edmondwolfman]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
That sounds exactly like something I would do/say, that strategy works, I hate to confess, but a man has to find some way to build his empire, otherwise we'd all be listening to home theater in a box!

BTW, how do you like the HSU 15? Is it as great as they say? Were you able to audition it first? Why that over the EP500 since they are roughly the same price?
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

Top
#223275 - 10/01/08 04:52 PM Re: You pays yer money and you takes yer chance [Re: SatKartr]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: SatKartr
That sounds exactly like something I would do/say, that strategy works, I hate to confess, but a man has to find some way to build his empire, otherwise we'd all be listening to home theater in a box!

BTW, how do you like the HSU 15? Is it as great as they say? Were you able to audition it first? Why that over the EP500 since they are roughly the same price?


I am very limited on space where the sub could sit. If I had the room I would probably have gone for a couple of the HSU VTF-3 MK3s for around the same price.

I needed a sub to be a forward fire, it couldn't be too tall, wide or deep. I would rather have spent less because I know that many subs for less than $1000 sound really good but all the ones I looked at were too large for my "spot". The ULS-15 fit perfectly, was a forward fire and with the 15" and 1000W I thought it might be a sub I wouldn't have to upgrade and would deliver all the bass I need. It is indeed a great sub. It goes really low and is clean and tight. I don't regret getting the ULS-15 at all and in fact I love it I was having some problems getting my Axiom M60s and VP100 to sound the way I wanted them to at first. Some music sounded good but most of my music was what I would call harsh sounding, just too shrill through the treble range. I thought I had made a mistake purchasing them and I posted so in one of these forums. I also posted a screen shot of the equalizer graph for my FL and several people stated that they though that Audyssey had not calibrated correctly. Others suggested playing with the settings manually, dropping the high freq levels to 0 or below and adjusting others up to 0 as well as playing with the center width, depth, panaroma and tone controls. I've been tweaking on those for a couple of weeks now and the sound difference is like night and day. I am now satisfied that I made the right decision as my audio now sounds excellent

Oh yeah, another reason I went with the ULS-15 is that it comes with wireless. If it wouldn't have sounded great in the "spot" I had for it I could have place it in the back of the room or on a side wall and wouldn't have had to run cable. I have hard wood floors so the cable would have been very noticable and I know you understand the WAF from one of your previous posts

I also posted the question about the Marantz MM8003 vs. Emotiva XPA-5 over at the avsforum. I haven't had my ass chewed out in a couple of days so I gave it a shot. I'll probably be back in a few minutes completely chastised


Edited by edmondwolfman (10/01/08 04:58 PM)
_________________________
"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.