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#223576 - 10/03/08 09:52 AM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: Hutzal]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: Hutzal

Well I went with a used LPA-1 since one of the peters on this board has M80s and an LPA-1 and he said he has not had any issues even when driving them extremely loud.

Hey, that's me! \:\)

Yes, I have an LPA-1. I love it. I've had it for almost 2 years now powering my whole Axiom system. Bi-amped M80's (shush, it's the way I like it), VP150, and QS8's. I've not had any heat or shutdown problems. Whether 2 channel stereo or 5.1 movies. I crank it up and it's just loud and clear. It'll play far louder than is comfortable for my ears, so I'm perfectly content with it.

On the other hand, I also owned an LMC-1 for about 3 weeks. It was the buggiest piece of consumer electronics I've ever owned. Felt like an Alpha version. Constant problems of weird sound modes, forgotten settings, useless sound level checks, and occasional hissing or other weird background noises. I exchanged a dozen emails with Lonnie @ Emotiva at the time, and I have nothing but praise for him. He was very helpful. But in the end the 'frustration factor' was just too high for me and I returned it. I had a refund check from Emotiva in about 3 days. They actually issued the refund check within about 2 hours of the LMC being delivered to them, according to UPS tracking numbers. Now to be fair, the time period I owned the LMC was prior to the final firmware that was released. I have read that the LMC is much better on the final firmware. But I don't know from personal experience so I can't say.

But back to the first hand, I am on the preorder list for the UMC. I'm very eager to replace my ancient c2002 AVR with something that was made in an era of HDMI & HD. And the UMC's features and price fit my criteria well. Outlaw's 997 also looks like an wicked prepro too, but it's at a higher cost that's a bit out of my budget.

I expect that Emotiva has learned from their mistakes on the LMC and will do a better job on the UMC. They've certainly had enough time to work on it. And if they don't get it right, I have 100% confidence in their return policy.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#223577 - 10/03/08 10:27 AM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: Hutzal]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
The problems that Emotiva has had have been with the LMC-1 and some of the XPA-2 & 5 amps mainly. I had to send my LPA-1 in for work but it was fixed promptly. I have now sold it and own the XPA-5. No problems so far with it so far although some people have had blinking lights and bad channels. Don't know if that is a small percentage or more systematic.

I just sent my LMC-1 in for repairs after owning it a year. Funny thing is that I've read about 5 or more people whose LMCs have recently just done the same thing as mine. Coincidental? or is there a problem with some component that lasts a year and faults. Don't know.

As I said before, I really like their products and you can't beat their prices, service and warranty. I believe they have great owners and staff, have great products, R&D and engineering. I also believe that being on their forums allows you to see more of the complaints, issues and returns. People discuss them and you see them. Do they have more complaints & problems than other companies? Don't know, but I know I get concerned when I read about consistent problems. You don't see that here. How many times do we see a problem with an Axiom speaker? Occassionally but not very often. And the percentage for Emotiva is still very low too.

I'm on the preorder list for the UMC-1 and I'm very excited about it. My confidence level is still high but as I've said, I have had problems with 2 of the 3 pieces that I have owned. Both have been fixed quickly but I still had to send them in and do without for awhile.

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#223585 - 10/03/08 11:34 AM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: cgolf]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 761
Loc: Toronto
Emotiva has been going through some growing pains and they are adding to their product line quite quickly. I do, however, see that they have some pretty good people running the operation and I am sure they will be successful. It would seem in recent times that as the equipment gets more sophisticated along with the chips required to do the processing, problems can arise from time to time. Companies, like Emotiva and Outlaw have chosen to concentrate on separates as opposed to AVR's and as a result, pre-pros usually are more software based thus resulting in them potentially being a little more sensitive. They do, however, have the advantage, generally speaking, of being able to accept more downloads to correct any problems and/or add features. This is what impresses me about Oppo and their DVD players. I, myself, is going the separates route and I plan to buy either the forthcoming Outlaw 997 OR Emotiva XMC-1. Their feature/value set just can't be beat.

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#223844 - 10/04/08 03:54 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: SatKartr]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11145
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: SatKartr
Absence of proof of difference is not the same as proof of no difference. Even the surgeon general was 10 years shy of scientific proof that smoking was harmful or that a low fat diet was likely beneficial when he recommended against smoking and high fat diets.


For the sake of argument, can I suggest that those are a little more complex and harder to study? By all means, let's do more controlled listening tests, but how many do we need before we're satisfied with the results? It doesn't seem like it should take nearly as much research to decide what sounds good as opposed to how certain substances and diets affect our long-term health.
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#223852 - 10/04/08 04:17 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: SatKartr]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
It often takes millions of dollars if not decades to prove a particular point of scientific evidence


This is sort of like saying that because an 8 year old can't do statistics they also can't add 2+2.

Your example is based on complexity. For instance, if you listen to any nutritional scientist, they will tell you that nutrition is a vastly complex subject/issue, and that we have barely scratched the surface on the mechanics of indivitual nututrients let alone chemical/nutritional interactions between individual components.

Can you hear a difference is a 2+2 kind of problem. It dosn't take millions of dollars and years of effort to tease the answer out of complex data or interactions. All you need to do is switch between two components without the listener knowing which is which and ask, "Did you hear a difference?" This is a question that can be asked a number of different ways to guard against biased language.

On the other hand, if you believe whatever component makes the difference, spend your money and be happy. \:\)
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#223859 - 10/04/08 04:48 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: fredk]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
Don't ya just love it. What sounds better? What causes the sound to be different? Is it price, brand, separates, source, amp, processor,????? Is Blue Bell ice cream better than say Ben & Jerrys or Marble Slab? I think so but the next person doesn't. There are some "things" that do make equipment sound better (natural) but I don't have the answers. I know what sounds best to me based on what I've owned and heard. So far it's Emotiva but that could change tomorrow if I hear something else that sounds "better" to me. It's of course not as clear a choice as who you're going to vote for for president....... Or maybe that isn't clear yet either!!!

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#223865 - 10/04/08 05:11 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: SatKartr]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
Guess I'm just too simple minded. I have a very very basic understanding of how sound is reproduced, etc. but the truth is, I'm not that interested in learning more about that topic unless it helps me to make better choices on purchasing equipment, location of equipment, calibration, etc. I want the best sound I can get from the equipment that I have so knowledge that helps me there is important. I think it's like most every topic out there, we can discuss, argue, agree, etc. forever and there will still be multiple opinions.

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#223866 - 10/04/08 05:18 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: cgolf]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
But thats just the point. The experiment took believers from two different camps and did blind testing. Neither was able to distinguish differences reliably.

Now, if both groups reliably identified one component over the other (after applying statistical analysis), you have a quantifiable difference.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#223867 - 10/04/08 05:19 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: cgolf]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Indeed, there will always be multiple opinions.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#223873 - 10/04/08 05:43 PM Re: Emotiva's New Pre/Pro [Re: SatKartr]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
But it's also currently a better hypothesis (read: properly tested) than the hypothesis that that hypothesis is incorrect. I also suspect that this is not the only such comparison out there.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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