Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater My Own Thread to Say I Joined the Family

I just placed an order for my first Axiom product. I'm starting simple, with a pair of QS8s. I had recently upgraded my receiver to a 7.1 model and couldn't stand having those two speaker jacks with nothing attached.

I do plan to eventually have a full compliment of Axiom products. Another pair of QS8s, and a VP150. I'm still not sure which mains, but am leaning toward the M60s, and am really up in the air over the sub.

But lets just see how the QS8s do to start. (I'm sure they'll be better than my 15 year old, two-way, monopole, Sony, surround speakers, which will be relocated to the rear for now.)

Congratulations on your first Axiom purchase, and welcome. I'm sure the QS8s will work well for you. What finish did you get, and are you going to post pictures when you get them hooked up?

I just got two more QS8s to round out my system, and I just mounted them today. I haven't had any real time to play with them, but yeah, I know what you mean about wanting to use all of your outputs.

Thanks.

I got them in Black Oak. While I love anything with a piano black finish, I just couldn't justify the extra expense.

Sure, I'll post pics. Photography is another hobby which takes a large chunk of my income.

Chris, welcome. Yes, the QS8s are outstanding performers as surrounds. Since you'll be using the Sonys as back surrounds, the QS8 side surrounds should be mounted directly to the side of the listening position if possible, and about 3' above ear level. The back surrounds should be separated by about as far as the distance that they're behind the listening position, assuming that's enough to put them outside the listening position both on the left and right.

Welcome to the family Chris! See if you can audition the mains prior to buying if possible. I am sure that you will love what the QS8s do for you.

They'll have you with M80's and a pair of EP-800's in no time.

Welcome!

Welcome Chris!

Welcome, congrats on your purchase of QS8s.

Welcome Chris!

Be sure to let us know what you think of them once all is up and running.

Geez, Bob, can you do anything else besides your broken record player impression?

Did you say impressions? anyone heard this impression before...

clip....clop....clip....clop....BANG!!

That's the sound of an Amish drive-by shooting.
(had to share it)

I can't get a break, can I?

Depends where you want it.

Getting off topic I'd like to also welcome Chris to the forum. I'm very sure you are going to love the QS8s.

Welcome to the Axiom Family. I have a question as to how much room you have from the rear channels to the listening area? If there is little to no room then you may very well find another set of QS8s to work very nicely, if there is some breathing room for them, then your current direct radiators or a set of M2s might work better. Just something to think about, everyone has a different idea as to which they prefer for rear channel speakers. You may need to play around with the QS8s as rear channels just to see which you prefer.

You can do the piano black finish on your own. With a back base, you just need to get it flat and then spary lacqure and sand until you are happy. The hard part with QS8s is the number of complex surfaces and driver locations. I did my towers and center, but have stayed away from the QS8s for that reason.

Welcome Chris!

Whoa whoa, have you posted pics of the final product? I would love to see this.

Getting there. The piano black part is mostly done, but I'm adding a Ribbon Stripe Mahogany veneer to the lower 2/3 which is not finished. Hoping to have one complete this week, but finish work is slow as you have to let it dry before you move to the next step so, no promises. So far so good. The piano black came out near what I hoped for. I could have done two or three more layers to get a bit deeper mirror finish, but the improvement over the black ash vinyl is pretty much as hoped for. Perhaps I'll put up some in progress pictures.

Pics of the process would be cool and your description of the final product sounds wicked. You wouldn't be trying to get a job at Axiom would you?

Those positions were pretty much what I had in mind. The Sonys will be about 7.5' behind me and about 6.5' apart. My room is shaped kind of strange. It is 15x20, but the corners are cut off to make it an elongated, slightly widened octagon. So I didn't want to get the rears too close to the angled corners. 6.5' still puts the rears slightly beyond the listening area, and about a half-foot inside with width of the fronts.

I had seen a few other posts day the surround should go 3' above ear level, but I didn't really think about it until now. When I'm seated my ear level is about 3' from the floor, so that means the speakers should be mounted 6' up the wall. That's higher than I have my current speakers, but I guess you know best. I have 9-foot ceilings, by the way.

Welcome, Chris!

I put my QS8's about 6'6" off the floor so that all but my tallest friends are in no danger. I'm very happy with that solution.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have 7.5 feet behind the listening area to the rear wall. The room is also 15 feet wide, so when in the "sweet spot", it is 7.5 feet to the left and righ walls. Additionally the room is a total of 20 feet long, so I've placed the left, center, and right in an arc which is 7.5 feet from the center of the listening area which leaves about 5 feet behind them.

The height up walls and the spread of the rear channels adds a few more inches to the actual distance, but my receiver's auto setup can set the delay computation to the inch (and seems to do so very accurately).

Thanks for the tip. I will try swapping the directs with the QS8s to see how they sound behind me before I buy my next pair. I don't plan to keep the Sonys; they've served their time.

Oh, that's something else I wanted to ask. The little spacers which are used when using the T mount... How much space do they create? Right now I have 12 gauge wire to my surrounds, but since I was going to have to buy more I was going to pick up some 10. Then I thought that it may not fit into the gap, and the speaker would be sitting on the wire instead of the spacers.

I know 10 is overkill, but you can never have too much overkill.

10 is way, way, overkill. I wouldn't bother.

OK. I was thinking the price difference is less than 30 cents a foot, but put another way, that's almost a 50% increase in price.

A job with Axiom, no...these are PSB speakers. Sorry. But the process will work on any speaker. I just got tired of the black boxes after about 10 years and decided to improve the cabinets. The sound is fine. Then again, I am surprised companies like Axiom and PSB don't offer cabinet upgrades like I made. I think there are many out there happy with the sound, but would like to improve the cabinet, or just get a change in scenery. I guess I have to post picks now as my comments make little sense without a pic.

How do I add a pic?

I guess wire is about the only place overkill is just that, overkill, as you can't play any louder or deeper or higher with a thicker cable over the appropiate length, so in this instance overkill has absolutely no benefit/advantage.

...unless you have levitating wires hand forged by a deaf monk at the bottom of a semi-active volcano. But you don't have those, do you?

10 awg bare wire is possible to fit inside the binding posts but you have to be very careful not to strip off to much because of how thick the wire is and the possiblity of stray whiskers is greater because it is a tight fit in the binding post. Since you are using the t-bracket I suggest using 12 or 14 gauge wire. It will make your life much easier for the install and you will not be compromising any sound quality in the process.

Cheers!

Getting the QS8's to lay flat on top of even 12g wire is an exercise. Seriously, 10 will just make your journey more difficult with no discernible payoff.

And here I thought 12g wire was difficult to manhandle.

Whoa.

Axiom's 12g wire is not hard to handle at all, it is the best wire I have found. Monoprices 12g, is a little tough to work with, especially after being spoiled by my experience with Axiom's wire.

I second that. The Axiom wire is the best (in terms of utility) I have ever used. And I have used a ton of wire setting up cars and HT's over the years. Even a wire or two I may be mocked for now...[runs away crying]

I use Blue Jeans wire/cables pretty much exclusively--that's what I've ordered again. Each strand in the wire is pretty thick so it doesn't handle as easy as other wires I've used (there was some stuff at Radioshack 20 years ago that felt like butter), but it isn't horrible and is vary affordable. I just work to straighten the runs up the wall, and affix it to the baseboard with a piece of white gaffer tape (not duct tape).

A pair of QS8's are exactly how I became a member of the family. I live in Northern Va, so if you want to audition M80's and a VP150, just let me know. I don't have an Axiom Sub yet, so I can't help you there.

I ran monoprice 12g wire behind my crown moulding to my surrounds, you can get an idea (kinda) in my pics here:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=241262

OK, it's been four weeks since I placed the order for my QS8s (which arrived only two days later). I've been active on the forum since then (to the tune of 99 posts), and have made comments about my experience here and there, but haven't really collected everything in one place. I figured, this being my 100th post, I'd resurrect this thread with my thoughts up to this point.

As I believe I said else where in this same thread; I'm upgrading a set of Sony speakers which are over 15 years old. They were comprised of the most expensive floor-standers at my local Sears, and again the biggest ticket center plus two surrounds offered there, and finished off with a 12" sub of the same quality (i.e. sufficient, but not great). That was all powered by a Sony 5.1 receiver purchased at the same time.

My gear includes a 60GB PS3 mostly for Blu-ray, SACD, and media files, but some gaming. There's also an middle-aged Pioneer DV-79AVi which I use for DVD-Audio and CD playback (which for some reason I prefer to the PS3). Just before Christmas I bought myself a new Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K receiver to make better use of the HD audio on Blu-ray discs. I was also backed into a corner and forced to buy a Pioneer PDP-5020FD display. Being that the new receiver has 7.1 outputs I figured I should fill those holes, and planned on upgrading the rest of my aged speakers to match. Everything is connected together with cables exclusively from Blue Jeans, 12-White for the center and surrounds, Star Quad for the mains, Series-1 HDMI from the DVD and PS3 to the receiver and the same up to the TV; the TV has an optical back down the the receiver. I also had some rudimentary treatments on the walls, but have taken them down as I was moving my speaker around.

I spent time reading so many speaker reviews, dreaming what each would be like (I'm in a small town which has a no local A/V dealers at which to listen). My plan was to try to afford even the lowest end of Revel's line, but even that it was seeming an impossible task. I knew they were related to JBL so I started looking there too and found something I thought I might like. I was almost ready to buy into JBL's Studio L series, when I found a mention of Axiom on Audioholics. The review piqued my interest and I started to read more. Just 5 days after reading that first review I placed my order. The 30 day in-home audition was a big factor; no matter what I bought I was going to be doing so based on what other people had written, being able to return them if I didn't agree was a plus.

My QS8s arrived on a Friday. I had also ordered 100' more of the 12 gauge white from Blue Jeans, but it show up until the following Monday. So I just disconnected my old surrounds which were located about 45 degrees behind me and mounted the QS8s directly to the left and right of my couch about 6' from the floor which put them 3' above my seated ears, and 3' from the ceiling. Leaving my old speakers which would become surround-backs unconnected for the weekend.

As my old setup had the surrounds slightly behind me, I was used to that positioning of the sound. But the QS8s located directly on both sides definitely presented a more "surrounding" sound field. They are virtually impossible to locate and when playing a reverb or echo of something coming from the mains sound so incredibly natural, like they are just an extension of those front speakers. The biggest dislike I initially had was with some surround music, especially Bjork's DVD-A of Vespertine. There's a lot of content on that disc which is mixed equally into the left and right surrounds. Before those sounds would appear to be coming from behind me, but now were floating over-head. Had I never heard the album on my previous setup I might have accepted this. But there's also some of the same sounds which are mixed on the right front and surround, these still crawled along the right side of my room; so the over-head seemed misplaced.

Monday, I got enough cable to re-add my old surrounds, and placed them in the rear wall this time closer together than they were before. After re-running the auto-calibration of my receiver, and forcing it to always have the surround backs enabled (this uses some steering logic to create 7.1 channels from 5.1 content); I gave Vespertine another listen. This time I was satisfied the over-head imaging had gone and the sounds had moved to be originating from behind me again. Even better than I had ever heard from my old 5.1 speakers, was the wrap-around effect, now I felt totally enveloped in the music, it wasn't just coming from the speakers it was all around me.

I experienced the same thing, continually, with every disc I played, be it surround music or a film. It's hard to explain just how completely seamlessly the surround blends with the front now. It seems like the front speakers have been upgraded, but when I listen to pure stereo content I know that they've not (and things are a little worse without the absorption at the first reflection point--which I'll be fixing soon). I've taken to playing CDs with ProLogic IIx Music enabled to try to return to that lushness.

What's next? Ever since I started listening to surround music, which almost always mixes the vocals hard into the center channel, I've grown to hate that speaker. Normal spoke dialog seems OK, but singing, especially in the higher octaves sound so boxy. So a VP150 is next on my list. The 5% discount for ordering 5 pieces at once would be nice, but paying cash and avoiding interest on a credit card will save me more than that anyway. So a speaker or two every 6 to 8 weeks will suit me well.

I promise some pictures soon; not that there's much to see, so far.

P.S. I got a new sig too.

Nice review. The QS8 is the first surround I have owned, so I have nothing to compare to. I guess I am spoiled.

Have you considered the layaway? You could pay cash, save that extra 5% from the multiple speaker discount, and as special bonus, you would get to torture yourself with an extra long wait for your speakers.

Chris, it seems like you've made some good choices all-around. It's nice to hear how it's all evolving.

These are actually the 3rd set of surround speakers I've owned. The first were a pair of Pioneer "full-range" (i.e. 1-way) designed for the bandwidth limited ProLogic processing. I have to say I thought going from ProLogic to Dolby Digital was a big change, while the move to TrueHD/DTS-HD MA was comparatively small, but the QS8s have breathed new life into the surround channel.

Not sure if I could do the extra long wait. Besides, getting a speaker at a time will allow me to evaluate the changes each make to my system.

Cris,
Thanks for the review on your QS8 experience.
"First, she must like my HT." Funny, my experience in dating, years ago, was when I would mention a nice sound system, she'd say: "That's nice" politely, not having the least interest. It may be akin to women dressing for other women. Not that we would (admit ;o) have a nice stereo (these days HT) for other guys, but it seems they appreciate a good set up.

So a wife 'liking' your HT may turn into a wife having no problem with your HT being a pretty good find.
I got very lucky in the wife OK with HT department. I never knew until I got bitten by the bug here and over at AVS. Dollars have been marching out of the house. She says, well I'm glad you don't spend ton's on other things, etc. I love this woman.

Chris, while you may not find an audiophile, you will attract a wonderful lady.

Cheers

A couple comments on this off-topic...

The guys at work when they see my various packages arriving (car parts, camera equipment, computer components, and A/V gear, not to mention all the books and various formats of shiny discs), say "my wife would kill me," to which I reply, "you did it backward you buy the toys first, and then you get the wife."

I would rather find a cinephile than an audiophile. While I love listening to music, and am weary of anyone who says they don't like it, it's almost more of a personal thing. But video entertainment, like movies and television, is something which I prefer to share.

I took a girl to see Watchmen with me last Friday. She actually had read the comic, and was impressed that I owned the "Absolute" edition. In the prison scene a person is thrown over a railing, I immediately said, "that's that scream", mind rolling back to try to think of how to start to explain what I meant, but she interjects, "the Wilhelm." My heart skipped a beat. (Though for other reasons, I don't think she'll be anything more than a friend, but she's coming over in two weeks to watch the Black Freighter on Blu-ray--we'll see how impressed she is.)

Once she goes Freighter, she'll stick around 'til much later.

Chris,
Very good point. I had not thought of that aspect. My wife and I both really love watching movies. She just does not get why all the hoppla and upgrade-itis over hardware. :o)

Could you expand on this? I've been looking to upgrade my Denon 3300 only to get HDMI switching and the TrueHD, et al, formats as I move towards the 1080p projector. (Otherwise the Denon has been the best purchase I have made in audio.) I'm running a 5.1 setup, with no plans for 7.1, and I don't need up-scaling as the primary critical viewing is via PS3 1080p Blu-Ray, and the upscaler on the projectors will do fine for HD cable.

If you (and others) are not noticing a big improvement in the TrueHD area, I may be able to quell that voice in head yelling "pull the kids out of private school and experience the full power of this fully operational Dolby True HD HT [in the voice of the Emperor]".
My A/B comparison of the Dave Mathews on BR to CD was my first clue that the improvement might not be all I was hoping.

I guess there's some improvement, but having experienced the transition from mono VHS into a RCA splitter, to HiFi VHS into a ProLogic decoder, to Dolby Digital/DTS on DVD into a 5.1 receiver. Those were all huge improvements over the previous generation, there'd be no mistaking one for another. But this lossless audio on Blu-ray into a 7.1 receiver, is only incremental.

I've not done any A/B comparisons between DVD and Blu-ray releases, but I didn't do that either with the previous iterations; it just wasn't needed, the change was so obvious.

Of course I've yet to upgrade the rest of my speakers from the DD/DTS days, and haven't upgraded my ears either. So I may be at the limit of what I can resolve, but I don't think so.

(On the other hand people who say they can't tell the difference between an upscaled DVD and a Blu-ray disc in terms of picture quality have to be blind, or watching a 20" television.)

Good, you passed the first test. Now and I can re-read your post with trust!

I think what I meant by not being at the limits of what I can resolve is more like Dolby's and DTS's lossy codecs were actually quite good, and there was little to more to gain going to the lossless format. It's going to take something quite special to get to the next big leap.

I like the idea of a height channel in the ProLogic IIz.

I think the big improvement is coming in the form of time correction and phase adjustment etc, to let people maximize the existing standards. DD is not the weak link in the signal chain at this point.

Well put.

My first Axiom order consisted of speaker wire and a full metal ceiling bracket. I need to have on in hand to see how it would work for my surrounds. I spent 2 hours in my attic yesterday pulling speaker wire to the surround locations and installing supports. So now I have the infastructure in place but nothing to hook up, yet. OK thats coming but I needed to get this done first. I can't place my order for the Factory Oulet Epic Grand Master-500 until about mid June (why wasn't I born wealthy?). But crawling around in the attic in June in the desert southwest is not recommended. When its 110 outside its closer to 130 in that attic. Until then I have to wait patiently.

OBW,
Mr. Kenobee ;o)
I had conveniently forgotten of the upcoming belly ceiling crawl task. I wish I could do it ahead of time, but I want to try different locations for my back (7.1) ceiling mount QS8s. I got Noreen's we shipped email early this am. Woo hoo! Good thinking to get that task done in cooler temps. We get 130º attics here too. It is a good way to loose a lot of water fast and clean the pores out. Been there. ;o)

LOL you taking the day off when they get there?. Hey please let me know how long it takes for your order to arrive. At least I will know what to expect for a west coast delivery time.

And of course remember more photos!

OBW, I work from home, so I'll be here when they arrive. I'll definitely report the transit time. I can't wait until Thursday, when there should be tracking info available by then. I was told by phone Monday morning (PT) "they are scheduled to ship today." Noreen's email arrived this morning at 5:45 am (PT). So I assume they physically left Axiom on Monday. It is probably way too much to hope that they arrive on Friday. That would be a wonderful surprise.

I need to figure out how to work from home, instead of big corporate America.

Thanks Dave. Yeah getting them Friday would make for a great weekend.

Time to resurrect my thread.

Growing increasingly annoyed with the quality of the sound coming from my Sony center channel, along with dry, itchy feeling of upgraditis which winter brings. I'm going to order a VP150 on Wednesday. I'll be calling this order in, just to make sure I get the right Black Oak to match my SQ8s. No FO for me, I can't stand to wait, so I may have it by this Friday.

Going to re-read Pioneer's manual for the MCACC. I believe there's an advanced mode where I can configure only one speaker, along with adjusting some of the finer details of the tests (like sample time for reverb).

Didja try some ointment on that first?

I'm afraid there is only one treatment, and it's not covered by any insurance plan.

Ah, but you're mistaken. There is one insurance plan that covers a surprising amount of treatments -- practically all of them. It's really hard to get in, but you are automatically enrolled in it once you've made a billion dollars.

You know, one would think that once you're a billionaire you'd have all of the money you could ever need. But the fact is the more money you have, the more money you spend. It's surprising how easily you can spend a billion dollars. Billionairs are often on the market for buying companies and corporations, which cost... billions of dollars!

Sure they live much better than we, but it's not as if a billionaire has a billion dollars to spend on whatever he fancies. Most of their money is tied up in whatever company they own, the sports franchise they have as a hobby, or the stocks and bonds that made them billionairs in the first place. Which is something I've never understood, these guys who play the stock market until they become billionairs... why do they leave that money in the stock market? Why WOULDN'T you bank it and just live the rest of your life worry free??? Stock markets crash way too often to leave something like a billion dollars lying around in it.

Then again, maybe it's this sort of thinking that'll keep me from ever becoming a billionaire!

Reminds me of the old joke...

Q. How do you become a millionaire?

A. You start with a billion dollars and buy an F1 racing team.

Or, in the case of Ross Brawn, you buy an F1 team, then you sell it.

Ha ha! The VP150 just shipped!

I know you are going to love the VP150 when you get it...and you will love it even more when you get sonically matching Axiom speakers for your mains!

I was reading your earlier post about using ProLogic II for music and how your old center channel not seeming to "fit" since it carries most of the vocals. I'm using ProLogic II for all of my music listening and I'm very impressed by some recordings. On certain songs, the vocals will start in the center, widen to the mains, and finally spread to the surrounds...it is a beautiful thing to experience!

By the way, I don't know if it is specific to my receiver (Denon 1910) or a general ProLogic II setting, but I am able to virtually "widen" the center channel so the sound stage is more enveloping. There is another setting called "Panorama" that really shows off the power of the surrounds.

Yeah, the Prologic II Music mode has Width and Panorama settings. The Width picks how much of the mono content is mixed into the left and right channels vs. removed and mixed into the center. The Panorama does the same for the out-of-phase information, it removes more of it from the left and right and moves it to the surrounds.

I prefer the default for the Panorama. I'll try adjusting the Width to mix more into the center once I get my Axiom speaker. I get very good imaging from my left and right as it is right now, with a perfect phantom center when in stereo mode, so the Width setting one way or the other doesn't make much different. Although it will allow me to make more use of the VP150 instead of my mains.

Brandon, although Dolby doesn't make it mandatory, most(all?)receivers that have DPLII include the three adjustment parameters: Center Width, Panorama and Dimension. The width adjustment varies the way material which is about equal in strength in the two front channels is distributed; either keeping it all in the front speakers(i.e., a "phantom center" effect), sending it all to the center speaker, or a mixture of the two. Panorama(which I don't use)actually just sends some of the in-phase sound from the front channels to the surrounds, creating an effect part way toward all-channel stereo. It's the Dimension control which varies the amount of out-of-phase material present in the front channels which is extracted and sent to the surrounds; to a limited extent this can increase the surround effect with material which has a relatively small amount of surround ambience mixed into the front channels.

My receiver doesn't have that. Perhaps all IIx receivers do.

Naw, Ken; I didn't bother to mention it, but the older HK receivers didn't include the DPLII adjustment parameters, which puzzled some reviewers and led to some speculation that the reason was to handicap it in comparison with the Harman proprietary Logic 7.

I bow to your terrifying memory.

Well my speakers are in the FedEd depot the next county over. That gives them enough time to get them back on a truck, and have them at my local depot to be out for delivery tomorrow morning.

Please, please, please, be on the truck for delivery tomorrow morning.

I always have my stuff shipped to work because that's where I am during delivery hours. Except tomorrow is my last day there for nearly a week, along with the business being closed for four days in a row.

Now the wait begins ClubNeon! Hey, by the way, I finally got around to installing the lights from the link you posted a while back. I will say it's easier on the eyes. I don't think it's a product that makes you think "WOW!!" However, I do think it's like an expensive RF/URC remote. You don't really appreciate until you use it for a bit. I already prefer it with the backlight than overhead flood lights. Thanks for the tip.

Actually, the wait is almost over. I placed my order last Wednesday. Just hoping that FedEx doesn't slip up now. It's still looking good.

Glad you're liking the bias light. My usual viewing companion sometimes draws while we watch TV/films (she's a very talented artist). In those cases I'll be nice and leave the overhead light on. She's not all that impressed with my HT, but admits it's better than her DVD player on a 4:3 tube TV with inbuilt speakers. But when we're watching a very dark or atmospheric show, or something she's really into she'll even request to use the "little light on the back of the TV."

Wow.

That's all I had time for.

I went home from work with my new VP150 for a 30 minute break. 10 minutes hooking it up. Just tuned my receiver's speaker EQ flat, and didn't bother to level match. Just wanted to get something coming out of it. Listened to parts of each track on Bjork's Vespertine DVD-A (my usual reference).

I had been complaining about how Bjork's vocals sounded. Wondering why she'd choose to use such a dull, muted sounding mic. Oops, sorry about that Bjork, it was my old center channel. Now I don't think she's using a mic at all, but standing in my living room.

Well, back at work. Can't wait to go home, get the heights of my component shelves adjusted (the VP150 is a tiny bit taller than my old Sony), and then level match, and see what the receiver wants to do to room EQ this speaker. But I have feeling I'm going to disable the EQ on this channel.

Great!

Hee hee, I just had the baritone soloist on Estuans Interius (Burning Inside) from Carmina Burana (DVD-Audio), which is entirely in the center channel with vary little musical accompaniment, hitting between 97 and 100 dB. That's the clearest I've ever heard that track. My receiver didn't even break a sweat, despite the slightly less breathing room from moving the shelf above it down (still open on all sides, so it's not a big deal).

Nothing better than exceeding your customers expectations eh!

I updated my signature last Tuesday, and no one noticed. But I was waiting to post until after they arrived.

I got a pair of M22s today! (Well, yesterday!)

I've listened to them for about 10 hours (two hour break to go get sushi for my birthday).

The first thing I noticed that the clicks when navigating around the PS3's XMB sounded more like some physical object clicking, rather than the over-hung, echoey response I was getting from my 15 year old Sonys.

The M22s are definitely sharper sounding then the Sonys to which I've grown so accustom. But only after a few hours my ears had broken in, and they sound very natural. The Sony speakers were floor standing models with dual 6.5" woofers and a tweeter (think M50s). So I knew the M22s wouldn't have the bass response, but as long as they could reach 80 Hz, the sub can take over from there. They seem to do so fine (must do some frequency sweeps to see how the transition sounds).

After listening to a LOT of Bjork, and getting my fill of sushi, I put on Resident Evil: Afterlife for friends. The M22s sit on top of my subs, on top of SubDudes (the combination stands a fraction of an inch of the height of the old speakers). The subs used to be closer to the center of my room, between the Sonys and the TV stand, but now I moved them out to where the Sonys were before. Wow, so much more punch from the subs with them there, and I was able to preserve the sound stage that I had with my old floor standers too. Actually, not just preserve, but pans across the front are completely seamless between the M22s and the VP150. I can't tell where one speaker stops and the next one starts.

I paid $350 for the pair of Sonys back in the day, and the $488, does seem like a 40% improvement. So that's value for the money. I had planned on only testing these M22s, and then sending them back if I didn't like them, or upgrading to the piano black finish after a week or two if I continued to like them. That's the down side in this review. While I feel they are definitely worth $500, they are not $900 speakers in my mind. So standard black they stay.

I'll take the upgrade money and get another pair of QS8s.

Congrats on the M22s. I'm only using one as a center channel, but I would love to try a pair out as the mains in a system. I do think I would prefer them to the M3s, even though I'm happy with the M3s where they are.

Keep the upgrades going!

Very good, Chris; enjoy.

I am glad you like them Chris. Congratulations!

If one pair sounds good, think how 2 pair must sound. Click on my signature link.

Congratulations on the new toys.

I have heard M22's and $1000 bookshelf speakers, the M22's hold there own and could easily be considered of the same SQ as $1000 speakers but why spend the extra money if you don't have to just for the pretty wrapper?

I got a ButtKicker today, after a two month wait, and a canceled order at Amazon. Got it directly from Guitammer, and that's probably a good thing because the amp keeps going into thermal protect. I've e-mailed their support address, but probably won't hear from them until Monday.

Still getting things dialed in, which is hard to do when the amp cuts off after an hour. But first impressions are good, and it should only be better once I get it mounted directly to my couch, rather than having it sitting on the pad.