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#247107 - 02/15/09 09:55 PM Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#247110 - 02/15/09 10:05 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6609
Loc: It's all about the location.
Only $4000.00 US, I'll take two of them.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#247111 - 02/15/09 10:06 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Thanks for the link. I'm not sure I'd be a customer at that price point, but the more competition, the better.

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#247114 - 02/15/09 10:12 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
merchman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 834
Loc: WI
Let me know when you get it Randy. I'll make the trip to DesMoines and bring the Natty Lites.
_________________________
M80's(2), VP150, QS8's(2), M3's(4)

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#247115 - 02/15/09 10:14 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: merchman]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Maybe JohnK has read up on it and can give some insight.

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#247117 - 02/15/09 10:24 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: CV]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
"Every THX™ certified movie theater is required to be equalized and recalibrated regularly. Your home theater deserves the same care."

Sounds great.

MSRP $3,995 USD

Not *that* great.

\:\)
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#247118 - 02/15/09 10:27 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: RickF]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Yeah, especially since I already think my home theater sounds better than the local THX-certified theaters.

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#247120 - 02/15/09 10:37 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10379
Possibly so Randy, but rather expensive for what appears to be from the brief info on the site(including "technology")a 30 band graphic equalizer. This would be a less advanced approach than Audyssey and far less advanced than Trinnov(if it actually becomes available and fully functional in the SN972).
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#247121 - 02/15/09 10:43 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: CV]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Speaking of 'THX-certified'... I can't remember what movie I was watching a little while back, 'Nemo' maybe? It had, and I used the 'THX' calibration setup in the menu and I noticed the bass was way louder on their setup than any other setup or test tones that I've used in the past, so much so that I thought it was actually annoying used on any other material.

Anybody else ever notice that?
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#247126 - 02/15/09 11:07 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: RickF]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
Here are the specs from The Shack review, appears to be a new product and those that have both Audyssey and NeptuneEQ say Audyssey is not in the same league.

The neptuneEQ™ is the result of more than 10 years of product development. It is a sophisticated product, made possible only by the most recent DSP technology. The neptuneEQ™ corrects for acoustical problems created by the room, furniture and speakers in a 7.1 channel or less home theater system, and has both RCA and XLR connectors.

The neptuneEQ™ performs Equalization by the use of graphic EQ techniques. It utilizes thirty 1/3 octave bands for each of the 7 full range channels (just like a professional movie theater), and twenty bands for the subwoofer channel; all sampled at 96 kHz, 24 bits. We use four top of the line stereo codecs (the part that converts the audio to digital and back) from Cirrus logic®, instead of a single, less expensive surround sound codec. The neptuneEQ™ is expressly designed for discerning high end home theater use, where no compromises are made in the design and application.

Features:

Fully automatic room equalization within 4 minutes
Balanced and Unbalanced inputs and outputs
System comes complete including calibrated microphone. No other test equipment is needed
Digitally created, 100% repeatable pseudo random signal for optimum room measurement
Easy to use; no special education or certification needed
Separate analog and digital power supplies for maximum isolation
Front panel vacuum fluorescent graphic display
ISO standard thirty 1/3 octave bands per each full range channel / twenty bands for subwoofer channel
Measures listening area in 5 places
Automatically adjusts delays and levels
Automatically sets subwoofer crossover including phase
24 bit 96 KHz digital bitstream
Robust steel chassis and aluminum front panel
Removable IEC power cord
120 / 240 Volt operation
In a nutshell, the neptuneEQ™ will output a test signal, then listen for the response using an external microphone (supplied.) Then, it will calculate the best fit for several mic positions and adjust the graphic EQ filters, Delays, Crossover, and more.

In some detail, measuring the room requires the use of test signals. In general there are three basic test signals that can be used. These are: sine wave, impulse, or noise


Sine wave:
A sine wave measurement is simply a sequence of pure tones which are stepped over the frequency response of the system (typically 20 Hz to 20 kHz) at a constant strength. A microphone measures the signal at the sitting position and the processor determines the signal strength of each band. This is a very simple approach but has the problem of reflections causing cancellations and reinforcements at the specific frequencies which greatly reduce the accuracy of the measurements. Further, the time it takes to output and then listen to each frequency is prohibitive.



Impulse:
The impulse (or ping) method is done by generating a pulse with a very fast rise time and a very short duration. The shape of this pulse is altered by the audio system and room acoustics. It is measured and recorded, and then it is analyzed to determine the characteristics of the audio system. This is theoretically straightforward but has the practical difficulty that when using signals low enough not to cause audio system distortion, obtaining enough energy over the entire frequency range to get accurate measurements is difficult.



Noise:
Of the three signals, noise is the closest in character to movie sound. Pseudo random noise (or p/n)is generated digitally and is seeded to cause it to be exactly the same every time; therefore it is a knownsource, unlike true random noise. It allows the best measurement because noise can provide a large enough signal for quality measurements without distorting the audio system and it is much less susceptible to incidental reflections than a sine wave, since there are no discrete tones. This is the signal we have chosen to implement in the neptuneEQ™.


Automatic EQ
The neptuneEQ™ comes standard with a calibrated microphone and stand. The mic is plugged into the front panel and is placed in the first listening position. The processor in the neptuneEQ™ generates the test signals, sends them through all of the channels in turn, automatically adjusts the proper level for the audio system and makes the first round of measurements. Then the mic is then moved and the measurements are repeated four more times for a total of five listening positions. The EQ’s processor then automatically determines the necessary corrections (EQ, balance, delay and crossover) for each channel, and applies them. No external computer is needed. This entire process takes approximately 4 minutes. The user can easily do this job and needs no special training or equipment, thus avoiding an expensive service call. The corrections are held in the EQ’s memory permanently until a remeasurement is needed such as a change in furniture, decor or audio component.

Finally, your system sounds right!
The processor in the neptuneEQ™ automatically calculates the corrections needed to remove the room's effects. It does so by determining how to condition the signals so that they arrive at the listening position sounding like the moviemaker intended. No additional input is needed to make these corrections. In addition to this, there are user preference presets and adjustments to tailor the sound to your preferences; thus giving you the ultimate control of your sound system.

Specifications

Audio Inputs:
8 Analog input channels accommodating: Center, Left and right front, Left and Right Surround, Left and Right rear and Sub channels
XLR and RCA connectors all channels
Input impedance: 10 k Ohms unbalanced 20k balanced
Input sensitivity: 1.0 Volt rms for full output
Microphone input connector 3.5 mm jack
Audio Outputs:
8 Analog output channels accommodating Center, Left and Right main, Left and Right surround, Left and Right rear and Sub channel
XLR and RCA connectors all channels
Input impedance: 10 k Ohms unbalanced 20k balanced
Output impedance: 560 Ohms unbalanced 1120 Ohms balanced
Output level max (all channels) Selectable 1.0, 1.4, 2.0, 2.8 Volts rms
Performance:
Frequency response: 10 Hz to 20 kHz +/- 0.3 dB
Distortion: Less than .0028%
Dynamic range: 105 dB
Signal to Noise ratio: 109 dB "A" weighted
Crosstalk -100.5 dB at 1kHz any channel to any other channel
General:
Analog to digital conversion: 24 bit 96 kHz sampling frequency all channels
Digital to analog conversion: 24 bit 96 kHz sampling frequency all channels
Bands per channel: 30 for each of seven full range channels, 20 for one sub channel
Digital Processing: 32 bit 50 mflops / sec.
Power requirements: 120V/240V 50/60 Hz +/- 20 % universal line cord
Operating temperature range: 0 C to +45 C (32 F to 113F)
Relative Humidity: 91% max
H. W. D. 3.5"x17"x9"
Weight 11 Lbs, 4.5 Oz
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#247142 - 02/16/09 01:01 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA

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#247143 - 02/16/09 01:02 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Seriously, everyone enter the contest. It would be great if one of us won it and could review it. Ha ha.

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#247158 - 02/16/09 06:02 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10856
Loc: Central NH
I already have an Alesis EQ with 30 bands for channel that's been sitting unused for 3 years...


_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#247182 - 02/16/09 10:12 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
That Alesis is the right idea, keep analog, analog and keep digital, digital. (My bedroom studio is full of Alesis gear.) It just seems messy to me to take the analog output of a pre/pro, run it through a ADC, process it (although it is easier to design a parametric EQ in the digital domain rather than with analog filters), then run it back through a DAC before passing it on to the amp.

What we need is an "audio scaler", something which takes up to 7.1 over an HDMI connection (perhaps even bitstreams), performs the room correction and then passes the lip-synched, processed audio and video on to the receiver/processor as LPCM.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#247187 - 02/16/09 10:29 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: ClubNeon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Great idea, but how much you think that would cost? Then again, it should not be that hard. In my car my Alpine head unit has a very solid P-EQ, crossover, and delay suite that works in the digital domain before hitting the DACs. That unit is under $600. Perhaps a company that already has all the HDMI licenses and know how could drop that simple chip in - Nah, that would be too easy.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#254315 - 03/29/09 10:29 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: Zimm]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Here's a review of the Neptune:

NEPTUNE AUDIO neptuneEQ Reviewed

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#254324 - 03/29/09 10:46 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: CV]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
Sounds like a good unit except for the 1/3 octave eq method they chose.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#254335 - 03/29/09 11:37 PM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: fredk]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
plus, isn't it pretty pricey?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#254352 - 03/30/09 12:20 AM Re: Some competition for Audyssey and Trinnov? [Re: SirQuack]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11171
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Yeah, it's definitely more than I'd pay... without overwhelmingly positive reviews across the board, and even then, the money may be better spent on improving the acoustics of the room rather than trying to compensate for them with software.

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